F2P Mage and range underpowered

[compfreak847]

If I spam "it was for quel" in all caps 40 times, is that enough? :roll:

 

Once in lowercase would do, but I appreciate the effort.

[howbadisbad]

this thread got ownt faster than mine :twss:

[quelmotz]

f2p does not need anymore updates. you get to not be able to use mage in combat at high levels because you do not pay to play :D

 

 

 

EDIT: i would go pking in f2p if they had addie cbows lmao.

 

 

 

Yeah? Jagex clearly stated that f2p deserves updates and f2p is not just a demo version of the game. P2P gets enough updates per month. Wow I had to state this 2-3 times. This is a balancing update of the triangle, that won't benefit f2p mage so greatly that all p2p mages just go and play f2p. Jagex seeks to attract f2p players to subscribe to p2p, and the best way is to entice them with incomplete spellbooks/armor types/etc so they will want to get p2p.

 

 

 

Honestly, these snobby and selfish p2p players makes me sick. How the hell does the $5 you pay give you an opinion in what Jagex should update? You think they care about your freaking $5? Leave if you want, and I gurantee you, more people will surely take your place and Jagex will earn more.

 

 

 

P.S. You blame f2p for lousy grammar and spelling in spam threads while you can't even spend some time improving yours.

 

 

 

Lol wut? When have I ever blamed F2P for bad spelling?The general of members.

 

 

 

The usual marketing BS. FTP is a big hole into which Jagex pours money, in hopes that enough members will come crawling out to make up for it. They're a business, not a non-profit organization. Like most businesses, they concentrate on earning money so they can improve the game for their paying customers. Every dollar they spend on FTP is a dollar less for PTP - they will rarely deprive the group generating a profit just so the freeloaders get a better game.

 

 

 

In short, the more updates F2P gets, the less likely F2Pers will go P2P, proving your argument, wrong. :shame:You know what? The less updates f2p gets, the faster they will get bored and NOT subscribe to p2p. So they should get more updates to a certain extent. I'm not asking Jagex to become a non profit organisation and give everything away to f2p, just to balance out the situation in f2p.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Honestly, these snobby and selfish p2p players makes me sick. How the hell does the $5 you pay give you an opinion in what Jagex should update?

 

 

 

The fact that we pay and you don't gives away alot. #-o

 

Interesting. And how much do you pay? $5. I don't want to waste money, but does that mean we f2pers deserve a lousy game? I don't think so. There are tons of good free games on the internet, and we can always play them. Either you're richer or you are addicted to RS so you feel like forking out $5.

[Veritas94]

Logical fallacy: "In short, the more updates F2P gets, the less likely F2Pers will go P2P, proving your argument, wrong."

 

 

 

The reason F2P goes to P2P is because of a variety of factors, not just continuous updates focused only on P2P. P2P has many facets which attract F2P players (Quest, added trainable skills, armor, training methods, money making methods, monsters, huge map, extensions of F2P skills, minigames, etc.)

 

 

 

In millions of businesses around the world, free samples are offered to consumers to entice them to buy the final product. If the free sample leaves a bitter aftertaste in the consumer's mouth, then it is reasonable to assume that the consumer will not buy the final product.

 

 

 

F2P has been successful to an extent in getting players to switch over to P2P, but by improving the F2P game, Jagex has to pay a set amount of money ONCE in order to fix the issues and draw in even more customers than before. Ultimately, to say that spending money on F2P will yield less revenue for Jagex in the long run is complete nonsense.

[howbadisbad]

Logical fallacy: "In short, the more updates F2P gets, the less likely F2Pers will go P2P, proving your argument, wrong."

 

 

 

The reason F2P goes to P2P is because of a variety of factors, not just continuous updates focused only on P2P. P2P has many facets which attract F2P players (Quest, added trainable skills, armor, training methods, money making methods, monsters, huge map, extensions of F2P skills, minigames, etc.)

 

 

 

In millions of businesses around the world, free samples are offered to consumers to entice them to buy the final product. If the free sample leaves a bitter aftertaste in the consumer's mouth, then it is reasonable to assume that the consumer will not buy the final product.

 

 

 

F2P has been successful to an extent in getting players to switch over to P2P, but by improving the F2P game, Jagex has to pay a set amount of money ONCE in order to fix the issues and draw in even more customers than before. Ultimately, to say that spending money on F2P will yield less revenue for Jagex in the long run is complete nonsense.

 

 

 

If I was F2P and I had to pay $5 for more things that F2P didn't have I would want P2P more because I get more out of my $5. The less I get for my money the less likely i will want to pay. So by giving F2P mass updates that give them lots of things members have, the more likely they will want to stay F2P.

 

 

 

Besides, most people go P2P around level 60-70. The more updates you give (F2P has granite now!) the longer they will stay F2P and the less money you will recive.

 

 

 

Of course there are always the people that since he has (granite) and is a much higher level and has played longer than the people before the updates, will want to go P2P because he has spent so much time on F2P.

 

 

 

It is still mostly " The more you give F2P, the less they will want to go P2P because they have so much stuff members have."

[compfreak847]

Logical fallacy: "In short, the more updates F2P gets, the less likely F2Pers will go P2P, proving your argument, wrong."

 

 

 

The reason F2P goes to P2P is because of a variety of factors, not just continuous updates focused only on P2P. P2P has many facets which attract F2P players (Quest, added trainable skills, armor, training methods, money making methods, monsters, huge map, extensions of F2P skills, minigames, etc.)

 

 

 

In millions of businesses around the world, free samples are offered to consumers to entice them to buy the final product. If the free sample leaves a bitter aftertaste in the consumer's mouth, then it is reasonable to assume that the consumer will not buy the final product.

 

 

 

F2P has been successful to an extent in getting players to switch over to P2P, but by improving the F2P game, Jagex has to pay a set amount of money ONCE in order to fix the issues and draw in even more customers than before. Ultimately, to say that spending money on F2P will yield less revenue for Jagex in the long run is complete nonsense.

 

Exactly my point, and I've restated that many times. Therefore, updates that do not convince people to buy members are a waste of time.

 

 

 

 

Interesting. And how much do you pay? $5. I don't want to waste money, but does that mean we f2pers deserve a lousy game? I don't think so. There are tons of good free games on the internet, and we can always play them. Either you're richer or you are addicted to RS so you feel like forking out $5.

 

Then why don't you leave and go to them? Your costing Jagex money and playing the game on my dime. You don't "deserve" anything, your playing by choice. What you deserve is to have every single player with no intentions of getting members\convincing friends to get permanently IP banned to force them to stop freeloading and taking updates from the people who DO pay their own way. Only the fact that they can't do that stops them from it.

[Veritas94]

And an update to magic in F2P will better the F2P experience for everyone, thus drawing in more customers to P2P. Thanks for agreeing with me, Compfreak.

 

 

 

P.S. I hope you like my sig, Compfreak.

[compfreak847]

And an update to magic in F2P will better the F2P experience for everyone, thus drawing in more customers. Thanks for agreeing with me, Compfreak.

 

And keeping more players FTP, negating the advantages and resources used for the update; hence why it should be, at most, very minorly updated. I'm afraid you misinterpreted my post and drew the erroneous conclusion that I agreed with you; it would be advisable to go back and read my replies again, or ask me to clarify on areas you are uncertain.

 

 

 

 

P.S. I hope you like my sig, Compfreak.

 

It's a nice fictional animation, thankfully we have some intelligent programmers at Jagex that will ensure the current triangle would never become that unbalanced :P

[Veritas94]

Your post didn't make much sense to me. Is the P2P in that sentence supposed to be F2P?

[compfreak847]

Your post didn't make much sense to me. Is the P2P in that sentence supposed to be F2P?

 

Yeah, good call. Fixed now :P

[Veritas94]

Just because you're updating F2P doesn't mean more players will want to remain F2P. There will always continue to be worlds of advantages P2P will have that F2P will never have. Besides, it's not black and white. Some players might decided not to play Runescape at all because they don't like certain elements of the game. Think about the following:

 

 

 

If a player was playing Runescape and Jagex knew FOR CERTAIN he would never be P2P, would they want to kick him because he was taking up space on their servers? No, of course not. Why? Because a player playing Runescape, either F2P OR P2P will be a walking advertisement for the game. They will talk about Runescape with their friends, and their friends in turn might want to play.

 

 

 

P.S. There is nothing unbalanced about the Mage in my sig. :)

[compfreak847]

But he's not going to be better then any other PTP player; FTP players don't stick around anywhere near as long as PTPers (look at the average combat levels), and are much less likely to referr people who would upgrade; most wholehearted, enthusiastic advertisements are going to come from paying members, so FTP advertising isn't as big of an issue as your making it out to be. Additionally, every player who remains on FTP or stays there because of the update is more cost to Jagex with no reward; the addition of players who will remain FTP because they enjoy PKing with high level magic and see members as geared more towards mages. All in all, the idea that it will generate more profit for Jagex is very questionable at best.

 

 

 

P.S. There is nothing unbalanced about the Mage in my sig. :)

 

Given that he's much better and more accurately then the meleer's inaccurate 20s without special effects, it's quite similar to PTP combat where magic overpowers all.

[Veritas94]

But he's not going to be better then any other PTP player; FTP players don't stick around anywhere near as long as PTPers (look at the average combat levels), and are much less likely to referr people who would upgrade; most wholehearted, enthusiastic advertisements are going to come from paying members, so FTP advertising isn't as big of an issue as your making it out to be. Additionally, every player who remains on FTP or stays there because of the update is more cost to Jagex with no reward; the addition of players who will remain FTP because they enjoy PKing with high level magic and see members as geared more towards mages. All in all, the idea that it will generate more profit for Jagex is very questionable at best.

 

 

 

P.S. There is nothing unbalanced about the Mage in my sig. :)

 

Given that he's much better and more accurately then the meleer's inaccurate 20s without special effects, it's quite similar to PTP combat where magic overpowers all.

 

 

 

I'd say the idea is not "questionable at best" at all. There are over 135 Million runescape account, and 15 million active accounts. 1-2 million of those are members and the rest are F2P. 14 Million F2Pers is NOT a questionable advertisement.

 

 

 

P.S. The meleer can hit 27s, not "inaccurate 20s."

 

P.P.S. Lolcorruptdragonscimitar. I don't even know what that can hit.

[compfreak847]

But he's not going to be better then any other PTP player; FTP players don't stick around anywhere near as long as PTPers (look at the average combat levels), and are much less likely to referr people who would upgrade; most wholehearted, enthusiastic advertisements are going to come from paying members, so FTP advertising isn't as big of an issue as your making it out to be. Additionally, every player who remains on FTP or stays there because of the update is more cost to Jagex with no reward; the addition of players who will remain FTP because they enjoy PKing with high level magic and see members as geared more towards mages. All in all, the idea that it will generate more profit for Jagex is very questionable at best.

 

 

 

P.S. There is nothing unbalanced about the Mage in my sig. :)

 

Given that he's much better and more accurately then the meleer's inaccurate 20s without special effects, it's quite similar to PTP combat where magic overpowers all.

 

 

 

I'd say the idea is not "questionable at best" at all. There are over 135 Million runescape account, and 15 million active accounts. 1-2 million of those are members and the rest are F2P. 14 Million F2Pers is NOT a questionable advertisement.

 

That's odd, according to http://www.developmag.com/interviews/20 ... -RuneScape there's only 6.5m active FTP. Where's your source? I'll examine it and see if it's as reliable as you seem to think it is.

 

 

 

Also note that I was referring specifically to playing time; as evidenced by the fact that in the past year, overall PTP play time exceeded FTP play time 57%-42%

 

 

 

 

P.S. The meleer can hit 27s, not "inaccurate 20s."

 

I wasn't aware that 70 strength allowed for 27s with a scimitar, nor did 40 attack allow for accurate hits.

 

P.P.S. Lolcorruptdragonscimitar. I don't even know what that can hit.

 

And at a cost of only several million GP per hour. Very practical, I'm sure PKers make a fortune.

[howbadisbad]

I'd say the idea is not "questionable at best" at all. There are over 135 Million runescape account, and 15 million active accounts. 1-2 million of those are members and the rest are F2P. 14 Million F2Pers is NOT a questionable advertisement.

 

 

 

 

Total BS. The number of active runescape accounts is no where near 15 million. I know for a fact that WoW has around 10 million active accounts and has many more than runescape. A safe estimate for the ammount of active accounts is acctually armound 6 million.

 

 

 

This still does not disprove me and comp's arguments that the closer F2P comes to P2P the less people will go P2P.

 

 

 

P.S. The meleer can hit 27s, not "inaccurate 20s."

 

P.P.S. Lolcorruptdragonscimitar. I don't even know what that can hit.

 

 

 

Lol wut?

 

Rune scimmy blows hard. I can walk around with 60 slash defence (green d hide looooolzzz) and still hit my opponet that is in full rune, with mith arrows, more than he can hit me. He is also a higher level than me btw.

 

 

 

No one pks with corrupt dragon...

 

 

 

EDIT: Compfreak types faster than me -.-

[Veritas94]

"120m accounts registered to date, including 8.5m active accounts/month (5m every fortnight) and around 1m premium subscriptions (paying roughly £3.20/$5 a month) "

 

 

 

This is what you're source says so let's go with that for the sake of argument. 7.5 Million F2pers vs. 1 Million P2Pers.

 

 

 

And so what if PTP players play more on average than F2PErs. Both own ACTIVE accounts. F2P players are both a great advertisement for Runescape and an enormous source of potential revenue. F2P deserves tweaks in the fundamental mechanics of combat(Namely magic), so all of those active F2P players can enjoy the game more.

 

 

 

I don't see where you're taking this, Compfreak.

 

 

 

It's clearly evident, whatever your philosophy about F2P updates is, that Jagex values F2P as a source of revenue and they do things CONTRARY to what you predict they should. After all, they implemented corrupt items into F2P just recently to give players a taste of membership. Yes, Compfreak, you just implied that Jagex does not have a sound sense of finance by claiming that any F2P updates are nonsense, and that's a hilarious thing to say. When you look at how successful Jagex has become, it's fairly clear that they know what the hell they're doing in terms of profits. I'm sure glad you're not at Jagex to give them advice. Runescape might have died a while ago if that happened :(.

 

 

 

Man, I'm really enjoying this conversation.

 

 

 

P.S.

 

"And at a cost of only several million GP per hour. Very practical, I'm sure PKers make a fortune."

 

There is nothing more satisfying than using your own argument against you from our previous lovely thread. Remember what you talked about with not needing the staff of Zuriel for every moment of the fight, and how you could preserve it for weeks on end? Yeah, that argument. The very same applies to Corrupt scims. You only need to take them out when the opponent is low on health. I have many Pker friends who have attested to how long the scims last when used properly. Also, you can protect the corrupt scimitar via prayer, if you were going to use that argument. Corrupt is very powerful in F2P, and magic and ranged were left out, as usual.

 

 

 

P.S.

 

And by the way, that 70 strength argument you keep making is really invalid. We both know that Runescape players don't train only melee or only magic or only ranged. You could have 2 players with identical combat stats using different types of combat. If one were using magic, he'd be at a disadvantage. Then the essence of the argument does not merely come to levels.

[howbadisbad]

P.S.

 

And by the way, that 70 strength argument you keep making is really invalid. We both know that Runescape players don't train only melee or only magic or only ranged.

 

 

 

 

 

wow...

 

 

 

ever heard of pures?

 

 

 

they are all over f2p worlds

 

 

 

This reminds me that more than 1 million of those active accounts are "alts" which are generally pures.

[compfreak847]

"120m accounts registered to date, including 8.5m active accounts/month (5m every fortnight) and around 1m premium subscriptions (paying roughly £3.20/$5 a month) "

 

 

 

This is what you're source says so let's go with that for the sake of argument. 7.5 Million F2pers vs. 1 Million P2Pers.

 

 

 

And so what if PTP players play more on average than F2PErs. Both are own ACTIVE accounts. F2P players are both a great advertisement for Runescape and an enormous source of potential revenue. F2P deserves tweaks in the fundamental mechanics of magic (Namely magic), so all of those active F2P players can enjoy the game more.

 

 

 

I don't see where you're taking this, Compfreak.

 

See above, I responded to all of your points in previous replies including advertising and upgrading.. Please stop repeating your arguments over and over.

 

 

 

 

It's clearly evident, whatever your philosophy about F2P updates is, that Jagex values F2P as a source of revenue and they do things CONTRARY to what you predict they should. After all, they implemented corrupt items into F2P just recently to give players a taste of membership. Yes, Compfreak, you just implied that Jagex does not have a sound sense of finance by claiming that any F2P updates are nonsense, and that's a hilarious thing to say. When you look at how successful Jagex has become, it's fairly clear that they know what the hell they're doing in terms of profits. I'm sure glad you're not at Jagex to give them advice. Runescape might have died a while ago if that happened :(.

 

I hate to break it to you, but both the fact that FTP players cost Jagex money the fact that ANY update that does not increase PTP membership proportionately to FTP is spending members money on freeloaders. No amount of opinions or biased argument can overcome facts from financial records - FTP costs Jagex money, and lots of it.

 

 

 

 

P.S.

 

"And at a cost of only several million GP per hour. Very practical, I'm sure PKers make a fortune."

 

There is nothing more satisfying than using your own argument against you from our lovely previous thread. Remember what you talked about with not needing the staff of Zuriel for every moment of the fight, and how you could preserve it for weeks on end? Yeah, that argument. The very same applies to Corrupt scims. You only need to take them out when the opponent is low on health. I have many Pker friends who have attested to how long the scims last when used properly. Also, you can protect the corrupt scimitar via prayer, if you were going to use that argument. Corrupt is very powerful in F2P, and magic and ranged were left out, as usual.

 

So which of those have to do with active PKing power instead of a single, expensive KO shot? And how does being 8 times the cost of Zuriel's staff for 1 2.2 second hit instead of a 48 second effect not relate to this argument.

 

 

 

 

And by the way, that 70 strength argument you keep making is really invalid. We both know that Runescape players don't train only melee or only magic or only ranged. You could have 2 players with identical combat stats using different types of combat. If one were using magic, he'd be at a disadvantage. Then the essence of the argument does not merely come to levels.

 

And a meleer who happened to have 99 magic with 3 attack and 5 strength would be at a disadvantage against a 99 mage. So by you logic, melee has a max hit of 3 while mage hits 16s #-o

[Veritas94]

 

See above, I responded to all of your points in previous replies including advertising and upgrading.. Please stop repeating your arguments over and over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You responded with an argument for overall play time differences in F2P & P2P. If if I were to question your source about that, what does it matter? If player "x" plays more than player "y," it won't matter, because they can both acknowledge that they've played the game and they can provide their thoughts about it. That's even more of a reason to make F2P better. Jagex needs to make an impression on F2Pers in a shorter about of time, and having broken game mechanics is not the way to make that first positive impression.

 

 

You still haven't responded to the fact that both are valid advertisements for the game.

 

 

 

 

 

I hate to break it to you, but both the fact that FTP players cost Jagex money the fact that ANY update that does not increase PTP membership proportionately to FTP is spending members money on freeloaders. No amount of opinions or biased argument can overcome facts from financial records - FTP costs Jagex money, and lots of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are no biased arguments here. You and Jagex differ fundamentally about F2P updates. They think it's a worthy cause and you do not. Technically, I shouldn't even have to prove anything to you. They have set a precedent for F2P updates and they WILL WILL update F2P again. Mod Mark said that himself. I don't want to argue this point further. If you want, you can debate it with Jagex on the RS forums. If you do, could you give me the QFC code so I can see the chaos that ensues? Thanks :).

 

 

 

 

So which of those have to do with active PKing power instead of a single, expensive KO shot? And how does being 8 times the cost of Zuriel's staff for 1 2.2 second hit instead of a 48 second effect not relate to this argument.

 

 

 

 

Corrupt lends enormous PKing power to melee because of their ability to deliver a disproportionate amount of damage usually not seen in F2P. Try pking in F2P some time and look at the expressions on people's faces when a player KO's them with corrupt gear. It's rather funny and sad at the same time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And a meleer who happened to have 99 magic with 3 attack and 5 strength would be at a disadvantage against a 99 mage. So by you logic, melee has a max hit of 3 while mage hits 16s #-o

 

 

 

Lol, you continue with this. How about a ninja with laser beams shooting out of his eyes?

 

 

 

But really, any combination of levels can meet on the battlefield. Imagine if two players were maxed out, 99 Str/att/def/Hp/Rng/Mge and one of them used magic and the other used Melee. I think we'd know how a high level fight like that would turn out. Their stats don't need to be perfect like that either. High level players will train ranged to a high level, magic to a high level, and melee to a high level, but will generally opt to use Melee and ranged because they are far superior. See what I'm saying?

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

You still haven't responded to the fact that both are valid advertisements for the game.

 

 

But there are so many influences that result in a cost for Jagex and a complete lack of evidence that an update like this would in any way boost their bottom line that a blanket statement saying it's worth doing without any facts is both short sighted and ignorant.

 

 

 

 

There are no biased arguments here. You and Jagex differ fundamentally about F2P updates. They think it's a worthy cause and you do not. Technically, I shouldn't even have to prove anything to you. They have set a precedent for F2P updates and they WILL WILL update F2P again. Mod Mark said that himself. I don't want to argue this point further. If you want, you can debate it with Jagex on the RS forums. If you do, could you give me the QFC code so I can sees the chaos that ensues? Thanks :).

 

 

Since when do you think it's a worthy cause? And I mean real proof, not "a mod said so to make a company look good". News flash: No, the company isn't going to say "we don't give a rats *** about the freeloaders". Anything to make them more money. You will, of course, notice that the point of a for-profit business is to generate profit. If Jagex wanted to make people feel good, they'd offer to donate a percentage of members incomes to a charity of choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Corrupt lends enormous PKing power to melee because of their ability to deliver a disproportionate amount of damage usually not seen in F2P. Try pking in F2P some time and look at the expressions on people's faces when a player KO's them with corrupt gear. It's rather funny and sad at the same time.

 

It also means your melee player will lose over 300k every time he dies to the mage, and quite frequently his scimitar also - mage can drain his prayer and keep him from teleing or running while the mage would lose at most 30 to 40k upon death.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, you continue with this. How about a ninja with laser beams shooting out of his eyes?

 

 

 

But really, any combination of levels can meet on the battlefield. Imagine if two players were maxed out, 99 Str/att/def/Hp/Rng/Mge and one of them used magic and the other used Melee. I think we'd know how a high level fight like that would turn out. Their stats don't need to be perfect like that either. High level players will train ranged to a high level, magic to a high level, and ranged to a high level, but will generally opt to use Melee and ranged because they are far superior. See what I'm saying?

 

Not at all, especally given that magic is far superior for its level. Your trying to pretend that a level 59 spell is going to compare to maxed melee, but balking at the prospect of a maxed mage competing against a level 59 meleer. Sorry, but people use whatever combat style is superior for their stats. You won't see a maxed meleer trying to complain that range is inferior because his 59 range doesn't compared to maxed melee :roll:

[Veritas94]

 

 

 

But there are so many influences that result in a cost for Jagex and a complete lack of evidence that an update like this would in any way boost their bottom line that a blanket statement saying it's worth doing without any facts is both short sighted and ignorant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is not a complete lack of evidence. Why would they have the F2P game there in the first place? I guess Jagex will one day say, "Hey guys, we're complete idiots. Let's scrap F2P altogether and make Runescape only P2P based." I'm sure that will make them a bunch of profit. Jagex took the time to make F2P Runescape for a reason. From a business perspective, it's to provide a glimpse at game and entice the players to play P2P. It may seem like I'm repeating myself, but look:

 

 

 

You have no idea how much it would cost Jagex to give F2P the snare spell, let's say. I'm certain you don't know because the cost of each update is #1. Probably not accounted for in the company (Maybe it is, who knows?) #2. Not released to the public.

 

 

 

I think it is YOU making blanket statements about the monumental wealth Jagex would lose if they give F2P a few simple updates. Puh-lease.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since when do you think it's a worthy cause? And I mean real proof, not "a mod said so to make a company look good". News flash: No, the company isn't going to say "we don't give a rats *** about the freeloaders". Anything to make them more money. You will, of course, notice that the point of a for-profit business is to generate profit. If Jagex wanted to make people feel good, they'd offer to donate a percentage of members incomes to a charity of choice.

 

 

 

 

If a letter from the Jagex CEO which explains in logical terms why F2P should be updated is not sufficient proof for the company's intentions, then I don't know what is.

 

 

 

I guess they were simply putting that letter up to appease the little whiners of F2P; No one will notice after 1 year that F2P has not received any changes and everyone will remain as calm and complacent as a lamb, right Compfreak? They'll just sit there, I assume.

 

 

 

But really, why would Jagex intentionally put up a letter about making changes to the F2P game and then go back on their word, DO NOTHING, and then have a huge number of disappointed F2Pers on their hands who call them liars and quit the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It also means your melee player will lose over 300k every time he dies to the mage, and quite frequently his scimitar also - mage can drain his prayer and keep him from teleing or running while the mage would lose at most 30 to 40k upon death.

 

 

 

 

Dies to the mage? Hahaha, that's very funny. A tear rolled down my cheek. :D

 

 

 

And lol at mages draining prayer. It's not like the meleer can wait until the last minute to turn on his prayer if some superbadass mage with mystical powers unknown to F2P comes and fights him.

 

 

 

 

Not at all, especally given that magic is far superior for its level. Your trying to pretend that a level 59 spell is going to compare to maxed melee, but balking at the prospect of a maxed mage competing against a level 59 meleer. Sorry, but people use whatever combat style is superior for their stats. You won't see a maxed meleer trying to complain that range is inferior because his 59 range doesn't compared to maxed melee :roll:

 

 

 

A meleer with 85 strength and attack and 99 magic will prefer to use the melee because the magic is so weak at higher levels, which this is all about. At lower levels magic may be powerful, and it should be toned down at those lower levels, but at higher levels it needs some major changes.

[compfreak847]

 

There is not a complete lack of evidence. Why would they have the F2P game there in the first place? I guess Jagex will one day say, "Hey guys, we're complete idiots. Let's scrap F2P altogether and make Runescape only P2P based." I'm sure that will make them a bunch of profit. Jagex took the time to make F2P Runescape for a reason. From a business perspective, it's to provide a glimpse at game and entice the players to play P2P. It may seem like I'm repeating myself, but look:

 

 

 

You have no idea how much it would cost Jagex to give F2P the snare spell, let's say. I'm certain you don't know because the cost of each update is #1. Probably not accounted for in the company (Maybe it is, who knows?) #2. Not released to the public.

 

Do you recall where I said FTP was losing them money? Good, 'cause neither was I. I think you missed my entire point, as I will address shortly:

 

 

 

 

I think it is YOU making blanket statements about the monumental wealth Jagex would lose if they give F2P a few simple updates. Puh-lease.

 

Yeah, I don't recall saying that either. Could you explain how it relates my point, namely Jagex, as a business, not releasing an update because it doesn't generate money for them?

 

 

 

 

If a letter from the Jagex CEO which explains in logical terms why F2P should be updated is not sufficient proof for the company's intentions, then I don't know what is.

 

Oh, I dunno... Perhaps something called "financial records" might help you understand?

 

 

 

 

I guess they were simply putting that letter up to appease the little whiners of F2P; No one will notice after 1 year that F2P has not received any changes and everyone will remain as calm and complacent as a lamb, right Compfreak? They'll just sit there, I assume.

 

 

 

But really, why would Jagex intentionally put up a letter about making changes to the F2P game and then go back on their word, DO NOTHING, and then have a huge number of disappointed F2Pers on their hands who call them liars and quit the game.

 

They've already done quite a bit, all carefully designed to lure in members. The forum update is questionable, as I mentioned in one of my posts, but it certainly doesn't indicate they will start releasing updates willy-nilly that they know will lose them money.

 

 

 

 

Dies to the mage? Hahaha, that's very funny. A tear rolled down my cheek. :D

 

Lamenting the inferirority of melee isn't really something you need to post.

 

And lol at mages draining prayer. It's not like the meleer can wait until the last minute to turn on his prayer if some superbadass mage with mystical powers unknown to F2P comes and fights him.

 

 

Or he could just leave protect item on the whole time like everyone else who PKs and realizes that the chances of him missing the prayer due to a lucky KO are far too large.

 

 

 

 

A meleer with 85 strength and attack and 99 magic will prefer to use the melee because the magic is so weak at higher levels, which this is all about. At lower levels magic may be powerful, and it should be toned down at those lower levels, but at higher levels it needs some major changes.

 

No, he'll use magic because he will have 25 attack and the mithril scimitar is woefully underpowered compared to fire blast.

[Veritas94]

The comment you made about the mithril scimitar makes no sense at all. I've tried and failed time and again to use logic to show you that high level magic combat is broken. I think it's time to break out the "L0ls, ur wrong 1m r1ght, h4h4h4h4hh4!" How can you possibly think that mages, with their god awful binds and low damage will stay out of reach of a meleer who can hit absurd damage. You continue saying nonsensical things like "Oh you cant compare 99 magic with a maxed meleer b/c the two would never meet." That's not true. They can and do meet because everyone makes choices about what type of combat style they use, regardless of their levels. Two maxed players are direct proof that a 99 mager can meet a maxed meleer because the mager could have trained melee, as well, but he chooses to use his magic skill. It blows my mind that you cannot understand that this could happen.

 

 

 

Could you explain how it relates my point, namely Jagex, as a business, not releasing an update because it doesn't generate money for them?

 

 

 

 

I can't believe after all this discussion you still don't see that updates to F2P generates money for them. [b]Again, it comes down to you not believing what they said in their letter on the front page.[/b] According to them, F2P updates will provide them with more P2P clients. This I will not debate further since your great mistrust of business blinds you to the fact that Jagex may actually be honest and open about how they do business. They may be telling the truth in that letter of theirs, but you choose not to believe it. I can't MAKE you believe they are honest. That is your personal belief based on experience, something I can't change by saying anything. It makes no sense for me to try to argue this further with you.

 

 

 

 

They've already done quite a bit, all carefully designed to lure in members. The forum update is questionable, as I mentioned in one of my posts, but it certainly doesn't indicate they will start releasing updates willy-nilly that they know will lose them money.

 

 

 

That they've done quite a bit is debatable. Very debatable. Considering they've barely touched the actual free-game like they said they would, I'd say that they will continue updating F2P. If F2P does get updated more, then I will be a jerk and laugh in your face. That's just me though, and I will be laughing only because it seems so plain and obvious at this point. Let's let time decide this question for us, eh?

 

 

 

 

Or he could just leave protect item on the whole time like everyone else who PKs and realizes that the chances of him missing the prayer due to a lucky KO are far too large.

 

 

 

You really love to lump Runescape players into the "they're all idiots who can't play RS well" category. An experienced pker won't make such an elementary prayer mistake, especially when wearing items of value.

[compfreak847]

 

The comment you made about the mithril scimitar makes no sense at all. I've tried and failed time and again to use logic to show you that high level magic combat is broken. I think it's time to break out the "L0ls, ur wrong 1m r1ght, h4h4h4h4hh4!" How can you possibly think that mages, with their god awful binds and low damage will stay out of reach of a meleer who can hit absurd damage. You continue saying nonsensical things like "Oh you cant compare 99 magic with a maxed meleer b/c the two would never meet." That's not true. They can and do meet because everyone makes choices about what type of combat style they use, regardless of their levels. Two maxed players are direct proof that a 99 mager can meet a maxed meleer because the mager could have trained melee, as well, but he chooses to use his magic skill. It blows my mind that you cannot understand that this could happen.

 

You have completely ignored my posts. Your trying to argue that because a mage loses to a meleer twice his combat level, magic is underpowered. Sorry, but only the levels that affect your combat count.

 

 

 

 

I can't believe after all this discussion you still don't see that updates to F2P generates money for them. Again, it comes down to you not believing what they said in their letter on the front page. According to them, F2P updates will provide them with more P2P clients. This I will not debate further since your great mistrust of business blinds you to the fact that Jagex may actually be honest and open about how they do business. They may be telling the truth in that letter of theirs, but you choose not to believe it. I can't MAKE you believe they are honest. That is your personal belief based on experience, something I can't change by saying anything. It makes no sense for me to try to argue this further with you.

 

No, you can't, because being honest not only violates their financial statements (which would land them in a lot more trouble then an upbeat press release), violates business practices, and would qualify them for tax breaks as a not-for-profit business (Jagex.com clearly states they have the goal of earning money).

 

 

 

 

That they've done quite a bit is debatable. Very debatable. Considering they've barely touched the actual free-game like they said they would, I'd say that they will continue updating F2P. If F2P does get updated more, then I will be a jerk and laugh in your face. That's just me though, and I will be laughing only because it seems so plain and obvious at this point. Let's let time decide this question for us, eh?

 

 

And I will calmly point out how that update results in more members. It's quite obvious from that past 8 years or so that Jagex's goal isn't to redistribute the wealth of its PTP members to FTP members.

 

 

 

 

You really love to lump Runescape players into the "they're all idiots who can't play RS well" category. An experienced pker won't make such an elementary prayer mistake, especially when wearing items of value.

 

Exactly my point, which verifies my previous point of the risk of prayer running out. Thanks for noticing.

[quelmotz]

Will you two just cut it out? If f2p mage is underpowered, who would want it to be that way? And don't tell me "you don't pay so you don't get updates". As Elusefelier has already mentioned, updates that balance out f2p mage will attract more f2pers to use mage. And if we give mage an incomplete spellbook or a spellbook that has a lot of attractive spells but the powerful ones are all members, f2p mages WILL think about subscribing to p2p, because of the dangerous/powerful spells/nice equipment/etc. Jagex should have more advertisements like giving some information on certain spells, for example "fire blitz max damage 30, a very accurate and deadly spell used for roasting opponents" or something along the lines of that. This will entice f2pers into subscribing for p2p.

 

If f2p was just a boring game (like it is now), many f2pers will not think about subscribing for p2p as they are too bored about f2p. By the time a f2p player reaches lvl 60-70, for example, they probably wouldn't want to play f2p anymore due to the severe lack of f2p updates. However, they might not want to get p2p yet due to their levels not being high enough or whatever other reason. They might also think it is wasteful of money to train easy to train skills in p2p, and continue to play f2p. Therefore, they do not subscribe to p2p yet. And if they have nothing else that is remotely interesting in f2p, they will quit RS, making Jagex lose a customer with a VERY HIGH POTENTIAL of subscribing to p2p.

 

And for god's sake, compfreak and howbadisbad, Jagex themselves mentioned that

 

F2P IS NOT A DEMO!!

 

F2p is an independent game, and p2p is more like a huge expansion pack. Therefore, f2p deserves updates, but I am not begging Jagex to update f2p like once fortnightly or whatever. An update, however small, to f2p once every two months or so would be more than enough. And huge updates can take half a year for all I care. I just want good and sensible updates to balance out f2p mage. What is wrong with that, I ask. And please don't skim over the whole thing. I know its long, it looks like a huge wall of text, and seems boring, but READ BEFORE YOU REPLY.