Different kinds of mage weapons

[compfreak847]

 

So, let us take what is said here, and apply it to the OP -

 

In F2P, mage only has 1 type of staff, and 2 types of spell (fire blast, teleblock. Bind is too worthless to even waste nats on). If there was another weapon that was introduced for both F2P and P2P, that wasn't as strong as your Zuriel's staff, wasn't as strong as the other awesome staffs that you use, BUT the level requirements were different, would it still be used?

 

Yes, it would, in F2P, and maybe lower leveled mages in P2P.

 

Fire blast: 59 magic. Miasmic Rush: 61 magic. Are you aiming for that level gap between 59 and 61? That takes less then an hour to train, and a few hours of PKing will push you over it. What a waste of Jagex's development time :roll:

 

 

 

 

I suggest you create a new account, get it's combat level to 65 (85 mage, 60 HP, 15 def, 45 prayer), and then try to PK with it in F2P worlds. Hint: You'll get piled by everyone, your pathetic F2P combat robes won't help you fend off melee, and you'll be broke from lousy drops even if you do manage to kill people.

 

Why on earth would I do that? I already have plenty of good mages with REAL stats, namely 60 mage (really? 85 magic?), 1 defence (what robes am I aiming for, again?) and 1 prayer (I certainly don't need that +15% accuracy, the poor 36-36 meleers I'm fighting will be too busy eating to notice splashes)

 

 

 

I also wasn't aware that one could be piled in single way combat, and all of the good PK areas are relatively uncrowded. Unless melee has a superpower long distance piling attack that works in single way, I'm not going to lose any sleep over this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You could also try to PK with another level 100 account, make a mage tank in P2P. You'll have a much better chance of getting PJed than if you were a level 135+ -because there are more people in your combat range who are willing to take you on. But you wouldn't know that because you PK with your maxed account, in areas that aren't highly trafficked (1 person at a time?).

 

 

Please. I maxed out magic long before melee, and I was 94 magic at 106 combat, and a pretty dang good PKer then. Of course, how would you know? How many level maxed mage tanks have you PKed with in PTP? Oh wait, zero.

 

 

 

 

I'm saying you do not understand why magic needs to be updated so badly for F2P. You don't deal with PJing, you don't deal with lousy bonuses and lousier spells. Unfortunately, the OP deals with BOTH F2P and P2P mage, and when you say "Magic needs to be nerfed before it can receive an update" reflects the fact that all you're thinking about is new high level content that is stronger than what there currently is. It doesn't have to be a higher level, it doesn't have to be stronger - it can be different.

 

PJing, what? Like I said, there's not enough people around to PJ.

 

 

 

Since you seem to have a hard time with reading comprehension, I can repeat my points again so you can remember to argue against them:

 

 

 

PTP Magic is overpowered, able to take down any other combat style, and needs a drastic nerf before even thinking about updating it.

 

FTP magic is vastly overpowered until it maxes out at level 60, and could use higher level spells and a major nerf of the low level ones.

[sees_all1]

 

I also wasn't aware that one could be piled in single way combat, and all of the good PK areas are relatively uncrowded. Unless melee has a superpower long distance piling attack that works in single way, I'm not going to lose any sleep over this.

 

There are two people by you, A and B. You hit A all you want, but as soon as B steps in and "PJs", you can't hit A. You can hit B all you want, but as soon as A steps in, you can't hit B.

 

Never had that happen to you? Its a major problem in F2P, even with low level mages.

 

Glad I could clear that up.

 

 

 

Oh, and in F2P PVP - the world is a small percentage of the size of members, yet they still cram in ~1800 people in there. There are no perfect mage spots in F2P, and what I described is a common occurrence.

[compfreak847]

 

There are two people by you, A and B. You hit A all you want, but as soon as B steps in and "PJs", you can't hit A. You can hit B all you want, but as soon as A steps in, you can't hit B.

 

Never had that happen to you? Its a major problem in F2P, even with low level mages.

 

Glad I could clear that up.

 

Oh. I didn't realize this was a problem specific to mage. What effect is it that prevents melee and range from this horrific circumstance?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and in F2P PVP - the world is a small percentage of the size of members, yet they still cram in ~1800 people in there. There are no perfect mage spots in F2P, and what I described is a common occurrence.

 

Not at all. I deep wildy PK in FTP all the time, and it's not like I can't see the ground for PKers. I'd advise going out and scouting the area, around Port Sarim and Moss Giants tend to be less then crowded.

[Zaaps1]

All the points you guys bring up are interesting and all, but I'm wondering if you really need to throw an insult in every other sentence. I'm not trying to be a wanna-be mod here, but I really think that both of you need to let it off and talk without attacking each other. As someone reading this topic and all the posts in it, all of the flaming is getting really annoying. Have either of you noticed that this entire fourth page is almost entirely you two arguing with each other? You're bringing up good points, but as I said before, is the flame necessary?

 

 

 

[hide=A few side notes for Compfreak]In all due respect, do you really have to be a high level p2p to talk about p2p being overpowered? I was f2p for over half my playing career, and, if I do say so myself, I was very knowledgeable about the members world. More so than most members maybe. (Being f2p, you have that sort of time.) I'm not going to say I knew everything, since I obviously lacked the experience, but I knew a lot of what I needed to know. When I did become a member, it was almost like I was familiar with the world already.

 

 

 

Do you need to be a Senator to discuss the American Economy? Do you have to be the British Prime Minister to be able to talk about world affairs? No, because their decisions affect everybody. Everybody has the right to learn, know, and discuss about those issues. I don't think you need to be p2p to talk about p2p mage. I don't think you need to be a high level to talk about high level benefits. It's EVERYBODY's game, so everybody has the right to learn, know, and discuss about these issues.

 

 

 

My feeling is that one does not need to be in the elite to talk about the elite.

 

 

 

Compfreak, you are a very knowledgeable person and have an extremely admirable account. I respect your knowledge and all you have to say. On a large part, I agree with what you say and I support your evidence. But on this note, I think you have it wrong. A low level f2p'er, as long as he or she is well-informed, has just as much right to talk about high level p2p benefits as anyone else.[/hide]

[compfreak847]

Good point about flames. I tend to get sarcastic when I'm debating :-#

 

 

 

As for knowledge, I disagree with you. This isn't something you can look at max hits and go 'this spell does this'. We're not discussing numbers, we're discussing strategies - avoiding PJers, casting combos, dodging obstacles. The economy and world affairs is something everyone has access to; high level PTP spells isn't something FTPers have access to. Blind man picking color schemes is my best analogy for the situation.

[sees_all1]

 

There are two people by you, A and B. You hit A all you want, but as soon as B steps in and "PJs", you can't hit A. You can hit B all you want, but as soon as A steps in, you can't hit B.

 

Never had that happen to you? Its a major problem in F2P, even with low level mages.

 

Glad I could clear that up.

 

Oh. I didn't realize this was a problem specific to mage. What effect is it that prevents melee and range from this horrific circumstance?

 

Nothing really, except usually its when the player takes off and you're chasing after them. You know how mage is, where they stop, cast the spell, lag a little, and catch back up? Its very easy for a melee to tag onto the mage, and prevent them from running.

 

I would point you to F2P Bounty Hunter, but its closed. You'd get instances where someone with no armour, nothing, would run into the crator. Then all the high levels would chase after them - if someone was chasing and hitting at the same time, usually another person would try to "steal" the kill by first hitting the chaser, binding the runner, and then hitting the runner.

 

 

 

I've found that Range doesn't have this as much, maybe its because people don't seem to care about rangers, or in F2P a maxed tank in full rune can't be touched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not at all. I deep wildy PK in FTP all the time, and it's not like I can't see the ground for PKers. I'd advise going out and scouting the area, around Port Sarim and Moss Giants tend to be less then crowded.

 

Problem is that when you want a kill, you want a kill. I don't want to spend 30 minutes waiting for someone in the deep wilderness, chances are no one is going to come anyway. It leaves (in my estimate) 75% of the players stretched between Varrock and Lumbridge, with the other 10% being clans in falador, the barbarian village. Another 10% are the brave few to venture into the wilderness, and even then most of them are by varrock in a thin band between the ditch to the FoG entrance to the Hill Giants.

 

The last bit I didn't account for are the skillers, scattered throughout various Yews, and the people training in Karamja.

 

 

 

 

 

Let me make it clear - I understand if you use a certain set/order of ancient spells in P2P, you'll do well when you're PKing. I also understand that you'll also do better off if you hybrid - surprise is a key element that individual classes alone cannot get you.

 

I'll also be the first to tell you that I'm not a member, and I don't even want to pretend to know everything about member's only content.

 

 

 

I also believe that if you add more magic weapons (not spells, weapons), the variety will make it more interesting, even if all you ever see during PVP are the same magic weapons, which is why I support the basic concept, but not the OP's words.

[compfreak847]

 

Problem is that when you want a kill, you want a kill. I don't want to spend 30 minutes waiting for someone in the deep wilderness, chances are no one is going to come anyway. It leaves (in my estimate) 75% of the players stretched between Varrock and Lumbridge, with the other 10% being clans in falador, the barbarian village. Another 10% are the brave few to venture into the wilderness, and even then most of them are by varrock in a thin band between the ditch to the FoG entrance to the Hill Giants.

 

The last bit I didn't account for are the skillers, scattered throughout various Yews, and the people training in Karamja.

 

Err, what? First you say people are packed in so thick you'll never get a spot to yourself, then you say they're so spread out you don't want to spend 30 minutes looking for a PK. For the record, it's where I PK, and neither of them are true. Plenty of people in wildy, training or PKing training or simply PKing. The chances of getting a kill in a crowded area with any combat style are essentially nil, people just hit a teletab or run.

 

 

 

 

I also believe that if you add more magic weapons (not spells, weapons), the variety will make it more interesting, even if all you ever see during PVP are the same magic weapons, which is why I support the basic concept, but not the OP's words.

 

So make up your mind. Do you want a more powerful spell\staff\effect that further unbalances magic, or a weaker version that will never be used. Once you pick one out I can start pointing out flaws.

[Zaaps1]

As for knowledge, I disagree with you. This isn't something you can look at max hits and go 'this spell does this'. We're not discussing numbers, we're discussing strategies - avoiding PJers, casting combos, dodging obstacles. The economy and world affairs is something everyone has access to; high level PTP spells isn't something FTPers have access to. Blind man picking color schemes is my best analogy for the situation.

 

 

 

I see what your point is.

 

 

 

But the fact remains that a f2p can still be well-informed. Can't a f2p'er access TIF? A f2p'er can be perfectly knowledgeable enough to get the basic core understanding. In addition, Youtube is open to everybody, so a f2p'er can get a good knowledge of what the strategies are.

 

 

 

Yes, f2p'ers will lack experience. It is true that experience is a big part of the battle, but that does not mean that their opinion should not count. You use the argument that because someone is f2p, they cannot know enough to argue. While on a certain level that may be true, I'm saying that f2p'ers CAN know enough to debate on a p2p level.

 

 

 

I understand what you mean by "this doesn't affect f2p". Maybe it's none of their business. However, in the same way that a citizen cannot directly affect the government, but still is impacted by it; f2p cannot directly benefit from the magic updates, but is still impacted by it. Don't forget that nearly all members were f2p at some point. Also the increased power of magic would transfer to f2p and impact it, through the psychological influence or the economic influence. Furthermore, any big update as such to p2p magic would initiate similar demands from f2p. If you give p2p bigger and better spells, naturally f2p will demand the same. Look at PvP items. Jagex gave p2p'ers PvP equipment for all combat styles, but only melee for f2p. People are still demanding corrupt Mystic and Corrupt Blue Dragonhide.

[sees_all1]

 

Problem is that when you want a kill, you want a kill. I don't want to spend 30 minutes waiting for someone in the deep wilderness, chances are no one is going to come anyway. It leaves (in my estimate) 75% of the players stretched between Varrock and Lumbridge, with the other 10% being clans in falador, the barbarian village. Another 10% are the brave few to venture into the wilderness, and even then most of them are by varrock in a thin band between the ditch to the FoG entrance to the Hill Giants.

 

The last bit I didn't account for are the skillers, scattered throughout various Yews, and the people training in Karamja.

 

Err, what? First you say people are packed in so thick you'll never get a spot to yourself, then you say they're so spread out you don't want to spend 30 minutes looking for a PK. For the record, it's where I PK, and neither of them are true. Plenty of people in wildy, training or PKing training or simply PKing. The chances of getting a kill in a crowded area with any combat style are essentially nil, people just hit a teletab or run.

 

Sorry, you misunderstood me, or I wasn't clear enough in expressing myself.

 

The vast majority of people are packed into a small area of a (relatively speaking) small world. There are other places you can go to look in hopes of a 1v1 with no PJers, but the chances of finding someone your level are much slimmer than if you stick to Varrock or Lumbridge.

 

 

 

If you do go somewhere else, not in varrock or lumbridge, it'll take about 30 minutes to find someone your level.

 

I was guesstimating the percentages, but you get the idea.

 

 

 

 

I also believe that if you add more magic weapons (not spells, weapons), the variety will make it more interesting, even if all you ever see during PVP are the same magic weapons, which is why I support the basic concept, but not the OP's words.

 

So make up your mind. Do you want a more powerful spell\staff\effect that further unbalances magic, or a weaker version that will never be used. Once you pick one out I can start pointing out flaws.

 

It can't be similar in strength to what there is now? Or a tad stronger but costs much much more? Or stronger in some fashion and weaker in others (Has great melee defense but negative melee attack, range attack/defense, and somewhat neutral mage attack/defense). Or it hits a bit harder but hits less often (time, or accuracy)?

[compfreak847]

But I'm talking about things that most TIFers don't know about, things I've never seen on video. There currently isn't a single video on youtube of it, and I'm quite confident that very few, if any, TIFers have mastered it. It requires skill, levels, money, and a passion for PVP. Where could he possibly have learned it? I'd like a link, because I've never seen a single page on it, and he's missing very obvious facts like Zuriel staff swapping - I don't see how you could know anything at all about mage PKing without at least knowing that.

[Jesus_Status]

Why hasn't anybody figured out that arguing with compfreak is absolutly pointless.....he wins all the time :lol:

 

 

 

IMO: I beleive members magic is overpowered, but F2P magic is sad at best, I believe it needs an upgrade.

[sees_all1]

Why hasn't anybody figured out that arguing with compfreak is absolutly pointless.....he wins all the time :lol:

 

 

 

IMO: I beleive members magic is overpowered, but F2P magic is sad at best, I believe it needs an upgrade.

 

 

 

[sarcasm] Thanks mr. point keeper, I'll keep that in mind next time I disagree with him. Oh, and mad props to having an opinion of your own.[/sarcasm]

 

 

 

But I'm talking about things that most TIFers don't know about, things I've never seen on video. There currently isn't a single video on youtube of it, and I'm quite confident that very few, if any, TIFers have mastered it. It requires skill, levels, money, and a passion for PVP. Where could he possibly have learned it? I'd like a link, because I've never seen a single page on it, and he's missing very obvious facts like Zuriel staff swapping - I don't see how you could know anything at all about mage PKing without at least knowing that.

 

Compfreak, maybe if you've never seen it on video, and most people haven't mastered it, then you're one in a hundred million able to pull off things most other scapers can't. This means when you tell us that magic is over-powered, it's because you're talking about your experience which isn't very common place, and when other people talk about how magic is under-powered, its because their experience hasn't been as good as yours.

 

 

 

Oh, and I've learned most of this stuff from reading your arguments on other threads.

 

 

 

"It requires skill, levels, money, and a passion for PVP."

 

That's all I needed to hear, enough said. Good argument, looking forward to the next.

[compfreak847]

 

IMO: I beleive members magic is overpowered, but F2P magic is sad at best, I believe it needs an upgrade.

 

Only after it maxes out, and even then its influence caries well into the 70s ;)

[Sir_Kurity]

Mage is already relatively accurate with mage armor and no weapon, primarily because most of the mage attack bonus is gained from the armor.

 

 

 

Adding a +50 mage attack staff (just an example) would make mage MORE accurate if using a staff and armor, or open up the way for almost full melee gear mages, with maybe one piece of mage armor, and still maintain a positive magic bonus.

 

 

 

Would be cool though...

[compfreak847]

We already have huge mage bonuses with massive melee defence, as demonstrated earlier with some of my setups. Why would we make it MORE defensive AND offensive when it's overpowered on both fronts as it is?

[Sir_Kurity]

Because... i like magic?

[compfreak847]

I do too, and fun as it is to completely overpower people with magic, it's no fun when your the other two combat styles :-#

[sees_all1]

I do too, and fun as it is to completely overpower people with magic, it's no fun when your the other two combat styles :-#

 

Well, only for range. If melee says its no fun to have a mage overpower them, I couldn't care less.

[compfreak847]

 

Well, only for range. If melee says its no fun to have a mage overpower them, I couldn't care less.

 

Unfortunately, miasmic spells do very ugly things to rangers.

 

 

 

And no one combat style should be able to completely dominate the weaker one. A ranger can stand up well to a meleer - even defeat them in some cases. It isn't an open and shut 'mage completely owns melee, melee completely owns range, range completely owns mage' situation.

[Sir_Kurity]

Farcast kills all classes.

 

 

 

That is... assuming you don't get pjed. :ohnoes:

[compfreak847]

Which would be why you PK somewhere with a ghost of a chance of a kill, not 3 squares from a safespot...

[Sir_Kurity]

With KO's you can realistically pk anywhere nowadays =D, just alot harder right next to GE.

[quelmotz]

Scenario: Cb lvl 50 or so mage, about 25 hp. Starts binding and owning a meleer from afar. Suddenly, pjer steps in, chops with his rune scimmy, about 10 hp gone and mage realises he is getting pjed, tries to run for the bank 10 steps away but unfortunately gets chopped twice by the pjer...

 

 

 

Now don't tell me "spot pjers from afar" How? PvP worlds are swarming with people.

 

"bind 'em and run!" By the time you bind them, they would have gotten another shot in, and in addition to a few chops earlier, you would be a piece of dead meat.

 

 

 

Apparently, the pjing situation isn't as oversimplistic as you made it.

[Sir_Kurity]

You have got to be kidding, you are aren't you?

 

 

 

25 hp? I have 57 mage and i already have 28 hp, and im only level 35.

 

 

 

A level 50 mage with 25 hp would have 90 magic, hardly anyone has that.

 

 

 

Your facts are always somehow warped, omg zuriel staff 2 mill for 15 minutes!!!!, omg level 50 with 25 hp!!!!, zomg zomg zomg zomg.

[compfreak847]

It still is, quel. The mage should be level 35 combat, at which the meleer is going to be 30-35 strength. Your hitting 16s, he's hitting 11s. Your not going to be getting chopped.

 

 

 

Also, where are you talking about? I already said that the areas are far from a bank, and I don't usually meet up with piles of PJers in deep wildy, monastery, or any of the half dozen uncrowded PK areas where people actually get kills. Avoiding PJers is as simply as watching your surroundings. It comes across as if you've never tried this...