Torture

[mmmcannibalism]

I'm still awaiting hard empirical proof that torture is anywhere near effective at doing anything aside from getting fake confessions . Rapport building is effective, I've given you evidence for it.

 

 

 

well the Us wont release the documents that show evidence gained from torture, were too busy apologizing for waterboarding.(hate to bring something this political but its accurate)

 

 

 

More related, if non torture related methods are proven as more effective then of course we should abandon methods that are more objectionable if they arent better.

 

 

 

If torture was effective it would be universally effective and there would already be lots of evidence and studies proving it to be effective, which there are none. But hey, USA USA USA! Git dem terrists good

 

 

 

if torture was effective it would be effective were it was being administrated properly; I never said the US was doing so since im not in the CIA nor privy to such matters. The attempt at humor was quite entertaining, you should try stand up.

[Bloodstain]

I'm still awaiting hard empirical proof that torture is anywhere near effective at doing anything aside from getting fake confessions . Rapport building is effective, I've given you evidence for it.

 

 

 

well the Us wont release the documents that show evidence gained from torture, were too busy apologizing for waterboarding.(hate to bring something this political but its accurate)

 

 

 

More related, if non torture related methods are proven as more effective then of course we should abandon methods that are more objectionable if they arent better.

 

 

 

If torture was effective it would be universally effective and there would already be lots of evidence and studies proving it to be effective, which there are none. But hey, USA USA USA! Git dem terrists good

 

 

 

if torture was effective it would be effective were it was being administrated properly; I never said the US was doing so since im not in the CIA nor privy to such matters. The attempt at humor was quite entertaining, you should try stand up.

 

 

 

Humor? Wait, were you making a joke? I'm confused now

[mmmcannibalism]

[hide=]

I'm still awaiting hard empirical proof that torture is anywhere near effective at doing anything aside from getting fake confessions . Rapport building is effective, I've given you evidence for it.

 

 

 

well the Us wont release the documents that show evidence gained from torture, were too busy [hide=]apologizing for waterboarding.(hate to bring something this political but its accurate)

 

 

 

More related, if non torture related methods are proven as more effective then of course we should abandon methods that are more objectionable if they arent better.

 

 

 

If torture was effective it would be universally effective and there would already be lots of evidence and studies proving it to be effective, which there are none. But hey, USA USA USA! Git dem terrists good

 

 

 

if torture was effective it would be effective were it was being administrated properly; I never said the US was doing so since im not in the CIA nor privy to such matters. The attempt at humor was quite entertaining, you should try stand up.

 

 

 

Humor? Wait, were you making a joke? I'm confused now

[/hide]

 

I was commenting on that brilliant critique of american citizens, no need to be confused.

[Zygimantas]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

[Bloodstain]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

Breaking news: Criminals don't think they'll get caught when they commit a crime! Surprise Surprise! Smoking kills, more at 11!

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. And jails should be about rehabilitation, not warehousing individuals. Getting off topic now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To that guy I was confused about, I'm still confused so I'm going to clarify what I last said. If torture worked, then there would be tons of evidence indicating that from others countries in the past, there would be studies able to show it's effectiveness but there are none.

[mmmcannibalism]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

no just no, the only situation where "torture" is possibly reasonable is if there is a severe threat to a large number of people. Torture of people who have no useful information to be gained in any way would be a severe civil rights violation and just plain wrong.

 

 

 

edit--I would say the fact the US has stopped quite a few terror plots and hasnt been attacked since 9/11 is fairly good supporting evidence, admittedly this is a bit cliched but that hardly denies the reality of it.

[Nenga]

Torture is fine if the person deserves it but if he wants to worship his god I won't stop him. As for food, well you're not gonna get information out of him if he has starved to death. Still some food and water will hold you over. I mean I don't even eat 3 meals a day. Kinda sad to know criminals eat better than me.

[Bloodstain]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

edit--I would say the fact the US has stopped quite a few terror plots and hasnt been attacked since 9/11 is fairly good supporting evidence, admittedly this is a bit cliched but that hardly denies the reality of it.

 

 

 

That's not evidence. In certain cases, of course torture is going to work when you've tried nothing else. Care to tell me what attacks and plots they've prevented though and what methods they tried before torture?

[mmmcannibalism]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

edit--I would say the fact the US has stopped quite a few terror plots and hasnt been attacked since 9/11 is fairly good supporting evidence, admittedly this is a bit cliched but that hardly denies the reality of it.

 

 

 

That's not evidence. In certain cases, of course torture is going to work when you've tried nothing else. Care to tell me what attacks and plots they've prevented though and what methods they tried before torture?

 

 

 

A lot of that is going to be classified, and to be honest I dont have the time to research every plot that has been released as somethign we stopped.

[Bloodstain]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

edit--I would say the fact the US has stopped quite a few terror plots and hasnt been attacked since 9/11 is fairly good supporting evidence, admittedly this is a bit cliched but that hardly denies the reality of it.

 

 

 

That's not evidence. In certain cases, of course torture is going to work when you've tried nothing else. Care to tell me what attacks and plots they've prevented though and what methods they tried before torture?

 

 

 

A lot of that is going to be classified, and to be honest I dont have the time to research every plot that has been released as somethign we stopped.

 

 

 

Lol, wow. "Hay guyz, USA iz totally stoping terrists all the time, we just cant know about it"

 

 

 

So, there's tons of evidence that torture doesn't work, and so far there is 0 evidence that it does work.

[Robert_de_Sable]

Torture of any kind has the potential to cause permanent psychological harm, and all techniques discussed inflict suffering and pain on the victim.

 

[venomai]

See my post again.

 

 

 

I wish this lame [wagon] 'lolcat' [cabbage] would stop

[magekillr]

Torture is a net negative. People already explained many of the other points, but one they've clearly forgotten is what it does to your nation's image. Torture serves as a recruitment tool for extremists, only causing more harm overall.

 

 

 

Also, I don't know why people debate this crap: torture is illegal by international law.

[Zygimantas]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

Breaking news: Criminals don't think they'll get caught when they commit a crime! Surprise Surprise! Smoking kills, more at 11!

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. And jails should be about rehabilitation, not warehousing individuals. Getting off topic now.

 

 

 

 

 

Death penalty isn't as effective because it isn't as bad as torture. If I was going to go on a massacre, and knew that I will get the death penalty, then I will be pretty happy; a not too painless death. On the other hand torture is very painful, and is worse then death in my opinion. I would rather be killed then get tortured.

 

 

 

Rehabilitation is a waste of money, if the prisoner has done a more severe crime then they should just be thrown in a ditch with little food.... I'm serious.

[magekillr]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

Breaking news: Criminals don't think they'll get caught when they commit a crime! Surprise Surprise! Smoking kills, more at 11!

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. And jails should be about rehabilitation, not warehousing individuals. Getting off topic now.

 

 

 

 

 

Death penalty isn't as effective because it isn't as bad as torture. If I was going to go on a massacre, and knew that I will get the death penalty, then I will be pretty happy; a not too painless death. On the other hand torture is very painful, and is worse then death in my opinion. I would rather be killed then get tortured.

 

 

 

Rehabilitation is a waste of money, if the prisoner has done a more severe crime then they should just be thrown in a ditch with little food.... I'm serious.

 

 

 

You don't even know what you're saying. How old are you?

[Zygimantas]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

Breaking news: Criminals don't think they'll get caught when they commit a crime! Surprise Surprise! Smoking kills, more at 11!

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. And jails should be about rehabilitation, not warehousing individuals. Getting off topic now.

 

 

 

 

 

Death penalty isn't as effective because it isn't as bad as torture. If I was going to go on a massacre, and knew that I will get the death penalty, then I will be pretty happy; a not too painless death. On the other hand torture is very painful, and is worse then death in my opinion. I would rather be killed then get tortured.

 

 

 

Rehabilitation is a waste of money, if the prisoner has done a more severe crime then they should just be thrown in a ditch with little food.... I'm serious.

 

 

 

You don't even know what you're saying.

Explain.

[Bloodstain]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

Breaking news: Criminals don't think they'll get caught when they commit a crime! Surprise Surprise! Smoking kills, more at 11!

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. And jails should be about rehabilitation, not warehousing individuals. Getting off topic now.

 

 

 

 

 

Death penalty isn't as effective because it isn't as bad as torture. If I was going to go on a massacre, and knew that I will get the death penalty, then I will be pretty happy; a not too painless death. On the other hand torture is very painful, and is worse then death in my opinion. I would rather be killed then get tortured.

 

 

 

Rehabilitation is a waste of money, if the prisoner has done a more severe crime then they should just be thrown in a ditch with little food.... I'm serious.

 

 

 

No, if you were going on a massacre you would kill yourself at the end. And ugh about the rehab, tell you what, get out of high school, get to university, take a few criminal justice courses, then come back and post

[Madmanpur3]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

Breaking news: Criminals don't think they'll get caught when they commit a crime! Surprise Surprise! Smoking kills, more at 11!

 

 

 

This is why the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. And jails should be about rehabilitation, not warehousing individuals. Getting off topic now.

 

 

 

Death penalty isn't as effective because it isn't as bad as torture. If I was going to go on a massacre, and knew that I will get the death penalty, then I will be pretty happy; a not too painless death. On the other hand torture is very painful, and is worse then death in my opinion. I would rather be killed then get tortured.

 

 

 

Rehabilitation is a waste of money, if the prisoner has done a more severe crime then they should just be thrown in a ditch with little food.... I'm serious.

You don't even know what you're saying.

Explain.

The explaination is in your first and second posts. Based on what you've said, you think that bank robbers and car thieves should be "thrown in a ditch with little food". Thus, you don't even know what you're saying...and if you do, you don't know a whole hell of a lot about what you're saying.

[Robert_de_Sable]

Also, I don't know why people debate this crap: torture is illegal by international law.

 

No, there's a way international law mandates you have to treat prisoners of war. Terrorists are not PoWs.

[michel555555]

And here i thought we were almost out of the dark ages.

 

 

 

The good old days where if any pesant were to commit a crime they were tortured because the royalty believed that they lacked the ability to tell the truth.

 

 

 

Torture is a means to get people to confess, not to get people to tell the truth.

 

 

 

clasic waterboaring experiance:

 

 

 

Prisoner: i am not a terrorist..... *blub blub blub*

 

interigator: are you a terrorist!!

 

prisoner: no i am not....... *blub blub blub*

 

interigator: are you a terrorist!!!!!

 

prisoner: yes!!!! make it stop!!!!...*blub blub blub*

 

interigator: do you own a pink unicorn!!!

 

 

 

Unless you have actually experianced drowning you have no right to debate the point that someone experiancing it will do anything to make it stop. I have almost drowned and if someone were to do that to me i would without a doubt confess to anything just to make it stop even if i was innocent

[RichieMcD]

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

Breaking news: Criminals don't think they'll get caught when they commit a crime! Surprise Surprise! Smoking kills, more at 11!

 

 

 

 

 

This is why the death penalty is not an effective deterrent. And jails should be about rehabilitation, not warehousing individuals. Getting off topic now.

 

 

 

 

 

Death penalty isn't as effective because it isn't as bad as torture. If I was going to go on a massacre, and knew that I will get the death penalty, then I will be pretty happy; a not too painless death. On the other hand torture is very painful, and is worse then death in my opinion. I would rather be killed then get tortured.

 

 

 

Rehabilitation is a waste of money, if the prisoner has done a more severe crime then they should just be thrown in a ditch with little food.... I'm serious.

 

 

 

You don't even know what you're saying.

Explain.

 

 

 

Ever thought of the possibility of someone being wrongly charged? I.e An innocent person charged with murder and then they're executed / tortured, yes, that would be an incredibly effective system.

 

 

 

I think that torture should be aloud. Even if the crime is a bit milder like robbing a bank or stealing a car. If people knew they will get tortured then there would be less crimes. Inmates have life too easy in my opinion.

 

 

 

no just no, the only situation where "torture" is possibly reasonable is if there is a severe threat to a large number of people. Torture of people who have no useful information to be gained in any way would be a severe civil rights violation and just plain wrong.

 

 

 

edit--I would say the fact the US has stopped quite a few terror plots and hasnt been attacked since 9/11 is fairly good supporting evidence, admittedly this is a bit cliched but that hardly denies the reality of it.

 

 

 

Name one terror plot and where there is credible evidence as the confession of a tortured person is not credible, going on the theory, "oh there hasn't been an attack for 7 and a half yes, it must be working!" isn't really evidential at all. There wasn't any killings to very few killings in Northern Ireland for about 8 years till this year, now it's slowly starting to kick off again potentially.

[Sly_Wizard]

U.S. Government: "Hey there, Mr. Terrorist. Would you be so nice as to tell us what attacks you have planned for the future?"

 

(Suspected) Terrorist: "No."

 

U.S. Government: "Oh, okay then. You're free to go. Have a nice day."

 

 

 

~~~

 

 

 

As I said on the first page (Which was ignored) once the terrorists start following the rules of conventional warfare (i.e., not specifically attacking civilians, for one), then they're fair game as far as torture is concerned. I'd rather torture a few terrorists in hopes of getting information needed to prevent a future attack then not and have no hopes of preventing a future attack. Why should we play nice if they're not going to? You know where nice guys end up in war?

[venomai]

I'd rather torture a few terrorists in hopes of getting information needed to prevent a future attack then not and have no hopes of preventing a future attack.

 

If only life was an episode of 24, then torture might actually be justified... :lol:

[Bloodstain]

U.S. Government: "Hey there, Mr. Terrorist. Would you be so nice as to tell us what attacks you have planned for the future?"

 

(Suspected) Terrorist: "No."

 

U.S. Government: "Oh, okay then. You're free to go. Have a nice day."

 

 

 

~~~

 

 

 

As I said on the first page (Which was ignored) once the terrorists start following the rules of conventional warfare (i.e., not specifically attacking civilians, for one), then they're fair game as far as torture is concerned. I'd rather torture a few terrorists in hopes of getting information needed to prevent a future attack then not and have no hopes of preventing a future attack. Why should we play nice if they're not going to? You know where nice guys end up in war?

 

 

 

How bout actually reading what I posted on rapport building? Also, no one is saying terrorists shouldn't be tried or punished, we're saying they shouldn't be tortured. So far no one has posted any empirical evidence that torture works so the entire base of the pro torture argument is null. Oh, and none of the "terrorists" have even been tried in a court. If America doesn't like this, then pull out of the middle east, AMERICA is invading THEIR country, not the other way around.

[Chained_life]

Terrorists? I have no problem with pouring water over the face of a person that would laugh while cutting off the head of an American child.

 

 

 

Here's how they torture:

 

 

 

[hide=Real Torture]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/hide]

 

 

 

They forfeited their rights when they flew planes into our buildings and killed our people, resulting in the "physiological torture" of thousands of children, wives, and husbands. Personally, I could give a rats [wagon] about what any country Europe thinks about us, or any country anywhere.