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Why can't adults drink?


Zierro

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I support their decision. The article never says anything about whether or not he was still drinking heavily prior to being in hospital but from the sounds of things, he was. Now if he was in AA and already been sober for quite a while before needing the liver transplant that's a different thing all together.

 

 

 

The problem in the UK is that everyone can and will use the George Best argument when it comes to liver transplants. Best got a transplant despite being a long term alcoholic who continued to drink after his transplant until he died. If I was the guy in the case mentioned, I'd be asking why Best was able to get a transplant and I wasn't - the only difference is that Best was older and was famous.

 

George Best got a liver transplant for one reason only - fame.

 

 

 

I think whether it was the right decision or not depends on if anyone else needed the liver - I think that someone who needs a liver transplant due to say, genetic problems or cancer (i.e. things that aren't their fault) deserves it more than someone who needs it due to self-inflicted liver cihrossis brought on by alcoholism - but if there isn't anyone else who was match for the liver they should've being allowed a chance.

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Refusing service to a overly-drinking teenager? My kind of hospital. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Letting him die though is......somewhat inhumane? He brought it upon himself, but that doesn't mean they essentially let him die.

 

Exactly. Why should we feel guilty?

 

Because any respectable health care system would have treated the person if they needed it, self-inflicted or not.

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[hide=These reasons]Alcohol kills developing brain cells

 

 

 

The brain does not finish developing for males until around 24, and for females around 22 years. We know the adolescent brain is designed to learn, but this plasticity also renders it particularly vulnerable to the damaging effects of alcohol.

 

 

 

Research reveals that the brain goes through dynamic changes during adolescence and that alcohol intake can seriously damage long and short-term growth processes during this time. In the short-term, moderate drinking impairs learning and memory far more in youth than in adults.

 

 

 

Since the development of MRI (multiple resonance imaging) scientists are able to measure changes in the brain, and provide new insights into what actually happens to the brain, under the influence of alcohol. New research has provided more information on young people and their developing brains. In line with such research, it is no accident that some western countries e.g. America have set the age of 21 as the legal age to drink.

 

 

 

Source: Brown SA & Tapert SF 2004 Adolescence and the trajectory of alcohol use: basic to clinical studies. Annals of the New York Academy of sciences, 1021 234-44

 

 

 

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Early alcohol use can cause a change in brain wiring

 

 

 

Young people are quick to learn. While their brains are still developing, they are developing new pathways. These brain pathways can change negatively in response to alcohol at this particularly vulnerable time, possibly hard-wiring the brain with a predisposition to crave alcohol.

 

 

 

This change in the wiring of the brain indicates that early exposure to alcohol somehow changes the reward pathway so this adolescent, as an adult, finds alcohol more rewarding than do those adults who did not drink as adolescents. That strong reward feeling can lead to alcohol abuse problems

 

 

 

Source: Dr Jamie Diaz Granados Associate professor and interim chair of the psychology and neuroscience department at Baylor.

 

 

 

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Early alcohol use can cause a change in brain wiring

 

 

 

The adolescent brain is a work in progress, according to Dr Peter Monti. It is often referred to as plastic because it is built to acquire information, adapt, and learn.

 

 

 

Alcohol, however, can disrupt the adolescent brains ability to learn life skills.

 

 

 

So, not only can heavy drinking at this time get the adolescent into trouble through behaviour, such as risk taking, or drinking and driving, but it can also make the brain less able to learn important life skills that can help one avoid trouble as an adult.

 

 

 

The earlier a person starts drinking:

 

 

 

* the greater the risk of altering the development of the brain

 

* the greater the risk of alcohol problems.

 

 

 

Source: Dr Peter Monti, Symposium organiser, and professor of medical sciences and director of the Center for Alcohol and Addiction Studies at Brown University.

 

 

 

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Alcohol affects teenagers ability to achieve at school

 

 

 

Alcohol can cause severe and possibly lasting brain damage in people under the age of 21. A recent US study compared the brains of those who drank alcohol aged 14 - 21 with those who did not drink.

 

 

 

Teenagers who drank alcohol:

 

 

 

* had smaller areas of that part of the brain that handles memory and learning

 

* had damage to the section of the brain used to make decisions and to reason

 

*

 

* scored worse on vocabulary, visual-spatial tests (the ability to think in pictures and images), and memory tests

 

* performed more poorly in school, were more likely to fall behind and have increased risk of social problems, depression, suicidal thoughts and violence

 

* suffered a change to their sleep cycle, resulting in impaired learning and memory as well as disrupted release of hormones necessary for growth and maturation

 

* had a 10% decrease in verbal and nonverbal information recall

 

* may have difficulties in attaining the goals of adulthood

 

 

 

Source: (AMI) American Medical Associations report on alcohols adverse effects on the brains of children, adolescents and college students updated 2004

 

 

 

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Alcohol takes a greater toll on brain development in those under 21 than in any other age group

 

 

 

Adults would have to consume twice as many drinks to suffer the same brain damage as teenagers; even one heavy drinking session can injure young brains.

 

 

 

* young people do not tolerate the effects of alcohol better than adults, even if youthful stamina enables them to stay up all night drinking when we oldies would be in bed

 

* teenagers (who drink) are more likely to suffer from lack of judgement and memory loss

 

* this is of great concern because some children now try alcohol for the first time as young as 12 years old, and data reveals that most young Australians have tried alcohol by the time they are 16

 

 

 

Source: ADF fact sheet The affects of alcohol on the developing brain Number 3.12 Feb 2005

 

 

 

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There is a strong connection between alcohol consumption, self-harm, and suicide

 

 

 

* If we drink too much, too regularly, we are more likely to become depressed

 

* There is evidence that alcohol changes the chemistry of the brain itself and that this increases the risk of depression

 

* hangovers create a cycle of waking up feeling ill, anxious, jittery, and guilty

 

* regular drinking can cause family arguments and result in poor work output, unreliable memory, and sexual problems

 

 

 

Source: Royal College of Psychiatrists Public education Editorial Board Dr Phillip Timm Editor updated July 2006

 

 

 

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Double trouble

 

 

 

The brain does not fully develop until the mid 20s. In young people, that part of the brain that controls judgment and behaviour is not properly developed. Accordingly, teenagers often engage in risk-taking behavior without having consumed alcohol. Our teenagers are faced with double trouble when they drink alcohol. When these double-trouble situations arise, the police, or worse still the ambulance, is often required.

 

 

 

Source: Family Drug Help

 

 

 

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Parents can influence the drinking patterns of their children

 

 

 

* Parents do have the capacity to set effective rules and parenting practices that could delay the age at which their children would begin using alcohol

 

* By setting rules and monitoring alcohol use in the home parents can have a direct positive influence

 

* Among the students aged 12 15 years responding to a survey, 42 % reported parents as the most common source for obtaining alcohol4

 

*

 

* The longer we delay the age teenagers are allowed to drink alcohol at home, the greater the chance that our teenagers will use alcohol moderately as adults

 

*

 

 

 

4 ADF. Australian Drug Foundation. Prevention research evaluation report. Number 13 February 2005

 

 

 

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Parents who allow their children small amounts of alcohol in an attempt to instill safe drinking habits maybe setting them on the path to becoming binge drinkers

 

 

 

There is no protective effect from giving children alcohol.

 

 

 

Explain to children that alcohol is harmful, and make a rule that children will not be allowed to drink until they reach the legal age. Right through high school that needs to be the message and communities need to back parents with that message.

 

 

 

Source: Associate Professor John Toumbourou from the Centre of Adolescent Health at Melbournes Murdoch Childrens Research Institute quoted in the Australian Newspaper January 2007[/hide]

 

 

 

These are excellent reasons why the drinking age is set at the age it is.

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Refusing service to a overly-drinking teenager? My kind of hospital. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Letting him die though is......somewhat inhumane? He brought it upon himself, but that doesn't mean they essentially let him die.

 

Exactly. Why should we feel guilty?

 

Because any respectable health care system would have treated the person if they needed it, self-inflicted or not.

 

 

 

But if you have say 20 kidneys and 30 people who need transplants, who do you give them to? Someone who is now sober, or someone who has been binge drinking since 13 and may just end up destroying it? It's still a [cabbage]ty situation, but those precious organs can't go to waste

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The whole letting the guy die thing - seemed to me like they were making an example of him, like "hey look, don't rely on us to always give you free organs when you turn your liver to dust!"

 

And I think that he deserved to pay the consequences. There's enough information around these days to show you what happens when you abuse your body like that. More fool him for expecting the NHS to waste time, money and precious organs on him, seeing as the UK don't have a particularly large amount of donors as it is.

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I don't know what to make of that story. He was so young. I bet they don't give a second thought about giving the operation to elderly people... and their time is coming soon anyways. On the other hand, it was his fault and donated livers are pretty scarce.

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I'll let Amanda Marcotte do the talking for me, as there's been a recent controversy over the drinking seen in the new Harry Potter:

 

 

 

I read last night this moral panic that struck me as one of the funnier ones Id read in a long time. Its about the presence of (gasp!) alcohol in the latest Harry Potter movie. Apparently, the British are supposed to pretend that they have the same furtive attitudes toward teenage drinking that Americans have. Because contrary to what the article implies, high school age kids drinking in movies are not unknown in American culture---every teenage comedy Ive seen has at least one scene of an all-night blowout party where everyone gets totally wasted and stupid, because there are no adults around. But were supposed to be worried about the Harry Potter movies, because they show the heroes engaging in responsible alcohol use, and the adults around them dont melt down into total panic attacks about it.

 

 

 

Its true that in the Harry Potter books, alcohol is everywhere, much like it is in the real world. Thats always been the charm of the books, that the magical happenings blend in with normal human behavior. (Which is why the ending where everyone marries their high school sweetheart was so jarring, because it was an unrealistic touch in a generally realistic characterization pattern.) The characters do knock a few back at the pub, toast their fallen comrades, and drink at parties. They are also 16 years old in this movie, in a wizarding world where 17 is the age of adulthood in a country where the drinking age is 16/18, depending on the circumstances. In the 6th and 7th books, were supposed to imagine characters in that gray area between adolescence and adulthood, and drinking alcohol is a normal part of that phase of life. Theres no sense that Rowling applauds irresponsible drinking. Theres only one scene where characters get stupid drunk, and the point of that is that theyre stupid to do so, because then one of them is exploited by Harry to get information out of him. Telling kids that alcohol loosens lips doesnt strike me as an endorsement of getting stupid drunk.

 

 

 

Im not trying to imply that Britain doesnt share some of the problems with binge drinking that the U.S. does. But theres no particular reason to believe that the U.S. system, where kids cant drink in public or around adults until 21, so they instead choose to drink almost exclusively in situations where getting absolutely hammered is expected, is any better. Nor do I think that lying to children, as this NY Times article suggests you do, is the best way to teach responsible habits.

 

 

 

I hope parents can talk to their kids and tell them even though Harry Potter made that seem fun, that it isnt O.K., said Dr. Welsh, the author of a 2007 article about alcohol use in the Harry Potter series, published in The Journal of Child and Adolescent Substance Abuse.

 

 

 

Hey, I dont have a degree in this subject, so what do I know? But it seems to me that if you tell kids that the movie made drinking seem fun, in hopes they think its not fun, theyre going to realize the first time they drink and it is fun that you lied to them. And theyll start to wonder what else you lied about.

 

 

 

Im far from the only one who thinks the prohibition approach to drinking, especially for the college-aged set, is an epic failure. People who are closest to the subject also are beginning to really think that setting the drinking age at 21 is failing in its stated mission to protect younger people.

 

 

 

College presidents from 100 of the nations most prestigious universities are petitioning lawmakers to lower the drinking age from 21 to 18 years of age. The movement, known as Amethyst Initiative, was started by John McCardell, former president of Middlebury College in Vermont, over a year ago in an effort to resume the drinking age debate, Associated Press article said.

 

 

 

The idea that banning something might encourage abuse of it is counter intuitive, but we have reams of experience at this point to show that the prohibition has created a culture of adolescent alcohol abuse that has its own customs that differ from those of older, wiser, and crankier adults who have to suffer hangovers. Younger drinkers dont really have the experience of drinking with older people who can model moderation for them. In addition, the prohibitions on drinking create this scarcity mentality, where underage drinkers suck up all the alcohol in sight when they do get to drink, probably because theres situations where they dont have that privilege, and they resent it. The prohibition creates incentives for underage drinkers to drink heavily before they even leave the house to socialize, because they dont know what their access will be like---though its usually pretty good, and then they end up getting completely hammered.

 

 

 

Alexandra Robbins described this process in her book Pledged, and it seemed that drinking before you go out drinking is the norm in at least the sorority environment. This can create lifelong habits, I fear, though my experience is that turning 21 starts a process of moving into more moderate drinking habits. Not that people dont get drunk, but drinking to get as drunk as possible in as short a time as possible stops being the goal.

 

 

 

But dont take my word for it. Take this guys.

 

 

 

One of the people who was instrumental in pushing for laws to increase the legal drinking age to 21 now calls his actions the single most regrettable decision of his career.

 

 

 

Dr. Morris Chafetz, a psychiatrist who was on the presidential commission in the 1980s that recommended raising the drinking age to 21, made his remarks in an editorial that he is shopping for publication and which he released to the advocacy group Choose Responsibility. Chafetz wrote the editorial to mark the 25th anniversary of the law that was signed by President Ronald Reagan on July 17, 1984.

 

 

 

Legal Age 21 has not worked, Chafetz said in the piece. To be sure, drunk driving fatalities are lower now than they were in 1982. But they are lower in all age groups. And they have declined just as much in Canada, where the age is 18 or 19, as they have in the United States.

 

 

 

Chafetz said the law instead has resulted in collateral, off-road damage such as binge drinking that occurs in underage youth and crimes like date rape, assaults and property damage.

 

 

 

The reduction in drunk driving shows how much promoting responsible playing works so much better as a social health strategy than trying to ban playing altogether. (And the rising teenage pregnancy and STD rates show how the abstinence-only strategy being prioritized over the play safe strategy failed utterly when it comes to sex.) Its basic human psychology. If something is utterly forbidden, people who indulge figure the crimes already committed, so theyre less likely to think about making smart choices that keep them safe. But if theres a little breathing room for the idea that your fun isnt the problem, but some of the effects might be, people are much more willing to talk about making responsible choices. We know this is true when it comes to sex, and Id argue that its true when it comes to drinking. Drunk driving went down because the police prioritize drunk driving while largely ignoring public intoxication. More importantly, the public service campaigns---at least in Texas---focus on the driving aspect of drunk driving, and not the drinking aspect. (No doubt much to MADDs chagrin.) Ads that tell you to take someones keys when theyve had too many imply that friends who drink together can take care of each other. Id suggest another thing thats changed dramatically since the 80s, and thats how TV approaches the subject of drinking. I remember when characters that werent supposed to be derelicts on TV rarely, if ever, drank. But now, we see TV characters drink and often we even see them drunk, but thats also followed up by something that you didnt see in the 80s and early 90s---their friends arranging for drunk people to get home safely. Shows like Sex and the City and The Office come to mind immediately as shows where Ive seen characters a) get drunk and B) not drive in a very visible way. They either get a ride from a friend or take a cab. That sort of thing has helped normalize the idea that its okay to get a ride, and you dont have to deny that youre drunk when you are. Certainly, in the past 14 years Ive lived in Austin, Ive seen a dramatic shift in peoples behavior towards finding ways to get home that dont involve driving.

 

 

 

Call it the bend-dont-break approach, and we need to start applying it to teenage drinking.

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Ok, forgive me for not reading for 20 pages of debating, but a lot of it has to do with the cultral norms and expatations of people when it comes to alcohol.

 

 

 

If you look at a country like Germany, where they have a drinking age of 16 for beer and wine, the youth there have a much more responsible attitiude towards drinking (which is something ingrained in the society) compared to a country such at the US, where binge drinking is encouraged.

 

 

 

I'm lucky that it is only 18 where I live! \'

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Ok, forgive me for not reading for 20 pages of debating, but a lot of it has to do with the cultral norms and expatations of people when it comes to alcohol.

 

 

 

If you look at a country like Germany, where they have a drinking age of 16 for beer and wine, the youth there have a much more responsible attitiude towards drinking (which is something ingrained in the society) compared to a country such at the US, where binge drinking is encouraged.

 

 

 

I'm lucky that it is only 18 where I live! \'

 

 

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa...are you trying to tell me that Germans don't binge drink? lmao. Have you even been there? I have. They hold world famous festivals dedicated just for that. I'm not trying to paint a bad picture of them, but they get drunk and belligerent just like the rest of us.

 

 

 

Contrary to what some might think, the drinking age has little to do with at what age you can hold your liquor, and more to do with a reflection of cultural attitude towards drinking. Have you forgotten they actually tried to ban alchohol in the US? It led to the rise of mobsters and organized crime.

 

 

 

There was also a time in the US when you actually could drink alchohol at 18, but you weren't allowed to vote until you were 21.

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It is pretty dumb, hell i drink and im only 16, but yea it should definently be legalized at age 18.

 

and no im not an alcholic lol.

I wont smoke it if the name ain't right

My haze is looking like its been in a color fight.

Guess we are smoking on Picasso, light it up, ignite the spark.

Man it feels good to be smoking on fine arts.

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