Why can't adults drink?

[perfetc]

I also said that I knew/know that the tv programmes are going to make alcohol seem like the work of the devil (water boy reference ;) ) but they cannot make theat stuff up, it must happen. (I also mentioned this when I brought the point up for the 1st time) but people forget, like I have.

 

 

 

It might have some facts but it's still propaganda. They can do that by specifically ignoring all the pros to alcohol and blowing all the bad things out of proportion. Yes, they might not be "lying" but they are still using a strategy to make it look a lot worse than it actually is.

 

 

 

For example: Did you know an average of over 100 people die in car crashes per day in the US alone? Cars are expensive and kill our planet. Many criminals escape from the police all because of cars.

 

 

 

Notice how I left out the part where it's the most convenient source of transportation available, it is extremely helpful when it comes to emergencies, and all the other good things? It's easy to turn anything into something bad.

 

 

 

Propoganda, did I slip into a time machine!

 

 

 

You do relise that I have agreed with you on this point, don't you? Just saying.

 

 

 

If you still belive that cars are killing the planet, I feel sorry for you. I hope to god you answer this without looking on google (I have asked many people this, there answers are quite shocking) how much co2 do you think is in the air?

[Zierro]

Again, your opinion.

 

 

 

Wow, nice rebuttal. You asked me to define it so I did, again. I fail to see how it being an opinion is relevant. This is a debate full of opinions. That should be pretty obvious.

 

 

 

Yeah, I am not talking about alcohol at all am I :roll:

 

 

 

Not really. Like I said, every time I try to bring us back on topic a little, you avoid it as much as you can. My post consisted of relevant points pertaining to the original discussion - your reply consists of nothing but you keep typing out rebuttals just for the sake of having rebuttals.

 

 

 

Christ, you cling to that dont you, "You called every body who drinks on idiot" I bet it is atleast once a page.

 

 

 

Because it's one of the most idiotic things I've heard on the forums. You can't blame me - after all, I'm just defending myself which is only fair. Oh and it says a lot about you when you get angry about me trying to stay on topic.

 

 

 

I still think that cos dispite your good points you can do them without alcohol.

 

 

 

Is it idiotic to drive a car? Is it idiotic to eat candy? Is it idiotic to ride a roller coaster? Is it idiotic to play sports? Is it idiotic to play video games? This is what we've been trying to tell you for the past 10 pages and you still don't understand! Your logic can be applied to anything under the sun! You don't "need" anything except food, water, and air, so why should something be considered idiotic if it has an alternative? Everything has an alternative, so according to you everything is idiotic since you can "go on without it".

 

 

 

If you still belive that cars are killing the planet, I feel sorry for you. I hope to god you answer this without looking on google (I have asked many people this, there answers are quite shocking) how much co2 do you think is in the air?

 

 

 

I didn't mean killing the planet literally... it's impossible to kill something that's not alive. What I meant is that it uses a lot of our planet's natural resources. And it's amazing how you think that was my actual opinion. :lol: Remember my lecture about analogies? Go back and read it again. It is not my opinion that cars are killing the planet, I'm just showing how ridiculous propaganda is. Stop shooting at your foot - you already blew it off. Jeez, and you blame me for accusing you of ignoring stuff...? You obviously do.

[perfetc]

Again, your opinion.

 

 

 

Wow, nice rebuttal. You asked me to define it so I did, again. I fail to see how it being an opinion is relevant. This is a debate full of opinions. That should be pretty obvious.

 

 

 

I don't comment on it you say I am ignoring them, I comment on them and your still not happy!

 

 

 

Yeah, I am not talking about alcohol at all am I :roll:

 

 

 

Not really. Like I said, every time I try to bring us back on topic a little, you avoid it such as this post right here. My post consisted of relevant points pertaining to the original discussion - your reply consists of nothing but you keep typing out rebuttals just for the sake of having rebuttals.

 

 

 

Ok, so you want me to tell why I think people who drink are idiots so I tell you then I get told I am off topic, is that right?

 

 

 

I didn't know what a rebuttal was, no body knows everything, I found out a rebuttal is "evidence that is presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been presented by an adverse party" how else do people argue or debate something. :?

 

 

 

Christ, you cling to that dont you, "You called every body who drinks on idiot" I bet it is atleast once a page.

 

 

 

Because it's one of the most idiotic things I've heard on the forums. You can't blame me - after all, I'm just defending myself which is only fair.

 

 

 

You don't read alot of threads then, I read one before that wanted us to kill a new level 1000 by ourselvs.

 

 

 

I still think that cos dispite your good points you can do them without alcohol.

 

 

 

Is it idiotic to drive a car? Is it idiotic to eat candy? Is it idiotic to ride a roller coaster? Is it idiotic to play sports? Is it idiotic to play video games? This is what we've been trying to tell you for the past 10 pages and you still don't understand! Your logic can be applied to anything under the sun! You don't "need" anything except food, water, and air, so why should something be considered idiotic if it has an alternative? Everything has an alternative.

 

 

 

You don't understand what I am trying to say. You can do all of the things you have listed without the effect of alcohol.

 

 

 

I think it is rude to patronize people, you said you didn't want to be patronized, that only leaves the truth but it seems you cannot handle that since you keep bringing it up.

 

 

 

Maybe if you had a point for saying that I wouldn't be so bothered, but you don't.

 

 

 

I said it cos you keep bring up the fact I called you an idiot, you bring it up, I tell up AGAIN why I say it, then you say I didn't need to say it, then you bring up the point of me calling you an idiot again.

 

 

 

If you still belive that cars are killing the planet, I feel sorry for you. I hope to god you answer this without looking on google (I have asked many people this, there answers are quite shocking) how much co2 do you think is in the air?

 

 

 

I didn't mean killing the planet literally... it's impossible to kill something that's not alive. What I meant is that it uses a lot of our planet's natural resources. And it's amazing how you think that was my actual opinion. :lol: Remember my lecture about analogies? Go back and read it again. It is not my opinion that cars are killing the planet, I'm just showing how ridiculous propaganda is. Stop shooting at your foot - you already blew it off. Jeez, and you blame me for accusing you of ignoring stuff...? You obviously do.

 

 

 

Ok you obviously don't know how much co2 there is, it is 0.003%. I knew what you meant btw. :roll:

 

 

 

Are you being an idiot again with this post, wait, are you drinking? That is the only reason I could think of that would make somebody post such crap.

 

 

 

You remember saying how you were trying to bring us back on point (dispite the fact you weren't), you never even mentioned alcohol in this post. =D>

[Plugpoint]

Wow, Perfetc said if he's not quoted again he'll stop posting! STOP QUOTING HIM!!! :XD:

 

Lol but seriously I have to respond to this: "You can do all of the things you have listed without the effect of alcohol." It's incredibly difficult for me to overcome how annoyingly shy and quiet I am. I don't know why I'm like it, I just can't express myself easily at all. I hate it. So alcohol, even just a small amount, allows me to be more outgoing, if only for a few hours, it allows me to come out of my shell a bit and I have immense difficulty doing that without it. I can have fun without it, but nowhere near the same amount of fun. It just improves my social skills a lot. So no, I can't do many of the things listed without the effect of alcohol.

 

 

 

That list also included relaxing - from what I gather you're a more aggressive drunk, so you might not identify with this, but a few drinks allow people to forget about deadlines, problems, stress, other crap and just relax a bit. Without alcohol it's more difficult to take your mind off whatever ails you or oppresses you, whatever keeps you up at night.

[Zierro]

I don't comment on it you say I am ignoring them, I comment on them and your still not happy!

 

 

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it matters what that comment is?

 

 

 

Ok, so you want me to tell why I think people who drink are idiots so I tell you then I get told I am off topic, is that right?

 

 

 

I didn't say that. Go back - I think it was the last page. We were doing nothing about arguing about stupid things so I decided to bring up those relevant points because it's better to argue about that than nothing, and you pretty much said, "Nah, I'd rather argue about what we're arguing about right now (nothing) than that since it has already been brought up."

 

 

 

I didn't know what a rebuttal was, no body knows everything, I found out a rebuttal is "evidence that is presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been presented by an adverse party" how else do people argue or debate something.

 

 

 

Having a rebuttal just for the sake of having a rebuttal is a lot different than having a good well-thought one.

 

 

 

You don't read alot of threads then, I read one before that wanted us to kill a new level 1000 by ourselvs.

 

 

 

I have read lots of threads and I still stick by what I said. It's stupid to say that just because someone does something that has an alternative to it then it is "idiotic".

 

 

 

You don't understand what I am trying to say. You can do all of the things you have listed without the effect of alcohol.

 

 

 

And when asked the reasons why people drive, play video games, eat candy or any of those, you can always say that it's possible to do the same things without cars, video games, candy, etc.

 

 

 

Ok you obviously don't know how much co2 there is, it is 0.003%. I knew what you meant btw.

 

 

 

I never brought up co2. And I didn't know how much, but what does that have to do with anything? Another rebuttal for the sake of a rebuttal I assume?

 

 

 

Are you being an idiot again with this post, wait, are you drinking? That is the only reason I could think of that would make somebody post such crap.

 

 

 

I'm actually not going to disagree with you here. This was my whole point in the first place. You asked why people drink. I said so you can feel a little stupid. You responded with, "Well if you wanna drink then you are already stupid."

 

 

 

You remember saying how you were trying to bring us back on point (dispite the fact you weren't), you never even mentioned alcohol in this post.

 

 

 

Who's fault is that? Like I said I "tried". It doesn't mean I was successful. Trying is better than not trying which is what you have been doing. You asked me to define responsible so I did. Then you went onto something irrelevant: "That's your opinion." Duh. How do you expect every thing I say to be relevant when you're the one leading us off course?

 

 

 

Besides, I was arguing against calling something with an alternative "idiotic" which is a lot more relevant than a lot of your posts.

 

 

 

It's incredibly difficult for me to overcome how annoyingly shy and quiet I am. I don't know why I'm like it, I just can't express myself easily at all. I hate it. So alcohol, even just a small amount, allows me to be more outgoing, if only for a few hours, it allows me to come out of my shell a bit and I have immense difficulty doing that without it. I can have fun without it, but nowhere near the same amount of fun. It just improves my social skills a lot. So no, I can't do many of the things listed without the effect of alcohol.

 

 

 

Exactly. His argument seems to be assuming that people use alcohol for absolutely no reason whatsoever. That is very untrue. And if you say, "Oh there are other ways to have fun even if they are not that great," there are other ways of traveling even if they are not as fast, but yet I don't see him calling drivers idiots. People buy alcohol because they feel it helps them have more fun, be more open, relaxed, and generous than the alternatives.

[perfetc]

I don't comment on it you say I am ignoring them, I comment on them and your still not happy!

 

 

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it matters what that comment is?

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

Ok, so you want me to tell why I think people who drink are idiots so I tell you then I get told I am off topic, is that right?

 

 

 

I didn't say that. Go back - I think it was the last page. We were doing nothing about arguing about stupid things so I decided to bring up those relevant points because it's better to argue about that than nothing, and you pretty much said, "Nah, I'd rather argue about what we're arguing about right now (nothing) than that since it has already been brought up."

 

 

 

Course I did. :roll:

 

 

 

I didn't know what a rebuttal was, no body knows everything, I found out a rebuttal is "evidence that is presented to contradict or nullify other evidence that has been presented by an adverse party" how else do people argue or debate something.

 

 

 

Having a rebuttal just for the sake of having a rebuttal is a lot different than having a good well-thought one.

 

 

 

I guess you think yours are fantastic though?

 

 

 

You don't read alot of threads then, I read one before that wanted us to kill a new level 1000 by ourselvs.

 

 

 

I have read lots of threads and I still stick by what I said. It's stupid to say that just because someone does something that has an alternative to it then it is "idiotic".

 

 

 

Not an alternative, an unneeded addition. You never said things like "you can have fun OR drink alcohol"

 

 

 

When the addition is unneeded and expensive then yes, I do think it is idiotic.

 

 

 

You don't understand what I am trying to say. You can do all of the things you have listed without the effect of alcohol.

 

 

 

And when asked the reasons why people drive, play video games, eat candy or any of those, you can always say that it's possible to do the same things without cars, video games, candy, etc.

 

 

 

good comparison! :roll:

 

 

 

Ok you obviously don't know how much co2 there is, it is 0.003%. I knew what you meant btw.

 

 

 

I never brought up co2. And I didn't know how much, but what does that have to do with anything? Another rebuttal for the sake of a rebuttal I assume?

 

 

 

Let me remind you. You brought up the point of cars killing the planet, I asked you how much you thought co2 was in the air, you got confused, I told you.

 

 

 

Are you being an idiot again with this post, wait, are you drinking? That is the only reason I could think of that would make somebody post such crap.

 

 

 

I'm actually not going to disagree with you here. This was my whole point in the first place. You asked why people drink. I said so you can feel a little stupid. You responded with, "Well if you wanna drink then you are already stupid."

 

 

 

You remember saying how you were trying to bring us back on point (dispite the fact you weren't), you never even mentioned alcohol in this post.

 

 

 

Who's fault is that? Like I said I "tried". It doesn't mean I was successful. Trying is better than not trying which is what you have been doing.

 

 

 

How many times did I say the last x number of pages was spam?

 

 

 

Besides, I was arguing against calling something with an alternative "idiotic" which is a lot more relevant than a lot of your posts.

 

 

 

Something with and alternative, alcohol isn't alternative :lol:

[perfetc]

Wow, Perfetc said if he's not quoted again he'll stop posting! STOP QUOTING HIM!!! :XD:

 

Lol but seriously I have to respond to this: "You can do all of the things you have listed without the effect of alcohol." It's incredibly difficult for me to overcome how annoyingly shy and quiet I am. I don't know why I'm like it, I just can't express myself easily at all. I hate it. So alcohol, even just a small amount, allows me to be more outgoing, if only for a few hours, it allows me to come out of my shell a bit and I have immense difficulty doing that without it. I can have fun without it, but nowhere near the same amount of fun. It just improves my social skills a lot. So no, I can't do many of the things listed without the effect of alcohol.

 

 

 

That list also included relaxing - from what I gather you're a more aggressive drunk, so you might not identify with this, but a few drinks allow people to forget about deadlines, problems, stress, other crap and just relax a bit. Without alcohol it's more difficult to take your mind off whatever ails you or oppresses you, whatever keeps you up at night.

 

 

 

I have said that before, obviously it's just another thing you missed.

 

 

 

About the shy thing, I am in certain circumstances but there are better things to cope with that than to search out booze.

 

 

 

It has been said by more people than me that I am an aggresive drunk.

 

 

 

Alcohol my do that, I never said it never, I said there are other ways to do it.

[Zierro]

I guess you think yours are fantastic though?

 

 

 

Judging by the fact that you seem to avoid them, yeah.

 

 

 

Not an alternative, an unneeded addition. You never said things like "you can have fun OR drink alcohol"

 

 

 

When the addition is unneeded and expensive then yes, I do think it is idiotic.

 

 

 

But that's up to the consumer - not you. It might be too unneeded and expensive for you, but not for everyone. I'd much rather spend money on beer than money on an amusement park. Plus I have more fun. You might be an amusement park guy but you don't see me calling you an idiot for your personal choices on what you consider worth it or not.

 

 

 

It would be much more idiotic if I were to spend my money on a park than alcohol since I like alcohol more. That means it is up to the person, not you. If they thought alcohol was just as unneeded and not worth the money as much as you do but they still bought it anyways, then yes that would be idiotic. But most people who drink don't feel that way.

 

 

 

good comparison!

 

 

 

I know. They are all not needed and have their risks, much like alcohol.

 

 

 

Let me remind you. You brought up the point of cars killing the planet, I asked you how much you thought co2 was in the air, you got confused, I told you.

 

 

 

I said propaganda can make it seem like cars are a bad thing because they can say stuff like, "It kills the planet because it eats away our earth's resources." Nothing to do with co2 there. Why did you bring up co2 in the first place?

 

 

 

How many times did I say the last x number of pages was spam?

 

 

 

You might acknowledge it but I barely see you doing anything about it.

 

 

 

Something with and alternative, alcohol isn't alternative

 

 

 

Do you mean alcohol doesn't have an alternative? If so, then you are pretty much ruining your own argument.

[NotoriousPSC]

Its stupid, I know. Individual states should be allowed to choose their own drinking age, and they can, but the Federal Government withholds money if they don't have a 21 year old age. Federal Gov't takes power from the states a lot.

[perfetc]

I guess you think yours are fantastic though?

 

 

 

Judging by the fact that you seem to avoid them, yeah.

 

 

 

Back to this again, I comment - spam, I don't comment - you win. :roll:

 

 

 

Not an alternative, an unneeded addition. You never said things like "you can have fun OR drink alcohol"

 

 

 

When the addition is unneeded and expensive then yes, I do think it is idiotic.

 

 

 

But that's up to the consumer - not you. It might be too unneeded and expensive for you, but not for everyone. I'd much rather spend money on beer than money on an amusement park. Plus I have more fun. You might be an amusement park guy but you don't see me calling you an idiot for your personal choices on what you consider worth it or not.

 

 

 

It would be much more idiotic if I were to spend my money on a park than alcohol since I like alcohol more. That means it is up to the person, not you. If they thought alcohol was just as unneeded and not worth the money as much as you do but they still bought it anyways, then yes that would be idiotic. But most people who drink don't feel that way.

 

 

 

I hate amusement park's.

 

 

 

I am not telling people to stop, I think they should but it isn't up to me.

 

 

 

good comparison!

 

 

 

I know. They are all not needed and have their risks, much like alcohol.

 

 

 

^ = sarcasm .....

 

 

 

Let me remind you. You brought up the point of cars killing the planet, I asked you how much you thought co2 was in the air, you got confused, I told you.

 

 

 

I said propaganda can make it seem like cars are a bad thing because they can say stuff like, "It kills the planet because it eats away our earth's resources." Nothing to do with co2 there. Why did you bring up co2 in the first place?

 

 

 

I assumed you might the crap coming out the back of cars was killing the planet (even though a cat working at it's proper temp basically means nothing is coming out the back of a car.

 

 

 

Actually petrol and diesel, if I remember right, are the last things to come out of crude oil, which ALOT of things come from.

 

 

 

How many times did I say the last x number of pages was spam?

 

 

 

You might acknowledge it but I barely see you doing anything about it.

 

 

 

Ditto but if you did as I have said a number of times and say "I agree to disagree" and say nothing else I wont post again.

 

 

 

Something with and alternative, alcohol isn't alternative

 

 

 

Do you mean alcohol doesn't have an alternative? If so, then you are pretty much ruining your own argument.

 

 

 

No, I mean alcohol is the alternative of doing or being something else.

 

 

 

Do people see alcohol as a wonder drug? "If I drink this all of my problems will melt away for a few hours, I won't be shy, I will have fun, I will relax, I will forget blah blah blah ..." You obviously have the ability to do those things anyway, alcohol doesn't add anything to you, it strips you of that little voice in your head that tears you down and makes you think that you will fail if you ask a girl out or it takes away the stress of a work deadline.

 

 

 

People have become fatter and lazier, they want things to be instant so instead of sitting down with a good book to relax or taking a deep breath and asking that girl out, they run down to the pub or the shop buy a few drinks and it is instant better you.

 

 

 

(yes, I know, it's full of stereotypes and generalizations all that other crap but I don't care)

[Zierro]

I hate amusement park's.

 

 

 

Okay then this is a good opportunity to question you then. Do you think people who buy tickets to those parks are idiots? Why or why not?

 

 

 

^ = sarcasm .....

 

 

 

Yeah, obviously. It is a good comparison though. I really have no clue why you think the line is suddenly drawn at alcohol but for everything else in the world that has an alternative, it's fine.

 

 

 

Ditto but if you did as I have said a number of times and say "I agree to disagree" and say nothing else I wont post again.

 

 

 

You can post here all you want. I have no problem with that. As long as you don't mind me disagreeing. I do agree to disagree, but why do I have to stop posting here?

 

 

 

No, I mean alcohol is the alternative of doing or being something else.

 

 

 

Then cars are the alternative to walking. They are faster though, so that is why people are drawn to them. As for alcohol, it helps some people have a better time than being sober which is why they're drawn to it.

 

 

 

Do people see alcohol as a wonder drug? "If I drink this all of my problems will melt away for a few hours, I won't be shy, I will have fun, I will relax, I will forget blah blah blah ..." You obviously have the ability to do those things anyway, alcohol doesn't add anything to you, it strips you of that little voice in your head that tears you down and makes you think that you will fail if you ask a girl out or it takes away the stress of a work deadline.

 

 

 

Yes, you can do those things but not on the same level. That's why people choose to drink. You might be able to have fun without it, but I have even more fun with it.

 

 

 

People have become fatter and lazier, they want things to be instant so instead of sitting down with a good book to relax or taking a deep breath and asking that girl out, they run down to the pub or the shop buy a few drinks and it is instant better you.

 

 

 

You think that's alcohol's fault? I would say it's because our technology is going at an exponential rate - which means less "doing it yourself". Also, there is processed food to account for that. Alcohol has been around for a very very long time. It's not something that suddenly popped up a few years ago and caused this social decay you're speaking about.

[perfetc]

It's wierd I get bored of this thread, then I am not, then I am :lol:

 

 

 

I hate amusement park's.

 

 

 

Okay then this is a good opportunity to question you then. Do you think people who buy tickets to those parks are idiots? Why or why not?

 

 

 

Never really thought about it, with alcohol you know why I have thought about that but it wasn't like my dad would have a day at an amusement park and get violent. Ill give it some thought and get back to you.

 

 

 

^ = sarcasm .....

 

 

 

Yeah, obviously. It is a good comparison though. I really have no clue why you think the line is suddenly drawn at alcohol but for everything else in the world that has an alternative, it's fine.

 

 

 

I am 20 and I hanv't even considered learning to drive, so it isn't a good example, plus the insane price it costs to get on the road.

 

 

 

Ditto but if you did as I have said a number of times and say "I agree to disagree" and say nothing else I wont post again.

 

 

 

You can post here all you want. I have no problem with that. As long as you don't mind me disagreeing. I do agree to disagree, but why do I have to stop posting here?

 

 

 

What I am saying is if you want the spam to stop just say that instead of bringing up points against me, by all means say that then quote somebody else.

 

 

 

No, I mean alcohol is the alternative of doing or being something else.

 

 

 

Then cars are the alternative to walking. They are faster though, so that is why people are drawn to them. As for alcohol, it helps some people have a better time than being sober which is why they're drawn to it.

 

 

 

Exactly, some people have a better time than being sober.

 

 

 

Do people see alcohol as a wonder drug? "If I drink this all of my problems will melt away for a few hours, I won't be shy, I will have fun, I will relax, I will forget blah blah blah ..." You obviously have the ability to do those things anyway, alcohol doesn't add anything to you, it strips you of that little voice in your head that tears you down and makes you think that you will fail if you ask a girl out or it takes away the stress of a work deadline.

 

 

 

Yes, you can do those things but not on the same level. That's why people choose to drink. You might be able to have fun without it, but I have even more fun with it.

 

 

 

Yes, you can but people are willing to put the effort in to do it.

 

 

 

Like I have said I am a shy person but when I got kicked out I had to start ringing people up and talk to people for advice which I hated doing but because I had to do those things I became more confident with people instead of having a beer to do it temporarily.

 

 

 

People have become fatter and lazier, they want things to be instant so instead of sitting down with a good book to relax or taking a deep breath and asking that girl out, they run down to the pub or the shop buy a few drinks and it is instant better you.

 

 

 

You think that's alcohol's fault? I would say it's because our technology is going at an exponential rate - which means less "doing it yourself". Also, there is processed food to account for that. Alcohol has been around for a very very long time. It's not something that suddenly popped up a few years ago and caused this social decay you're speaking about.

 

 

 

I bet alcohol has been around for millenia but I don't think it has been used as readily and for the same reasons as it has been used for the past few decades. I have no fact to prove that I just can't see it being like it is today.

[Ss_J9_Goten]

The Aussie makes his triumphant return from a night of hard drinking!

 

 

 

I was a bit worried for my liver back there, but I asked him this morning and he said he had fun. No, he didn't suffer any injury. Yes, he really is fine. He's not that much of a lightweight god dammit! No, he didn't "drown", so could we move on, please? We had a whole conversation about it. Oh, and he also said he Jack Daniels.

 

 

 

Jack Daniels

 

 

 

No I didn't throw up, no I didn't make an idiot of myself, no I'm not broke. And no hangover! My head thanks me for that. He also thanks Jack Daniels for the wonderful time he gave us (but don't tell my liver!).

 

 

 

But I did have fun, I did relax, yes I opened up. Praise be, alcohol!

 

 

 

And I'm going to do it all again tonight!

 

 

 

So, getting back to a few of your points...(not solely contained in your most recent post - I've missed a lot :()

 

 

 

Does he want to provide a source for his? Do you want to provide a source fo .... oh wait you don't have a point.

 

 

 

I provided sources early on. But then I thought to myself, why bother going to all that trouble if my opponent isn't going to bother even making a coherent argument (who also thinks dictionary.com and a book are plenty enough for citing). I wouldn't expect others to make that effort either.

 

 

 

I am 20 and I hanv't even considered learning to drive, so it isn't a good example, plus the insane price it costs to get on the road.

 

 

 

Just because you haven't even considered driving doesn't mean it's an invalid comparison. This article puts the US population at 300 million as of October, 2006 (includes people who can't drive due to legal restrictions such as age - this is important).[1] This puts the number of registered passenger vehicles alone at 135.4 million (roughly).[2] (I am the credible Hulk! I cite my sources!). The number of total registered vehicles was 250.8 million (all 2006 statistics). So, as you can see, transport is very important (at least to Americans - I'm sure my Aussie compatriots, and most people, would agree).

 

 

 

Zierro has already explained how your logic could be applied to cars (if you don't see that now there's no point in me reiterating what he's already said). Which reminds me, you're long overdue for a lesson in the English language (specifically: reading comprehension - no, I'm not a grammar Nazi). But that's for another time. And clearly, from the statistics, you're a minority when you say that you haven't considered driving. So, just because you haven't considered driving, that does not invalidate Zierro's point. Although I could have said as much without the explanation, but I like to put some effort and WEIGHT behind my arguments.

 

 

 

So, to sum up, Zierro's car analogy still stands.

 

 

 

What I am saying is if you want the spam to stop just say that instead of bringing up points against me, by all means say that then quote somebody else.

 

 

 

You're the only one arguing for your side; would you prefer we quote each other and engage in a circle jerk? I'm not sure I know Zierro well enough for that. Or plugpoint. So of course we're going to quote you (this reminds me of Peter Harvey, and THE LAST WORD).

 

 

 

Exactly, some people have a better time than being sober.

 

 

 

I don't really get what you're trying to do here, unless it's a clever plot to agree with us on one point in hopes of distracting us from your other points.

 

 

 

But, assuming I'm just paranoid; so you do agree on at least one of the points for alcohol; people have fun whilst intoxicated. I'm still waiting for your reply to the four points for alcohol that I raised a few pages back.

 

 

 

Yes, you can but people are willing to put the effort in to do it.

 

 

 

Like I have said I am a shy person but when I got kicked out I had to start ringing people up and talk to people for advice which I hated doing but because I had to do those things I became more confident with people instead of having a beer to do it temporarily.

 

 

 

Do you really think people have that motivation when they're just trying to be social? Not having a place to stay is a hell of a motivation for approaching people; where do expect that kind of motivation to come from if not alcohol, at least for social settings?

 

 

 

Oh, and alcohol is just the stepping stone (or "gateway", as it were; but I hate that word). Once you're in, you won't need alcohol to be able to approach that person again (so it isn't a quick fix; it's quite permanent. A fair trade off, I would say).

 

 

 

I bet alcohol has been around for millenia but I don't think it has been used as readily and for the same reasons as it has been used for the past few decades. I have no fact to prove that I just can't see it being like it is today.

 

 

 

I would agree that alcohol abuse has become worse in recent years. But I would think you incredibly naive (or maybe I'm just too cynical) if you didn't think that if people can enjoy themselves, they will; alcohol provides that enjoyment (those sixteenth century guys sure know how to party!).

 

 

 

Yes this is a Wikipedia article, but if you don't like that just follow the links provided in the citation section. Or just look up the facts provided on google and see if they are independantly confirmed.

 

 

 

If only modern society thought alcohol was provided by the Gods :( (although the Babylonians (if I remember from the article correctly) disapproved of drunkenness - although modern society is the same, but drunkenness still abounds).

[x_bow80]

This whole thread is like 2 people. perfetc vs. Zierro. Fight to the death.

 

 

 

 

 

And as much as we want this to happen, it never will.

[Plugpoint]

"Do people see alcohol as a wonder drug? "If I drink this all of my problems will melt away for a few hours, I won't be shy, I will have fun, I will relax, I will forget blah blah blah ..." You obviously have the ability to do those things anyway, alcohol doesn't add anything to you, it strips you of that little voice in your head that tears you down and makes you think that you will fail if you ask a girl out or it takes away the stress of a work deadline."

 

That's exactly right. It does melt my problems away for a few hours, I'm not shy, I'll have more fun, relax, forget stuff. I do have the ability to do that anyway, just not to the same extent. It does strip me of that little voice in my head that tears me down. Which is exactly the reason that I love drinking it so much.

 

 

 

People have become fatter and lazier, they want things to be instant so instead of sitting down with a good book to relax or taking a deep breath and asking that girl out, they run down to the pub or the shop buy a few drinks and it is instant better you.

 

People have become fatter due to junk food and lack of exercise. Laziness is something you can't measure, so yet again you've made a dumb point with no source. And like Zierro said about wanting things to be isntant, "it's because our technology is going at an exponential rate" so people expect things to be done incredibly fast. Sitting down with a book has nothing on sitting in the pub socialising. And sometimes asking somebody out needs that little push of courage.

 

 

 

Oh, and another good point: "Alcohol has been around for a very very long time. It's not something that suddenly popped up a few years ago and caused this social decay you're speaking about." It's always been abused. It's just that in the past, people weren't aware of the dangers of it and there wasn't the media coverage that there is today to make people aware of the fact that people enjoy getting drunk.

 

 

 

Never really thought about it, with alcohol you know why I have thought about that but it wasn't like my dad would have a day at an amusement park and get violent. Ill give it some thought and get back to you.

 

Okay then, let's go back to the point about video games. Video games make people violent and have led to murders. Little kids playing their favourite wrestling game might go and try out a move on their brother for a laugh, or some kid in the playground or whatever, and break the bones of the victim. People can also become addicted to video games, or spend hours playing them instead of exercising, which leads to eye problems from staring at the screen, and obesity. So, using your logic which dictates that alcohol is bad because it makes people violent and leads to health problems, that video games are also a terrible thing for the same reason.

 

 

 

I am 20 and I hanv't even considered learning to drive, so it isn't a good example, plus the insane price it costs to get on the road.

 

I am 17 and haven't considered learning to drive, however, like alcohol, I can see there are positive and negative sides. It's faster than walking, it requires less effort than walking, if you enjoy driving that's another positive side. However, it's expensive, it can lead to obesity if you never exercise, it's bad for the environment and if you have a crash you could kill somebody. You've never been drunk just like you've never driven, so using your logic again, you should hate cars and driving because there are health problems and the risk of death associated with it.

 

 

 

Like I have said I am a shy person but when I got kicked out I had to start ringing people up and talk to people for advice which I hated doing but because I had to do those things I became more confident with people instead of having a beer to do it temporarily.

 

You said you CAN be shy to imagine you could understand my predicament. Not that you ARE shy. I digress. Here, you had no other choice but to ring people up. You were desperate for somewhere to stay. You didn't need alcohol for courage here because phoning people up was almost a last resort for you. When I drink to overcome shyness, it's not a last resort. My shyness irritates me, but I can just about live with it. If it were a last resort, I'd have a few shots before college so I could socialise more. I'd have a can of beer before I left the house. Whereas for you, you had an awful lot of motivation as there was no real other option because you were so desperate for shelter - one of the basic things that humans need.

[perfetc]

This whole thread is like 2 people. perfetc vs. Zierro. Fight to the death.

 

 

 

 

 

And as much as we want this to happen, it never will.

 

 

 

Nah, it's 3 against 1. Which is why I have posted 63 times in this thread.

 

 

 

The Aussie makes his triumphant return from a night of hard drinking!

 

 

 

Does he want to provide a source for his? Do you want to provide a source fo .... oh wait you don't have a point.

 

 

 

I provided sources early on. But then I thought to myself, why bother going to all that trouble if my opponent isn't going to bother even making a coherent argument (who also thinks dictionary.com and a book are plenty enough for citing). I wouldn't expect others to make that effort either.

 

 

 

So why bother posting? Its a waste of time then if your not going to make an effort.

 

 

 

I am 20 and I hanv't even considered learning to drive, so it isn't a good example, plus the insane price it costs to get on the road.

 

 

 

Just because you haven't even considered driving doesn't mean it's an invalid comparison. This article puts the US population at 300 million as of October, 2006 (includes people who can't drive due to legal restrictions such as age - this is important).[1] This puts the number of registered passenger vehicles alone at 135.4 million (roughly).[2] (I am the credible Hulk! I cite my sources!). The number of total registered vehicles was 250.8 million (all 2006 statistics). So, as you can see, transport is very important (at least to Americans - I'm sure my Aussie compatriots, and most people, would agree).

 

 

 

Well done you proved almost every body drives, who the hell didn't know that? Next post are you going to give sources on how many people breath aswell?

 

 

 

Zierro has already explained how your logic could be applied to cars (if you don't see that now there's no point in me reiterating what he's already said). Which reminds me, you're long overdue for a lesson in the English language (specifically: reading comprehension - no, I'm not a grammar Nazi). But that's for another time. And clearly, from the statistics, you're a minority when you say that you haven't considered driving. So, just because you haven't considered driving, that does not invalidate Zierro's point. Although I could have said as much without the explanation, but I like to put some effort and WEIGHT behind my arguments.

 

 

 

So, to sum up, Zierro's car analogy still stands.

 

 

 

So you don't want to put effort in but you do want to put effort in .... :roll:

 

 

 

Yes, alcohol and cars are very similer .... 1 is a convieniant made of transport, that costs loads, can carry other people and help your life function like when you go shopping. The other is an easy way out for lazy people, costs loads overall, damages your body and mind.

 

 

 

What I am saying is if you want the spam to stop just say that instead of bringing up points against me, by all means say that then quote somebody else.

 

 

 

You're the only one arguing for your side; would you prefer we quote each other and engage in a circle jerk? I'm not sure I know Zierro well enough for that. Or plugpoint. So of course we're going to quote you (this reminds me of Peter Harvey, and THE LAST WORD).

 

 

 

Clearly you havn't been reading that well, I am shocked since you think you are so superior to me. Go back and have another read.

 

 

 

Exactly, some people have a better time than being sober.

 

 

 

I don't really get what you're trying to do here, unless it's a clever plot to agree with us on one point in hopes of distracting us from your other points.

 

 

 

But, assuming I'm just paranoid; so you do agree on at least one of the points for alcohol; people have fun whilst intoxicated. I'm still waiting for your reply to the four points for alcohol that I raised a few pages back.

 

 

 

Again go and have another read, I have commented on them twice. Shesh!

 

 

 

You do relise thats usually how debates go? People argue for a bit and while there doing that they agree on some points. I knew alcohol effected you the next day but comon these points are WEAK!

 

 

 

Yes, you can but people are willing to put the effort in to do it.

 

 

 

Like I have said I am a shy person but when I got kicked out I had to start ringing people up and talk to people for advice which I hated doing but because I had to do those things I became more confident with people instead of having a beer to do it temporarily.

 

 

 

Do you really think people have that motivation when they're just trying to be social? Not having a place to stay is a hell of a motivation for approaching people; where do expect that kind of motivation to come from if not alcohol, at least for social settings?

 

 

 

So you are totaly unable to speak to people without drinking? I live in a homless shelter don't you think I know that? I never resorted to alcohol, your less likly to get a place to stay if you come staggering over smelling of booze, slurring your words, then walking over sobre and politly asking them.

 

 

 

As for your last question, by growing a pair! And not relying on a substance to do it for them.

 

 

 

Oh, and alcohol is just the stepping stone (or "gateway", as it were; but I hate that word). Once you're in, you won't need alcohol to be able to approach that person again (so it isn't a quick fix; it's quite permanent. A fair trade off, I would say).

 

 

 

Of course you would. So in order for you to talk to any body new you have to drink a few 1st, how I pitty you.

 

 

 

I bet alcohol has been around for millenia but I don't think it has been used as readily and for the same reasons as it has been used for the past few decades. I have no fact to prove that I just can't see it being like it is today.

 

 

 

I would agree that alcohol abuse has become worse in recent years. But I would think you incredibly naive (or maybe I'm just too cynical) if you didn't think that if people can enjoy themselves, they will; alcohol provides that enjoyment (those sixteenth century guys sure know how to party!).

 

 

 

Yes this is a Wikipedia article, but if you don't like that just follow the links provided in the citation section. Or just look up the facts provided on google and see if they are independantly confirmed.

 

 

 

If only modern society thought alcohol was provided by the Gods :( (although the Babylonians (if I remember from the article correctly) disapproved of drunkenness - although modern society is the same, but drunkenness still abounds).

 

 

 

That just doesn't make sense, "But I would think you incredibly naive (or maybe I'm just too cynical) if you didn't think that if people can enjoy themselves, they will"

 

 

 

Modern day is far from disapproving, if that was the case a certain percentage of them would be hypocrites.

 

 

 

Btw, I never read the link cos I don't care :|

 

 

 

NEXT!

 

 

 

..... Holy hell .....

 

 

 

"Do people see alcohol as a wonder drug? "If I drink this all of my problems will melt away for a few hours, I won't be shy, I will have fun, I will relax, I will forget blah blah blah ..." You obviously have the ability to do those things anyway, alcohol doesn't add anything to you, it strips you of that little voice in your head that tears you down and makes you think that you will fail if you ask a girl out or it takes away the stress of a work deadline."

 

 

 

That's exactly right. It does melt my problems away for a few hours, I'm not shy, I'll have more fun, relax, forget stuff. I do have the ability to do that anyway, just not to the same extent. It does strip me of that little voice in my head that tears me down. Which is exactly the reason that I love drinking it so much.

 

 

 

I pitty you then. Bring on the flaming =]

 

 

 

People have become fatter and lazier, they want things to be instant so instead of sitting down with a good book to relax or taking a deep breath and asking that girl out, they run down to the pub or the shop buy a few drinks and it is instant better you.

 

 

 

People have become fatter due to junk food and lack of exercise. Laziness is something you can't measure, so yet again you've made a dumb point with no source. And like Zierro said about wanting things to be isntant, "it's because our technology is going at an exponential rate" so people expect things to be done incredibly fast. Sitting down with a book has nothing on sitting in the pub socialising. And sometimes asking somebody out needs that little push of courage.

 

 

 

Yeah, alcohol doesn't make you get fatter at all, beer belly any body?

 

 

 

If you don't relise people have got fatter and lazier over the past few hundered years your an idiot for that. That doesn't need to be sourced it is obvious, we used to have to go out and hunt or work hard like in the mines to get food now most jobs are easy and require very little energy to do, so people buy fast food and booze then they don't do anything to burn it off, then they get hungry and get more fast food and booze and don't burn it off. Thats why people are eating themsevs to death or into a state were they can't even get out of bed or breath properly when there lying on there back and relying on people cos there to stupid to do something about it till they decide enough is enough so they take the easy way out with a gastric bypass.

 

 

 

I have drunk with friends and I have read a few books and I am not just being difficult but I honestly prefer reading.

 

 

 

Oh, and another good point: "Alcohol has been around for a very very long time. It's not something that suddenly popped up a few years ago and caused this social decay you're speaking about." It's always been abused. It's just that in the past, people weren't aware of the dangers of it and there wasn't the media coverage that there is today to make people aware of the fact that people enjoy getting drunk.

 

 

 

Were you around :?

 

 

 

Never really thought about it, with alcohol you know why I have thought about that but it wasn't like my dad would have a day at an amusement park and get violent. Ill give it some thought and get back to you.

 

Okay then, let's go back to the point about video games. Video games make people violent and have led to murders. Little kids playing their favourite wrestling game might go and try out a move on their brother for a laugh, or some kid in the playground or whatever, and break the bones of the victim. People can also become addicted to video games, or spend hours playing them instead of exercising, which leads to eye problems from staring at the screen, and obesity. So, using your logic which dictates that alcohol is bad because it makes people violent and leads to health problems, that video games are also a terrible thing for the same reason.

 

 

 

Doesn't cause eye problems, I am a typical geek (I have cut down since I was a kid) I have played computer games for 12 hours straight (except toilet breaks etc) and I have always needed glasses so I have eye tests regularly and my eye sight has only got better.

 

 

 

Being fat isn't just down to alcohol, games etc it is also down to your upbringing and some say your genetic make up. As for violence I have only played 1 game that was truly violent, the legendary manhunt and as far as I know it was linked to 1 death. There are films that are worst than what can be dipicted in that game, old boy and the devils rejects come to mind.

 

 

 

There is also the fact that at 18 you are meant to be smart enough to make your own desions so there arn't many 18 year olds who watch a film or play a game then act it out. I know younger brothers can get there hands on it or whatever.

 

 

 

I am 20 and I hanv't even considered learning to drive, so it isn't a good example, plus the insane price it costs to get on the road.

 

 

 

I am 17 and haven't considered learning to drive, however, like alcohol, I can see there are positive and negative sides. It's faster than walking, it requires less effort than walking, if you enjoy driving that's another positive side. However, it's expensive, it can lead to obesity if you never exercise, it's bad for the environment and if you have a crash you could kill somebody. You've never been drunk just like you've never driven, so using your logic again, you should hate cars and driving because there are health problems and the risk of death associated with it.

 

 

 

See it is just the lazy aspect again, I havn't considered driving cos of the cost and me being homless and because I love walking, I walk about 2.2 miles atleast 5 times a week.

 

 

 

A car isn't as nearly as bad as you think for the enviroment, I am a level 3 mechanic. Like I have said before there is a tiny amount of co2 in the air and as for crude oil even if the invention of hydrogen engine takes off (it already has been invented), crude oil will still be drawn out of the eath due to it used in loads of things.

 

 

 

Like I have said I am a shy person but when I got kicked out I had to start ringing people up and talk to people for advice which I hated doing but because I had to do those things I became more confident with people instead of having a beer to do it temporarily.

 

 

 

You said you CAN be shy to imagine you could understand my predicament. Not that you ARE shy. I digress. Here, you had no other choice but to ring people up. You were desperate for somewhere to stay. You didn't need alcohol for courage here because phoning people up was almost a last resort for you. When I drink to overcome shyness, it's not a last resort. My shyness irritates me, but I can just about live with it. If it were a last resort, I'd have a few shots before college so I could socialise more. I'd have a can of beer before I left the house. Whereas for you, you had an awful lot of motivation as there was no real other option because you were so desperate for shelter - one of the basic things that humans need.

 

 

 

Instead of taking a few shots or a beer, take a deep breath and do it. I got alot more out of it then you do drinking alcohol, as dr pepper said "whats the worst that can happen". :

[Plugpoint]

Well done you proved almost every body drives, who the hell didn't know that? Next post are you going to give sources on how many people breath aswell?

 

He said "Just because you haven't even considered driving doesn't mean it's an invalid comparison." Again, we were comparing it to alcohol consumption, again you went entirely off-topic and ignored the point he made.

 

Yes, alcohol and cars are very similer .... 1 is a convieniant made of transport, that costs loads, can carry other people and help your life function like when you go shopping. The other is an easy way out for lazy people, costs loads overall, damages your body and mind.

 

One is a convenient mode of transport, the other is a convenient way to make yourself feel good. One costs several thousand pounds PER YEAR in insurance, in buying a car, in buying lessons and petrol and kitting your car out, one costs a few hundred pounds OVERALL. They can both help your life function in their own ways. They can both damage your body and mind (one car crash can do more physical and psychological damage than a lifetime of drinking). Cars are an easy way out for lazy people. Yet again, a comparison was being made to alcohol consumption to try and make you understand what we're getting at, yet again you ignored the point and went off on a tangent.

 

So you are totaly unable to speak to people without drinking? I live in a homless shelter don't you think I know that? I never resorted to alcohol, your less likly to get a place to stay if you come staggering over smelling of booze, slurring your words, then walking over sobre and politly asking them.

 

As for your last question, by growing a pair! And not relying on a substance to do it for them.

 

I don't mean to sound disrespectful but if you live in a homeless shelter... why do you have a computer? :?

 

Also - yes, you didn't have to resort to alcohol because you were so desperate for shelter. We don't HAVE to resort to it, it just helps. And his last question was that we have no real motivation to do anything because we're not desperate for something that will vastly improve our lives. Because the motivation is not there, drink helps.

 

That just doesn't make sense, "But I would think you incredibly naive (or maybe I'm just too cynical) if you didn't think that if people can enjoy themselves, they will"

 

It makes perfect sense. He pretty much said if somebody is shown a liquid that will help them enjoy themselves, they would be daft to refuse it.

 

 

 

I pity you for being completely unable to spell a simple four-letter word. P-i-t-y.

 

 

 

Yeah, alcohol doesn't make you get fatter at all, beer belly any body?

 

I didn't deny that the beer belly exists. Most of my family have one. But obesity can be attributed to fast food more so than alcohol.

 

I have drunk with friends and I have read a few books and I am not just being difficult but I honestly prefer reading.

 

I have also drunk with friends and I have read more than a few books and I am not being difficult, I really do honestly prefer drinking. It's an opinion.

 

Were you around :?

 

Were you around when Henry VIII was on the throne? No? So how would you know he exists? Through history books, right? Much in the same way that I was not around back in those days but I know they did not have photography and therefore nothing to really document the effects of drinking, and medical knowledge had not evolved to the extent where the effects of drinking on the liver, brain etc could be studied well.

 

Being fat isn't just down to alcohol, games etc it is also down to your upbringing and some say your genetic make up. As for violence I have only played 1 game that was truly violent, the legendary manhunt and as far as I know it was linked to 1 death. There are films that are worst than what can be dipicted in that game, old boy and the devils rejects come to mind.

 

I doubt the genetic make-up thing is true. You may be more likely to be obese based on your metabolism, but you cant just say "I'm fat because of my genes" in most cases where it is down to diet and exercise too.

 

Also, you say there are films worse. Perhaps I should change the scenario then, to say that stunts shown in films can lead to death when re-enacted? A lot of them aren't conscious efforts - for example, you wouldn't shoot somebody just because Scarface shot people, however you may have been exposed to gunfire during the course of Scarface which is lodged in your subconsciousness. Watching too many gangster films could lead to more deaths than alcohol for all we know. Just because nobody's said "I did it because I like Scarface" doesn't mean that Scarface wouldn't have had a part to play in it. (I hope that makes sense... it made sense to me when I read it back lol. Obviously it doesn't just apply to Scarface, it could apply to anything from Grand Theft Auto to WWE.) My point here is that, once again using your logic, films and video games could lead to more deaths than alcohol. Should we hate films and video games?

 

A car isn't as nearly as bad as you think for the enviroment, I am a level 3 mechanic. Like I have said before there is a tiny amount of co2 in the air and as for crude oil even if the invention of hydrogen engine takes off (it already has been invented), crude oil will still be drawn out of the eath due to it used in loads of things.

 

Oh my! A mechanic! He'll know all about the environment! No match for somebody who is studying chemistry!

 

Anyway, I was using cars as a substitute for alcohol in this debate. Just how bad it is for the environment is irrelevant here, all that matters is that it is more than a bit bad for the environment.

 

Instead of taking a few shots or a beer, take a deep breath and do it. I got alot more out of it then you do drinking alcohol,

 

You didn't get what I was saying there. I said that if it were a last resort I would have a few shots. It is not a last resort. I do not need to have a few shots before I leave the house. And you have absolutely no idea just what I get out of drinking alcohol so don't talk as if you know.

[gauper_kid]

Dang guys, whats with all these super long posts? I'd like to get into the debate, but I don't want to have read through all this crap. :wall:

[l0l0lpur34]

 

Instead of taking a few shots or a beer, take a deep breath and do it. I got alot more out of it then you do drinking alcohol,

 

You didn't get what I was saying there. I said that if it were a last resort I would have a few shots. It is not a last resort. I do not need to have a few shots before I leave the house. And you have absolutely no idea just what I get out of drinking alcohol so don't talk as if you know.

 

woah there, I'm against the "alcohol is evil" campaign as much as anyone but even considering drinking before college as a solution to being shy is a slippery slope - I'm pretty shy myself but would be very concerned for myself if I even considered drinking in the daytime.

[perfetc]

Well done you proved almost every body drives, who the hell didn't know that? Next post are you going to give sources on how many people breath aswell?

 

 

 

He said "Just because you haven't even considered driving doesn't mean it's an invalid comparison." Again, we were comparing it to alcohol consumption, again you went entirely off-topic and ignored the point he made.

 

 

 

I was saying it is a bad comparison, I can't see how you missed that!

 

 

 

Yes, alcohol and cars are very similer .... 1 is a convieniant made of transport, that costs loads, can carry other people and help your life function like when you go shopping. The other is an easy way out for lazy people, costs loads overall, damages your body and mind.

 

 

 

One is a convenient mode of transport, the other is a convenient way to make yourself feel good. One costs several thousand pounds PER YEAR in insurance, in buying a car, in buying lessons and petrol and kitting your car out, one costs a few hundred pounds OVERALL. They can both help your life function in their own ways. They can both damage your body and mind (one car crash can do more physical and psychological damage than a lifetime of drinking). Cars are an easy way out for lazy people. Yet again, a comparison was being made to alcohol consumption to try and make you understand what we're getting at, yet again you ignored the point and went off on a tangent.

 

 

 

Cars and alcohol is crap comparison! A car can take you to work, alcohol can't,

 

 

 

 

 

So you are totaly unable to speak to people without drinking? I live in a homless shelter don't you think I know that? I never resorted to alcohol, your less likly to get a place to stay if you come staggering over smelling of booze, slurring your words, then walking over sobre and politly asking them.

 

As for your last question, by growing a pair! And not relying on a substance to do it for them.

 

 

 

I don't mean to sound disrespectful but if you live in a homeless shelter... why do you have a computer? :?

 

Also - yes, you didn't have to resort to alcohol because you were so desperate for shelter. We don't HAVE to resort to it, it just helps. And his last question was that we have no real motivation to do anything because we're not desperate for something that will vastly improve our lives. Because the motivation is not there, drink helps.

 

 

 

 

It is my brothers old computer.

 

 

 

So why drink it? Save money and get driving lessons or a deposit on a house or flat etc.

 

 

 

That just doesn't make sense, "But I would think you incredibly naive (or maybe I'm just too cynical) if you didn't think that if people can enjoy themselves, they will"

 

 

 

It makes perfect sense. He pretty much said if somebody is shown a liquid that will help them enjoy themselves, they would be daft to refuse it.

 

 

 

If it cost nothing, didn't damage your health, lead to addiction or possibly ruin relationships then yes, no body would refuse it.

 

 

 

So do you think people who don't frink are idiots?

 

 

 

I pity you for being completely unable to spell a simple four-letter word. P-i-t-y.

 

 

 

Ever have a mental block were forget how to spell a really simple word, well ....

 

 

 

Yeah, alcohol doesn't make you get fatter at all, beer belly any body?

 

 

 

I didn't deny that the beer belly exists. Most of my family have one. But obesity can be attributed to fast food more so than alcohol.

 

 

 

Equal measure with an unhealthy life style.

 

 

 

I have drunk with friends and I have read a few books and I am not just being difficult but I honestly prefer reading.

 

 

 

I have also drunk with friends and I have read more than a few books and I am not being difficult, I really do honestly prefer drinking. It's an opinion.

 

 

 

Ok .... :?

 

 

 

Were you around :?

 

 

 

Were you around when Henry VIII was on the throne? No? So how would you know he exists? Through history books, right? Much in the same way that I was not around back in those days but I know they did not have photography and therefore nothing to really document the effects of drinking, and medical knowledge had not evolved to the extent where the effects of drinking on the liver, brain etc could be studied well.

 

 

 

I forget what this point was about.

 

 

 

Being fat isn't just down to alcohol, games etc it is also down to your upbringing and some say your genetic make up. As for violence I have only played 1 game that was truly violent, the legendary manhunt and as far as I know it was linked to 1 death. There are films that are worst than what can be dipicted in that game, old boy and the devils rejects come to mind.

 

 

 

I doubt the genetic make-up thing is true. You may be more likely to be obese based on your metabolism, but you cant just say "I'm fat because of my genes" in most cases where it is down to diet and exercise too.

 

Also, you say there are films worse. Perhaps I should change the scenario then, to say that stunts shown in films can lead to death when re-enacted? A lot of them aren't conscious efforts - for example, you wouldn't shoot somebody just because Scarface shot people, however you may have been exposed to gunfire during the course of Scarface which is lodged in your subconsciousness. Watching too many gangster films could lead to more deaths than alcohol for all we know. Just because nobody's said "I did it because I like Scarface" doesn't mean that Scarface wouldn't have had a part to play in it. (I hope that makes sense... it made sense to me when I read it back lol. Obviously it doesn't just apply to Scarface, it could apply to anything from Grand Theft Auto to WWE.) My point here is that, once again using your logic, films and video games could lead to more deaths than alcohol. Should we hate films and video games?

 

 

 

I agree that blaming your weight problems on genetics is just shifting blame but I didn't say it was fact did I? I just said some people think it.

 

 

 

Those films are aimed at 18's who are supposed to be able to watch a film enjoy the violence of the film then go out into the real world and carry on. Alcohol effects your brain as you have all agreed on (by saying things like it makes you more confident etc) so things that you would other wise avoid doing like fight, you might do under the effects of alochol ... like me, usually I hold doors open for people, say please and thank you etc but the times I have been tipsy I start swearing, insulting and shouting at everybdoy (more than usual ;) ) I feel more angry and stuff.

 

 

 

A car isn't as nearly as bad as you think for the enviroment, I am a level 3 mechanic. Like I have said before there is a tiny amount of co2 in the air and as for crude oil even if the invention of hydrogen engine takes off (it already has been invented), crude oil will still be drawn out of the eath due to it used in loads of things.

 

 

 

Oh my! A mechanic! He'll know all about the environment! No match for somebody who is studying chemistry!

 

Anyway, I was using cars as a substitute for alcohol in this debate. Just how bad it is for the environment is irrelevant here, all that matters is that it is more than a bit bad for the environment.

 

 

 

I LOVE science! :D You might know more about what chemicals do what with each other but that doesn't mean you know what a car spews out which is a point you brought up and are now saying it doesn't matter, WTF!

 

 

 

Instead of taking a few shots or a beer, take a deep breath and do it. I got alot more out of it then you do drinking alcohol,

 

 

 

You didn't get what I was saying there. I said that if it were a last resort I would have a few shots. It is not a last resort. I do not need to have a few shots before I leave the house. And you have absolutely no idea just what I get out of drinking alcohol so don't talk as if you know.

 

 

 

YOU have told ME what YOU get out of it!

[Plugpoint]

 

Instead of taking a few shots or a beer, take a deep breath and do it. I got alot more out of it then you do drinking alcohol,

 

You didn't get what I was saying there. I said that if it were a last resort I would have a few shots. It is not a last resort. I do not need to have a few shots before I leave the house. And you have absolutely no idea just what I get out of drinking alcohol so don't talk as if you know.

 

woah there, I'm against the "alcohol is evil" campaign as much as anyone but even considering drinking before college as a solution to being shy is a slippery slope - I'm pretty shy myself but would be very concerned for myself if I even considered drinking in the daytime.

 

No no no I didn't say I'd considered it at all. I said IF it were a last resort - which it absolutely isn't, I can deal with being shy. I would never, ever resort to drinking at/before college. I'd quite like to remember things so I can have a half-decent career lol.

 

 

 

EDIT: I replied to that when I'd just got home and couldn't really remember what I was on about earlier lol. Basically, Perfetc had said that he had never needed to rely on alcohol for motivation, to which I said nor had I - hypothetically speaking, if I'd absolutely needed to rely on it then I would need a drink before I left the house. But I don't need to rely on it, so I don't need to do that. I think that was the point I was trying to make :?

 

 

 

YOU have told ME what YOU get out of it!

 

I've said what but not to what extent. I don't think even I really know to what extent seeing as a few of my closest friends have been made whilst I've been inebriated.

[Zierro]

Instead of taking a few shots or a beer, take a deep breath and do it. I got alot more out of it then you do drinking alcohol

 

YOU have told ME what YOU get out of it!

 

 

 

I really want to know why you think taking a breath is just as helpful as alcohol. First of all, you've never been drunk. Second of all, you are not Plugpoint so you would not fully understand what she gets out of it. You're coming up with your own personal value on how much she gets out of it. Who are you to say that? Only she has the right to say how much she gets out of it. She might have told you why she drinks, but that doesn't mean you know exactly what she gets out of it.

 

 

 

Cars and alcohol is crap comparison! A car can take you to work, alcohol can't,

 

 

 

No it isn't. Saying that just proves to us that you pick and choose to have an evil stigma surrounding alcohol because of what happened in the past. Your reasons for hating alcohol can be applied to anything with a risk and an alternative.

 

 

 

Alcohol can get you drunk - a car can't!

 

 

 

Of course you would. So in order for you to talk to any body new you have to drink a few 1st, how I pitty you.

 

 

 

Something you seem to be persistently ignoring is that most people who drink don't do it because they have to - they do it because they want to. To them, the benefits outweigh the risks. You might hurt your liver a little from drinking. You might also hurt your fingers from playing video games. You might also hurt your neck in a car accident. You might also damage your skin from being out in the sun too long. You might also step on a sharp rock if you walk around without shoes. No one needs to do any of those things - they just want to because to them the positives outweigh the negatives. Now, if you think that there are more negatives than positives then fine, but don't call us idiots for feeling differently.

 

 

 

PS: No one called you an idiot for not drinking. You're the one who came on this thread and called the majority of us here all idiots. Then you get surprised when you have to "defend" yourself from multiple people who disagree. It really doesn't make sense.

[Ss_J9_Goten]

Don't bother attacking our points, just attack us.

 

 

 

Nice job, idiot.

 

 

 

(I would attack your points, but...you don't have any).

 

 

 

EDIT: I think I'll give you that lesson now...

 

 

 

COMING SOON.

 

 

 

I am 20 and I hanv't even considered learning to drive, so it isn't a good example, plus the insane price it costs to get on the road.

 

 

 

This is you saying that because you don't drive, Zierro's car analogy is flawed (I would love to see the reasoning behind this one...).

 

 

 

Just because you haven't even considered driving doesn't mean it's an invalid comparison. This article puts the US population at 300 million as of October, 2006 (includes people who can't drive due to legal restrictions such as age - this is important).[1] This puts the number of registered passenger vehicles alone at 135.4 million (roughly).[2] (I am the credible Hulk! I cite my sources!). The number of total registered vehicles was 250.8 million (all 2006 statistics). So, as you can see, transport is very important (at least to Americans - I'm sure my Aussie compatriots, and most people, would agree).

 

 

 

This is me proving you wrong, because a lot of people drive (comparable to how many people drink, likely). Yes, I am proving that a lot of people drive; you saw what my point was but failed to understand it (oh how delicious!).

 

 

 

So the lesson here is, read what the [bleep] people are saying; understand what they are saying; do not skim over it for two seconds and assume you understand completely!

 

 

 

Yes, alcohol and cars are very similer .... 1 is a convieniant made of transport, that costs loads, can carry other people and help your life function like when you go shopping. The other is an easy way out for lazy people, costs loads overall, damages your body and mind.

 

 

 

You (paraphrasing) - alcohol is bad because there are alternatives that don't cost as much.

 

- alcohol is bad because it causes so many health problems (just look at the nhs!)

 

 

 

Watch closely (and read this time!)

 

 

 

Cars are bad because there are alternatives that don't cost as much.

 

Cars are bad because they cause so many health problems (just look at the nhs!) [e.g. crashes, not as healthy as walking, et al.]

 

 

 

Do you see now? Please tell me you do. I would hate for you to be ignorant as you are now (really, it's killing me inside).

 

 

 

What I am saying is if you want the spam to stop just say that instead of bringing up points against me, by all means say that then quote somebody else.

 

 

 

nah, it's 3 against 1

 

 

 

This is you saying to quote someone else. It is also you saying that it's YOU (singular) against US (plural).

 

 

 

Clearly you havn't been reading that well, I am shocked since you think you are so superior to me. Go back and have another read.

 

 

 

This didn't even have any relevance to what you were replying to. If I am to quote someone other than you, it must be myself, Zierro or plugpoint. A circle jerk is where people agree with each other in order to stroke their own ego's. So I would be engaging in a circle jerk with either Zierro or plugpoint (or going solo...)

 

 

 

[hide=]

You do relise thats usually how debates go? People argue for a bit and while there doing that they agree on some points. I knew alcohol effected you the next day but comon these points are WEAK!

 

 

 

Then cars are the alternative to walking. They are faster though, so that is why people are drawn to them. As for alcohol, it helps some people have a better time than being sober which is why they're drawn to it.

 

 

 

Exactly, some people have a better time than being sober.

 

 

 

I am 20 and I hanv't even considered learning to drive, so it isn't a good example, plus the insane price it costs to get on the road.

[/hide]

 

 

 

So you say Zierro's car analogy is flawed, having agreed with his point.

 

 

 

You're not very good at this, are you?

 

 

 

So you are totaly unable to speak to people without drinking? I live in a homless shelter don't you think I know that? I never resorted to alcohol, your less likly to get a place to stay if you come staggering over smelling of booze, slurring your words, then walking over sobre and politly asking them.

 

 

 

Do you really think people have that motivation when they're just trying to be social?

 

 

 

When people are trying to be SOCIAL there is a lot of pressure. Alcohol relieves that pressure. Motivation provides a greater pressure than social settings (thus overcoming the social pressure). It's a very difficult concept to grasp, I know, but just try and you might succeed.

 

 

 

As for your last question, by growing a pair! And not relying on a substance to do it for them.

 

 

 

We're going to deviate from the English lesson a bit here. You cannot expect people to change something about themselves just like that (without help, anyway [alcohol to the resuce!]). If people are naturally shy, you can't just expect them to be the life of the party. Alcohol changes that.

 

 

 

That just doesn't make sense, "But I would think you incredibly naive (or maybe I'm just too cynical) if you didn't think that if people can enjoy themselves, they will"

 

 

 

Would you rather enjoy yourself, or be bored? I want honest answers, mind. Alcohol has existed for a very long time. People have existed longer. Alcohol helps people enjoy themselves. If people discover that alcohol helps them enjoy themselves, do you think they'd rather not drink and not enjoy themselves, or drink and enjoy themselves?

 

 

 

And my point is thus; human nature dictates we gravitate towards alcohol. Ancient humans included.

 

 

 

Modern day is far from disapproving, if that was the case a certain percentage of them would be hypocrites.

 

 

 

Yeah, because I've never seen a news article saying how bad the alcohol problem is, and I've never had teachers telling me that alcohol is baaaaad :roll:

 

 

 

Btw, I never read the link cos I don't care

 

 

 

And that is why you will remain ignorant. How I pity you (what a turnaround!).

 

 

 

Hopefully you've learned something today.

[Giordano]

Zierro, I must admire your patience. ~8 pages of arguing and still kicking! Dayum! :lol:

[trapical]

Wow pretty hot debate going on here. Ill just add the fact that trust me, once your in your twenties you will see there is a huge difference between a 18 year old and a 21 year old. People get so much more mature in those years, 18 year olds are high school kids who think the word poop is hilarious. 21 year olds are seniors in college ready to join the work force with an advanced degree. I mean, loot at this picure.

 

 

 

 

18 year old on the left: Hey guys, lets go play pokemon and drink vodka!

 

21 year old on the right Why I do declare, I think a glass of Gin would go well with my research thesis

 

 

 

Both pics are from google images. Anyway my point is there is a huge difference in maturity in those 3 years. Also the brain stops growing by that age, while a light alcoholic intake wont hurt either brain, an alcoholic binge will have a lot more detrimental affects on the 18 year olds brain. In many counties teenagers above the age of 17 are allowed to drink beer and wine, but harder liqueurs like rum and vodka require the age of 21 or in some cases, 25. This actually makes a lot more sense, but its harder to enforce so the US just covers everything at 21.