Why can't adults drink?

[k00ldud95]

Wow pretty hot debate going on here. Ill just add the fact that trust me, once your in your twenties you will see there is a huge difference between a 18 year old and a 21 year old. People get so much more mature in those years, 18 year olds are high school kids who think the word poop is hilarious. 21 year olds are seniors in college ready to join the work force with an advanced degree. I mean, loot at this picure.

 

 

 

 

18 year old on the left: Hey guys, lets go play pokemon and drink vodka!

 

21 year old on the right Why I do declare, I think a glass of Gin would go well with my research thesis

 

 

 

Both pics are from google images. Anyway my point is there is a huge difference in maturity in those 3 years. Also the brain stops growing by that age, while a light alcoholic intake wont hurt either brain, an alcoholic binge will have a lot more detrimental affects on the 18 year olds brain. In many counties teenagers above the age of 17 are allowed to drink beer and wine, but harder liqueurs like rum and vodka require the age of 21 or in some cases, 25. This actually makes a lot more sense, but its harder to enforce so the US just covers everything at 21.

 

 

 

 

 

You said that the brain stops growing at 21, but it stops developing in the mid twenties. Things in humans rarley happen exactly at the artifical dates we set. People do not go from being childish to being mature at midnight the day before they turn 18, which is the legal moment of majority.

 

 

 

Maybe I have a biased perspective, but the difference in maturity depends on the person, and the situation. For example, I know many people from my old high school who are still entirely dependant on their parents at the age of 21, they haven't grown or gained anything at all. In addition, only about 30% of 18 to 24 year olds in America are actually in college. (http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/in ... easure=104) (and we are discussing an American law) In any case, college is not an incredibly difficult thing to go through, at least not if you take it with the level of seriousness that I have seen. Especially if their parents are paying for everything.

 

 

 

On the other hand, there are people who have to take several full time humiliating jobs in order to support themselves while they attend college. There are people who take extremely demanding courses. There are people like me, who joined the service. I know some people who are raising children at 21.

 

 

 

An 18 year old is probably capable of functioning in most ways, but they simply lack the experience. So what good would delaying it for three years do? Most people have already been drinking for years at 18. It's good enough to be an adult. Anyway, It's totally unenforcable. It's just like the laws on marijuana, our police have better things to do. Underage drinking is so common that it is a part of our culture now. It is a part of just about every underaged persons life, and the evidence of that is one after another on this board saying that they drink all the time.

 

 

 

If you put a bottle of beer in the hand of any idiot who can't handle it, they will act like a moron and prove it. Isolate those people, and bar them from drinking. Don't waste the time of our police with pointless cat-and- mouse chases, and dumb little ethics laws pushed by special interest groups.

[Plugpoint]

 

He looks about 8! :shock:

[Guest]

America is weird anyways, a minor can touch bullets, but as soon as he touches alcohol he's bad? Guns and weapon kill more than alcohol.

 

 

 

Here in my country (the Netherlands) are these age limits;

 

 

 

Driving scooter/light motorcycle/tractor; 16

 

Smoking; 16

 

Drinking Alcohol; 16 (hard liquor 18+)

 

Intercourse; 16/18

 

Driving real motor cycle, car or other vehicle; 18

 

Smoking cannabis (legal here); 18

 

Gambling; 21

 

 

 

Hard drugs; Banned

 

Guns; Banned, unless you have a permit

 

 

 

Alcohol is in the most cases only harmful to yourself (unless you drink & drive which is not allowed in the Netherlands), Smoking on the other hand kills by second hand, because people around them involuntary inhale the smoke particles. Driving could be possibly fatal (especially due to the fact new drivers have an increased chance of acting stupid in traffic).

 

 

 

On top of all that I never understand why the USA hasn't banned it's guns yet. Probably due to the fact their main source of income is from selling weapons....Weapons kill

 

 

 

Oppose to what many people think the Dutch hardly have a drug problem even though soft drugs are legal. I never tried it though ;), it doesn't appeal to me

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ca ... th_by_rate

 

 

 

Developed country's;

 

 

 

Ischaemic heart disease 3,512,000

 

Cerebrovascular disease 3,346,000

 

Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 1,829,000

 

Lower respiratory infections 1,180,000

 

Lung cancer 938,000

 

Car accident 669,000

 

Stomach cancer 657,000

 

Hypertensive heart disease 635,000

 

Tuberculosis 571,000

 

Suicide 499,000

 

 

 

Most of these disease have something to do with smoking/driving (yes a few with drinking) and a few with old age.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pr ... s_of_death

 

 

 

Smoking as Nr.1 I rest my case (obesity, with diabetes II is a good second, think about it and lose some weight)

[Plugpoint]

Yeah I agree, smoking's much worse than drinking. At least with alcohol you know what you're drinking whereas they stick all kinds of horrible chemicals in cigarettes. Plus, every single time you light a cigarette around people you are causing them irreversible damage whereas when you drink you rarely harm anybody other than yourself.

[Zierro]

Both pics are from google images. Anyway my point is there is a huge difference in maturity in those 3 years. Also the brain stops growing by that age, while a light alcoholic intake wont hurt either brain, an alcoholic binge will have a lot more detrimental affects on the 18 year olds brain. In many counties teenagers above the age of 17 are allowed to drink beer and wine, but harder liqueurs like rum and vodka require the age of 21 or in some cases, 25. This actually makes a lot more sense, but its harder to enforce so the US just covers everything at 21.

 

 

 

You raise a good point. When I look back at myself even one year ago I can't help but feel a little ashamed. :lol: But then there are still a lot of people who are "at age to drink" who are even less mature than a lot of 18-year-old's I know. It comes down to the individual more than it comes down to their age. I know a 40-year-old man who had a family he needed to take care of, but all he did was smoke pot and drink all day instead of looking for a job. The government is fine with allowing him to buy alcohol that could have bought his family dinner that night, but yet they won't allow an 18-year-old with a job and a scholarship the right to buy alcohol during a holiday? It's just messed up how many restrictions society has on us. If we need restrictions I think it would be better to base it off of something else rather than age.

 

 

 

Zierro, I must admire your patience. ~8 pages of arguing and still kicking! Dayum! :lol:

 

 

 

That's what happens when you fight for something you believe in, even if it's only verbally. :mrgreen:

[Plugpoint]

Zierro, the problem comes with enforcing these regulations... For example, one of my family can come across as a good father and a knowledgeable, likeable accountant but given a few pints too many he's falling through their fence at his daughter's third birthday party. Same applies to me. I'm generally pretty sensible and academic, but a bat[cabbage]-crazy drunk. Unfortunately, age is the only thing that they can use as a restriction

[Zierro]

Yeah, there really is no solution except to get rid of restrictions completely. If anything, maybe the amount of alcohol should be regulated based on your age. It's stupid how you can't buy a drop of alcohol when you are 20 years and 364 days old but the second you turn 21 you can buy twenty bottles of whiskey if you wanted. Does that one day really make that much of a difference - you suddenly mature overnight enough to drink as much as you want even though last night you weren't mature enough to have even one shot? And what's the point of making 18 the age of adulthood when you can't even make your own decisions at that age?

[trapical]

You said that the brain stops growing at 21, but it stops developing in the mid twenties. Things in humans rarley happen exactly at the artifical dates we set.

 

You are well informed, I was hoping no one would catch that. : \

 

 

 

The brain stops developing around the age of 25. Car insurance and rental car companies know this. In the US you pay a huge extra charge when you rent a car if you're younger. Younger people are more likly to wreck the cars.

 

 

 

At what age can you rent a car at the same price as an adult? Twenty five. ;)

[l0l0lpur34]

You said that the brain stops growing at 21, but it stops developing in the mid twenties. Things in humans rarley happen exactly at the artifical dates we set.

 

You are well informed, I was hoping no one would catch that. : \

 

 

 

The brain stops developing around the age of 25. Car insurance and rental car companies know this. In the US you pay a huge extra charge when you rent a car if you're younger. Younger people are more likly to wreck the cars.

 

 

 

At what age can you rent a car at the same price as an adult? Twenty five. ;)

 

I'm not sure what the situation is like in the US but in the UK the reason why car insurance is so much more expensive for younger people is partly because of boy racers/other people who drive overconfidentiy causing accidents usually being young and these people usually growing out of it by the time they are in their twenties.

[i_love_burritos]

Both pics are from google images.

 

 

 

Yeah. Credibility. Reeaaal credible.

 

 

 

And that guy looks about 12.

 

 

 

:?

 

Yeah, there really is no solution except to get rid of restrictions completely. If anything, maybe the amount of alcohol should be regulated based on your age. It's stupid how you can't buy a drop of alcohol when you are 20 years and 364 days old but the second you turn 21 you can buy twenty bottles of whiskey if you wanted. Does that one day really make that much of a difference - you suddenly mature overnight enough to drink as much as you want even though last night you weren't mature enough to have even one shot? And what's the point of making 18 the age of adulthood when you can't even make your own decisions at that age?

 

 

 

Look Zierro, there has to be some cut-off point. Either you're allowed to drink alcohol the day you are born, or alcohol is strictly prohibited. See how ridiculous that is ? You can't argue that there is a magical point because at any limit there is going to be a difference. And implementing some type of "progressive system" would be far too hard to maintain. The reason why alcohol may seem ridiculous is the fact that it's a very easily obtainable "taboo item" when compared against firearms or hard drugs. It's overall utility is very high. Think of a weapon. You need a license, the know-how, ammunition, storage facility, etcetera . Or even a car. You need to be a certain height to reach the gas and brakes [as a physical discriminant].

 

 

 

But alcohol is different entirely. But I think it still has two sides. It can act as a social grease or faux pas agitator.

 

 

 

:|

[Zierro]

Look Zierro, there has to be some cut-off point.

 

 

 

And why is that? I would agree if the cut-off point didn't mean that somebody 20 years old and 364 days can't buy one freaking shot of alcohol, but then the next day the law states he's allowed to buyout the bar if he wants. That's what happens when you make things like this mandatory. I can understand waiting one day when it comes to an 18-year-old because I'm fine with making compromises and that is the age of adulthood, but 21? Seems like a random year to me. You might say 18 is random too but then that would mean the word "adult" really has no purpose then.

 

 

 

Either you're allowed to drink alcohol the day you are born, or alcohol is strictly prohibited.

 

 

 

Except I don't think small children would be that interested in alcohol anyways.

 

 

 

I don't mean to come off as liberal as I do, but I think rules like this are bull. Laws should exist to protect citizens - not to tell an adult they can't drink a sip of something all in the name of being "consistent".

 

 

 

And implementing some type of "progressive system" would be far too hard to maintain.

 

 

 

You took that too literally. Obviously it would be up to the seller's discretion and not as black and white as our current age laws. It might have some flaws but no more than the current system - it's ridiculous to deny a 20-year-old one shot of alcohol while allowing a 21-year-old to buy as much as he wants. There are no limits to the amount of alcohol you buy - which I think is a bigger problem than age. I'd rather have a little boy drink a shot than a grown man drink a whole keg. Yet there is no law against that. That was the point I was trying to make.

[l0l0lpur34]

You took that too literally. Obviously it would be up to the seller's discretion and not as black and white as our current age laws. It might have some flaws but no more than the current system - it's ridiculous to deny a 20-year-old one shot of alcohol while allowing a 21-year-old to buy as much as he wants. There are no limits to the amount of alcohol you buy - which I think is a bigger problem than age. I'd rather have a little boy drink a shot than a grown man drink a whole keg. Yet there is no law against that. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

I'm not sure about in the US but in the UK in bars/pubs/clubs it's illegal to serve people who are already drunk

[Hugger_88]

Smoking or joining the military doesn't make you do stupid things that can harm you or others... :|

 

UNLESS you are smoking something other than cigarettes.

 

 

 

But I never understood it either. Alchohol is meant to relieve stress. Not in excessive quantity, but you should be able to drink younger but also it does make you do stupid things when you dont drink responsibly.

[Plugpoint]

I'm not sure about in the US but in the UK in bars/pubs/clubs it's illegal to serve people who are already drunk

 

Are you serious? Never heard that one before... Are you sure that's not just your local pub's policy?

 

I'm not sure the pubs care anyway, they'd be daft to say no to money.

 

Plus it's difficult to tell how drunk somebody is. With me it's really obvious because I give up walking and just crawl everywhere. With others the only noticeable thing is they become a bit louder or overly friendly... and how's the barman to know they're not usually that loud and friendly? It's just a bit impractical trying to enforce that.

 

 

 

Also, I agree with Zierro that it's silly the day before you turn 18 you can't buy anything. But then if they did a progression thing, a 17-and-a-half-year-old could go into one shop and buy a legal amount, then go into the next shop and buy the same amount and so on, and have a thoroughly good time. Which nobody wants. Of course. :roll:

[l0l0lpur34]

I'm not sure about in the US but in the UK in bars/pubs/clubs it's illegal to serve people who are already drunk

 

Are you serious? Never heard that one before... Are you sure that's not just your local pub's policy?

 

I'm not sure the pubs care anyway, they'd be daft to say no to money.

 

Plus it's difficult to tell how drunk somebody is. With me it's really obvious because I give up walking and just crawl everywhere. With others the only noticeable thing is they become a bit louder or overly friendly... and how's the barman to know they're not usually that loud and friendly? It's just a bit impractical trying to enforce that.

 

It is, and although it's hard to specifically enforce, a few years ago there was a case where someone who had just turned 18 and was having their first few drinks tried to keep up with their dad and ended up dying of alcohol poisoning and the pub was charged with manslaughter because they pub shouldn't have kept serving them.

[unkn0wnwarrior]

I'm not sure about in the US but in the UK in bars/pubs/clubs it's illegal to serve people who are already drunk

 

Are you serious? Never heard that one before... Are you sure that's not just your local pub's policy?

 

I'm not sure the pubs care anyway, they'd be daft to say no to money.

 

Plus it's difficult to tell how drunk somebody is. With me it's really obvious because I give up walking and just crawl everywhere. With others the only noticeable thing is they become a bit louder or overly friendly... and how's the barman to know they're not usually that loud and friendly? It's just a bit impractical trying to enforce that.

 

It's the same in Canada, I think. I've never had to worry about it, though. To be honest, I'm kind of afraid to drink.

[Guest]

Smoking or joining the military doesn't make you do stupid things that can harm you or others... :|

 

 

 

Wait what???????

 

 

 

Smoking --> second hand kill by enforcing other people around you to breath in the same particles you do. I don't give a fudge if you get lung cancer, but I don't want it just because people around me smoke. Smoking is also addictive and thereby makes you do stupid things (such as smoking ;) ), and as I just told you smoking is harmful to you and to others.

 

 

 

Joining the military does nothing else than making you do stupid things to harm yourself or others. So shooting a bullet at someone that doesn't deserve it is not a stupid thing to do? And military doesn't do that for you? or maybe you are to believe that you will not be send into a useless war (like the one in Iraq or Afghanistan) just because of some idiots on both sides??? (Yes I mean Islamic extremists, and Christian idiots (AKA Bush)). Also you could get killed because you are in the army, or you could get injured. Also I've seen pictures of children, women and men, all innocent, being bombed by USA military, cluster bombs... weapons of mass destruction... And why where they in Iraq.. oh wait yes!!! They where searching for weapons of mass destruction!!! So to find them they use them #-o, Also to my knowledge USA is the only country that has used weapons of mass destruction so far in a war against another country.

 

 

 

So I rest my case that weapons and smoking bring harm to yourself and other people, more than a night of drinking does. And then again most people can control themselves while drinking, it's something you should learn.

[vivimancer]

I'm not sure about in the US but in the UK in bars/pubs/clubs it's illegal to serve people who are already drunk

 

 

 

It's the same in Canada, I think. I've never had to worry about it, though. To be honest, I'm kind of afraid to drink.

 

 

 

i think the cultural difference needs to be explained, you can drink and smoke at 18, however most pubs close around 12pm (with a few exceptions) and some clubs kick out at 6am.

 

Unlike Australia which has to show a sign saying "we serve drinks not drunks" most places have a pretty relaxed attitude of 'if your able to count out £3.30 for a pint and walk away with-out spilling it' you'll be alright.

 

But unknown is right that a bar manager can be fined if one of his patrons dies on the premises.

[i_love_burritos]

This article :

 

 

 

[hide=Alcoholic dies after doctors refuse liver transplant]A 22-year-old British man who became an alcoholic as a teenager has died after doctors refused to give him a liver transplant.

 

 

 

Gary Reinbach began binge drinking when he was just 13 and ended up with severe cirrhosis of the liver.

 

 

 

He was admitted to a London hospital in May but died after doctors refused to give him a liver transplant amid fears he would not stay sober for six months after the operation.

 

 

 

Reinbach's distraught mother Madeline Reinbach said her son had been in great pain and scared before his life support machine was turned off on Sunday.

 

 

 

"When Gary was told how ill he was and how long he had left, I just held him and we both cried," she told the Daily Mirror newspaper in Britain on Tuesday.

 

 

 

"Gary wanted to live so badly - he did everything he could to co-operate with the doctors.

 

 

 

"They told him to stop smoking and he did. They told him to stay in bed and he did.

 

 

 

"All he wanted to do was prove that he was serious, and that he wouldn't drink again.

 

 

 

"But he never had the chance to prove himself properly because he was too fragile to be sent home.

 

 

 

"He couldn't go against the doctors, but because of that he couldn't have the second chance he wanted so much."

 

 

 

Reinbach was one of the youngest people in Britain to die of advanced cirrhosis brought on by binge drinking.

 

 

 

His mother said her son began drinking bottles of cheap cider with his mates while skipping school.

 

 

 

His habit got worse when he left school aged 17 and began drinking up to eight cans of beer plus a bottle of vodka or half a bottle of whisky and cans of cider.

 

 

 

The NHS Blood and Transplant service said in a statement Reinbach's case highlighted the dilemma faced by doctors because of a shortage of donated organs.

 

 

 

"They have to make tough decisions about who is going to get the benefit and who is going to take best care of this precious gift," the NHS said.[/hide]

 

 

 

Source: SMH.

[Giordano]

This article :

 

 

 

[hide=Alcoholic dies after doctors refuse liver transplant]A 22-year-old British man who became an alcoholic as a teenager has died after doctors refused to give him a liver transplant.

 

 

 

Gary Reinbach began binge drinking when he was just 13 and ended up with severe cirrhosis of the liver.

 

 

 

He was admitted to a London hospital in May but died after doctors refused to give him a liver transplant amid fears he would not stay sober for six months after the operation.

 

 

 

Reinbach's distraught mother Madeline Reinbach said her son had been in great pain and scared before his life support machine was turned off on Sunday.

 

 

 

"When Gary was told how ill he was and how long he had left, I just held him and we both cried," she told the Daily Mirror newspaper in Britain on Tuesday.

 

 

 

"Gary wanted to live so badly - he did everything he could to co-operate with the doctors.

 

 

 

"They told him to stop smoking and he did. They told him to stay in bed and he did.

 

 

 

"All he wanted to do was prove that he was serious, and that he wouldn't drink again.

 

 

 

"But he never had the chance to prove himself properly because he was too fragile to be sent home.

 

 

 

"He couldn't go against the doctors, but because of that he couldn't have the second chance he wanted so much."

 

 

 

Reinbach was one of the youngest people in Britain to die of advanced cirrhosis brought on by binge drinking.

 

 

 

His mother said her son began drinking bottles of cheap cider with his mates while skipping school.

 

 

 

His habit got worse when he left school aged 17 and began drinking up to eight cans of beer plus a bottle of vodka or half a bottle of whisky and cans of cider.

 

 

 

The NHS Blood and Transplant service said in a statement Reinbach's case highlighted the dilemma faced by doctors because of a shortage of donated organs.

 

 

 

"They have to make tough decisions about who is going to get the benefit and who is going to take best care of this precious gift," the NHS said.[/hide]

 

 

 

Source: SMH.

 

Refusing service to a overly-drinking teenager? My kind of hospital. :thumbsup:

[____]

I support their decision. The article never says anything about whether or not he was still drinking heavily prior to being in hospital but from the sounds of things, he was. Now if he was in AA and already been sober for quite a while before needing the liver transplant that's a different thing all together.

[1_man_army]

I support their decision. The article never says anything about whether or not he was still drinking heavily prior to being in hospital but from the sounds of things, he was. Now if he was in AA and already been sober for quite a while before needing the liver transplant that's a different thing all together.

 

 

 

The problem in the UK is that everyone can and will use the George Best argument when it comes to liver transplants. Best got a transplant despite being a long term alcoholic who continued to drink after his transplant until he died. If I was the guy in the case mentioned, I'd be asking why Best was able to get a transplant and I wasn't - the only difference is that Best was older and was famous.

[Plugpoint]

Thought I'd post this here. Proof that alcohol is a) relaxing and B) exercise (therefore good for you) ;)

[RichieMcD]

This article :

 

 

 

[hide=Alcoholic dies after doctors refuse liver transplant]A 22-year-old British man who became an alcoholic as a teenager has died after doctors refused to give him a liver transplant.

 

 

 

Gary Reinbach began binge drinking when he was just 13 and ended up with severe cirrhosis of the liver.

 

 

 

He was admitted to a London hospital in May but died after doctors refused to give him a liver transplant amid fears he would not stay sober for six months after the operation.

 

 

 

Reinbach's distraught mother Madeline Reinbach said her son had been in great pain and scared before his life support machine was turned off on Sunday.

 

 

 

"When Gary was told how ill he was and how long he had left, I just held him and we both cried," she told the Daily Mirror newspaper in Britain on Tuesday.

 

 

 

"Gary wanted to live so badly - he did everything he could to co-operate with the doctors.

 

 

 

"They told him to stop smoking and he did. They told him to stay in bed and he did.

 

 

 

"All he wanted to do was prove that he was serious, and that he wouldn't drink again.

 

 

 

"But he never had the chance to prove himself properly because he was too fragile to be sent home.

 

 

 

"He couldn't go against the doctors, but because of that he couldn't have the second chance he wanted so much."

 

 

 

Reinbach was one of the youngest people in Britain to die of advanced cirrhosis brought on by binge drinking.

 

 

 

His mother said her son began drinking bottles of cheap cider with his mates while skipping school.

 

 

 

His habit got worse when he left school aged 17 and began drinking up to eight cans of beer plus a bottle of vodka or half a bottle of whisky and cans of cider.

 

 

 

The NHS Blood and Transplant service said in a statement Reinbach's case highlighted the dilemma faced by doctors because of a shortage of donated organs.

 

 

 

"They have to make tough decisions about who is going to get the benefit and who is going to take best care of this precious gift," the NHS said.[/hide]

 

 

 

Source: SMH.

 

Refusing service to a overly-drinking teenager? My kind of hospital. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Letting him die though is......somewhat inhumane? He brought it upon himself, but that doesn't mean they essentially let him die.

[Giordano]

 

 

 

 

 

Refusing service to a overly-drinking teenager? My kind of hospital. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Letting him die though is......somewhat inhumane? He brought it upon himself, but that doesn't mean they essentially let him die.

 

Exactly. Why should we feel guilty?