Tip.It Times - Total amount of GP in RS?

[stevester77]

 

 

 

As for those who say that the price on regular items never increase. Well I remember back when I first started in November of last year, one could easily buy/sell coal for 100 each. Now the price on coal is around 160 each. Also, you could buy yews back in january for 220 each and now they sell for 300 each.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Newer players always think prices have rise when they play the game longer. This is just *not* true. The prices on materials have not increased in ages. Prices on coal when I started were 200gp each (2.75 years ago) it was 220 per right before runescape 2, and was 180 per shortly after. Ever since rs2 it has been somewhere in the range of 150 - 180gp. You remembering them being 100gp each when you started was just the prices you got when selling 100 coal. Yes ofcourse, 100 coal goes at a considerably lower price - that has nothing to do with prices increasing, but with you looking at bulk prices now, instead of small amounts ;).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahh how true that is, plus I should have also factored in my lack of knowledge when first entering the game, like the time I believed someone when he told be my chaos and nats were worth only 50 each :? .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow I am seriously amazed, you people need to snap back to reality. This is a game, people play it to have fun and here you are discussing inflation? I mean I think its a good article and its fun to know how much money there is in the total of runescape, but inflation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some people like me find discussing inflation and the state of the rs economy is fun. Theres nothing we need to really "snap back" from :roll: .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I what we have here is a luxury problem: you are allready millionairs and dont want other people to become millionairs, so you think up ways to prevent others making money. To you it may be nothing when shop prices increase or when you need to pay the bank to withdraw notes or need to pay toll or something, but to beginning and medium level players it will make the game a lot harder and also a lot less fun! When you really feel there is too much money in runescape, make an example and withdraw a couple millions from your bank, go to a place where nobody ever comes, drop it and watch it dissappear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you actually take time to read the post's, theres nothing greedy or "luxerious" about them. You say we are trying to prevent lower levels from making money by decreasing the amount of gp coming into the economy, but really one can argue that we are trying to achive the opposite. Think about it this way: a year ago in december and january (depending on when you bought it) were around 400-600k. With this in mind, some low-medium lvl player could easily have cut 2k yews and bought themselves a santa. Now santas are around the range of 5m, so that same low-medium lvl player now has to cut a little over 16.5k yews. How did that inflation on the santa make it easier for you to attain a rare? As for just dropping a couple million from our bank, it would be pointless. As you can see, with around 1b coming into the economy daily, it wouldn't even make a dent :roll: .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is also my perspective, but generally people think that they are of higher status when they have more money. If I wanted to I could be a millionair in this game, just go merchanting rares and makes loads of money, but i just dont like that.

 

 

 

It seems to me that the only people worrying about inflation are the people that think that having a lot of money is having a high status. And they feel their status threatened by the money that flows into runescape on a daily basis, so in order to keep their status they thought up ways to keep their own money but prevent others from getting rich.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If more money is flowing into the economy, wouldn't that only increase the price of rares which would in turn make us more "rich"? And by us getting "richer", wouldn't that defeat the point?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People from the Netherlands are so smart :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Woot im dutch too :D ..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I live in the states though and I can't speak the language :oops:

[r2-pleasent]

Although I understand where you're coming from on this post Duke, there are far too many generalizations on this post to truly calculate the average GP in Runescape. As many people have said, Fletching and Smithing have many methods of gaining experience. I believe a huge area left out of this estimation was the amount of Exp that went into arrows, or other items which do not create GP in any way. I would say 90% of the people on my Friends List have used arrows for Fletching exp, and have made items like Cannonballs or arrowheads for Smithing exp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When it comes down to it, using experience as an indicator of how much money is really floating around in the economy results in a number that is based far too greatly on generalizations. There are numerous ways to earn Experience in either skill, and therefore, it is foolish to theorize as if everyone was using the exact same method to gain this experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is safe to assume, however, is that the majority of cash coming into the game is from High Alchemy. Basically, as we all know, the game is continuously growing. Yesterday I noticed a whopping 150,000 users logged in simultaneously at one point in the day, which is the highest I've ever seen myself. What is definitely proven by this estimation by Duke is that the amount of GP being produced is much greater than that which is taken away, and therefore, as the number of users continues to grow, then the amount of Gold in the game will increase accordingly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, the amount of actual cold hard cash floating around is unimportant. We can get a very good idea of how much GP is in circulation simply by the prices of Rares, which reflect this number in a comparative fashion. What you can rely on is that with time and more players entering the game, we can expect the margin between GP being produced, and GP being destroyed to greaten. [/b]

[Escape5]

amazing how you figured that out. Did u factor in rcing though? Scamming? =\

[Stubru_Freak]

amazing how you figured that out. Did u factor in rcing though? Scamming? =\

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you high alch your runes? No, you sell them, so the money is just transferred from one player to another, no money is made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same for scamming

[LGBR]

only 455 bill? meh duke freedom has that much in his pocket, my educated guess is prolly up in the trills, cause alot of people theive too im not sure if that was counted, not to mention runecrafters crafting nats and selling, also barrows has influenced a bit of money, and im sure everyone knows about santa hats :(

I dont know how santas would put money in the economy, if anything it would take it because when people sell one and get money they buy crap like runes and arrows from stores

[primadog]

Very well done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even minor drains/generators might leads to significant changes to the overall. For example, there's about 2 million accounts in RS2, in Black Knight's Fortress quest, you receive 2500 as reward, that means 2500 x 2,000,000 = 5B gold. Now, this is might not look like much, but vast majority of the quests require items that costs $, and since most people do do them (refering to f2p quests), they can add up to quite a money drain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If extrapolate this example, we can observe that allot of the minor drains that popularly used might actually results in large effect in overall economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, every statistical summary should have an accompanying error % to allow us to better appreciate your data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just a side note:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Yes, rs has (huge) inflation. The weird thing about it, compared to real life, is that it only leads to higher prices of rare items, while everything else tends to stay at the same price."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From my observations, this may be result of the fact that majority of rs population is below the age that can comprehend the dynamics of economy. Not having easily accessed economic indicators does not help the situation, either.

 

 

 

In addition, just because the overall amount of money increase doesn't mean the money is evenly distributed to everyone's pockets. Considering we're agreeing that High Alch is where most the cash come-in, most of the money goes to the high level, richer players. While some money do eventually triggle down to the poorer players, the increase, in comparison, would be modest (At the same time, poorer players would be more interested in purchasing immediate items instead of hoarding gold pieces). Therefore, purchasing power of the poorer caste remain very modest, thus commodity price remain fairly even.

[Iantiger]

Great analysis Duke!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Ian

[Duke_Freedom]

In my opinion, the amount of actual cold hard cash floating around is unimportant. We can get a very good idea of how much GP is in circulation simply by the prices of Rares, which reflect this number in a comparative fashion. What you can rely on is that with time and more players entering the game, we can expect the margin between GP being produced, and GP being destroyed to greaten.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hm, I think you are turning things around a bit by saying that though. Rares are priced high because there is so much gp in the economy. Furthermore, trying to estimate the GP in circulation by looking at the prices of rares is both risky and nearly 100% guesswork. You can't know for sure if the rares are currently overvalued or undervalued, you can't know how the total worth of the rares market relates to the total gp in game and you can't know how many of each rare there exist. I think reasoning the other way, trying to estimate the amount of rares around given an estimate on the total gp in game, is a lot safer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, every statistical summary should have an accompanying error % to allow us to better appreciate your data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I didn't really mention it, but obviously I never ment the 455bil estimate to be exact. I would say an error percentage of 10% is nothing but reasonable, making the estimate like 400 - 500bil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And ofcourse a lot of minor facts could add up to significant amount. Don't forget it goes two ways too.. There are both loads of small gp creators and small gp drains.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't say much more on this: if you want to make any estimates at all you'll have to simplify the reality in a way that it hopefully doesn't give totally different results from the reality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From my observations, this may be result of the fact that majority of rs population is below the age that can comprehend the dynamics of economy. Not having easily accessed economic indicators does not help the situation, either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or rares / richness may just be a more important part of the game then a lot of people are willing to admit. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In addition, just because the overall amount of money increase doesn't mean the money is evenly distributed to everyone's pockets. Considering we're agreeing that High Alch is where most the cash come-in, most of the money goes to the high level, richer players. While some money do eventually triggle down to the poorer players, the increase, in comparison, would be modest (At the same time, poorer players would be more interested in purchasing immediate items instead of hoarding gold pieces). Therefore, purchasing power of the poorer caste remain very modest, thus commodity price remain fairly even.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Easy calculations show that high alchers doesn't make money though.. Strung yew longs are sold for ~500gp each, while nats are sold for ~325gp each. That would mean it costs ~825gp to alch a yew longbow, while it alchs for 768gp. So the money gotten from the high alching goes the yew cutter, the bow string maker and the nat maker, and the high alcher even pays a little extra for the (fast) exp he gains.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Materials probably stay low because there is a certain consistency between the amount of pure gp one can create / hour, how much you can earn from doing skills / hour, and how much extra exp buying materials gives you / hour. As all these 3 factors are somewhat constant and considering the idea that the game is not only about skills, this sounds like a good reason why inflation doesn't effect material prices.

[MetalGod]

thats a pretty good estimate

[silver24-7]

only 455 bill? meh duke freedom has that much in his pocket, my educated guess is prolly up in the trills, cause alot of people theive too im not sure if that was counted, not to mention runecrafters crafting nats and selling, also barrows has influenced a bit of money, and im sure everyone knows about santa hats :(

 

 

 

thats what i thought.

 

 

 

though ur crafting nats and selling doesnt count cus thats money that laready existed.

 

 

 

anyway i think theres way more money in the economy =P

 

 

 

and i think ur a bit low on the monster drops part.

 

 

 

im only 78 combat (mage based)

 

 

 

and ive definetly alched more then a 200k value of monstere drops.

[TheMyst]

Wow. I couldn't figure that out. At least I can guess that there is around 300B-400B floating around on RS. :)

[DaneKarai]

Duke_Freedom, just for the record, I think you should take a look at this article over there on Runesource.co.uk, written in response to yours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I just read an article on the Runescape economy over on Tip.It and it's clear the author doesn't have the slightest clue on how a financially backed threaded economy works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I wrote up my own article which treats the RS economy as what it is, a threaded dynamic economy. Take a look."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The article is here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.runesource.co.uk/modules.php ... 102&page=1

[slayer369]

Have you counted for the money left in Runescape Classic from when the new game was created? People who took long breaks during that time or decided to stay on Classic combined would equal a lot of cash. Anyway, most of the people that stayed on classic were high-levelled.

[RunningJan]

 

only 455 bill? meh duke freedom has that much in his pocket, my educated guess is prolly up in the trills, cause alot of people theive too im not sure if that was counted, not to mention runecrafters crafting nats and selling, also barrows has influenced a bit of money, and im sure everyone knows about santa hats :(

I dont know how santas would put money in the economy, if anything it would take it because when people sell one and get money they buy crap like runes and arrows from stores

 

 

 

Santas do sell for 64 gp at the general store...... Stupidest thing i ever did :oops:

[crone]

There is really no way to tell how much money is in rs.

 

 

 

I mean, right now, about 1-200 ppl on rs are highalching or selling something to general stores right now, and thats per world, since there are about 100 worlds on rs. So if this continued, another bil gp would come into rs in a month or so. Meaning, in 2 years if everybody did nothing but highalch, there would be more gp in rs then there are stars in the universe. So there is really no way to tell how much money is in rs.

 

 

 

Not to mention the countless amounts of gold being dropped from monsters who are getting killed every day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats alot of gp. :shock:

[Duke_Freedom]

http://www.runesource.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=102&page=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I got little more to say on the article then that the person who wrote it needs to learn the difference between "Item Worth" and "Pure Cash". Furthermore I would recommend the author to take some courses on economics, as his article makes little sense... How does 300 yew longs a day relate to 1 steel plate? How can he say that the rares market is not part of the economy while the value of that market is huge?

[kk26300]

Interesting fact...it is cool! It's also a good math/economy class. :P

[kimi]

 

 

 

I think we can say about 50bil-90bil gp was banned by Jagex. Note that you should also add all gp that went to RuneScape Classic to this total. According to stories I heard, numerous hackers with 100s mils have been banned. Also, duper accounts who cashed out duped party hats might have been banned with loads of gp on them. I mostly base my guess on these cases.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats where your calculations go wrong. There were numerous of 'hackers' who had billions and billions in just pure gp. They made their money by creating tons and tons of dragon shields and then high alching them for very high amount of gp back in the dupe days. Not to mention that they made also tons of party hat sets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now most of the items above are banned, but there are still some accounts in the game left with hundreds of party hats and billions of gp. Some of them are sold for thousands and thousands of real life dollars though.

[t3hmauler]

dunno if this has been said yet but in 5th paragraph it says 112 million instead of 112 billion, before duke says yes thats right i said 112 billion.

[02marren]

If certain people in rs1 got so much money to begin with how did everyone first get gp... quests, monsters or scamming?

 

 

 

My question of such importance may get these guys questioning but who among us can say that we have lvl 99 smithing when the game has just started i'm handing this question onto you as you know so much about the game and ofcourse you being the first ever fan site. c ya for now.

[02marren]

I mean if people nowadays are so rich... which skill they start with?

[Stubru_Freak]

I mean if people nowadays are so rich... which skill they start with?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I started making bronze stuff, and doing quests/killing monsters

[GreenPixels]

Duke_Freedom, just for the record, I think you should take a look at this article over there on Runesource.co.uk, written in response to yours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I just read an article on the Runescape economy over on Tip.It and it's clear the author doesn't have the slightest clue on how a financially backed threaded economy works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I wrote up my own article which treats the RS economy as what it is, a threaded dynamic economy. Take a look."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The article is here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.runesource.co.uk/modules.php ... 102&page=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had a look at the article, the author of THAT is wrong. From one part of it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Smithing is pure profit

 

 

 

This is total baloney, as any high level smith knows. Smithing does not bring any money into the game, in fact smithing is a money sink, it destroys money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is totally wrong, smithing does not destroy/remove money in anyway. Made me LOL irl.

[wahoo]

interesting article, but why was fishing not mentioned? i can gather this can make a lot of money for the economy, yet not even mentioned, not even part of another process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not all fishermen could have sold their fish to other players to begin with, so therefore the ecomomy must have gained a fair bit from them selling their fish to npc's.

[Teaberry]

 

http://www.runesource.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=102&page=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I got little more to say on the article then that the person who wrote it needs to learn the difference between "Item Worth" and "Pure Cash". Furthermore I would recommend the author to take some courses on economics, as his article makes little sense... How does 300 yew longs a day relate to 1 steel plate? How can he say that the rares market is not part of the economy while the value of that market is huge?

 

 

 

That would be me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rares market:

 

 

 

I cannot create a rare. Neither would I (in my right mind) destroy one. I must buy one from another player if I wish for one. (I own a mask set and a santa)

 

 

 

Therefore there is no way for me to implement these items in any sort of economy, they are equivalent to cash as backing store. They do trade, but they aren't part of the economy since they don't generate or destroy any cash value. There's nothing I can do with my red mask which would create cash. I could merchant it, but then I'm merely manipulating already existing cash.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "How does 300 yew longs a day relate to 1 steel plate?" though. Care to elaborate?