Is it me or is Jagex fine with a messed economy...

[Bauke]

It's called Ruinscape for a reason.

 

Ah yes, Runescape's nickname which is predominantly used by the flock of complete utter morons that continuously fill the rants forum on the RSOF with the most [developmentally delayed]ed crap that humanity is capable to produce.

[Earth_Poet]

The Grand Exchange is meant to empower players to buy the items they need when they need them. Likewise, if players have made or obtained something that they don't need, the Grand Exchange can help them sell it to someone who does need it.

 

 

 

The GE should've meant empowerment, but when they placed the caps in there it became oppressive. I'll agree that it helped move "junk" that was hard to sell though.

 

 

 

* The Grand Exchange was consciously designed to emulate a real-life stock market in many ways. One of the most important principles is that an item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. This is why we chose to make it possible for GE prices to rise and fall, rather than simply fixing them at static amounts.

 

 

 

In some ways, it does emulate a real-life stock market....from the 19th century. But because the GE prices are imposed over ALL forms of trade, it makes it easier to manipulate prices, because there's no competition.

 

 

 

* If you do still want to try and make money by buying and selling on the Grand Exchange, that's fine as long as you're aware that you could also lose money. To minimise the risks, it's better to spread your purchases out across multiple items rather than putting all of your available funds into a large stock of a single item. Then if one of the items should crash, you won't lose everything.

 

 

 

Jagex doesn't seem to understand that this system does not encourage diversifying. It's safer if you have enough money to pump up the price of one item to obnoxious levels, because there's nobody that could stop you. Also, the price caps ironically serve as a safety net, so you know prices could only bottom out to a certain point on any given day until the next GE update.

 

 

 

***

 

I'm a bit disappointed on Jagex's approach, but if that's the way they feel, then it looks like I finally got my answer. As long as it's not costing them money in credit card fraud then it doesn't concern them.

 

 

 

GF merchants. I guess I'll go change my status to retired.

[muggiwhplar]

I propose we remove the trade limit then have a good month of fun or so till Jagex goes out of business. Then we all move on with our lives with fond memories of "that game we spent too much time on" :thumbup:

[Omali]

I propose we remove the trade limit then have a good month of fun or so till Jagex cuts Runescape and focuses on FunOrb and mechscape. Then we all move on with our lives with fond memories of "that game we spent too much time on" :thumbup:

 

 

 

Fixed. I wouldn't mind this alternative.

[3hitm4g3u]

I propose we remove the trade limit then have a good month of fun or so till Jagex cuts Runescape and focuses on FunOrb and mechscape. Then we all move on with our lives with fond memories of "that game we spent too much time on" :thumbup:

 

 

 

Fixed. I wouldn't mind this alternative.

 

 

 

Unfortunately I would and my opinion is of greater significance than yours.

[jijilentosmi]

I think that Jagex realises they can do very little to 'offically' stop merchanting clans without interfering with the general player's game play. Secretly they do things that 'happen' to negitivly impact these clans. :mrgreen:

[Omali]

I propose we remove the trade limit then have a good month of fun or so till Jagex cuts Runescape and focuses on FunOrb and mechscape. Then we all move on with our lives with fond memories of "that game we spent too much time on" :thumbup:

 

 

 

Fixed. I wouldn't mind this alternative.

 

 

 

Unfortunately I would and my opinion is of greater significance than yours.

 

 

 

The fact that I have a FunOrb fansite in my signature tells me I'm a less biased opinion than you are.

[3hitm4g3u]

I propose we remove the trade limit then have a good month of fun or so till Jagex cuts Runescape and focuses on FunOrb and mechscape. Then we all move on with our lives with fond memories of "that game we spent too much time on" :thumbup:

 

 

 

Fixed. I wouldn't mind this alternative.

 

 

 

Unfortunately I would and my opinion is of greater significance than yours.

 

 

 

The fact that I have a FunOrb fansite in my signature tells me I'm a less biased opinion than you are.

 

 

 

O.

[Karvinen]

Economy?In a computer game?

Welcome to the MMORPG genre of games.

 

 

 

In real life Grand Exchange would be illegal, as it is a cartel that sets prices.

[Deltaer]

Economy?In a computer game?

 

 

 

Is there scarcity of items (i.e. no unlimited amount of items) in Runescape? Yes.

 

 

 

Are there people playing the game? Yes.

 

 

 

There's your economy.

 

 

 

Welcome to the MMORPG genre of games.

 

 

 

In real life Grand Exchange would be illegal, as it is a cartel that sets prices.

 

 

 

I would equate the g/e to the stock exchange. The g/e (Jagex) does not set the prices. It's the market that does - supply and demand. i.e. the players set the prices. So no it would not be illegal.

[Karvinen]

 

I would equate the g/e to the stock exchange. The g/e (Jagex) does not set the prices. It's the market that does - supply and demand. i.e. the players set the prices. So no it would not be illegal.

I guess you believe every propaganda from Jagex.

 

 

 

The 5% range is price setting. Also, there is hardcoded floors and caps. If players set the prices, there would be no limits at all.

 

 

 

Since there is complete anonymity of traders in GE, the limits are totally unnecessary. Real world trading requires direct player-to-player trading. Even if there was no limits in GE, it would not be possible to e.g. sell a party hat for 1 gp to a gold buyer. The seller would get the correct amount of gold and the buyer would get nothing. You might have noticed that if you sell an item for min price, you sometimes receive more money. That's because the system always picks the best available offer.

 

 

 

The limits do not prevent players from losing too much money from price crashes, as the items will simply become unsellable until they reach the new equilibirium prices (or unbuyable in the case of skyrocketing).

[Omali]

Since there is complete anonymity of traders in GE, the limits are totally unnecessary. Real world trading requires direct player-to-player trading. Even if there was no limits in GE, it would not be possible to e.g. sell a party hat for 1 gp to a gold buyer. The seller would get the correct amount of gold and the buyer would get nothing. You might have noticed that if you sell an item for min price, you sometimes receive more money. That's because the system always picks the best available offer.

 

 

 

The limits do not prevent players from losing too much money from price crashes, as the items will simply become unsellable until they reach the new equilibirium prices (or unbuyable in the case of skyrocketing).

 

 

 

Karvinen deserves a medal. Removing the limits would indeed stop a lot of what price manipulation stands on (Not having any choice but to pay 60k around market). There would still be clan manipulation, but it would be more similar to the old system.

 

 

 

If Jagex were to remove the limits, there wouldn't be much sense in keeping the GE Database, unless you were to use it to show the average prices that the items were being sold for.

[jsboutin2]

I'm quite glad that they did make a difference between the "real" merrchanting and the price manipulating clans. A real merchanter analyses trends and invests in items. Manipulating clans just buy out any given item, then dump it.

[Deltaer]

 

I would equate the g/e to the stock exchange. The g/e (Jagex) does not set the prices. It's the market that does - supply and demand. i.e. the players set the prices. So no it would not be illegal.

I guess you believe every propaganda from Jagex.

 

 

 

The 5% range is price setting. Also, there is hardcoded floors and caps. If players set the prices, there would be no limits at all.

 

 

 

Since there is complete anonymity of traders in GE, the limits are totally unnecessary. Real world trading requires direct player-to-player trading. Even if there was no limits in GE, it would not be possible to e.g. sell a party hat for 1 gp to a gold buyer. The seller would get the correct amount of gold and the buyer would get nothing. You might have noticed that if you sell an item for min price, you sometimes receive more money. That's because the system always picks the best available offer.

 

 

 

The limits do not prevent players from losing too much money from price crashes, as the items will simply become unsellable until they reach the new equilibirium prices (or unbuyable in the case of skyrocketing).

 

 

 

Dude, the prices are decided by the market, which is indirectly decided by the players.. you seem like a smart guy, so I don't think I have to explain simple economics to you. It is not fixed by Jagex.

 

 

 

The 5% range is another story - it's there to prevent real world trading.. It's not hard for someone to find someone random obscure item that no one buys, and have someone buy it for millions.. and no it would not be possible to sell a phat for 1 gp if there were no range limits, but like I said, it wouldn't be hard to find and test some random item to see if someone is actually buying it.. once found, real world trades could be conducted easily.

 

 

 

And real world trading does not require direct person-to-person trading. Think financial intermediaries (e.g. banks) or... the stock exchange?

 

 

 

The g/e market price IS the exact market price. It is ALWAYS in equilibrium... notice sometimes when you buy an item for the MARKET PRICE before the prices are updated - you won't be able to buy it. That means that the equilibrium price has shifted up, and you will witness that in the next g/e price update. The ranges follow the market price.. you seem to be implying that the price of 300M that the blue phat is, that Jagex somehow fixed.. you are completely wrong there.

 

 

 

To conclude, the g/e is amazing.. It makes the economy run so much smoother.. sure the range limit might be annoying, but it's there for a reason. I'll live with it. I don't know how long the g/e has been around, as I've been away for four years, but if you've played the game before the g/e, you'll realize how efficient the economy now is as compared to then.

[ArtemisCatal]

It's called Ruinscape for a reason.

 

Ah yes, Runescape's nickname which is predominantly used by the flock of complete utter morons that continuously fill the rants forum on the RSOF with the most [developmentally delayed] crap that humanity is capable to produce.

 

 

 

 

 

1. I'm not sure some of them are human. I think they are proto-humans that have not yet exited their maturation chambers (sadly, some of them are also going to die in their maturation chambers, never to have exit out into the world)

 

 

 

2. Don't insult crap.

 

 

 

OT: I think Jagex will subtly manipulate things themselves. They will do something. But I don't think that should or will publicize it. If was them, I would get set some of my workers up with some regular accounts, infiltrate some of the clans as regular players, find of the main acounts and watch their actions. When it showed they were close to selling/selling, immediatly chop the price down to lower than the old price and watch everyone rip everyone else apart as they acuse everyone else of bailing early (oh, where's the popcorn).

 

 

 

Not only would it kill the merchants, it would also take money out of the economy, curbing inflation.

 

But then again, I have an evil streak, and think that subterfuge sometimes has its place. And this is one of those places. :twisted:

 

.

[AlexRose]

 

I would equate the g/e to the stock exchange. The g/e (Jagex) does not set the prices. It's the market that does - supply and demand. i.e. the players set the prices. So no it would not be illegal.

I guess you believe every propaganda from Jagex.

 

 

 

The 5% range is price setting. Also, there is hardcoded floors and caps. If players set the prices, there would be no limits at all.

 

 

 

Since there is complete anonymity of traders in GE, the limits are totally unnecessary. Real world trading requires direct player-to-player trading. Even if there was no limits in GE, it would not be possible to e.g. sell a party hat for 1 gp to a gold buyer. The seller would get the correct amount of gold and the buyer would get nothing. You might have noticed that if you sell an item for min price, you sometimes receive more money. That's because the system always picks the best available offer.

 

 

 

The limits do not prevent players from losing too much money from price crashes, as the items will simply become unsellable until they reach the new equilibirium prices (or unbuyable in the case of skyrocketing).

 

 

 

Since I'm on a computer with the tiniest keyboard in the universe, I'll make this brief. When I'm on a computer with a better keyboard, I might go into more detail.

 

 

 

 

 

This would work far, far better than the current system we have. In theory, this idea solves the problem of free trade, RWT, and manipulation. Our current system solves the second problem, but is weak to provide free trade and (almost as a direct consequence) prevention of player manipulated prices. In practice, manipulation would still be possible, but in a much more obvious, tedious, and safer way. With enough people, it would be possible to "set" a new price average, have it become the general standard, and make a profit from the old average you bought the item from. Such steps, however, would have to be small and subtle, and would require more timing and cordnation than the current system ( because prices update more or less instantly in the new system, everyone would more or less have to input their offers at the same time). Even better, manipulation in this matter would be limited to one "step", as you would have to re-buy your items after each attempt. 20% jumps in prices would not benefit the clan unless they made an item jump in one attempt, which would more or less be impossible.

 

 

 

The real problem, and possibly the only major problem, is that this system would allow RWT to occur. All the preparation required is to offer a stupendous price for something worthless, like two million GP for a boot, and then have a RWTer complete that offer. The transfer is very safe for the payer because if some insane person completes the deal, then he gets two million anyway, and the RWTer doesn't even need to give away his money! The easiest solution would be to simply to impose a 100% ceiling, or not allow offers above double the averaged price (so that extremely low valued items are not stuck at 1-2 GP, the rule would be changed for items under 30 GP to not allowing offers 15 GP above average). That doesn't solve the problem *completely*, but it's certainly a good start. I have other ideas too, but this keyboard is really annoying me, so I'll leave off with this, and a "for the love of god, do not ignore this problem Jagex". Night.

[Karvinen]

 

The real problem, and possibly the only major problem, is that this system would allow RWT to occur. All the preparation required is to offer a stupendous price for something worthless, like two million GP for a boot, and then have a RWTer complete that offer. The transfer is very safe for the payer because if some insane person completes the deal, then he gets two million anyway, and the RWTer doesn't even need to give away his money! The easiest solution would be to simply to impose a 100% ceiling, or not allow offers above double the averaged price (so that extremely low valued items are not stuck at 1-2 GP, the rule would be changed for items under 30 GP to not allowing offers 15 GP above average). That doesn't solve the problem *completely*, but it's certainly a good start. I have other ideas too, but this keyboard is really annoying me, so I'll leave off with this, and a "for the love of god, do not ignore this problem Jagex". Night.

 

 

 

There is a system that prevents trades from occurring if there is only few offers available. Otherwise the 5% limit would be more than enough to RWT.

 

 

 

If there was someone offering 2 millions for boots, he would get them for the real price and have the excess money refunded. The seller of the boots (who wanted 2 millions) would get nothing at all. RWTing attempt failed. It is not possible to choose the seller or buyer by price. Boots are a relatively common drop from monsters, so there is most likely thousands of them in GE.

 

 

 

The price limits are completely unnecessary.

[Silver_Corner]

What's wrong if Jagex did manually change prices?

 

Wouldn't that fix the problems?

 

 

 

Every day a Jagex member/members goes through each item, and changes prices manually if necessary? If the Mod assumes a Merchant clan is trying to beef up an item he/she can stop it rising or reverse it to mess up merchant clans.

 

 

 

Basically prices adjusted manually would likley be much more accurate than a system that does it automatically now. It can even be more than a 5% change in a day, if the Jagex mod believes such a change is in order. It would be benefitial to everyone would't it?

[purewcnub]

[hide=Big Image][/hide]

 

 

 

It's happening again.

 

No!!!! That is why I couldn't buy clay! Stupid merch clans... I can't get a single clay or even soft clay form the grand exchange -.-

[aspeeder]

All they would have to do to stop it would be to set prices. No fluctuation what-so-ever. Ends all price manipulations. If not selling at the G.E. the set price is the maximum allowed for the trade.

 

 

 

So you're proposing a start to communism in Runescape? Now that would be one messed up, inefficient market.

 

 

 

Edit: I would love to see that.. It would pretty much be chaos in RS.. the game would sink so fast.

 

In Soviet Russia, GE prices set you! :twss:

 

Well, if taking a not-so-extreme stance on merching means that more development time is spent trying to fix everything else that is messed up with the economy, this's fine with me.