The cost of Ancients: Water staffs vs 10% bonus

[Dirkmetal]

If there is already a thread like this one, please lock it because mine is better :D. Kidding, just kidding!, lock this one lol.

 

 

 

 

 

Rune prices:

 

Death, 306 gp

 

Blood, 356 gp (I think they have been merched, there old stable price was 356 gp before Aug 30 now they are 486, so we shall go with the old prices for fairness)

 

Water, 16 gp

 

Chaos, 112 gp (damn these get merched so much it's alomst impossible to get a good idea of their natural price)

 

 

 

Ice Barrage:

 

4 death = 1224 gp

 

2 blood = 712 gp

 

6 water = 96 gp

 

Total = 2032 gp

 

Max hit; 30-33

 

 

 

Cost for 30 damage (one target):

 

No staff, 2032

 

Water staff, 1936

 

Bonus staff, 1847

 

 

 

Cost for one damage with one target:

 

No staff, 67.73

 

Water staff, 64.53

 

Bonus staff, 61.57

 

 

 

Cost for one damage with nine targets:

 

No staff, 7.52

 

Water staff, 7.17

 

Bonus staff, 6.84

 

 

 

This translates into saving 96 gp with a water staff, and saving a handsome 185 gp with a staff that gives the 10% damage bonus.

 

 

 

Ice Burst:

 

4 chaos = 448 gp

 

2 death = 612 gp

 

4 water = 64 gp

 

Total = 1124 gp

 

Max hit; 22-24

 

 

 

Cost for 22 damage (one target):

 

No staff, 1124

 

Water staff, 1060

 

Bonus staff, 1030

 

 

 

Cost for one damage with one target:

 

No staff, 51.09

 

Water staff, 48.18

 

Bonus staff, 46.83

 

 

 

Cost for one damage with nine targets:

 

No staff, 5.67

 

Water staff, 5.35

 

Bonus staff, 5.20

 

 

 

This translates into saving 64 gp with a water staff, and saving 94 gp with a 10% damage bonus staff.

 

 

 

 

 

So now we can see that with the current price of water runes it is always smarter to choose a staff that boosts you max hit by 10%, over a water staff. Higher max hit, and it's cheaper in the long run, it's a win-win.

[paul191600]

I think most people will take the 10% over the 64 gp saved. Generally if you are spending that much already on runes, you want to hit hard, and dont care about a measly 64 gp per cast. Just imo.

[Bladewing]

I think most people will take the 10% over the 64 gp saved. Generally if you are spending that much already on runes, you want to hit hard, and dont care about a measly 64 gp per cast. Just imo.

 

If you had read the entire post, you would see that the 10% bonus saves more money, and is concluded to be better. :thumbup:

[Lap]

Nice! Digging the calculations. Thanks for the tip, I was wondering the same thing myself.

[Assume Nothing]

Little math fail there - You don't hit max all the time. Use hit spreads.

[xpx]

Another one of those ''simplify until it's simple enough to easily calculate'' topics, aye?

 

 

 

Magic experience goes differently from other combat styles, being base xp plus 2x damage done, so this renderes your calculations wrong already. Furthermore, hits are integers- you are proposing us to hit 1.1 when a normal staff would hit 1- this does not occour and thus you do not do 10% more damage(it's rather around 6% more damage). Also, you forgot to mention the difference in magic attack bonus.

 

 

 

By my calculations(yet again, these are calculations and have been simplified to some extent also) you are better off using 10% staff on 9 targets if your average hit is above 15, but you are always better off using water staff when casting against any single opponent(yet again, i can't add time/money into these because you'd be killing monsters faster with 10% staff).

[Karvinen]

 

Blood, 356 gp (I think they have been merched, there old stable price was 356 gp before Aug 30 now they are 486, so we shall go with the old prices for fairness)

 

 

 

 

I think that's because the infinite shop stocks were removed -> the supply decreased.

[Madouge]

 

Blood, 356 gp (I think they have been merched, there old stable price was 356 gp before Aug 30 now they are 486, so we shall go with the old prices for fairness)

 

 

 

 

I think that's because the infinite shop stocks were removed -> the supply decreased.

 

 

 

I doubt it because they cost like 500gp from shops, so if their price is 356gp I doubt the people supplying them are getting them from shops as that would mean a substantial loss.

[Unknown_Warrior]

Blood runes are required in high numbers for God spells, which are now all autocastable.

 

 

 

It's only logical.

[xpx]

Blood runes are required in high numbers for God spells, which are now all autocastable.

 

 

 

It's only logical.

 

There would be logic in your sentance only if the new autocast function would have added new dimensions of training to the spells(which it didn't, since the most useful training god spell was already autocastable and god spells are not cost efficient for training anyway). They are being merchanted......

[Dirkmetal]

Another one of those ''simplify until it's simple enough to easily calculate'' topics, aye?

 

 

 

Magic experience goes differently from other combat styles, being base xp plus 2x damage done, so this renderes your calculations wrong already. Furthermore, hits are integers- you are proposing us to hit 1.1 when a normal staff would hit 1- this does not occour and thus you do not do 10% more damage(it's rather around 6% more damage). Also, you forgot to mention the difference in magic attack bonus.

 

 

 

By my calculations(yet again, these are calculations and have been simplified to some extent also) you are better off using 10% staff on 9 targets if your average hit is above 15, but you are always better off using water staff when casting against any single opponent(yet again, i can't add time/money into these because you'd be killing monsters faster with 10% staff).

 

 

 

What? I was talking about GP, not experience, the only thing that you that I could have done, was to use hit averages instead of max.

 

 

 

What do you mean I forgot magic attack bonus? That only effects accuracy, and that is based random numbers making it extremely hard, maybe even impossible to calculate.

 

 

 

I'm curious tough, I would like to see what you ended up with when calculating if it's better or not, experience wise, to use a water or a 10% staff.

[xpx]

Another one of those ''simplify until it's simple enough to easily calculate'' topics, aye?

 

 

 

Magic experience goes differently from other combat styles, being base xp plus 2x damage done, so this renderes your calculations wrong already. Furthermore, hits are integers- you are proposing us to hit 1.1 when a normal staff would hit 1- this does not occour and thus you do not do 10% more damage(it's rather around 6% more damage). Also, you forgot to mention the difference in magic attack bonus.

 

 

 

By my calculations(yet again, these are calculations and have been simplified to some extent also) you are better off using 10% staff on 9 targets if your average hit is above 15, but you are always better off using water staff when casting against any single opponent(yet again, i can't add time/money into these because you'd be killing monsters faster with 10% staff).

 

 

 

What? I was talking about GP, not experience, the only thing that you that I could have done, was to use hit averages instead of max.

 

 

 

What do you mean I forgot magic attack bonus? That only effects accuracy, and that is based random numbers making it extremely hard, maybe even impossible to calculate.

 

 

 

I'm curious tough, I would like to see what you ended up with when calculating if it's better or not, experience wise, to use a water or a 10% staff.

 

Even when calculating by gp, doing 110% damage(which actually is more like 106% damage, due to the integer problem) does not in any way lead us to a barrage costing 91% what it would normally(the less you hit the less the bonus helps and visa versa). This really isn't as simple as you wrote it out to be and would require some thorough testing to bring about any meaningful results.