Here's what I think. The primary things that this case revolves around are when he got the split lip (before, during, or after his detainment), and if he done it himself (as a "haha, f#$k you" to the SEALs). Considering who it is we're talking about, and the fact that this IS 4 SEALs who are being charged, I think it happened in one of two ways; either he got it during capture, or he done it to himself after. Both are highly plausible, and should be looked in to. I just find it unlikely that a bunch of highly trained and disciplined military personnel from one of the most professional groups IN the military would lose restraint like that. The only two circumstances that would make that likely are if one of the people he killed was a friend/relative of one of the accused or if the accused were Blackwater.

 

As a general rule, it's a very bad idea to use fox as a news source. It's widely viewed by most people besides Republicans to be untrustworthy (so is CNN, but I digress). It will invariably end with the topic being derailed at some point, as you have already seen. If you want to link a news site, pick something else if you want to avoid this idiocy.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

 

There. We have now established that this terrorist does in fact have rights whether or not he killed people. Therefore the punch in the face was in fact a crime, and in order for the law to be upheld the SEALS must be tried for their crimes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that quote comes from the U.S. Constitution. Even though we're talking about an alleged crime perpetrated by Americans, it was not in America or even against another American. Also, military law does not always abide by the tenets set down in the Constitution. Does that give anyone the right to hit prisoners? Of course not. It simply means that one country's rule of law cannot be rigidly applied to the rest of the world. Imagine if someone tried to apply Saudi Arabia's laws in North America... :shock:

The law was broken though, so the charges are reasonable. I want to know exactly what happened that made one of the SEALs punch him in the face though. Naturally, Ahmed should be charged for what crimes he's done. If the law has been broken, then basically, those who have been indicted should face those charges as such.

 

1_man_army does bring up a good point though, was he punched BEFORE or AFTER the capture? There's no proof as to either side in this case, and one man's word vs another's is a tricky situation to defuse.

It's more than that, it also brings up the question of whether or not the punch was necessary if it was before he was captured. Did the SEALs just wail on him when he put his hands up, or was he struggling to get away when they hit him?

 

The case won't hold up unless there's more evidence than this.

 

Exactly. If it was an unnecessary punch, then yeah, a simple assault charge is in order, nothing more, nothing less. If the terrorist fought back, then by all means, no charges should be filed against the SEALs in the first place.

On the news show they said that the the punch was to control him, an elite seal group would not wail on a terriorist, there alot more disaplined than that.

 

Lol, why would an "elite seal group" punch a guy in the face to control him vs using actual techniques to make him not a threat (like pinning him on the ground)? The FOX news report doesn't give much context to what happened regarding the punch so who knows at this point.

The law was broken though, so the charges are reasonable. I want to know exactly what happened that made one of the SEALs punch him in the face though. Naturally, Ahmed should be charged for what crimes he's done. If the law has been broken, then basically, those who have been indicted should face those charges as such.

 

1_man_army does bring up a good point though, was he punched BEFORE or AFTER the capture? There's no proof as to either side in this case, and one man's word vs another's is a tricky situation to defuse.

It's more than that, it also brings up the question of whether or not the punch was necessary if it was before he was captured. Did the SEALs just wail on him when he put his hands up, or was he struggling to get away when they hit him?

 

The case won't hold up unless there's more evidence than this.

 

Exactly. If it was an unnecessary punch, then yeah, a simple assault charge is in order, nothing more, nothing less. If the terrorist fought back, then by all means, no charges should be filed against the SEALs in the first place.

On the news show they said that the the punch was to control him, an elite seal group would not wail on a terriorist, there alot more disaplined than that.

 

Lol, why would an "elite seal group" punch a guy in the face to control him vs using actual techniques to make him not a threat (like pinning him on the ground)? The FOX news report doesn't give much context to what happened regarding the punch so who knows at this point.

 

There was more to it if you watched the show.

 

 

There was more to it if you watched the show.

 

Do tell.

 

E:

cops hit people all the time when they are arresting people to get them under control for their safety and the polices safety.

 

No, not really. A cop will try to bring the person to the ground and pin them instead of being a moron like you seem to think and going in bar fight style. Or tasers or pepper spray. Sure in the rare case that you have some ultra unruly guy trying to seriously hurt them they might have to, but they don't do it as a first resort

That's just silly. But consider this is coming from FOX, though.

Why would the news place matter? News is news it has to be true or else it would be illegal.

 

Can't stay long so i havn't had time to look through the whole thread. If no one mentioned it, the U.S. has NO laws that force news agencies to actually tell the truth. There was a big scandal a while ago about how 2 fox reporters were fired because they refused to lie about how human growth hormone that was used to increase milk production in cows can be transfered to humans through milk. A lawsuit was filed and it came out that there is no law that prevents the "news" from telling lies.

 

This was a while ago though so not sure if they changed it. There were a few vids on youtube at the time but i can't find any of them right now, dumb dial up.

cops hit people all the time when they are arresting people to get them under control for their safety and the polices safety.

 

No, not really. A cop will try to bring the person to the ground and pin them instead of being a moron like you seem to think and going in bar fight style. Or tasers or pepper spray. Sure in the rare case that you have some ultra unruly guy trying to seriously hurt them they might have to, but they don't do it as a first resort

Where do you live? Because in my state cops will hit people all the time, watch cops sometime and you'll see what i mean, but its not like they beat the hell out of them or anything just a few hits to keep them under control, its safer than pulling a taser and far less damaging than a gun.

cops hit people all the time when they are arresting people to get them under control for their safety and the polices safety.

 

No, not really. A cop will try to bring the person to the ground and pin them instead of being a moron like you seem to think and going in bar fight style. Or tasers or pepper spray. Sure in the rare case that you have some ultra unruly guy trying to seriously hurt them they might have to, but they don't do it as a first resort

Where do you live? Because in my state cops will hit people all the time, watch cops sometime and you'll see what i mean, but its not like they beat the hell out of them or anything just a few hits to keep them under control, its safer than pulling a taser and far less damaging than a gun.

Actually they use an equal or slightly greater force than the person they are arresting. They don't use a tazer or a mace unless it's clear the guy isn't going to give up. If they don't have a weapon and they're attempting to evade arrest they can tackle them to the ground and beat the crap out of them 3 on 1 until they give up.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

 

There. We have now established that this terrorist does in fact have rights whether or not he killed people. Therefore the punch in the face was in fact a crime, and in order for the law to be upheld the SEALS must be tried for their crimes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that quote comes from the U.S. Constitution. Even though we're talking about an alleged crime perpetrated by Americans, it was not in America or even against another American. Also, military law does not always abide by the tenets set down in the Constitution. Does that give anyone the right to hit prisoners? Of course not. It simply means that one country's rule of law cannot be rigidly applied to the rest of the world. Imagine if someone tried to apply Saudi Arabia's laws in North America... :shock:

That's what the "all men" part is for.

 

Ok. So, what you're saying is, a bunch of old guy's opinions affect people in OTHER countries? ok, go for it. See how far that gets you.

 

 

Ok. So, what you're saying is, a bunch of old guy's opinions affect people in OTHER countries? ok, go for it. See how far that gets you.

 

Pretty sure he was meaning that since the SEALs were American they should have acted by the Constitution and where it states

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

 

E: Upon re-reading his post I'm not so sure anymore

Ok. So, what you're saying is, a bunch of old guy's opinions affect people in OTHER countries? ok, go for it. See how far that gets you.

 

Pretty sure he was meaning that since the SEALs were American they should have acted by the Constitution and where it states

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

 

E: Upon re-reading his post I'm not so sure anymore

 

All men are created equal, so dont kill others drag them in the street and hang there dead bodies on a public bridge, I think you deserve more than just a smack in the face...

They should face assault charges if, you know, they're guilty of assault. We'll know if they're guilty of assault if they're taken to court, and by the court's legal analysis. That's the beauty of the rule of law, and why America's justice system, as flawed as it is, is still far more wonderful and fair than many around the world. I'm sorry that many of you people are willing to throw the rule of law out based on the people, and who you think are the "worst of the worst," but that's not how a fair justice system works. You commit a crime, you are charged with said crime, and you are given your time in court. Or at least, that's how it's supposed to work. Given that many people in Guantanamo are still not given their time in court and might not ever be given it, this doesn't always apply, but that's how it works.

 

I'm sorry that because you think they did something horrible that you believe they should be treated differently in the rule of law, and it's kind of pathetic. I guess we should go back to the days of Kings and Queens.

 

Courts are corrupt, dear. You honestly believe that Judicial Officials are humble and honorable? Fat chance. Post at the top of page 2 proves it. Whoever sentenced him is a traitor to the USA and a traitor to mankind.

 

 

Courts are corrupt, dear. You honestly believe that Judicial Officials are humble and honorable? Fat chance. Post at the top of page 2 proves it. Whoever sentenced him is a traitor to the USA and a traitor to mankind.

 

 

Someone murdered someone else and is now in jail? Colour me shocked. Shocked!

Rocco dont say anything in this thread, ever, from this point forward.

 

Please.

 

Ridiculous, a Navy SEAL, freshed him up. What's wrong ?

 

He broke the law ? Certain people are given certain responsibilities to break the law. The ones that we have to rely on, to do what we cant.

Rocco dont say anything in this thread, ever, from this point forward.

 

Please.

 

Ridiculous, a Navy SEAL, freshed him up. What's wrong ?

 

He broke the law ? Certain people are given certain responsibilities to break the law. The ones that we have to rely on, to do what we cant.

I don't know if I would agree that anyone is given a responsibility to break the law.

 

That being said, certain groups like the military, and in particular specialist groups like the Navy SEALs or British SAS, certainly exist to fill a role in the world that the majority of us do not, and hopefully will never have to, understand. The existence of these groups help, in no small way, to protect those of us who cannot, or will not, fight and allows the world as we know it continue to function.

 

Just imagine what would happen if we did not have elite, specially trained units ready to protect the very freedoms we take for granted (such as debating/arguing about this kind of thing at all). Personally, I'm glad they're out there fighting to protect my, admittedly slothful, way of life.

Ok. So, what you're saying is, a bunch of old guy's opinions affect people in OTHER countries? ok, go for it. See how far that gets you.

 

Pretty sure he was meaning that since the SEALs were American they should have acted by the Constitution and where it states

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

 

E: Upon re-reading his post I'm not so sure anymore

 

All men are created equal, so dont kill others drag them in the street and hang there dead bodies on a public bridge, I think you deserve more than just a smack in the face...

 

Support

Rocco dont say anything in this thread, ever, from this point forward.

 

Please.

 

Ridiculous, a Navy SEAL, freshed him up. What's wrong ?

 

He broke the law ? Certain people are given certain responsibilities to break the law. The ones that we have to rely on, to do what we cant.

Calm down man. You think that the US Navy SEALS want to be associated with abusing prisoners? That's how these organizations recruit young kids into their ranks.

 

You seem to be forgetting that either way this terrorist fellow will probably get life in prison or the death penalty. It isn't like he's getting off because he got punched in the face. The fact is, the Navy SEALS broke the law, and they have to pay for it. That's the way this country works. The fact that it was a terrorist means nothing. They committed assault, then denied it, so they must be punished.

 

Finally. Yes. Someone who can think logically

Rocco dont say anything in this thread, ever, from this point forward.

 

Please.

 

Ridiculous, a Navy SEAL, freshed him up. What's wrong ?

 

He broke the law ? Certain people are given certain responsibilities to break the law. The ones that we have to rely on, to do what we cant.

Calm down man. You think that the US Navy SEALS want to be associated with abusing prisoners? That's how these organizations recruit young kids into their ranks.

 

You seem to be forgetting that either way this terrorist fellow will probably get life in prison or the death penalty. It isn't like he's getting off because he got punched in the face. The fact is, the Navy SEALS broke the law, and they have to pay for it. That's the way this country works. The fact that it was a terrorist means nothing. They committed assault, then denied it, so they must be punished.

 

You still do not understand do you? Navy Seals and all other law enforcement and military services do what they must do to protect their homeland and citizens, if it means that a cop has to hit someone to keep them and the suspect safe, its what they have to do. They have a different law then you and me, and when an elite navy seal soldier has to hit a terriorist then thats what they must do, and to charge them is ridioulus they got a most wanted terriorist and now there being treated like criminals instaed of heros.

Rocco dont say anything in this thread, ever, from this point forward.

 

Please.

 

Ridiculous, a Navy SEAL, freshed him up. What's wrong ?

 

He broke the law ? Certain people are given certain responsibilities to break the law. The ones that we have to rely on, to do what we cant.

Calm down man. You think that the US Navy SEALS want to be associated with abusing prisoners? That's how these organizations recruit young kids into their ranks.

 

You seem to be forgetting that either way this terrorist fellow will probably get life in prison or the death penalty. It isn't like he's getting off because he got punched in the face. The fact is, the Navy SEALS broke the law, and they have to pay for it. That's the way this country works. The fact that it was a terrorist means nothing. They committed assault, then denied it, so they must be punished.

 

Finally. Yes. Someone who can think logically

Well, besides that, how can we go around talking about freedom and rights and such, and then allow our own people to break laws? It just doesn't make sense.

 

Don't be so [bleep]ing [developmentally delayed]ed. That terrorist would have gladly killed those SEALS, and then went home and bragged. That terrorist has shown his true colors, oh noes he got punched in the face. Well I'd do a lot worse to him.

Don't be so [bleep]ing [developmentally delayed]ed. That terrorist would have gladly killed those SEALS, and then went home and bragged. That terrorist has shown his true colors, oh noes he got punched in the face. Well I'd do a lot worse to him.

 

Less of the flaming please. Disagreeing is fine, but there's no need for the language.

 

In any case, I don't see the problem with trying this guy. If what he did was necessary then he'll be acquitted, and if not then he deserves to be punished.

...The fact is, the Navy SEALS broke the law, and they have to pay for it...They committed assault, then denied it, so they must be punished.

Actually, right now all there is is an accusation. There's no proof that anyone actually hit this man. All we have to go on is a minor injury, that could have easily been self-inflicted, while, possibly, in custody.

 

That's the way this country works.

Country, perhaps; but we're dealing with the military here. Soldiers, and admittedly sometimes their prisoners, are not always afforded the same judicial rights as civilians.

And for your second point, I don't really know what to say, except that they are supposed to be afforded judicial rights like everyone else.

Don't misunderstand, military personnel have judicial rights, it's just that military judicial rights and civilian judicial rights are not always the same. If they were then there would be no need for Military Police, the Army's Criminal Investigation Command or the Judge Advocate General's Corps and all military crimes could be tried in civilian courts.

 

Saru, that's just stupid. What he would have done has done has no bearing on the issue.

It should have all the care in the world. You don't punish innocent people for punishing guilty people. By that stupid logic, all jail guards and judges and juries should be arrest for "wrongly" imprisoning a poor murderer.

 

Saru, that's just stupid. What he would have done has done has no bearing on the issue.

It should have all the care in the world. You don't punish innocent people for punishing guilty people. By that stupid logic, all jail guards and judges and juries should be arrest for "wrongly" imprisoning a poor murderer.

No. That's not what I'm saying at all.

 

Those Navy SEALS aren't a jury. They have no right to punish people. That man will be punished (likely with death or a long sentence) by a proper judge and a proper jury.

Anybody can punish him. Everybody but Al-Queda members were his enemies anyway.

Saru, that's just stupid. What he would have done has done has no bearing on the issue.

It should have all the care in the world. You don't punish innocent people for punishing guilty people. By that stupid logic, all jail guards and judges and juries should be arrest for "wrongly" imprisoning a poor murderer.

No. That's not what I'm saying at all.

 

Those Navy SEALS aren't a jury. They have no right to punish people. That man will be punished (likely with death or a long sentence) by a proper judge and a proper jury.

 

You clearly do not know much about the way military and law enforcment work do you? If someone is acting up, fighting you, or resisting arrest you have the right to do what you need to do. They did not hit him b/c they where punishing him they were restraining him. Both completely different.