Hegemony Argument Thread

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

The game died as soon as everyone entered space in my opinion.

We all just went tech crazy and I got banned for something.

[Seraphi]

Probably the continuous stream of nazi references, but who can say.

 

Hegemony was fun in space until all combat stopped. There were more resources than anybody would ever need, so nobody bothered anybody else. If we were ever going to redo an Earth-progress-to-Space hegemony, we need stricter limits which forced people into combat or discussion.

[archimage_a]

I think the game just needs to be more punishing to players, rather than the current 'You are attacked by Pirates' 'I deploy my whole fleet to destroy the pirates'...or 'One of your colonies Declares Independance', 'I virus bomb it and post more guards to my other colonies'

There needs to be more of a counter reaction.

And technology like 'I create a cure for aids' needs to be realised, as does 'I create a 99.9% effective ICBM shield'. The chances of suceeding in anything short of fifty years are astronomical...after all it is only now that we are beginning to see 'Star Wars' type defences, and only against a small nuclear strike, thats 30 years on....As for missile defences, even there is rarely more than 60% efficent....and that has been going on for over 60 years.

 

So I think the game needs to be less about 'I create an uber defence' and more about 'I create an uber weapon and start devestating your country, what are you going to do about it!'

But then, I think we should play in space from the start...so/...

[Retech]

We could make spaceships expensive, so one strategy might be conquer all of Earth, while another might be focusing economic resources on spaceships, to migrate to the stars.

[The_Mather1]

I never enjoy PvP, we need more PvE in the next one, You should roll for a random event each year/decade/two decades in the next one, Archi.

[The_Mather1]

Tomorrow I think I'll start Hegemony V3:

I'll mod (and not play at all (the dice rule NPCs).

I'll decide between oposing theories or roll for wether or not individual theories prove true..

It'll start as 01.01.2010 and progress at a rate of 1:365.25 (one year per day).

When we get into deep-space then most planets will be uninhabbitable.

There will be no existing sentient life in the Milkyway, but there might be in other galaxies (depending on the dice).

Annexing will take one year, but it will only have a 25% success rate, 50% if you have a lot in common and 75% if you are lucky enough to have the annexed country ask you.

No nuclear, chemical or biological weapons will be allowed on Earth and for other planets decontamination will take from 1-10 years depending on what's used.

All products made by ones own nation will cost only 10% of the global price.

Global warming will not start as irreversible.

You start as humans, but gene-modification will be accepted to any degree.

 

I will not do this if it the majority of you are opposed.

 

Also if this proceedes into starting then please keep track of your economy/population like I did (and keep a word/notebook document of your techs).

[Retech]

For the products made, 10% of global price...doesn't that mean that you could make something at 10% and sell to someone else who can't make it for 20%?

 

 

 

Also, your rules for budget?

[The_Mather1]

I ment that there for example is a tank, worth 1,000,000$ on the international market, if those tanks are made by your own country then you only have to pay 100,000$ for them, while others pay the full price.

 

And for budget I ment using an Excell sheet (like I did) that shows population, avarage income, tax rate, other national incomes, total income, and the final "leftovers" you get when calculating it. You just update the population daily, so that the rest updates too, then you post it there (in hide tags).

 

Expendables/"leftovers" should be around 5-10% depending on exactly what the majority wants.

[Seraphi]

There needs to be some measure of production capacity.

[The_Mather1]

I shall attempt to make that as well, I was thinking like first researching different countries production capacity then decide twenty set rates and decide between them depending on roll for mines and such and factory price for factories, technology would have a decided percentage boost, then you could add it to an Excell sheet to keep track of it.

[Seraphi]

Sounds too luck based.

 

I think I'll pass. It's too early for another hegemony.

[Seraphi]

Double post somehow.

[The_Mather1]

Luck based, yes, but so does the real world appear, we have no way to know without trying (or simulaying) and hope.

 

But is that vote pro, con or neutral?

[archimage_a]

Yeah, I will pass too(I think that means nay)

 

Its too early

Dice to decide what NPCs do when its a matter like 'Do you want to give up all power and join me?' 'Rolls a 20' 'Hey, look, Iran annexs the USA', is just silly.

Dice to decide fundermental theories is pretty silly too, as I argued before, you could make up a new thing, say it cured everything ever as well as created money out of thin air and bam, you roll a 20 and you have a gamebreakium.

Uninabitable planets will, 99% of the time, become habitable given the new 'Genetic Theory' which states that Swiss people can change anything they touch's genetic code at will, based on a 20 he got earlier.

If we are going to expand into the milky way then commonsense dictates we will find life...even if it is long dead and we just find ruins...I think we should discover some kind of barrier 20 or 30 lightyears out and not be able to go further than that. Maybe one or two NPC races, but no more than that.

Annexing taking one year is ridiculous....I start annexing 108 countries. I get 25, I start annexing 83, I get 20, I start annexing 63, I get 15...And so on and so forth....And you would annex Russia, America, Canada, Britian, France, Germany, Poland, Japan, China....9 of the first 25, and you would control most of the planet.

No WMDs is silly, I think it should just be made incredibly difficult to make them...IE if you want to produce a Nuclear Weapon you either have to get sanctioned by the UN or you need to do it in secret, spending no more than 100 million a year on a 20 billion project...Once you had them it would be moderately difficult to make more of them....

Global warming should just be got rid of, switching over to green everything would crash the global economy. Maybe if it started in 2040, so there was 30 years to reverse global warming and to ban nuclear weapons and so on and so forth.

 

 

Economics, I think that there should be a .01% 'anything you like' budget, up to 10% 'We are going to have to raise taxes' budget and a 0.001% 'unaccountable' budget. Then an up 50% 'Loan agreement'.

Which would break down thusly:

United States:

GDP: 14,290,000,000,000

1,290,000,000 'spare'

142,900,000,000 'we need more taxes'

142,900,000 'unaccountable'

7,145,000,000,000 'loan'

 

I think we should wipe the slate clean as to national debt and trade agreements, since it would be in 2040. Then budgets are nominalised(Ie all budgets of player countries are brought within half a trillion of 8 trillion a year, all NPC countries would get 10% of the Average GDP for player countries). GDP growth depends on trade agreements you have with people...0.1% for a generic trade agreement and 0.5% per country you have a specific trade agreement with(Say Food for Oil or something). Up to a max of 3%. For every 3% you have on 'More Taxes' you lose 1% GDP. If you have the full 10% you lose an additonal 1%(So 4%).

If you annex a country you take a 50% GDP hit to the annexed country(So its GDP is half what it was) and add it to your country....also all trade agreements you had with that country no longer generate GDP.

If you build a colony, it will cost you .5% of your GDP for the first 30 years and then generate .5% per year(up to 5% per year, on top of the 3%, so max is 8%) until it declares independence...which might be 10 years later or 200 years later.

That is as complicated as the economy gets...No getting rid of money, no new economic policy, no special deals or whatever... If you create some awesome new thing and have a monopoly on the thing then you can sign specific trade agreements for 0.5%...

 

Costs should be semi-realistic. Since I am most capable in this field I will work that out. If you think you have some special advantage then you can pm me with it and I will factor it, but things will cost at least 50% of my estimate.

 

Anywho, this is all when and if we decide to start another game, but basically the rules would need to be like that...Rigid but allows for customisable play.

[Retech]

My problem is with the nominalised budget part. It gives a large advantage to countries with lots of land, since there's nothing to differenciate...Japan and South Africa except for the fact that South Africa suddenly becomes immensely rich, and still has lots of land.

 

Or you could start play as Luxembourg, and have a huge army of tanks, where everyone in the country has a tank.

 

"Hey Billy, can I borrow your tank today? Mine ran out of artillery shells."

"Sure, do you want to borrow my M4 Sherman or my Type 54?"

[The_Mather1]

Archi, I will moderate so that nothing to unrealistic happens, Iran would never annex USA, theories would have to be plausible and the best thing you can find is a large vein of iridium.

[archimage_a]

Then what would you suggest to combat that? If we made it dependant on territory then small countries would be stuffed from the start...like Britian and Japan. If we made it dependant on population then India and China would streak ahead of countries like France, America, Canada...

If we used present day figures then countries like Japan, which has such a high GDP because America has always protected it, get an unfair advantage when it keeps a high GDP and develops an army and such.

If we invented new figures based on resources then the whole thing gets over complicated.

 

What we could do is consolidate, or break up, nations to form player confederacies....So they all had similar sizes and populations and GDPs...

[Retech]

GDP could be based on the average of a country's per capita income and the world's per capita income.

 

 

 

Or that idea of consolidation, you could choose a large country or a union of smaller countries. The Baltic States, Large Asian (Uzbekistan, Mongolia, etc), South-East Asian.

[archimage_a]

Archi, I will moderate so that nothing to unrealistic happens, Iran would never annex USA, theories would have to be plausible and the best thing you can find is a large vein of iridium.

 

Iridium is actually a real metal...not some wonder material Retech Invented...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium

 

I doubt your interpretation on plausible. You suggested a theory which stated that everything light be composed on photons and it might be possible to destablise these photons to beam them across space time. Which has absolutely no grounding in anything...so plausibility doesn't come into it.

 

If you are going to go around stopping countries from annexing other countries then the game will just be 'the world according to Mather'....

 

 

I think consolidation or just dumping Earth and doing it on a different planet, would be the better courses of action.

[Retech]

Dumping Earth and changing some game mechanics would probaly be best. It would eliminate the arguments about countries, for example the recent thing about how Japan only exists because of the United States. No one can agree on those things, so why not just go with a different world entirely?

 

My thinking is that in the new world, different types of WMDs would be plausible, so we could invent a game mechanic on it, rather than have the real world dictate that.

 

 

I invented Iridium monopole. :P

[Seraphi]

But then the game will just be a uniform mass of countries which have the exact same population and size, but different technology based on who owns it.

 

It's a catch 22. We go off Earth, everything is same-y and boring. We do it on Earth, everything is too unbalanced.

[archimage_a]

Well ideally I would generate a new map, play a game of civ or something to find out what countries exist, and then draw lots as to who gets what....Then we can just invent a history to go with it.

 

If people really do all go for the same thing then fine...It will be easy to create a race or whatever which is strong against their strengths and against their weaknesses:

You race is able to mind control and decay life?

Fine, my race is silicon based, so decaying me makes me grow larger(Silicon Crystals) and I am immune to your mind control.

 

Or I could have an island nation or a nation surrounded by mountains or anything really... Having a race which was able to mind control and decay life, on an island would be near enough pointless, or if I was silicon based it would be fairly pointless, since Silicon is(checks) much heavier than carbon, so shipping would have to be larger.

So long as people were slightly creative the game would work well...

 

As to the 'same size, same pop' and everything... I don't have a major problem in being a small country with a small population, I just don't want to be screwed because of it. Because we put such a high emphasis on GDP we are stuffed, if we had a more robust system then fine, but it seems everything is based on this one thing...so unless it is similar for everyone, the smaller GDP nations are stuffed and the larger GDP nations are overburderned...IE they have more money (than sense) than they can spend.

For example, there is no point in having a decent education system because you can just throw money at research projects...There is no point in developing healthcare because you can just throw money at a research project to cure a virus....there is no point in having a large army because you can just throw money and get a large army...

GDP just sucks all creativity out of the game...and when someone tries to be creative people freak out because 'How can this small country with a small GDP be able to challange us!!!!!!'

GDP is all very well, but there needs to be more than just GDP....

[The_Mather1]

Archi, I will moderate so that nothing to unrealistic happens, Iran would never annex USA, theories would have to be plausible and the best thing you can find is a large vein of iridium.

 

Iridium is actually a real metal...not some wonder material Retech Invented...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium

 

I doubt your interpretation on plausible. You suggested a theory which stated that everything light be composed on photons and it might be possible to destablise these photons to beam them across space time. Which has absolutely no grounding in anything...so plausibility doesn't come into it.

 

If you are going to go around stopping countries from annexing other countries then the game will just be 'the world according to Mather'....

 

 

I think consolidation or just dumping Earth and doing it on a different planet, would be the better courses of action.

I know, iridium is the world's rarest element.

 

My theori was based on that everything is indierectly made up from photons and by forcing something to be squeezed as small as a photon in witdth it would be temporarely decomposed into light. You won't know what I think plausible until you try me.

 

I'm not going to stop people from annexing others, just limit who they can annex.

 

I'm going with Earth. But people can start as coalitions the size of the US if they want, like I did with No-Sw-De last hegemony.

[The_Mather1]

I just found a large map and divided it into 11 pieces, if we say they all have the same ammount of people, the same avarage income and all current technology then it would be fair.

[a_bert]

Starways Congress

 

Hegemony set in space. BUT WAIT!

 

Cons;

huge weapons are "inevitable"

ludicrous planets in the middle of nowhere are "inevitable" which can then "secretly reveal" an entire fleet in your main planet underground train system

harder to keep track of stuff

have to think up new weird technologies to stay in the "inevitable" "endgame"

 

Pros;

it's space

it's more sandbox than Earth

nothing is pre-determined

we're not asshats!

 

Fact is, I've tried so hard to enjoy the RPing. 2025 is good, Paul is doing a great job, but I just find it a bit slow, though I know I turn around in circles all the time. Nothing matches the glory of early Hegemony. And another Earth hegemony would be too constrained, there isn't enough room for the people who want to do their own thing to do their own thing. Now obviously, setting Hegemony in the future opens the doors for loads of ludicrous techs/weapons/bizarre stuff but none of us want any [cabbage] and cause I really don't want any [cabbage] this won't be an issue.

 

We can either work this on a regimented tech scale, i.e. X years produces weapon of Y efficiency or we can be old school and just be like "i've been teching this for ages and its pretty good", which I think is better and more exciting, cause who knows what happens next?

 

Mapwise, my plan was to lift a map from the Starport;Galactic Empires universe, as well as the bonuses etc of the different planet regions on that. (God damn I miss SGE, wish I was good at it)

 

Everyone starts even, obviously, and it's your own noose which determines if you progress/degress. Also, unless it's really wanted, no fricken' aliens.

 

Obviously there's a lot to work out, but c'mon, hegemony is winmony. What do you think :3