institutionalize real world trading?

[snowager286]

Now, I have a feeling that this will be somewhat controversial. However, give me a chance to explain where I'm coming from and see what you think.

 

This system is fairly simple, you enable purchase of in game time cards. These in game time cards can be sold by the person who bought for real money for gold. Enabling the person who spent money to exchange his cash for GP, and the buyer to pay for his membership with GP, a perfectly mutual relationship. What would make this crazy system function? well, This system was tried with great success in EVE online in the form of "concord pilots licences" or PLEX cards. Such a system can establish a moderately stable GP <--> money exchange rate, which MIGHT do something to stabilize the RS economy. Additionally, it allows for F2P players who don't feel like spending their own money to still be able to enjoy the members part of the game. However, it is VITAL to understand that while such a system functions well in a game like EVE there is no telling how it would work in RS.

 

Would such a system function in a game like Runescape? Is it even acceptable? Discuss.

 

*Note: I feel that for such a system to work in any system it should not have a firmly established rate created by the game company. excepting maybe an initial base rate.

[KISS]

Sorry what?

[sees_all1]

This has happened in other games, but one side effect of having real money exchange hands is - believe it or not - prostitution.

There's some post on the internet about how some guy had people pay him game currency in exchange for some random girl to cyber with them. The pimp would then take the game currency, sell it to RWTer's for cash, and use some of it to pay the random girl off. I know that's one example, and that I haven't provided a source at all, but believe me - when real world currencies start changing hands, the game no longer becomes a game and becomes a business scam.

 

Also, this would violate the ToS - "your" character, "your" bank, "your" experience all remain property of Jagex, you can't legally sell something you don't own.

[snowager286]

This has happened in other games, but one side effect of having real money exchange hands is - believe it or not - prostitution.

There's some post on the internet about how some guy had people pay him game currency in exchange for some random girl to cyber with them. The pimp would then take the game currency, sell it to RWTer's for cash, and use some of it to pay the random girl off. I know that's one example, and that I haven't provided a source at all, but believe me - when real world currencies start changing hands, the game no longer becomes a game and becomes a business scam.

 

Also, this would violate the ToS - "your" character, "your" bank, "your" experience all remain property of Jagex, you can't legally sell something you don't own.

 

Prostitution? O_o thats one of the most random things I've ever heard, and completely pointless, cybering has been around in RS since I played and back then they just used GP. Also, I don't see how its a "business scam" what happens in a scenario are two things, A) people who had NOT been paying the P2P game beforehand, start so essential jagex gets more players to pay B) people who had been paying start just buying using Ingame money.

 

So elaborate on your "business scam" idea a little.

[DemonicSushi]

This has happened in other games, but one side effect of having real money exchange hands is - believe it or not - prostitution.

There's some post on the internet about how some guy had people pay him game currency in exchange for some random girl to cyber with them. The pimp would then take the game currency, sell it to RWTer's for cash, and use some of it to pay the random girl off. I know that's one example, and that I haven't provided a source at all, but believe me - when real world currencies start changing hands, the game no longer becomes a game and becomes a business scam.

 

Also, this would violate the ToS - "your" character, "your" bank, "your" experience all remain property of Jagex, you can't legally sell something you don't own.

 

Prostitution? O_o thats one of the most random things I've ever heard, and completely pointless, cybering has been around in RS since I played and back then they just used GP. Also, I don't see how its a "business scam" what happens in a scenario are two things, A) people who had NOT been paying the P2P game beforehand, start so essential jagex gets more players to pay B) people who had been paying start just buying using Ingame money.

 

So elaborate on your "business scam" idea a little.

 

Sees all is an F2P so his views about Runescape are much more different :)

Prostitution is the LEAST of our worries about runescape... let the guy [bleep] all he wants.

[K4ylan]

So, I'm not exactly understanding you..

 

 

Are you saying that you want to actually promote Real-World Trading? Like trading 5M for a month of membership, or something along the lines?

If that is the case then....hell to the no. Bad bad bad bad bad. They would lose countless amounts of money. Of course their number one priority is the players, but honestly, they are by no means stupid.

 

If this wasn't what you meant, just disregard the comment.

[Nurse_Renard]

[hide]

This has happened in other games, but one side effect of having real money exchange hands is - believe it or not - prostitution.

There's some post on the internet about how some guy had people pay him game currency in exchange for some random girl to cyber with them. The pimp would then take the game currency, sell it to RWTer's for cash, and use some of it to pay the random girl off. I know that's one example, and that I haven't provided a source at all, but believe me - when real world currencies start changing hands, the game no longer becomes a game and becomes a business scam.

 

Also, this would violate the ToS - "your" character, "your" bank, "your" experience all remain property of Jagex, you can't legally sell something you don't own.

 

Prostitution? O_o thats one of the most random things I've ever heard, and completely pointless, cybering has been around in RS since I played and back then they just used GP. Also, I don't see how its a "business scam" what happens in a scenario are two things, A) people who had NOT been paying the P2P game beforehand, start so essential jagex gets more players to pay B) people who had been paying start just buying using Ingame money.

 

So elaborate on your "business scam" idea a little.

[/hide]

 

Sees all is an F2P so his views about Runescape are much more different :)

Prostitution is the LEAST of our worries about runescape... let the guy [bleep] all he wants.

 

Um, I don't really think if you're paying or not should really effect your views on runescape.

[hide] To be honest, I still feel like you absolutley despise F2P and think they should all go burn in hell or summat.[/hide]

 

Anyhoo, on topic, I'm not terribly sure it's a good idea, but honestly, I'm re-reading it, and I still really can't make much sense of it.

[quelmotz]

Ridiculous idea. You're trying to legalise real-world trading?

 

Nobody should have an in-game advantage because they are rich. After all of Jagex's efforts to counter RWT, do you really think they'll just say "hey, let's just legalise it anyway!" Fat chance.

[Guest jrhairychest]

Ridiculous idea. You're trying to legalise real-world trading?

 

Nobody should have an in-game advantage because they are rich. After all of Jagex's efforts to counter RWT, do you really think they'll just say "hey, let's just legalise it anyway!" Fat chance.

 

Think this is a world first for the record books but I agree with Quelmotz on this issue. We'd be back to square one again with RWT.

[K4ylan]

Not being able to gain an unfair advantage with real world money is the thing that sets Runescape apart from other games. Personally, I don't want to spend $40 on a whip.

[Kiriyama]

Ridiculous idea. You're trying to legalise real-world trading?

 

Nobody should have an in-game advantage because they are rich. After all of Jagex's efforts to counter RWT, do you really think they'll just say "hey, let's just legalise it anyway!" Fat chance.

 

Think this is a world first for the record books but I agree with Quelmotz on this issue. We'd be back to square one again with RWT.

 

This is a first too, I actually agree with Jr here.

 

Though we wouldn't exactly be back at square one, Jagex would handle transactions. The economy would go to [cabbage] however.

[Erewhon2]

Ridiculous idea. You're trying to legalise real-world trading?

 

Nobody should have an in-game advantage because they are rich. After all of Jagex's efforts to counter RWT, do you really think they'll just say "hey, let's just legalise it anyway!" Fat chance.

 

Think this is a world first for the record books but I agree with Quelmotz on this issue. We'd be back to square one again with RWT.

 

This is a first too, I actually agree with Jr here.

 

Though we wouldn't exactly be back at square one, Jagex would handle transactions. The economy would go to [cabbage] however.

Hey people.......don't pass out......I agree with you too lol. :thumbsup: There has been so much effort by Jagex to get rid of the threats RWT brought to the game, it should not be considered in any size shape or form

[Hedgehog]

A few things that come to mind when I think of real-world trading are that you start working in real life over a game, you begin to take the game more seriously, and you lose the essence of the game. While these are fairly similar, and often identical, they can be quite different:

 

First of all, if someone wants to be rich on Runescape, they can simply work hard, killing green dragons, picking flax, or doing some other profitable activity. These are all fine and dandy because they require some work. You have to put effort into Runescape to reap the rewards of Runescape. The second you stop wanting to put the effort into Runescape is the very second where you start looking for easier ways. Going at the exchange rate of 1m gp = $5, you can make money on Runescape a lot easier if you buy it with cash, even if you work at minimum wage. If you make $7.50 an hour, you could, in theory, 'earn' 1.5m per hour, much higher than if you played Runescape normally. A lot of players would opt for this quicker option and start working to play Runescape. If you don't believe that people won't take this easy path, take a look at Runescape's history. Players will always jump on the easy way out. A few examples off the top of my head are the introduction of The Living Rock Caverns, which allowed miners to easily semi-afk, Choking Ivy, which allowed woodcutters to power through the xp without banking or dropping, and one final example is the release of Soul Wars, which, of course, gave players the ability to get combat experience without doing very much work (this has since been updated). Players literally jumped on these updates as they were released, sprinting headlong at an easier way to do something. If it became legal to buy Runescape cash, an untold amount of people would skip the hard work and purchase a few million gp.

 

This will then lead into players taking the game even more seriously. We already have players that are obsessed with this game, to the point where they would cry themselves to sleep every night if they got hacked. By adding another element, the only element left, to Runescape from real life, we would make the accounts way too personal. Now, not only have we put our time and effort into these pixels, but some will put their own money. When you die and lose full Bandos, you won't have just lost full Bandos. You will have lost several real-life dollars. If one-hundred players would cry over losing 20m in a fictional game, then one-thousand would sob over losing $100 in a fictional game. This is not something we can allow to happen.

 

If we allow to allow this to happen, we would lose the essence of the game. If everything becomes so easy to obtain because we can have just about unlimited amounts of cash, there is no fun. Some philosopher once said that the fun isn't in the destination, but in the journey. If we skip out on the journey, the destination is pointless. Sure, it would be nice to stare at a cashpile of 1b, but it would mean nothing to me if I didn't work for it. Now, you could make the argument that I did work for it, because I spent my hard-earned cash on it, but, in reality, it would have just been the spare money that I didn't use to buy food, water, clothing, and housing. I wouldn't work for that money, but I obtain it as I make money. So, in the end, I would not have worked for that large sum of pixel money, and I wouldn't feel satisfied by it. But that whole argument was beside the point. If I had 1b that I bought, I wouldn't have to work to buy all the dream items I want. I could get a godsword set, plus placeholders. I could then merch for a few months and buy a phat set. If I wanted those items, I would have to work for years for them, and I would be satisfied when I got them. I would be happy to quit. If I didn't work for them, I wouldn't feel satisfied, and I would keep playing.

 

Ultimately, the major goal of all players is to quit when they're satisfied with their account. It is a proven fact that you are more satisfied by something that you work hard for. If you remove the hard work, you remove the satisfaction. And when you remove the satisfaction, you remove the fun. And when you remove the fun, you remove the game.

 

In conclusion, when you legalize the sale of Runescape gold, you start a series of chain reactions in the players that buy the gold. First, they will start, or increase, activity involving the game in real life. Next, a deeper connection between real life and Runescape will take hold, and finally, removing all the fun from the game through a series of smaller chain events.

[K4ylan]

A few things that come to mind when I think of real-world trading are that you start working in real life over a game, you begin to take the game more seriously, and you lose the essence of the game. While these are fairly similar, and often identical, they can be quite different:

 

First of all, if someone wants to be rich on Runescape, they can simply work hard, killing green dragons, picking flax, or doing some other profitable activity. These are all fine and dandy because they require some work. You have to put effort into Runescape to reap the rewards of Runescape. The second you stop wanting to put the effort into Runescape is the very second where you start looking for easier ways. Going at the exchange rate of 1m gp = $5, you can make money on Runescape a lot easier if you buy it with cash, even if you work at minimum wage. If you make $7.50 an hour, you could, in theory, 'earn' 1.5m per hour, much higher than if you played Runescape normally. A lot of players would opt for this quicker option and start working to play Runescape. If you don't believe that people won't take this easy path, take a look at Runescape's history. Players will always jump on the easy way out. A few examples off the top of my head are the introduction of The Living Rock Caverns, which allowed miners to easily semi-afk, Choking Ivy, which allowed woodcutters to power through the xp without banking or dropping, and one final example is the release of Soul Wars, which, of course, gave players the ability to get combat experience without doing very much work (this has since been updated). Players literally jumped on these updates as they were released, sprinting headlong at an easier way to do something. If it became legal to buy Runescape cash, an untold amount of people would skip the hard work and purchase a few million gp.

 

This will then lead into players taking the game even more seriously. We already have players that are obsessed with this game, to the point where they would cry themselves to sleep every night if they got hacked. By adding another element, the only element left, to Runescape from real life, we would make the accounts way too personal. Now, not only have we put our time and effort into these pixels, but some will put their own money. When you die and lose full Bandos, you won't have just lost full Bandos. You will have lost several real-life dollars. If one-hundred players would cry over losing 20m in a fictional game, then one-thousand would sob over losing $100 in a fictional game. This is not something we can allow to happen.

 

If we allow to allow this to happen, we would lose the essence of the game. If everything becomes so easy to obtain because we can have just about unlimited amounts of cash, there is no fun. Some philosopher once said that the fun isn't in the destination, but in the journey. If we skip out on the journey, the destination is pointless. Sure, it would be nice to stare at a cashpile of 1b, but it would mean nothing to me if I didn't work for it. Now, you could make the argument that I did work for it, because I spent my hard-earned cash on it, but, in reality, it would have just been the spare money that I didn't use to buy food, water, clothing, and housing. I wouldn't work for that money, but I obtain it as I make money. So, in the end, I would not have worked for that large sum of pixel money, and I wouldn't feel satisfied by it. But that whole argument was beside the point. If I had 1b that I bought, I wouldn't have to work to buy all the dream items I want. I could get a godsword set, plus placeholders. I could then merch for a few months and buy a phat set. If I wanted those items, I would have to work for years for them, and I would be satisfied when I got them. I would be happy to quit. If I didn't work for them, I wouldn't feel satisfied, and I would keep playing.

 

Ultimately, the major goal of all players is to quit when they're satisfied with their account. It is a proven fact that you are more satisfied by something that you work hard for. If you remove the hard work, you remove the satisfaction. And when you remove the satisfaction, you remove the fun. And when you remove the fun, you remove the game.

 

In conclusion, when you legalize the sale of Runescape gold, you start a series of chain reactions in the players that buy the gold. First, they will start, or increase, activity involving the game in real life. Next, a deeper connection between real life and Runescape will take hold, and finally, removing all the fun from the game through a series of smaller chain events.

 

Wow, you really thought about this.

In short, nobody likes to institutionalize RWT.

[Erewhon2]

Just to finally clarify on this topic....

 

Jagex rules state:

 

We dont want you to be able to buy your way to success in our games. If we let players start doing this it devalues our games for other players. We feel your status in real-life shouldnt affect your ability to be successful in the game. Secondly, we cannot monitor the transactions made between players outside the game, and if players swap items for external benefits we cant see, to us it looks like an unbalanced suspicious trade.

 

The terms and conditions state that your character, account and items are, and remain, the property of Jagex

 

I don't think you can get much clearer than that :thumbup:

[quelmotz]

To add on to my earlier reply.

 

I'm sure you or other supporters of institutionalising real-world trading would come up with the argument that it isn't illegal and many games are doing it anyway, for example MapleStory, and whatever games you've cited.

 

Hedgehog1 has already made a very good post about how it would make players overly obsessed with the game. There are cases of people killing or injuring each other over games. Even people committing suicide because they lost a lot of their real-life cash when their account was hacked or whatever. The issue with RWT is this: The cyber world already has a significant influence over many teenagers' real-life activities and actions. RWT further breaches the gap between real-life and the cyber world, causing ingame issues to spill over to real life, from simple issues like players wasting too much time playing computer games to extremely serious issues like people committing suicide or harbouring suicidal/violent thoughts because their account was hacked, they died and lost all their items, etc etc.

 

In conclusion, the issue about Real-World Trading ISN'T about it being illegal or not. It is about it being immoral or not. Whether it is dissolute. Accordingly, Jagex is a company that has high standards of morals and character, as far as companies go anyway. They claim to try their best to prevent immoral activities like luring, scamming, real-world trading, botting, etc. Being an ex-MapleStory player, I can tell you RuneScape is a far cry from MapleStory in terms of prevention of botting, hacking, luring, etc. In MapleStory, you'll regularly see bots spamming, power-training. Real-world trading/account-to-account training is ridiculously easy - just a matter of dropping money in a secluded place at night or something and logging into another account to pick it up. Cheat codes could be activated easily - instructions were readily available on the Web. Scamming was widespread too. In RuneScape, cheat codes are practically unheard of, scamming/botting are rare nowadays, and real-world trading is extremely difficult.

[K4ylan]

To add on to my earlier reply.

 

I'm sure you or other supporters of institutionalising real-world trading would come up with the argument that it isn't illegal and many games are doing it anyway, for example MapleStory, and whatever games you've cited.

 

Hedgehog1 has already made a very good post about how it would make players overly obsessed with the game. There are cases of people killing or injuring each other over games. Even people committing suicide because they lost a lot of their real-life cash when their account was hacked or whatever. The issue with RWT is this: The cyber world already has a significant influence over many teenagers' real-life activities and actions. RWT further breaches the gap between real-life and the cyber world, causing ingame issues to spill over to real life, from simple issues like players wasting too much time playing computer games to extremely serious issues like people committing suicide or harbouring suicidal/violent thoughts because their account was hacked, they died and lost all their items, etc etc.

 

In conclusion, the issue about Real-World Trading ISN'T about it being illegal or not. It is about it being immoral or not. Whether it is dissolute. Accordingly, Jagex is a company that has high standards of morals and character, as far as companies go anyway. They claim to try their best to prevent immoral activities like luring, scamming, real-world trading, botting, etc. Being an ex-MapleStory player, I can tell you RuneScape is a far cry from MapleStory in terms of prevention of botting, hacking, luring, etc. In MapleStory, you'll regularly see bots spamming, power-training. Real-world trading/account-to-account training is ridiculously easy - just a matter of dropping money in a secluded place at night or something and logging into another account to pick it up. Cheat codes could be activated easily - instructions were readily available on the Web. Scamming was widespread too. In RuneScape, cheat codes are practically unheard of, scamming/botting are rare nowadays, and real-world trading is extremely difficult.

 

The suicide/killing thing is the main issue here. It would be far too common if gp had a set monetary value. People have already committed suicide over this game; as for killing, I don't exactly know.

[Rock Hard]

Good idea, would work well.

 

Supporting premise: RWT is great.

 

Seriously, (Almost) everyone wins.

 

3 classes of people:

 

a) People with jobs and lives -

 

Got to work all day anyway, it's inefficient to spend yet more hours grinding when you can buy 5 hours worth o green dragon killing for 1 hours worth of 'work'. Got to spend your excess somewhere, and you get great value for money by cutting out hours of the boring elements of this game so you can focus on doing what you enjoy.

 

B) Kids/Students with too much time on their hands and not enough money -

 

Spending all that time scaping anyway - Why not make a little extra on the side. Case in point - Duke Freedom, great guy. College is expensive, he has too much gold and not enough $$ - What sorta nonce values gamegold above his tuition fees, bed and board?

 

c) Sweatshop employees. Yeah, its a [cabbage] life for them - Painful hours and minuscule recompense. But HELL a JOB is a JOB. Don't try and kid me that your doing them a FAVOR by shutting down their livelihoods - I've lived in a third world country and seen true poverty, people are grateful for ANYTHING that puts food on the table - And although their income sounds ridiculous to us, it's a living wage. Where I lived people would do a full days work for £2/3.50, feed, clothe and house their family with that wage.

 

Who loses out?

 

 

Jagex - One of the reasons cited for the RWT crackdown was that membership pins where being bought with stolen creditcard details by sweatshops and criminals - Leading to a loss of profit as Jagex would have to give the money back. I don't care.

The 2007 Sunday Times Rich List claims that Andrew and Paul Gower are the 654th richest men in the UK, worth £113 million (US $217 million).[15][16] In 2009, the Sunday Times listed them as the 566th richest men, worth an estimated £99 million.[2] The Daily Telegraph also listed Andrew and Paul Gower as the 11th richest young entrepreneurs in the UK.[17]

 

They can afford it.

 

Oh, what? It's not 'fair'? As your real life status plays a larger role on your 'ingame' status? Thats true. And I think that's great - Life is not a set of disjointed unrelated endeavors; Success is based upon initiative [And luck].

 

Working hard at your day job gains you advancement in your other hobbies [Gym membership, rounds at the pub, books to read, superior squash raquet, quality art equipment etc etc etc.] - It's natural and it makes sense.

 

inb4 cool story bro

[K4ylan]

Good idea, would work well.

 

Supporting premise: RWT is great.

 

Seriously, (Almost) everyone wins.

 

3 classes of people:

 

a) People with jobs and lives -

 

Got to work all day anyway, it's inefficient to spend yet more hours grinding when you can buy 5 hours worth o green dragon killing for 1 hours worth of 'work'. Got to spend your excess somewhere, and you get great value for money by cutting out hours of the boring elements of this game so you can focus on doing what you enjoy.

 

B) Kids/Students with too much time on their hands and not enough money -

 

Spending all that time scaping anyway - Why not make a little extra on the side. Case in point - Duke Freedom, great guy. College is expensive, he has too much gold and not enough $ - What sorta nonce values gamegold above his tuition fees, bed and board?

 

c) Sweatshop employees. Yeah, its a [cabbage] life for them - Painful hours and minuscule recompense. But HELL a JOB is a JOB. Don't try and kid me that your doing them a FAVOR by shutting down their livelihoods - I've lived in a third world country and seen true poverty, people are grateful for ANYTHING that puts food on the table - And although their income sounds ridiculous to us, it's a living wage. Where I lived people would do a full days work for £2/3.50, feed, clothe and house their family with that wage.

 

Who loses out?

 

 

Jagex - One of the reasons cited for the RWT crackdown was that membership pins where being bought with stolen creditcard details by sweatshops and criminals - Leading to a loss of profit as Jagex would have to give the money back. I don't care.

The 2007 Sunday Times Rich List claims that Andrew and Paul Gower are the 654th richest men in the UK, worth £113 million (US $217 million).[15][16] In 2009, the Sunday Times listed them as the 566th richest men, worth an estimated £99 million.[2] The Daily Telegraph also listed Andrew and Paul Gower as the 11th richest young entrepreneurs in the UK.[17]

 

They can afford it.

 

Oh, what? It's not 'fair'? As your real life status plays a larger role on your 'ingame' status? Thats true. And I think that's great - Life is not a set of disjointed unrelated endeavors; Success is based upon initiative [And luck].

 

Working hard at your day job gains you advancement in your other hobbies [Gym membership, rounds at the pub, books to read, superior squash raquet, quality art equipment etc etc etc.] - It's natural and it makes sense.

 

inb4 cool story bro

 

When you buy a gym membership, that's because you're about to work hard in order to get fit. That isn't cheating. When you buy a better squash racket, it is to be better at the game and improve your skills. That's not cheating. Buying money in RuneScape, which others have worked weeks to get, and others buy in a minute. THAT is cheating.

 

Many people play RuneScape to get away from their real life and indulge in this fake pixelated world, because here they are equals, their hard work shows through their fancy armors and clothes, not by how much their paycheck is. When real life and RuneScape mix, they have bad relations. I'm sure you know THOSE people who run their lives away on online video games. That's taking it too far. That's bringing RealLife and games together.

 

In short: RS+RWT= Worst U-P-D-A-T-E ever.

[RSBDavid]

Why not create a limited micro-payment system like in WoL?

[quelmotz]

The suicide/killing thing is the main issue here. It would be far too common if gp had a set monetary value. People have already committed suicide over this game; as for killing, I don't exactly know.

 

Also, some people indirectly commit suicide by playing non-stop for hours on end or even days.

 

I heard that some people got into an argument over some game-related issues and one got angry and killed the other guy I think. Anyway, violence due to computer game addiction is common, e.g. people taking a gun, going to a school and shooting students and staff.

 

 

Good idea, would work well.

 

Supporting premise: RWT is great.

 

Seriously, (Almost) everyone wins.

 

3 classes of people:

 

a) People with jobs and lives -

 

Got to work all day anyway, it's inefficient to spend yet more hours grinding when you can buy 5 hours worth o green dragon killing for 1 hours worth of 'work'. Got to spend your excess somewhere, and you get great value for money by cutting out hours of the boring elements of this game so you can focus on doing what you enjoy.

 

B) Kids/Students with too much time on their hands and not enough money -

 

Spending all that time scaping anyway - Why not make a little extra on the side. Case in point - Duke Freedom, great guy. College is expensive, he has too much gold and not enough $$ - What sorta nonce values gamegold above his tuition fees, bed and board?

 

c) Sweatshop employees. Yeah, its a [cabbage] life for them - Painful hours and minuscule recompense. But HELL a JOB is a JOB. Don't try and kid me that your doing them a FAVOR by shutting down their livelihoods - I've lived in a third world country and seen true poverty, people are grateful for ANYTHING that puts food on the table - And although their income sounds ridiculous to us, it's a living wage. Where I lived people would do a full days work for £2/3.50, feed, clothe and house their family with that wage.

 

Who loses out?

 

 

Jagex - One of the reasons cited for the RWT crackdown was that membership pins where being bought with stolen creditcard details by sweatshops and criminals - Leading to a loss of profit as Jagex would have to give the money back. I don't care.

 

Wikipedia said:

The 2007 Sunday Times Rich List claims that Andrew and Paul Gower are the 654th richest men in the UK, worth £113 million (US $217 million).[15][16] In 2009, the Sunday Times listed them as the 566th richest men, worth an estimated £99 million.[2] The Daily Telegraph also listed Andrew and Paul Gower as the 11th richest young entrepreneurs in the UK.[17]

 

 

They can afford it.

 

Oh, what? It's not 'fair'? As your real life status plays a larger role on your 'ingame' status? Thats true. And I think that's great - Life is not a set of disjointed unrelated endeavors; Success is based upon initiative [And luck].

 

Working hard at your day job gains you advancement in your other hobbies [Gym membership, rounds at the pub, books to read, superior squash raquet, quality art equipment etc etc etc.] - It's natural and it makes sense.

 

Load of one-sided bias [cabbage].

 

For the people with jobs - seriously? Working adults have excess cash? Go poll a thousand working adults and let's see how many of them have excess cash. And even if they do, they're more likely to spend it on alchohol (for men) and cosmetic crap (for women), rather than games. Money is always short for anyone in middle to low class. And the high-class are a minority.

 

For kids/students - you're encouraging people to no-life for gp? As if computer game addiction isn't bad enough already..Students playing RuneScape will become obsessed with making gp and play non-stop to make money. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

For sweatshop employees - there are better jobs out there than being tortured for a miserable sum of money. And it's not about them getting money - it's about human rights. Mainland Chinese can always move to neighbouring Asian countries where jobs are plentiful, e.g. Japan, Singapore, etc.

 

Your logic for Jagex is RIDICULOUS. Firstly - Jagex being rich makes them deserve getting their money ripped off? It's like saying go burn down Microsoft warehouses because Bill Gates is the richest person in the world since it wouldn't matter anyway. Secondly, don't you know credit card fraud is a REAL-LIFE CRIME? Jagex doing their part to suppress it also helps to prevent a real-world crime.

 

Success is based upon initiative - what's wrong with having initiative ingame? Success being largely based on luck is true, but that doesn't mean we have to encourage it or condone it. Anyhow, there are plenty of examples of people who have become successful even though they are from a poor family.

[Erewhon2]

 

Load of one-sided bias [cabbage].

 

For the people with jobs - seriously? Working adults have excess cash? Go poll a thousand working adults and let's see how many of them have excess cash. And even if they do, they're more likely to spend it on alchohol (for men) and cosmetic crap (for women), rather than games. Money is always short for anyone in middle to low class. And the high-class are a minority.

 

For kids/students - you're encouraging people to no-life for gp? As if computer game addiction isn't bad enough already..Students playing RuneScape will become obsessed with making gp and play non-stop to make money. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

For sweatshop employees - there are better jobs out there than being tortured for a miserable sum of money. And it's not about them getting money - it's about human rights. Mainland Chinese can always move to neighbouring Asian countries where jobs are plentiful, e.g. Japan, Singapore, etc.

 

Your logic for Jagex is RIDICULOUS. Firstly - Jagex being rich makes them deserve getting their money ripped off? It's like saying go burn down Microsoft warehouses because Bill Gates is the richest person in the world since it wouldn't matter anyway. Secondly, don't you know credit card fraud is a REAL-LIFE CRIME? Jagex doing their part to suppress it also helps to prevent a real-world crime.

 

Success is based upon initiative - what's wrong with having initiative ingame? Success being largely based on luck is true, but that doesn't mean we have to encourage it or condone it. Anyhow, there are plenty of examples of people who have become successful even though they are from a poor family.

 

@Gidion, I find your comments offensive, disrespectful and discriminatory, with very little understanding of how many people struggle financially in the western world and as for your comments about developing countries, how insensitive can you be?

 

Quelmotz....don't pass out! I'm totally in agreement with you here.

 

Let me add, that the whole point of a 'game' is to take pleasure from playing it not by cheating! Most people give up looking for cheats or 'quick wins' on a game by the time they reach adulthood or earlier and remember that the enjoyment comes from self achievement and playing and as Quelmotz said; using your initiative. Otherwise whats the point?

[Guthorm]

To Gidion

 

I would have said something in retrospective if Quel did not do so already, I would think about what you have stated if I were you.

[quelmotz]

People really don't think before they speak on the internet, do they? <_<

 

(by the way, this is a rhetorical question. I doubt anyone wouldn't know the answer...)

 

Guess it's all part of internet culture where you don't have to pay for what you say online unlike in real-life.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Institutionalize RWT? No happening way. It's a horrible idea from the start. Outside of some great points highlighted, I'd like to add the "legitimate player" factor in here as well.

 

I personally like to earn things when I play a game. Having it all handed to me takes the fun right out of it. Letting others take the easy way out of it (i.e. buying gold, equipment, skills, etc) cheapens the game for me. Thus, I quit playing the game and move on to another one - one that takes a no-nonsense approach to RWT.

 

Let's think about this - how many legitimate players exist? Well, exact numbers would be hard to find, but they outnumber the players that want to take the easy way out of things. I totally believe that.

 

To wrap up - RWT in RuneScape would be a horrible idea. Easily one of the worst.

 

And to the guy that rationalized RWT because Jagex made millions: How fast would that stockpile of cash evaporate if all you had were the players that wanted to cheat and get ahead in the game (who would ultimately quit after 3 months), and you didn't have any new members coming in (since the appeal of buying cash is much greater than earning cash, and turns other players away)? Yeah, watch that $70 million fade to oblivion after their main money maker goes down the tubes.