institutionalize real world trading?

[Rock Hard]

hook line and sinker

 

;)

[quelmotz]

What a hypocrite.

 

Let me just kindly tell you that if you want to post rashly and spout BS, then the debate forums isn't for you. Nor any forums in the TIF for that matter. Get your [wagon] back to the RSOF if you want to spout nonsense - here in the TIF they'll just get shredded to pieces.

 

EDIT: Wait, you still haven't learned your lesson after 997 posts in the TIF? Wow, you're really thick.

[Rock Hard]

What a hypocrite.

 

Let me just kindly tell you that if you want to post rashly and spout BS, then the debate forums isn't for you. Nor any forums in the TIF for that matter. Get your [wagon] back to the RSOF if you want to spout nonsense - here in the TIF they'll just get shredded to pieces.

 

EDIT: Wait, you still haven't learned your lesson after 997 posts in the TIF? Wow, you're really thick.

 

the tif is a hotbed of faux-maturity and assumed airs of pseudo-intellectualism

 

Wannabes, basically.

 

dont worry son, i'm only playing

 

why so serious

 

;)

[quelmotz]

What a hypocrite.

 

Let me just kindly tell you that if you want to post rashly and spout BS, then the debate forums isn't for you. Nor any forums in the TIF for that matter. Get your [wagon] back to the RSOF if you want to spout nonsense - here in the TIF they'll just get shredded to pieces.

 

EDIT: Wait, you still haven't learned your lesson after 997 posts in the TIF? Wow, you're really thick.

 

the tif is a hotbed of faux-maturity and assumed airs of pseudo-intellectualism

 

Wannabes, basically.

 

dont worry son, i'm only playing

 

why so serious

 

;)

 

-.-

 

If you're trying to cover up and pretend you're just joking to save your "face", I can see through it easily.

 

You can't fake intelligence - all it takes is someone smarter to see through it (that is, unless you're Albert Einstein, but that's besides the point... :blink: )

[Rock Hard]

 

If you're trying to cover up and pretend you're just joking to save your "face", I can see through it easily.

 

You can't fake intelligence - all it takes is someone smarter to see through it (that is, unless you're Albert Einstein, but that's besides the point... :blink: )

 

 

Oh shush you

 

;)

[Chayliel]

I'm still trying to see where people are getting the notion the issue of real-world trading actually affected Runescape for the worst in the first place. The game was able to function on a stable basis for what? 5+ years? This is with RWT. In an attempt to apply a quick patch, Jagex introduced a new problem, and a new one, and a new one. So, all we're left with is a cascading list of new problems which arise with every attempt to fix the latest problem, while the best solution is to wipe the slate clean and begin at step 1. There are methods beyond the constriction of the player-player economy which would work in the effort against RWT. Where is the balance these days? Players become rich doing absolutely nothing still, yet the economy, and players who have enough principle to work the old-fashioned way are left to wither?

 

When RWT was still in full swing, players payed their membership, got their money, and bought their wildest dreams. Then? As someone pointed out, they quit. Most actually took their money to their grave. The game functioned quite normally, actually. As a matter of fact, a good majority of players never bough gold because of either lack of funds, or disinterest in the fast lane. Now the forums are filled with complaints about inflation, prices, tricking, cheating. It's more chaotic than ever before!

 

Honesty, if Jagex just went back to stage 1, the game would probably turn for the best.

[quelmotz]

I'm still trying to see where people are getting the notion the issue of real-world trading actually affected Runescape for the worst in the first place. The game was able to function on a stable basis for what? 5+ years? This is with RWT. In an attempt to apply a quick patch, Jagex introduced a new problem, and a new one, and a new one. So, all we're left with is a cascading list of new problems which arise with every attempt to fix the latest problem, while the best solution is to wipe the slate clean and begin at step 1. There are methods beyond the constriction of the player-player economy which would work in the effort against RWT. Where is the balance these days? Players become rich doing absolutely nothing still, yet the economy, and players who have enough principle to work the old-fashioned way are left to wither?

 

When RWT was still in full swing, players payed their membership, got their money, and bought their wildest dreams. Then? As someone pointed out, they quit. Most actually took their money to their grave. The game functioned quite normally, actually. As a matter of fact, a good majority of players never bough gold because of either lack of funds, or disinterest in the fast lane. Now the forums are filled with complaints about inflation, prices, tricking, cheating. It's more chaotic than ever before!

 

Honesty, if Jagex just went back to stage 1, the game would probably turn for the best.

 

What BS.

 

5+ years? Most of the "5+ years" RWT hadn't even surfaced yet. It only started becoming serious close to 2007 or so when RuneScape was becoming bigger.

 

Can you explain to me how people are becoming rich "doing absolutely nothing"? You mean money falls from the sky and lands on their heads? Wow. If you're talking about merchants, they don't "do absolutely nothing". It takes skill to be a successful merchant for goodness's sake. As for price manipulators...that's a separate issue. It's illegal and I think Jagex should ban it or take some form of action against it.

 

Old-fashioned methods are still reliable and efficient if you are persistent and you know the "secrets of the trade".

 

The "string of updates" was because people were complaining about Jagex's fixes, not because they couldn't solve the problems properly. It was the [wagon] PKers who screamed and ranted about the loss of the precious wilderness and how lousy the updates were. Jagex was pressured to cater to them since many supported them.

 

You claim the game "functioned normally". What evidence do you have? You could be lying. You can't believe everything you see, especially on the internet. Furthermore, a single, probably highly biased viewpoint cannot conclude on an issue just like that.

 

RWTing is a crime. Also, the RWTers maltreated people and also committed other crimes like credit card fraud and such. Jagex had to take action to curb the issue quickly, hence the hasty solution. They were pressured by banks who threatened to prohibit their customers from using their credit cards to pay for membership.

 

Oh shush you

 

;)

 

You're pathetic.

[Chayliel]

Quelmotz,

 

RWT was always a issue, always. Even in 2002 Runescape, when I began playing, you'd see a veritable stack of websites just dying to sell you ~1 million Rs gold for $9.99 US, or a price similar to that. Hell, even I'd contemplated the notion at times, though I'd no credit card I could use for my own purposes, as such I'd never been a member until a couple years later. Getting back on track, however, from 2002 until the removal of the wilderness, restrictions on trade, etc: the game generally functioned rather smoothly. Prices were very stable, and the amount of "rich" players was actually very discreet. I'd also like to mention that at the time, many older players used to take part and help other players. A friendly community indeed, compared to the disrespect rampant today. Even more interesting, it was easier to help people because items you didn't need could be handed to less fortunate players. That's just the community. The game itself was very stable, especially the economy. Player-killers could make an honest payout by simply doing their own thing, and the clan community, in terms of the wilderness and economy, was very, very functional.

 

As for RWT as a problem itself, you're right, it did become a problem towards the advent of 2007. Why the problem got worse with progression is quite the easy concept to behold: an influx of younger players, inexperienced and undereducated in terms of online conduct. At the age I began playing, if I had the option, I'd have surely bought gold for money. I learned, however, and I learned fast. This perhaps saved me the fate of fraud, or identity theft as you mentioned, Quelmotz.

 

As for players making money doing absolutely nothing, merchants do quite a bit. It'd be foolish to even make a correlation between the two. I'm directly citing the problem of statuettes in player-killing, and their abhorrent affect on the economy.

 

If you aren't convinced, I can switch to you particular tone instead, by first citing this:

 

"You claim the game "functioned normally". What evidence do you have? You could be lying. You can't believe everything you see, especially on the internet. Furthermore, a single, probably highly biased viewpoint cannot conclude on an issue just like that". -quelmotz

 

You should know that any accusatory statement such as this, if true for one party, must be true for both. You've similarly no evidence to support that I'm not lying, whereas I've my own experiences to account for the situation, regardless of whether or not you choose to believe me. I can certainly attest to the state of affairs in post 2007 Runescape (2002-2006). This is where I draw my conclusions from, not some arbitrary bias. History accounts for itself, I'm just here to convey my interpretation of how decision making on behalf of Jagex could've changed the course of gameplay for the better of everyone.

[quelmotz]

Quelmotz,

 

RWT was always a issue, always. Even in 2002 Runescape, when I began playing, you'd see a veritable stack of websites just dying to sell you ~1 million Rs gold for $9.99 US, or a price similar to that. Hell, even I'd contemplated the notion at times, though I'd no credit card I could use for my own purposes, as such I'd never been a member until a couple years later. Getting back on track, however, from 2002 until the removal of the wilderness, restrictions on trade, etc: the game generally functioned rather smoothly. Prices were very stable, and the amount of "rich" players was actually very discreet. I'd also like to mention that at the time, many older players used to take part and help other players. A friendly community indeed, compared to the disrespect rampant today. Even more interesting, it was easier to help people because items you didn't need could be handed to less fortunate players. That's just the community. The game itself was very stable, especially the economy. Player-killers could make an honest payout by simply doing their own thing, and the clan community, in terms of the wilderness and economy, was very, very functional.

 

As for RWT as a problem itself, you're right, it did become a problem towards the advent of 2007. Why the problem got worse with progression is quite the easy concept to behold: an influx of younger players, inexperienced and undereducated in terms of online conduct. At the age I began playing, if I had the option, I'd have surely bought gold for money. I learned, however, and I learned fast. This perhaps saved me the fate of fraud, or identity theft as you mentioned, Quelmotz.

 

As for players making money doing absolutely nothing, merchants do quite a bit. It'd be foolish to even make a correlation between the two. I'm directly citing the problem of statuettes in player-killing, and their abhorrent affect on the economy.

 

If you aren't convinced, I can switch to you particular tone instead, by first citing this:

 

"You claim the game "functioned normally". What evidence do you have? You could be lying. You can't believe everything you see, especially on the internet. Furthermore, a single, probably highly biased viewpoint cannot conclude on an issue just like that". -quelmotz

 

You should know that any accusatory statement such as this, if true for one party, must be true for both. You've similarly no evidence to support that I'm not lying, whereas I've my own experiences to account for the situation, regardless of whether or not you choose to believe me. I can certainly attest to the state of affairs in post 2007 Runescape (2002-2006). This is where I draw my conclusions from, not some arbitrary bias. History accounts for itself, I'm just here to convey my interpretation of how decision making on behalf of Jagex could've changed the course of gameplay for the better of everyone.

 

First off, on the issue of whether you're lying or not. That wasn't meant to offend anyone. It was just a question to challenge your claims. Yes, I admit that the statement can also apply to me, but your claims are bigger, and I've not made many statements - I've merely questioned your claims. Reiterating my point - how do your prove that prices pre-2007 Dec 10 were stable? As I said, I'm NOT stating that prices pre-2007 Dec 10 were STABLE, however, I am challenging your point, not stating a point myself.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but how do statuettes abhorrently affect the economy?

 

Young kids playing RuneScape is somehow related to RWTing? Only rich and spoiled kids will have the money to buy their gp (this is a different point for teenagers). And what is the proportion of rich kids compared to middle-income/poor kids? With regards to conduct, that I agree. However, games inevitably grow, and as a part of this growth, more immature idiots will enter, and thus worsen the community. Who doesn't wish for less idiots? Sadly, Jagex can't do anything to solve this. Idiots aren't determined by IQ or any other measurable statistic.

 

As for your first paragraph, your statements are just CLAIMS. If you have no way of backing them up, then they're as good as just an opinion. I don't disrespect your opinion, but you can't prove anything with it but no one can attack you for having a different opinion either.

[Chayliel]

Well, as I've stated, you're in no way required to believe me. However, I've played the entire decade, and I've seen Runescape change like a sine wave on drugs, for lack of a better comparison. As to proving these claims, let's look at the economic status: Any item could be bought or sold for relatively uniform prices in older Runescape. These days, something that'd take weeks to sell, you'd get a bid on within minutes. Of course, prices were subject to change, but due to competition to sell, prices stayed relatively uniform, again. Not only is there instability in today's economy due to rampant inflation, and the introduction of the GE, but the RSOF is filled with more flaming and hate threads than I've ever seen. Complaints are at an all time high! The statuettes made it possible for many to make millions more than they'd ever in a shorter amount of time than I'd ever conceive possible! This contributed to the poor economic state in majority.

[quelmotz]

Fluctuating prices are not a sign for an instable economy. What economy has all items/stock selling at an uniform (or more-or-less uniform) price? Please don't be ridiculous.

 

Complaints being at an all time high does not reflect that the game is in a bad state. Here in Singapore idiots complaining against the government are extremely common online, but if you haven't failed your Geography you'll know Singapore is one of the most successful countries in the world.

 

Inflation is inevitable. Your parents' lunches when they were in school probably cost much less than yours, assuming that money had the same value then as compared to now.

 

Again, can you please explain to me how statuettes allow people to make huge profits from "barely doing anything"?

[Alex_Ewan_1]

I think the only way for this to work properly is for jagex to sell the RS related stuff via their online store.

[quelmotz]

I think the only way for this to work properly is for jagex to sell the RS related stuff via their online store.

 

No, it isn't going to work whether Jagex sells RS stuff on their online store or not. The whole CONCEPT is dumb, regardless of how it is implemented.

[Infi]

Good idea, would work well.

 

Supporting premise: RWT is great.

 

Seriously, (Almost) everyone wins.

 

3 classes of people:

 

a) People with jobs and lives -

 

Got to work all day anyway, it's inefficient to spend yet more hours grinding when you can buy 5 hours worth o green dragon killing for 1 hours worth of 'work'. Got to spend your excess somewhere, and you get great value for money by cutting out hours of the boring elements of this game so you can focus on doing what you enjoy.

 

B) Kids/Students with too much time on their hands and not enough money -

 

Spending all that time scaping anyway - Why not make a little extra on the side. Case in point - Duke Freedom, great guy. College is expensive, he has too much gold and not enough $$ - What sorta nonce values gamegold above his tuition fees, bed and board?

 

c) Sweatshop employees. Yeah, its a [cabbage] life for them - Painful hours and minuscule recompense. But HELL a JOB is a JOB. Don't try and kid me that your doing them a FAVOR by shutting down their livelihoods - I've lived in a third world country and seen true poverty, people are grateful for ANYTHING that puts food on the table - And although their income sounds ridiculous to us, it's a living wage. Where I lived people would do a full days work for £2/3.50, feed, clothe and house their family with that wage.

 

Who loses out?

 

 

Jagex - One of the reasons cited for the RWT crackdown was that membership pins where being bought with stolen creditcard details by sweatshops and criminals - Leading to a loss of profit as Jagex would have to give the money back. I don't care.

The 2007 Sunday Times Rich List claims that Andrew and Paul Gower are the 654th richest men in the UK, worth £113 million (US $217 million).[15][16] In 2009, the Sunday Times listed them as the 566th richest men, worth an estimated £99 million.[2] The Daily Telegraph also listed Andrew and Paul Gower as the 11th richest young entrepreneurs in the UK.[17]

 

They can afford it.

 

Oh, what? It's not 'fair'? As your real life status plays a larger role on your 'ingame' status? Thats true. And I think that's great - Life is not a set of disjointed unrelated endeavors; Success is based upon initiative [And luck].

 

Working hard at your day job gains you advancement in your other hobbies [Gym membership, rounds at the pub, books to read, superior squash raquet, quality art equipment etc etc etc.] - It's natural and it makes sense.

 

inb4 cool story bro

I agree unequivocally. They should also allow a trading medium to be established which trades in-game experience for real life money, though they have almost no correlation and should be treated separately as such. What a great game Runescape would be then!

[Rock Hard]

 

I agree unequivocally. They should also allow a trading medium to be established which trades in-game experience for real life money, though they have almost no correlation and should be treated separately as such. What a great game Runescape would be then!

 

I know right!?

[quelmotz]

I agree unequivocally. They should also allow a trading medium to be established which trades in-game experience for real life money, though they have almost no correlation and should be treated separately as such. What a great game Runescape would be then!

 

Care to explain how?

[Rock Hard]

Care to explain how?

 

he was being facetious

[quelmotz]

Care to explain how?

 

he was being facetious

 

And I was being sarcastic.

[Rock Hard]

 

 

And I was being sarcastic.

 

ah, witty - lets e-respect you

 

;)

[quelmotz]

 

 

And I was being sarcastic.

 

ah, witty - lets e-respect you

 

;)

 

Since when did I ask for respect?

 

I'm here to debate, not to demand attention.

[Ren]

GP for Rs Members credit..hm.. Maybe if it were a limited amount of times and only a few days or something, then it would make sense. But besides that, very dumb idea..

[mooing_mouse1988116552133]

I say no for it would give those with real life advantages (money) more advantages in game (gp -> items). As you said, there is no telling how it would affect RS, so not taking the risk would be better than harming or destroying RS.

[Skeptical]

No, then the real world is brought into the game: ex, wealthy kids being able to buy their way into high levels.

[sausagewalls]

This is not a great idea imo, it wouldnt work.

 

i just say take away trade limit, bring back wildy and let the noob rwt'ers do there thing.

it doesnt effect me if they get stupidly rich doing nothing. but these stupid updates did.

 

You cant "ruin" an economy, only change it.