Manipulation Clans

[GameSock]

This is not a rant about how manipulation clans effect the economy.

This is a rant about how manipulation clans can negatively effect the real lives of people who are unfortunate enough to be sucked into them.

i.e. young players who don't know enough to avoid these scams.

 

I took the time to write all of it, please to the time to read all of it.

 

Today I was looking at the money in my bank; A measly million. I was thinking of ways to boost this amount, when an idea popped into my head. Something along the lines of "I know that people get scammed by manipulation clans, but maybe i could try to find an item that looks merch-able, and buy some before a manipulation clan does. Then I will sell early after a clan picks it up and make about 20% profit." In essence, I wanted to manipulated the manipulators. So to start my immersion into the world of manipulation clans, i visited world 1 GE. Immediately after logging in, I was bombarded with a wall of M.C. (I will now refer to manipulation clans as M.C. to save time.) spammers, and must admit, I laughed to myself. I noted to myself that many of the spammers had regualar usernames.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While there were still many auto spammers with names such as "Huge Merch2", there were also players whos names were original, suggesting they were main accounts. Then another thought crept into my head. Either they are using auto typers, or they arn't. Either is scary. If they are using auto typers, then those main accounts may very well be banned should jagex decide to take action. Thats somebodies hours of game time possibly down the drain b/c they are advertising for somebody who is scamming them. If those arn't autotypers, then those are real people sitting at a computer screen, typing line after line in hopes of getting ranked, so that maybe they can make a little extra money. These people are wasting their lives!

 

Playing Runescape, with connection to the real world is useless. Spamming, within Runescape, is useless as far as the point of the game goes. What if you are being useless, inside the thing that in reality is useless? Thats just sad! These people are going on a game, to work, and the worst part, are not getting paid for it. Imagine how these people must feel after their hours of sitting hunched over a computer, getting carpel tunnel, rewards them with losing large sums of their in game wealth?

 

 

 

 

 

 

So now, feeling curious, I joined one of these clans. The cc title was set as "announced soon", so I set public to hide and waited a few mins. I sat back and watched as the leader of the cc pumped propaganda into the minds of these people. People who were of ignorant just how complex the methods clan leaders were using in order to drill the "Wow im going to be so rich" mentality into their sponge-like minds.

Some methods that are used by the M.C. to keep its members believing in the clan:

 

-To prevent people joining these clans and spamming things like "Your all being scammed! don't buy anything!", the only person who can talk in the cc is the leader, and ranked members on occasion(such as question time, see below).

-Leader places dump prices sometimes up to 2 times or more than the price that they will actually be dumping at.

-Leader says things such as "This merch is going to be the best we've ever had!"

-Ploys to make members believe that leaders do not already have the item pre-bought

 

 

 

 

 

 

This got me feeling slightly irritated, and I began to make some real-world connections.

 

Dictatorship Country:

High censorship

High amount of propaganda

 

Sweatshop Companies:

Taking advantage of groups of people

Having people do menial tasks for little/no reward

One owner/ group of owners make large profits

 

My conclusion: What these people are doing is terrible!

 

So I sat and watched for a little longer, anger brewing.

 

Eventually, the leader called everyone to pay attention, they were going to have a vote on what item should be merched. "That seems a little odd" I thought. "This is one of those rare honest M.C. clan leaders? Who buys at the same time as all the lower members of his clan?". Oh wait. Hes lying.

So for about 2 minutes the leader opened up his private chat so he could receive votes for which item we should pick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"So mister leader guy, who's confirming the actual results of the "votes" you received?" Oh wait. Your lying.

To prove it, I sent him my vote.

 

 

 

 

Maybe he missed my vote? or maybe he wasnt even looking when people poured in their suggetions. Im guessing the later, because I was neither kicked nor replied to.

Either way, through the honest system of democracy, we found our merch item; amulet of defense.

 

Now the leader opened up clan chat for all ranked members, and "question time" began, where regular members were free to pm questions to ranked members. By this time it was fair to say I was pretty pissed off. Me and a ranked member had this chat.

 

To make things easier, this is the order of how things went:

(RM = ranked member I was talking to)

 

Me: How many thousands of defense ammys did you already have

Me: before you told us to buy them out?

RM: Game I had non

Me: How can anyone believe that?

RM: (silence)

Me: I have another question

Me: Whats the number of people who are in on the

Me: "actual" dump price?

RM: Game Sock--4k

Me: You didnt answer my question you idiot

Me: I asked you, how many people are in on the "actual" dump price (1.5k?ish)

RM: Game Sock--i told u the dump price is 4k

Me: Im not asking you the dump price you idiot! Im asking how many people

Me: Are going to dump at 1.5k? Like all the people in kahoots

Me: Can your small mind fit around that simple question?

RM: (No response)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course this convo didn't accomplish anything, I was just trying to blow off some steam.

 

At this time I left the clan chat, and took a break from Runescape for a while.

 

Conclusion

 

I came in hopes of manipulating the manipulators, and maybe stealing a few gp from the owners of merchanting clans. While I may infact take money from a few clan leaders, I am mostly taking money from A LOT of innocent players. You must realize that most of the people who fall into these tricks are gullible and young players. For some of you, think back to when you were twelve/ thirteen and playing the game. Remember how much it meant to you. Back then, having all that youve worked for in runescape taken away from you could be devastating. However, I don't care about the prices being manipulated, I care about the people being manipulated. Kids come onto Runescape to have fun, and they are prime victims for this scam. Being tricked into wasting your time, (time that is meant to be fun, hell! your playing a video game!) is what makes me so damn angry at manipulators. Be it the time you take to spam, the time lost when you are banned for auto-spamming, or the time lost when you lose the money you worked for hours to get. Our lives are short. Our time as children is shorter. Please support and raise any and all conflict with Price Manipulators as much as you possibly can.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Tim]

I must say, that's a well written Rant and whole-hearty agree..... Sadly they seem to forget the new F2P dungeon monsters drop Defence Amulets quite often....

[quelmotz]

Fully agreed.

 

I don't see why Jagex didn't put price manipulation on the list of offences in RuneScape. Sure, even if they termed it as "investment", the techniques these clans use shouldn't be allowed. Spamming and scamming. Both are offences. And it isn't "investment". It's scamming people to raise prices so much for THEIR own benefit.

[friedtomato7]

I agree with you 100% and because this is a game i never grind skills or train for long periods of time and just do what suits me. On a side note you might want to block the usernames or save a copy of this file just in case :blink:

[GameSock]

I agree with you 100% and because this is a game i never grind skills or train for long periods of time and just do what suits me. On a side note you might want to block the usernames or save a copy of this file just in case :blink:

 

Thanks for the advice, I'd forgotten the rule you cant bring up peoples rsn's in a negative sense. A little confusion theres also with the pics, cleared up now i believe

[sees_all1]

You should realize that they're wiling to break rules (the leaders) to make a couple gp.

 

 

To make money from merchanting clans, you need to know the item before they start?

No, that's impossible. And it would make you as bad as the leaders.

 

Making money from merchanting clans is easy. You need to know what they're merchanting, and when they're dumping. If you see an item crashing hard on the G.E., there's probably a merchanting clan behind it. If there is (and not a change to supply or demand), the item will fall below its equilibrium. The concept is simple: just before the item falls to an all time low, buy as much of it as you can. The difference between you and these clans is that you're patient and willing to wait a week for your money, they are greedy and are not willing to wait.

Poor fools that get stuck with the merchanted item in bulk have no use for it, they just want to get their money back. What do they do? They sell for minimum. What do you do? You buy for minimum. Then you slowly sell the item back once it gets back to normal. If you're lucky, another merchanting clan might go after it because its so unstable. Then you can screw the leaders by dumping on them.

 

Yes, I understand my method isn't perfect. But its a heck of a lot safer and easier than putting your faith in a bunch of strangers with autotypers.

[GameSock]

Then you can screw the leaders by dumping on them.

 

Yes, I understand my method isn't perfect. But its a heck of a lot safer and easier than putting your faith in a bunch of strangers with autotypers.

 

 

You obviously didnt read my entire post, and dont understand the message I'm trying to convey.

[Bladewing]

People will never cease to be stupid. So scamming in one form or another will exist as long as trade exists. Personally I'll take free trade and the occasional scam than a single player game.

 

Also note that manipulation clans are only possible because of trade restrictions.

[friedtomato7]

even though i dislike price manipulation clans and the new trade limit it would not be justification to remove the g.e because it is much quicker than going on the forums and it is helpfull for quests

[Omali]

If Jagex put in measures to stop price manipulation which is (at the moment) very easy with a clan on the GE, and maybe bans a few leaders of these manipulation clans, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

I think Jagex is looking towards methods to stop manipulation, and when they do a ball is going to be dropped. They've already busted up a few attempted manipulations last year, but they can't win the war by trying to get there first.

[Bladewing]

How to stop price manipulation: expand the price limits on all items, update items based on surplus/shortage (as opposed to quantity traded), and increase the rate at which items update.

[Skeptical]

Nice post, it was a good read.

[sees_all1]

Then you can screw the leaders by dumping on them.

 

Yes, I understand my method isn't perfect. But its a heck of a lot safer and easier than putting your faith in a bunch of strangers with autotypers.

 

 

You obviously didnt read my entire post, and dont understand the message I'm trying to convey.

 

No, I actually read ALL of it. To be perfectly honest, you didn't say anything that hasn't been said before. Thanks for wasting 15 minutes of my time.

 

for everyone else that finds the first post to be too long:

1. OP wants to see if these "get rich quick clans" are too good to be true

2. OP finds that these "get rich quick clans" are too good to be true

3. OP is ticked off at another, ranked, player.

4. OP spends time crafting a rant that tells a story everyone already knows.

 

By the way, I've made many millions "sweeping up" items after they've been dumped. Its very easy, and its low risk. It also helps the idiots that get sucked into the merchanting clan get their GP back - if no one bought their junk, the item would fall further.

[Aiel]

Then you can screw the leaders by dumping on them.

 

Yes, I understand my method isn't perfect. But its a heck of a lot safer and easier than putting your faith in a bunch of strangers with autotypers.

 

 

You obviously didnt read my entire post, and dont understand the message I'm trying to convey.

 

No, I actually read ALL of it. To be perfectly honest, you didn't say anything that hasn't been said before. Thanks for wasting 15 minutes of my time.

 

for everyone else that finds the first post to be too long:

1. OP wants to see if these "get rich quick clans" are too good to be true

2. OP finds that these "get rich quick clans" are too good to be true

3. OP is ticked off at another, ranked, player.

4. OP spends time crafting a rant that tells a story everyone already knows.

 

By the way, I've made many millions "sweeping up" items after they've been dumped. Its very easy, and its low risk. It also helps the idiots that get sucked into the merchanting clan get their GP back - if no one bought their junk, the item would fall further.

actually, if nobody bought there junk, the item wouldn't drop at all. GE price changes are based on completed offers, not offers that have not sold/bought.

[sees_all1]

By the way, I've made many millions "sweeping up" items after they've been dumped. Its very easy, and its low risk. It also helps the idiots that get sucked into the merchanting clan get their GP back - if no one bought their junk, the item would fall further.

actually, if nobody bought there junk, the item wouldn't drop at all. GE price changes are based on completed offers, not offers that have not sold/bought.

Fine - if no one bought their junk, they'd have no GP, and they would have a total loss.

 

Thing is, there always are completed offers at any price for any sort of item that a merchanting clan would pick.

By sweeping up an item, I put a floor on how far the item has to fall before it rebounds. If no one swept the item, it would fall further.

[Youmu]

Problem is, no matter how lame manipulation clans try to lure people in, people will still stupidly fall for it.

 

Most of the people in the community are kids, and they are easily gullible.

[Harakiri]

Thanks to the OP for a well-thought out and well-written piece. Very rare to find, and very rare to have me agree with.

And looking at your picture of the Grand Exchange made me ask something:

Why the hell are they screaming out that they are selling stuff when the GE is right there. Or why are they saying they are going to sell something on the GE?

[3nslavE]

Oh look... it's THIS thread again

[All_Is_Great]

Everytime I go to GE, I turn off public chat, I can't stand it anymore.

[CaJ]

There is NOTHING in society that is flawless.

 

Manipulation Clans, yes, they ruin the game. They gain profit for their benefit, not investment. But what do you expect any of us to do? Knock on Jagex's polished door and demand that all of them "Be Taken Out!?"

 

I think all of you need to realize that Jagex is well aware of the issue. If Manipulation Clans pose a bigger threat to the point where they leave a permanant mark for the future of the game, then Jagex SHOULD address the problem not only to their own staff, but also to the every-day players of Runescape. We've already discussed how the RWT updates had to be done, and how the Grand Exchange presents it's own problems. That gave birth to the Manipulation Clans we see today. I have not joined any of those clans, and in my personal view Jagex should state they take away a lot of the excitement that goes with playing the game.

 

Everybody will in sometime in their lives be a bit greedy and want a bit of a boost. It doesn't matter if they regret the decision, there will always be people who want to be a part of the Manipulation. When the era is over and the clans collapse, something new will start off and a new generation emerges. It happens both in real life and on the Internet.

 

I played Runescape to have a bit of fun and escape from reality. Such debates like this one are trying to bring Reality into the Gaming World, and considering the tough times we live in, that is NOT what I want to see.

 

And please do not put REAL LIFE ISSUES into a game that only a select few play. You're basically comparing apples to oranges. I understand some of the issues that manipulation has put on people in the past. If you want to compare petty distractions at the Grand Exchange to problems that affected the real life world, then feel free. None of us should have to sit and feel that we're taking ECONOMICS right on Runescape just for being at the Grand Exchange.

[nightshade53]

By the way, I've made many millions "sweeping up" items after they've been dumped. Its very easy, and its low risk. It also helps the idiots that get sucked into the merchanting clan get their GP back - if no one bought their junk, the item would fall further.

 

Ditto. With careful observation you can buy an item in bulk for minimum and sell for maximum during the same update. I'd rather do that then worry about how legit the merching clan who's back I am riding on is, and how soon they were going to dump.

 

Yeah this rant is a pretty common one, and probably my only gripe with runescape. I hate being told 'i'll have to wait a few days, that item is currently being merched'. Meaning it is near impossible to get one, and I should just make do without. It's even worse when monster hunting or pking supplies are bought out, meaning that I can't do the only things in the game I really enjoy. It makes me rage quit.

 

I'm also sure it's against the rules. Pre grand exchange you used to get banned for making a thread on the official forums that encouraged price manipulation.