Google vs. China

[Romy]

I heard about the Google-China affairs, and about Google trying to dismiss the Chinese government's censor, and I even heard of an ultimatum Google presented, but I didn't think that will be the result:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/03/22/google.china/index.html?hpt=C1

 

[hide]Google on Monday announced it has stopped censoring search results in China.

 

The announcement came amid speculation that the search giant would pull out of China entirely and sets up a showdown with the Communist leadership there.

 

In a 3:03 p.m. ET post on its official blog, Google said it stopped running the censored Google.cn service on Monday and was routing its Chinese users to an uncensored version of Google based in Hong Kong.

 

"We want as many people in the world as possible to have access to our services, including users in mainland China, yet the Chinese government has been crystal clear throughout our discussions that self-censorship is a non-negotiable legal requirement," said Senior Vice President David Drummond, Google's chief legal officer, on the blog.

 

Google hopes the move "will meaningfully increase access to information for people in China," Drummond wrote.

 

"We very much hope that the Chinese government respects our decision, though we are well aware that it could at any time block access to our services," he added.

 

Google said it would be carefully monitoring to see if access to the site is blocked in mainland China.

 

Early reports from China on Monday suggested that the Chinese government was already restricting access to Google's Hong Kong-based site, said Eddan Katz, International Affairs Director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

 

"We've already heard indications that visitors to Google.hk are getting 'can't find page' errors," he said.

 

The company on Monday also launched a dashboard page, which it promises to update regularly each day, that will show which Google services are available in China. According to the page, YouTube, Google Sites and Google's Blogger apps were blocked Monday afternoon.

 

Observers said Google's actions amounts to a de facto withdrawal from China by putting the ball in the court of a Chinese regime that virtually everyone expects will begin censoring search results on the site.

 

Ron Diebert, director of the Citizen Lab at the University of Toronto, which studies the intersection of digital policy and human rights, said Google's move didn't come as a surprise.

 

"It's become unsustainable for Google to operate in this environment," he said. "They've made a decision that the risks are too great for them, so they're going to pull out."

 

Google launched Google.cn, its China effort, in 2006 amid complaints that its devotion to Web freedom was being subverted by a willingness to comply with Chinese censorship in return for access to a huge potential customer base.

 

The company, whose slogan is "don't be evil," countered that by operating in limited form, it gave Chinese users more information than than they would have had otherwise. Google also hoped its presence would speed a move toward online freedom in China.

 

In January, Google announced that the company and at least 20 others were victims of a "highly sophisticated and targeted attack" originating in China in mid-December, evidently to gain access to the e-mail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.

 

The company said the attacker or attackers gained access to the header -- or subject-line information -- from the e-mails of two human rights activists through the Google network.

 

As a result, the company said, it was no longer willing to abide by the filters that the Chinese government demanded on certain searches before allowing Google to operate in the country.

 

For a brief time afterward, Google.cn was retrieving results for sensitive topics including the 1989 crackdown at Tiananmen Square, the Dalai Lama and the banned Falun Gong spiritual movement. But about a day later, search results appeared to return to normal.

 

Advocates of Internet freedoms cheered Google's move Monday.

 

"It demonstrates that a company like Google, with the business stakes in a market as large as China, can make the decision that free and open Internet is a better business alternative and a better ethical choice for its users," said Katz of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which promotes free speech online.

 

Internet users naturally gravitate toward sites that offer unrestricted access to information, he said. "This is an example of how the genie can't be put back in the bottle."

 

Diebert, who co-founded the OpenNet Initiative, said China's next move may not be to just block access to Google but to go a step further: blocking all outside search engines from accessing Web information in China.

 

"If such a radical measure happens, that would have major implications for cyberspace as a whole," he said. "It would point to a more regionalized Internet" and perhaps embolden countries like Iran to follow suit, Diebert said.

 

Google.cn is the preferred search tool for about 13 percent of Chinese Web users, according to a state-sponsored survey. Baidu.com, a government-friendly Chinese search engine, dominates the market in mainland China with about 77 percent of users, the survey said.

 

Google's announcement had been widely anticipated. Internet companies operating in China face a March 31 deadline to renew licenses to operate in the country, according to the Beijing Communications Administration.

 

The blog post by Drummond said Google plans to continue research and development work in China and to maintain a limited sales presence there.

 

In an apparent attempt to deflect blame for the decision from Google employees still living in China, the post specified that the decision was made by Google's top brass in the United States.

 

"Despite all the uncertainty and difficulties they have faced since we made our announcement in January, [Google's China employees] have continued to focus on serving our Chinese users and customers," the blog said. "We are immensely proud of them."[/hide]

[PoorLepRecon]

Google will be blocked and the world will move on. That's the easy solution for the Chinese government. Kudos to Google for stopping the censorship though.

[Skull]

Good for Google. Sure, China won't allow it, but it's good that they're willing to take a stand despite that. I just hope they don't soften their position.

 

Unfortunately it could very well backfire and lead to China just censoring the [cabbage] out of everything.

[Romy]

Good for Google. Sure, China won't allow it, but it's good that they're willing to take a stand despite that. I just hope they don't soften their position.

 

Unfortunately it could very well backfire and lead to China just censoring the [cabbage] out of everything.

 

Yeah, which I hope won't happen.

[PoorLepRecon]

Good for Google. Sure, China won't allow it, but it's good that they're willing to take a stand despite that. I just hope they don't soften their position.

 

Unfortunately it could very well backfire and lead to China just censoring the [cabbage] out of everything.

 

Don't they already censor the [cabbage] out of everything?

[Abc1230]

Inb4Chinese Spongebob :lol:

[Skull]

Good for Google. Sure, China won't allow it, but it's good that they're willing to take a stand despite that. I just hope they don't soften their position.

 

Unfortunately it could very well backfire and lead to China just censoring the [cabbage] out of everything.

 

Don't they already censor the [cabbage] out of everything?

Well, to a greater extreme than they already are. Doing things like blocking all search engines, all blogging sites, preventing access to any sites from certain countries, and eventually making it so the only websites that can be accessed are those run by the Chinese government themselves. Basically allowing China to put their spin on the past, modify current events to their liking, and even to try to bend the future to how they want it.

 

Unlikely that it will be that extreme, but I'm honestly not all that up to date on Chinese affairs and their stance on the internet. It's something I've been meaning to put some more research into.

[Lenticular_J]

Hasn't Google already pussied out and fled the country, taking absolutely none of the tea in China with them?

[PoorLepRecon]

Hasn't Google already pussied out and fled the country, taking absolutely none of the tea in China with them?

 

Well, they're in Hong Kong right now. I can't remember where Hong Kong is politically with China.

[1_man_army]

They have the one country two systems policy with Hong Kong. Hong Kong (along with Macau) has some additional freedoms that the mainland doesn't.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country_two_systems#Framework

[The Dark Lord]

They have the one country two systems policy with Hong Kong. Hong Kong (along with Macau) has some additional freedoms that the mainland doesn't.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country_two_systems#Framework

 

Unfortunately, it's only temporary. I feel sorry for those who live in Hong Kong whenever the "maintain their way of life for X amount of time" agreement between the former British Empire and the People's Republic of China expires.

 

Kudos to Google for violating the Chinese government's demands and educating the Chinese people about Tienanmen Square by listing it as a result.

[Alg]

Wonder how the Chinese will react to the brief flow of information.

[The Dark Lord]

Wonder how the Chinese will react to the brief flow of information.

 

The government or the people?

 

[hide=The government will react in the same way as you will when you see this, epilepsy beware][/hide]

 

The people will probably have fun.

[Romy]

Wonder how the Chinese will react to the brief flow of information.

 

The government or the people?

 

[hide=The government will react in the same way as you will when you see this, epilepsy beware][/hide]

 

The people will probably have fun.

 

I can't see the picture :/....

[Youmu]

Eeeyah, why does the Chinese government have to do all this crap? Me likes my regular sites, kthx.

 

I really want to move out of China now... this place is just getting worse and worse.

 

At least Google is actually taking action on this, unlike Youtube.

[Romy]

Eeeyah, why does the Chinese government have to do all this crap? Me likes my regular sites, kthx.

 

I really want to move out of China now... this place is just getting worse and worse.

 

At least Google is actually taking action on this, unlike Youtube.

 

Google IS YouTube....

[Diesel]

At least Google is actually taking action on this, unlike Youtube.

 

Isn't Youtube owned by Google? So wouldn't it be in the same boat as all Google-run sites?

 

EDIT: sniped by romy :P

[obfuscator]

Unsuprising. I assume Google will be pulling out shortly.

[qeltar]

Eeeyah, why does the Chinese government have to do all this crap? Me likes my regular sites, kthx.

You may not have noticed before, but your government consists of power-hungry control-freak dictators. Even worse than ours. ;)

[Guthorm]

Eh progress has to be made slowly, I still doubt that google would take a stand because of human rights. China has a huge market and they know it, why would they forsaken so much profit? Unless they are not able to compete with the native search engines, I am just assuming here.

[qeltar]

why would they forsaken so much profit?

Because they are principled, already make enough money, and are willing to give some up to not give in to the freedom-hating scumbag Chinese government?

[Guthorm]

why would they forsaken so much profit?

Because they are principled, already make enough money, and are willing to give some up to not give in to the freedom-hating scumbag Chinese government?

 

Maybe, but I am not buying it.

[Skeptical]

Good on Google for standing up to Chinese oppression. I'm guessing that they'll fold, but I really do hope that I'm wrong.

[The Dark Lord]

Eeeyah, why does the Chinese government have to do all this crap? Me likes my regular sites, kthx.

You may not have noticed before, but your government consists of power-hungry control-freak dictators. Even worse than ours. ;)

 

Not to mention that your system is a living bastardization of communism, although I'm not a big fan of communism myself.

[TTanT]

why would they forsaken so much profit?

Because they are principled, already make enough money, and are willing to give some up to not give in to the freedom-hating scumbag Chinese government?

 

Maybe, but I am not buying it.

Neither is China. :roll: