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Hamas executes 2 for Israeli collaboration


Romy

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1. The media is not pro-Israel. I don't see a point in elaborating here since I said it isn't, and your response was "it is".

Really it isn't? The recent thing about the Israeli assassins was the only negative thing I've ever seen on the news that was really criticized. Just last year Israel bombed i think it was Gaza for 13 days, supposedly because Hamas launched a missile into Israel(lets be clear I'm not saying they didn't but if i remember correctly nobody was killed by it) The final toll was over 1000 dead Palestinian civilians including women and children, and you could even argue that some were militants, and 7 yes, SEVEN dead Israelis. But no one ever said wait "what the hell?!" also you'll never see pictures like this in the media. Here's a hint, if you live in America, YOU payed for that tank, and no he isn't throwing a grenade that's a rock. Everyone has seen the video of the student blocking the tanks going to Tienanmen square, but then why haven't you seen this? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO! I'm sorry but if you truly believe that American media isn't biased toward Israel you're just ignorant. Also lets be clear I don't support any terrorist organization for ANY cause no matter how justified it seems. palestine-boy_vs_tank.jpg

 

You're very misinformed then.

 

That operation Israel took over Gaza, which is called "Oferet Yetzuka" by the way, wasn't about 1 rocket, it was about 8 constant years of rockets launched at Sderot, an Israeli city- at citizens. The average number of rockets thrown per week was 2. Can you imagine your city experiencing rocket attacks twice a week?

 

And the international media frowned endlessly about it, half of the daily Israeli news broadcasts were dedicated to what the world thinks of it, and how the international media covers it.

 

 

As for your statement about tanks- not at all. Most of Israel's security budget is definitely not coming from the USA.

 

Lastly, that picture is deceiving. The tank is clearly not after the kid.

 

 

EDIT: By the way, Hamas promised to stop shooting at Sderot from Gaza if Israel ends the operation. Rockets were launched again 3 days later.

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Was Israel Ever Legitimate?

 

 

 

 

 

Also id like people to think about this question,

 

Has the existence of Israel since 1948 made the world a safer place?

 

I can't believe someone seriously wrote that. The facts there couldn't be any more wrong, the article writer took a quote of Netanyahu, completely spinned it, and then drew conclusions. I stopped taking it seriously after seeing the article started with-

"The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who-even now-identify their interests with this extremist enclave."

And later continued with-

"More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the "fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders" and their plans for "Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.""

And then-

"Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt."

 

Not only is it wrong, but frankly I find it funny anyone truely believes the "facts" presented there.

 

This article is just filled with senseless bashing and biased hatred based on nothing.

 

 

 

 

Next time, please atleast present an article that has it's facts right.

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1. The media is not pro-Israel. I don't see a point in elaborating here since I said it isn't, and your response was "it is".

Really it isn't? The recent thing about the Israeli assassins was the only negative thing I've ever seen on the news that was really criticized. Just last year Israel bombed i think it was Gaza for 13 days, supposedly because Hamas launched a missile into Israel(lets be clear I'm not saying they didn't but if i remember correctly nobody was killed by it) The final toll was over 1000 dead Palestinian civilians including women and children, and you could even argue that some were militants, and 7 yes, SEVEN dead Israelis. But no one ever said wait "what the hell?!" also you'll never see pictures like this in the media. Here's a hint, if you live in America, YOU payed for that tank, and no he isn't throwing a grenade that's a rock. Everyone has seen the video of the student blocking the tanks going to Tienanmen square, but then why haven't you seen this? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO! I'm sorry but if you truly believe that American media isn't biased toward Israel you're just ignorant. Also lets be clear I don't support any terrorist organization for ANY cause no matter how justified it seems. palestine-boy_vs_tank.jpg

 

You're very misinformed then.

 

That operation Israel took over Gaza, which is called "Oferet Yetzuka" by the way, wasn't about 1 rocket, it was about 8 constant years of rockets launched at Sderot, an Israeli city- at citizens. The average number of rockets thrown per week was 2. Can you imagine your city experiencing rocket attacks twice a week?

 

And the international media frowned endlessly about it, half of the daily Israeli news broadcasts were dedicated to what the world thinks of it, and how the international media covers it.

 

 

As for your statement about tanks- not at all. Most of Israel's security budget is definitely not coming from the USA.

 

Lastly, that picture is deceiving. The tank is clearly not after the kid.

 

 

EDIT: By the way, Hamas promised to stop shooting at Sderot from Gaza if Israel ends the operation. Rockets were launched again 3 days later.

I don't know if it gets most of it from us but Israel still gets a ridiculous amount of money from us. Also I never said nor thought the tank was going after the kid. 60-70 tons of metal going after 150 pounds of meat? Ya its not worth their time. What you choose to believe is your business, i personally believe the state of Israel never should have existed, but it's too late now and the solution won't be simple.

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God dammit Seany, STOP SHARING MY MIND

" I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin. I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... I'm a monster.What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."

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Was Israel Ever Legitimate?

 

 

 

 

 

Also id like people to think about this question,

 

Has the existence of Israel since 1948 made the world a safer place?

 

I can't believe someone seriously wrote that. The facts there couldn't be any more wrong, the article writer took a quote of Netanyahu, completely spinned it, and then drew conclusions. I stopped taking it seriously after seeing the article started with-

"The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who-even now-identify their interests with this extremist enclave."

And later continued with-

"More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the "fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders" and their plans for "Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.""

And then-

"Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt."

 

Not only is it wrong, but frankly I find it funny anyone truely believes the "facts" presented there.

 

This article is just filled with senseless bashing and biased hatred based on nothing.

 

 

 

 

Next time, please atleast present an article that has it's facts right.

 

1) your arguments against everyone else who opposes Israel diplomatic issues are a simple matter of only your opinion just like the author of the article i posted

 

2) many others will agree and disagre with your point of view as well as mine, the difference is you do not have any respect for those who disagree with ur point of view by trying to bash their arguments and belittle them

 

3) At least a great deal of 1st world countries are not blind by the corruption and atrocities Israel commits against the Palestinians unlike the U.S. (who's media is heavily controlled by the Jews)

 

4) You would think the Jewish people would learn from the Holocaust but instead theyre committing a new kind of holocaust towards the Palestinians while the world turns a blind eye all in the name of "self-defense" and kill 1000s of innocent palestinians because of a few radicals trying to destroy israel

 

5) Romy, I gotta admit you probably get off bashing all the people who blast Israel as well as the article i posted but you seemed to have purposely not answered my important question.

 

6) Romy, you are a tool

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Was Israel Ever Legitimate?

 

 

 

 

 

Also id like people to think about this question,

 

Has the existence of Israel since 1948 made the world a safer place?

 

I can't believe someone seriously wrote that. The facts there couldn't be any more wrong, the article writer took a quote of Netanyahu, completely spinned it, and then drew conclusions. I stopped taking it seriously after seeing the article started with-

"The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who-even now-identify their interests with this extremist enclave."

And later continued with-

"More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the "fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders" and their plans for "Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.""

And then-

"Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt."

 

Not only is it wrong, but frankly I find it funny anyone truely believes the "facts" presented there.

 

This article is just filled with senseless bashing and biased hatred based on nothing.

 

 

 

 

Next time, please atleast present an article that has it's facts right.

 

1) your arguments against everyone else who opposes Israel diplomatic issues are a simple matter of only your opinion just like the author of the article i posted

 

2) many others will agree and disagre with your point of view as well as mine, the difference is you do not have any respect for those who disagree with ur point of view by trying to bash their arguments and belittle them

 

3) At least a great deal of 1st world countries are not blind by the corruption and atrocities Israel commits against the Palestinians unlike the U.S. (who's media is heavily controlled by the Jews)

 

4) You would think the Jewish people would learn from the Holocaust but instead theyre committing a new kind of holocaust towards the Palestinians while the world turns a blind eye all in the name of "self-defense" and kill 1000s of innocent palestinians because of a few radicals trying to destroy israel

 

5) Romy, I gotta admit you probably get off bashing all the people who blast Israel as well as the article i posted but you seemed to have purposely not answered my important question.

 

6) Romy, you are a tool

I like you hahaha

minus statement 6

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He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked... Your daily life is your temple and your religion
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1. The media is not pro-Israel. I don't see a point in elaborating here since I said it isn't, and your response was "it is".

Really it isn't? The recent thing about the Israeli assassins was the only negative thing I've ever seen on the news that was really criticized. Just last year Israel bombed i think it was Gaza for 13 days, supposedly because Hamas launched a missile into Israel(lets be clear I'm not saying they didn't but if i remember correctly nobody was killed by it) The final toll was over 1000 dead Palestinian civilians including women and children, and you could even argue that some were militants, and 7 yes, SEVEN dead Israelis. But no one ever said wait "what the hell?!" also you'll never see pictures like this in the media. Here's a hint, if you live in America, YOU payed for that tank, and no he isn't throwing a grenade that's a rock. Everyone has seen the video of the student blocking the tanks going to Tienanmen square, but then why haven't you seen this? BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO! I'm sorry but if you truly believe that American media isn't biased toward Israel you're just ignorant. Also lets be clear I don't support any terrorist organization for ANY cause no matter how justified it seems. palestine-boy_vs_tank.jpg

 

You're very misinformed then.

 

That operation Israel took over Gaza, which is called "Oferet Yetzuka" by the way, wasn't about 1 rocket, it was about 8 constant years of rockets launched at Sderot, an Israeli city- at citizens. The average number of rockets thrown per week was 2. Can you imagine your city experiencing rocket attacks twice a week?

 

And the international media frowned endlessly about it, half of the daily Israeli news broadcasts were dedicated to what the world thinks of it, and how the international media covers it.

 

 

As for your statement about tanks- not at all. Most of Israel's security budget is definitely not coming from the USA.

 

Lastly, that picture is deceiving. The tank is clearly not after the kid.

 

 

EDIT: By the way, Hamas promised to stop shooting at Sderot from Gaza if Israel ends the operation. Rockets were launched again 3 days later.

I don't know if it gets most of it from us but Israel still gets a ridiculous amount of money from us. Also I never said nor thought the tank was going after the kid. 60-70 tons of metal going after 150 pounds of meat? Ya its not worth their time. What you choose to believe is your business, i personally believe the state of Israel never should have existed, but it's too late now and the solution won't be simple.

 

Your "it's not worth their time" statement implies you think they'd go after him, but since he's only one/only a child, they don't. Execuse me, but I find it rediculous. The Israeli army is not after these things and anyone who thinks differently is a fool.

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An old country song goes - Politics can start a fight, Religion no one knows who is right.

 

I want to play.

 

1) your arguments against everyone else who opposes Israel diplomatic issues are a simple matter of only your opinion just like the author of the article i posted

- It's a simple fact that outside of the bible belt part of the united states and isreal, they are not too loved worldwide - I'm going to leave my personal religious views out of this and simply say - Surrounded by countires that hate you - you can't exactly play nice. Isreals done some dirty and unethical things, so has every country they have done it to - get over it - really. In all likelyhood peace in the middle-east will never be achieved.. Christianity predicts an end times prophecy for it to happen, Nostradamus also says middle east peace will be the start of the third world war unless i am mistaken.

 

2) many others will agree and disagre with your point of view as well as mine, the difference is you do not have any respect for those who disagree with ur point of view by trying to bash their arguments and belittle them

- Many people get wound up over issues, personally to me - this is an issue that has little bearing on my everyday life - but issues mean different things to different people - and i don't find all of them that interesting, but sometimes people stake a stand to the point of martyrdom for whats right. I respect that.

 

3) At least a great deal of 1st world countries are not blind by the corruption and atrocities Israel commits against the Palestinians unlike the U.S. (who's media is heavily controlled by the Jews)

- The USA has gotten lots of flak for isreal loving, and personally I don't blame jewish media but as a christian (baptist)- I can tell you right now the good book places heavy emphasis on who supports or confronts isreal - it's a major political issue down here.

4) You would think the Jewish people would learn from the Holocaust but instead theyre committing a new kind of holocaust towards the Palestinians while the world turns a blind eye all in the name of "self-defense" and kill 1000s of innocent palestinians because of a few radicals trying to destroy israel

- You would think america would of learned from Vietnam that not every war can be won. I once knew someone who was a part of the IDF - They don't exactly live a semi-charmed kind of life over there, and it's not like they are rounding up Palestinians in cages, starving them - gassing them and other atrocities. Thats a heavy handed comparison really that borders on racism or bigotry to me. If someone made a post about putting a black man in chains where he belongs, 5 bucks it would of been reported and the person who posted it would of been flamed...Yet in topics concerning the middle east i notice that gets overlooked. It's no worse than the genocide that goes on in Africa daily. Every Human life is precious.

 

 

Lastly

4)Israel gets away with invasions
- People still die on both sides, it's not like they walk out unscathed. Some mothers son dies, some wifes husband doesnt return. War's [cabbage] for both sides mate.

 

 

~Das

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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Was Israel Ever Legitimate?

 

 

 

 

 

Also id like people to think about this question,

 

Has the existence of Israel since 1948 made the world a safer place?

 

I can't believe someone seriously wrote that. The facts there couldn't be any more wrong, the article writer took a quote of Netanyahu, completely spinned it, and then drew conclusions. I stopped taking it seriously after seeing the article started with-

"The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who-even now-identify their interests with this extremist enclave."

And later continued with-

"More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the "fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders" and their plans for "Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.""

And then-

"Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt."

 

Not only is it wrong, but frankly I find it funny anyone truely believes the "facts" presented there.

 

This article is just filled with senseless bashing and biased hatred based on nothing.

 

 

 

 

Next time, please atleast present an article that has it's facts right.

 

1) your arguments against everyone else who opposes Israel diplomatic issues are a simple matter of only your opinion just like the author of the article i posted

 

2) many others will agree and disagre with your point of view as well as mine, the difference is you do not have any respect for those who disagree with ur point of view by trying to bash their arguments and belittle them

 

3) At least a great deal of 1st world countries are not blind by the corruption and atrocities Israel commits against the Palestinians unlike the U.S. (who's media is heavily controlled by the Jews)

 

4) You would think the Jewish people would learn from the Holocaust but instead theyre committing a new kind of holocaust towards the Palestinians while the world turns a blind eye all in the name of "self-defense" and kill 1000s of innocent palestinians because of a few radicals trying to destroy israel

 

5) Romy, I gotta admit you probably get off bashing all the people who blast Israel as well as the article i posted but you seemed to have purposely not answered my important question.

 

6) Romy, you are a tool

 

1. No, that's my opinion based on real facts, wheras the author is basing his/her opinion on false facts. Can you not see the difference?

 

2. If I didn't have any respect I wouldn't bother to answer their arguments. I'm not "bashing" their arguments, I'm counterpointing and answering. Belittle? You mean like say that the articles they presented are based on false facts? Sure, I do that.

 

3. Hey, guess what? "corruption and atrocities Israel" is clearly your opinion, which is presented in a very disrespectful way.... isn't that what you accused me for on #2? Atleast make sure your points don't contradict each other in a hypcritical kind of way.

 

I'm not going to adress your conspiracy theories.

 

4. Having studied about the holocaust from every single point of view that exists, having interviewed 20-some holocaust survivors, having read countless books and watched countless movies about it, I believe it's safe to say there's no point of comparison here, and any comparison that exists isn't based.

 

Oh, and these may be only because of a few radicals who try to destroy Israel (I'd argue against the 'few' part, but meh), but these radicals are hiding inside civillian homes, and launch their rockets at Sderot from there. Israel has two choices- leave it be, let it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, or understand the consequences of letting it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, understand that these radicals know hurting civillians is considered wrong and that's why they do that, and take the necessary steps in order to stop them, while being completely aware to the situation.

 

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying killing these 1,000 civillians was right, I'm saying there's no other choice.

 

5. I didn't answer your question because I thought you based it off that article. If you want my own opinion- I don't think it's made the world any safer than when the USA, Italy, Poland or Eygept were established, it's not about "safe". Countries are not established so the world will be a safer place, countries are establishsed on the basis of either- 1. An ideology (such as the USA). 2. A people without a country (such as Poland). I trust Israel fits both. To talk about safe? I'm not sure Iran or Iraq made it any safer, to say the least.

 

6. Yeah, same as 3, just more personal.

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I'm not even quite sure where to enter this debacle, although I'd rather address point 1. Where are these "facts", and how do we discern true and false?

I was going to eat hot dogs for dinner tonight. I think I will settle for cereal.

 

OPEN WIDE HERE COMES THE HELICOPTER.

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I know i shouldn't, but i know eventually i will anyway so might as well start while the day is young.

 

Was Israel Ever Legitimate?

 

 

 

 

 

Also id like people to think about this question,

 

Has the existence of Israel since 1948 made the world a safer place?

 

I can't believe someone seriously wrote that. The facts there couldn't be any more wrong, the article writer took a quote of Netanyahu, completely spinned it, and then drew conclusions. I stopped taking it seriously after seeing the article started with-

"The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who-even now-identify their interests with this extremist enclave."

And later continued with-

"More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the "fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders" and their plans for "Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.""

And then-

"Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt."

 

Not only is it wrong, but frankly I find it funny anyone truely believes the "facts" presented there.

 

This article is just filled with senseless bashing and biased hatred based on nothing.

 

 

 

 

Next time, please atleast present an article that has it's facts right.

 

1) your arguments against everyone else who opposes Israel diplomatic issues are a simple matter of only your opinion just like the author of the article i posted

 

2) many others will agree and disagre with your point of view as well as mine, the difference is you do not have any respect for those who disagree with ur point of view by trying to bash their arguments and belittle them

 

3) At least a great deal of 1st world countries are not blind by the corruption and atrocities Israel commits against the Palestinians unlike the U.S. (who's media is heavily controlled by the Jews)

 

4) You would think the Jewish people would learn from the Holocaust but instead theyre committing a new kind of holocaust towards the Palestinians while the world turns a blind eye all in the name of "self-defense" and kill 1000s of innocent palestinians because of a few radicals trying to destroy israel

 

5) Romy, I gotta admit you probably get off bashing all the people who blast Israel as well as the article i posted but you seemed to have purposely not answered my important question.

 

6) Romy, you are a tool

 

1. No, that's my opinion based on real facts, wheras the author is basing his/her opinion on false facts. Can you not see the difference?

 

2. If I didn't have any respect I wouldn't bother to answer their arguments. I'm not "bashing" their arguments, I'm counterpointing and answering. Belittle? You mean like say that the articles they presented are based on false facts? Sure, I do that.

 

3. Hey, guess what? "corruption and atrocities Israel" is clearly your opinion, which is presented in a very disrespectful way.... isn't that what you accused me for on #2? Atleast make sure your points don't contradict each other in a hypcritical kind of way.

 

I'm not going to adress your conspiracy theories.

 

4. Having studied about the holocaust from every single point of view that exists, having interviewed 20-some holocaust survivors, having read countless books and watched countless movies about it, I believe it's safe to say there's no point of comparison here, and any comparison that exists isn't based.

 

Oh, and these may be only because of a few radicals who try to destroy Israel (I'd argue against the 'few' part, but meh), but these radicals are hiding inside civillian homes, and launch their rockets at Sderot from there. Israel has two choices- leave it be, let it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, or understand the consequences of letting it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, understand that these radicals know hurting civillians is considered wrong and that's why they do that, and take the necessary steps in order to stop them, while being completely aware to the situation.

 

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying killing these 1,000 civillians was right, I'm saying there's no other choice.

 

5. I didn't answer your question because I thought you based it off that article. If you want my own opinion- I don't think it's made the world any safer than when the USA, Italy, Poland or Eygept were established, it's not about "safe". Countries are not established so the world will be a safer place, countries are establishsed on the basis of either- 1. An ideology (such as the USA). 2. A people without a country (such as Poland). I trust Israel fits both. To talk about safe? I'm not sure Iran or Iraq made it any safer, to say the least.

 

6. Yeah, same as 3, just more personal.

 

1- Rather then saying that everything the author says is based on 'false' facts as you call them, give us the 'real' facts and actually make a decent post rather then just screaming i'm right your wrong.

 

2- all i ever see from you regarding this subject is personal attacks and the i'm right your wrong attitude as i said above.

 

3- what would you have it say instead? I'm sorry we tried to be kind and peaceful and make it so you can't eat a decent meal never mind making a bomb so were gonna blast you all back to the stone age?

 

4-

 

Have you ever dealt with people who have lost everything in just an hour? In the morning you leave the house where your wife, your children, your parents live. You return and you find a smoking pit. Then something happens to you -to a certain exteny you stop being human. You do not need any glory, money anymore;revenge becomes your only joy. And because you no longer cling to life, death avoids you, bullets fly past. you become a wolf.

 

-rusian general aleksander lebed vet of afghanistan

 

The russians learned a long time ago that you you can't just expect to pacify a country with a scorched earth policy. Any one who survives will have lost everything and will make sure that when he joins his family in whatever afterlife he believes in he will take as many people with him as possible.

 

Unfortunatly the U.S. and israel have not learned this yet. Everytime an innocent is killed you make a dozen devils who will try to make you suffer as much as possible for the lives you do take.

 

Rather then just capet bomb an entire village to get one insurgant has no one in israel actually considered a tactical strike with spec or black ops to minamalize casualties?

michel555555.png

[spoiler=click you know you wanna]
Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!

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I know i shouldn't, but i know eventually i will anyway so might as well start while the day is young.

 

Was Israel Ever Legitimate?

 

 

 

 

 

Also id like people to think about this question,

 

Has the existence of Israel since 1948 made the world a safer place?

 

I can't believe someone seriously wrote that. The facts there couldn't be any more wrong, the article writer took a quote of Netanyahu, completely spinned it, and then drew conclusions. I stopped taking it seriously after seeing the article started with-

"The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who-even now-identify their interests with this extremist enclave."

And later continued with-

"More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the "fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders" and their plans for "Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.""

And then-

"Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt."

 

Not only is it wrong, but frankly I find it funny anyone truely believes the "facts" presented there.

 

This article is just filled with senseless bashing and biased hatred based on nothing.

 

 

 

 

Next time, please atleast present an article that has it's facts right.

 

1) your arguments against everyone else who opposes Israel diplomatic issues are a simple matter of only your opinion just like the author of the article i posted

 

2) many others will agree and disagre with your point of view as well as mine, the difference is you do not have any respect for those who disagree with ur point of view by trying to bash their arguments and belittle them

 

3) At least a great deal of 1st world countries are not blind by the corruption and atrocities Israel commits against the Palestinians unlike the U.S. (who's media is heavily controlled by the Jews)

 

4) You would think the Jewish people would learn from the Holocaust but instead theyre committing a new kind of holocaust towards the Palestinians while the world turns a blind eye all in the name of "self-defense" and kill 1000s of innocent palestinians because of a few radicals trying to destroy israel

 

5) Romy, I gotta admit you probably get off bashing all the people who blast Israel as well as the article i posted but you seemed to have purposely not answered my important question.

 

6) Romy, you are a tool

 

1. No, that's my opinion based on real facts, wheras the author is basing his/her opinion on false facts. Can you not see the difference?

 

2. If I didn't have any respect I wouldn't bother to answer their arguments. I'm not "bashing" their arguments, I'm counterpointing and answering. Belittle? You mean like say that the articles they presented are based on false facts? Sure, I do that.

 

3. Hey, guess what? "corruption and atrocities Israel" is clearly your opinion, which is presented in a very disrespectful way.... isn't that what you accused me for on #2? Atleast make sure your points don't contradict each other in a hypcritical kind of way.

 

I'm not going to adress your conspiracy theories.

 

4. Having studied about the holocaust from every single point of view that exists, having interviewed 20-some holocaust survivors, having read countless books and watched countless movies about it, I believe it's safe to say there's no point of comparison here, and any comparison that exists isn't based.

 

Oh, and these may be only because of a few radicals who try to destroy Israel (I'd argue against the 'few' part, but meh), but these radicals are hiding inside civillian homes, and launch their rockets at Sderot from there. Israel has two choices- leave it be, let it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, or understand the consequences of letting it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, understand that these radicals know hurting civillians is considered wrong and that's why they do that, and take the necessary steps in order to stop them, while being completely aware to the situation.

 

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying killing these 1,000 civillians was right, I'm saying there's no other choice.

 

5. I didn't answer your question because I thought you based it off that article. If you want my own opinion- I don't think it's made the world any safer than when the USA, Italy, Poland or Eygept were established, it's not about "safe". Countries are not established so the world will be a safer place, countries are establishsed on the basis of either- 1. An ideology (such as the USA). 2. A people without a country (such as Poland). I trust Israel fits both. To talk about safe? I'm not sure Iran or Iraq made it any safer, to say the least.

 

6. Yeah, same as 3, just more personal.

 

1- Rather then saying that everything the author says is based on 'false' facts as you call them, give us the 'real' facts and actually make a decent post rather then just screaming i'm right your wrong.

 

2- all i ever see from you regarding this subject is personal attacks and the i'm right your wrong attitude as i said above.

 

3- what would you have it say instead? I'm sorry we tried to be kind and peaceful and make it so you can't eat a decent meal never mind making a bomb so were gonna blast you all back to the stone age?

 

4-

 

Have you ever dealt with people who have lost everything in just an hour? In the morning you leave the house where your wife, your children, your parents live. You return and you find a smoking pit. Then something happens to you -to a certain exteny you stop being human. You do not need any glory, money anymore;revenge becomes your only joy. And because you no longer cling to life, death avoids you, bullets fly past. you become a wolf.

 

-rusian general aleksander lebed vet of afghanistan

 

The russians learned a long time ago that you you can't just expect to pacify a country with a scorched earth policy. Any one who survives will have lost everything and will make sure that when he joins his family in whatever afterlife he believes in he will take as many people with him as possible.

 

Unfortunatly the U.S. and israel have not learned this yet. Everytime an innocent is killed you make a dozen devils who will try to make you suffer as much as possible for the lives you do take.

 

Rather then just capet bomb an entire village to get one insurgant has no one in israel actually considered a tactical strike with spec or black ops to minamalize casualties?

 

1. I have done so, read up. Any fact presented by me on this thread can be checked, they're all definitely valid.

 

2. Care to show me?

 

3. I'm pretty sure I didn't get what you're trying to say here, so to avoid any misunderstandings, please clarify.

 

4. I don't think you fully understand the situation. Citizens and Hamas members all live together, most even hidden in citizens' homes. Weapons are stocked in the very same homes aswell. You can't minimize the damage when a "radical" uses a living child as a shield, it's either you shoot or you don't.

 

I'll repeat what I said before in a chronological way-

1. Sderot is bombed at, on an average of 2 rockets a week for 8 years.

2. Israel tries to stop the bombing in different ways, including using anti-missle missles (which unfortunately, aren't that affective because the location the missles are launched from is too close to the target).

3. Eventually Israel decides to react, and begins preparing for an operation- Oferet Yetzuka.

4. Israeli forces are sent to the Gaza strip.

5. After a period of about 3 weeks, Hamas agrees to stop attacking Sderot if Israel ends the operation.

6. The operation ends.

7. 3 days later, missles are launched at Sderot, again.

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Prepare for philosophy, [bleep]es.

 

You're all saying, oh 3 rockets launched this day, and then four rockets and then 2 rockets a week and 8 years and blah, blah, blah. But does anyone even know if that is true? Sure, you can cite online information, but who knows how factual that is? If anyone has read 1984, you will know exactly what I mean when I say that everything, everything we know could be absolute [cabbage].

 

So why do we keep arguing about it?

 

Execuse me? I was there, a missle literally hit a home right next to me when I visited Sderot. I also watch the news, and every rocket launched was covered the same day, with pictures, and witnesses interviewed about it.

 

As for citing online information. Sure, 1 source could be wrong, but you don't have to count on only 1 source.

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Prepare for philosophy, [bleep]es.

 

You're all saying, oh 3 rockets launched this day, and then four rockets and then 2 rockets a week and 8 years and blah, blah, blah. But does anyone even know if that is true? Sure, you can cite online information, but who knows how factual that is? If anyone has read 1984, you will know exactly what I mean when I say that everything, everything we know could be absolute [cabbage].

 

So why do we keep arguing about it?

 

Execuse me? I was there, a missle literally hit a home right next to me when I visited Sderot. I also watch the news, and every rocket launched was covered the same day, with pictures, and witnesses interviewed about it.

 

As for citing online information. Sure, 1 source could be wrong, but you don't have to count on only 1 source.

Maybe I'm nuts, but the point is that you shouldn't prance around saying "Look what they did!" when everything you've ever seen or known could be a lie.

 

How could it be a lie if I saw it with my own 2 eyes?

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Prepare for philosophy, [bleep]es.

 

You're all saying, oh 3 rockets launched this day, and then four rockets and then 2 rockets a week and 8 years and blah, blah, blah. But does anyone even know if that is true? Sure, you can cite online information, but who knows how factual that is? If anyone has read 1984, you will know exactly what I mean when I say that everything, everything we know could be absolute [cabbage].

 

So why do we keep arguing about it?

 

Execuse me? I was there, a missle literally hit a home right next to me when I visited Sderot. I also watch the news, and every rocket launched was covered the same day, with pictures, and witnesses interviewed about it.

 

As for citing online information. Sure, 1 source could be wrong, but you don't have to count on only 1 source.

Maybe I'm nuts, but the point is that you shouldn't prance around saying "Look what they did!" when everything you've ever seen or known could be a lie.

 

How could it be a lie if I saw it with my own 2 eyes?

Ok so you sight a missile that misses the target. My cousins who live across the street (not biologically my cousins but Middle Eastern people consider each other cousins when you're close) were forcefully removed from their houses and forced to leave their homeland to a quarantined area but they escaped to Jordan and took a plane here [they are Palestinian]. Which seems worse? Not only do the Israelis illegally settle they also forcefully remove people so that they may illegally settle. And this story is unique because I've heard almost the same story from like four different families with a slight variation to where they fled (some Syria, some Egypt, some Lebanon). How could the belligerent display of Israel injustice be a lie if these first hand testimonies so blatantly voice it?

 

Edit: And statistically speaking you're always making the statement about how most Palestinians don't want peace, I looked it up and I believe 9% more of their population supported negotiations for peace then Israeli citizenry prior to the 2006 War where you know, Israel wrongly molested Lebanon and almost destroyed Beirut, a stronghold for the Christians who are neutral to Israel as well, turning them anti-Zionist. Israel is so indiscriminate against anyone who is not a Jew that they dare attack Beirut and in effect offend the Christians, who have basically been fighting a 140yr. civil war with the Druze and Muslims who know comprise groups such as Hezbollah. Israel made Christians who annoyed that the President, who has to be Christian by law, seemed to be supportive of Hezbollah (and we hate Hezbollah)because they kicked the Israelis out last time. He then pointed out Israeli failure to implement many resolutions when they said Lebanon could not property implement Res. 1559. Israel never officially declared war on Lebanon since they were chasing Hezbollah but does one really have the right to forcibly press themselves into another's country all the way north and attack the capital?

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Sorry about the delay in responding, real life called to me.

 

Again, any land conquered by Israel was conquered through wars Israel did not initiate, with the exception of the Six Days War. If it's the illegal settlements you're referring to: I agree those are wrong, but trying to bring forward the discussion was tried by Israel, the Palestinians only agree to do it with pre-made conditions, as odd as that, Israel temporarily stopped the illegal settlements, so that discussion could be had. Nothing happend.

 

This sounds a little to me like: "I'll stop being a criminal to get what I want, when I don't get it I'll just go back to being a criminal again". Maybe I have expectations too high, but Israel does have the opportunity to be the better man, at least in regards to the illegal settlements. I admit its far less easy in regards to the invasions.

Like those that were made for giving up the Gaza strip, Sinaï, and other lands? Both sides had broken peace treaties, there's no point in accusing one side.

 

I guess I'm playing Devil's advocate here - I don't mean to say Palestine is innocent. A lot of people have the conception that Israel is purely a victim - and the way Israel reacts to Palestinian action (and vice versa) follows a childish pattern: "he started it!!!" "no he did!!!" etc etc....which isn't going anywhere.

 

A. Bombing Sderot became something that's done on a daily basis, with the sole purpose of hurting Israeli citizens.

B. These civilian neighbourhoods were used by Hamas members to cover for themselves- So should Israel just not do anything, so not to hurt civilians, despite the fact that the other side had done so for 8 whole years?

I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying there's no other choice.

And I agree - its unfathomable that Israel would stop retaliating. But here's my question: Let's say 100 Israelis died every month from the rocket strikes, back when Israel was not retaliating.

 

What's happening now? Now 1000 Palestinians are dying every month - but those 100 Israelis are dying too. It doesn't seem like their current strategy is very effective.

 

I mean....I have no easy answers for this. It's unlikely an Israeli government that refused to retaliate would be able to maintain popular support - it just seems to me that something's gotta give - someone has to be willing to try to embrace a drastic makeover of the way the situation is handled - and I think that Israel is in a better position to do so.

 

I feel like a broken record, but that's something I can assure you every first world country does, including the USA- Israel just got caught.

You're probably right, I'll give you that one.

 

I'd love you to keep listing then.

I could Google "human rights offenses committed by Israel" and list them for you, but I don't see where this point is going so I won't. And I suppose you could do it yourself if you're genuinely curious.

 

Ofcourse not, Israel had done wrong many, many times, I never said Israel is just a victim here.

I can tell you I'm personally extremely furious at some of Israel's doings, but I believe that despite everything (on both sides), peace can be achieved if wanted.

 

I agree completely - and I think that in order for peace to be achieved Israel will have to be the better man - and that could involve political suicide and a lot of sacrifice...but if it works in the end, it would be worth it.

 

They didn't invade, they received the right to establish a country by the UN.

 

And of course, the UN gave away their own land. And of course, they consulted Palestine first.

 

In terms of "assistance", yes, you are correct - there was no military assitance. But the social, economic, and other assistance has been huge. I'll believe that Israel isn't being given special treatment when Iran openly has nukes but is allowed to skip out on a nuclear deweaponization summit.

Do you seriously believe Iran should own nukes? Can you not see anything wrong with that?

Maybe it's just me, but I feel safe when countries like USA, France, and Israel own nukes, but I'd be terrified if Iran owned nukes...

 

Nuclear weapons should be abolished. It terrifies me that anyone owns them - Iran is the dog that's all bark and no bite - the states is the dog that's all bite and no bark. Make no mistake, if it ever comes to the point where the states has a "good reason" to use nukes, they will.

 

Israel has peace as it's interest, I have no doubt of that...it is the methods I object to. They have proven time and time again they are not willing to be the better man,

Israel is willing to sit and discuss, I don't see what else you expect.

I expect them to be the better man - and to stop the violence to find a solution. I'm not saying it's easy, but I do think it's time for a new approach.

 

 

and that they must retaliate, time and time again,

Again, Sderot was bombed at for 8 years before Israel did anything- Oferet Yetzuka. Hamas had agreed to stop bombing Sderot if Israel stops that operation. Israel stopped and 3 days later Sderot was bombed again.

And here is where Israel needs to be the better man - that kind of change cannot be instant - it will take months, or years - before Palestinian civilians manage to do that. I highly doubt that bombing was condoned by the Palestinian government.

 

commiting human rights offenses shunned by other developed countries.

I don't get it? When Israel commits human rights offenses you're stunned, but when the rest do you're not?...Why?

 

You think the US would attack without any regards to human rights? Do you not see the stories in the news? The commissions, the inquireies, the panels, the shouts of war crimes at the slightest provocation? The citizens keep the US in line. They may invade, yes, but with far more respect for their opponents than Israel has otherwise shown.

I don't think you understand how serious this is. A city of innocent citizens was getting attacked by bombs and constantly, for eight years. I can only imagine the American people reacting one way if that ever happend to say... Seattle.

Yes, I do think the USA would attack without paying much attention to human rights given that situation, all countries would.

 

And they have (iraq war/911). And how's that working out for them?

 

Of course Palestine won't be happy with dual states - why should they have to give up which is theirs? Any agreement less than palestine regaining control of the entire region gives palestine the short end of the stick and Israel the gain.

 

You expect one side to agree to help it's enemy at getting stronger, even though you claim that side won't be happy until the other is destroyed?

 

I never said Israel should help Palestine get stronger, all I'm trying to say is that any diplomatic solution ends up shafting Palestine in the long run.

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My dad's good friends lived in Israel, until one day Hezbollah (sp) came to their house and said if you don't leave the country right now we'll kill you. They couldn't take anything with them, happens all the time tbh, and I'm sick of people siding with Hamas and Hezbollah (not on this thread I guess). Hamas and Hezbollah are just... Whats the word... scoundrel...esque? They fight dirty, killing kids etc, even though it is "war" they still shouldn't be such douchebags. Kinda off topic I suppose.

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Prepare for philosophy, [bleep]es.

 

You're all saying, oh 3 rockets launched this day, and then four rockets and then 2 rockets a week and 8 years and blah, blah, blah. But does anyone even know if that is true? Sure, you can cite online information, but who knows how factual that is? If anyone has read 1984, you will know exactly what I mean when I say that everything, everything we know could be absolute [cabbage].

 

So why do we keep arguing about it?

 

Execuse me? I was there, a missle literally hit a home right next to me when I visited Sderot. I also watch the news, and every rocket launched was covered the same day, with pictures, and witnesses interviewed about it.

 

As for citing online information. Sure, 1 source could be wrong, but you don't have to count on only 1 source.

Maybe I'm nuts, but the point is that you shouldn't prance around saying "Look what they did!" when everything you've ever seen or known could be a lie.

 

How could it be a lie if I saw it with my own 2 eyes?

Ok so you sight a missile that misses the target. My cousins who live across the street (not biologically my cousins but Middle Eastern people consider each other cousins when you're close) were forcefully removed from their houses and forced to leave their homeland to a quarantined area but they escaped to Jordan and took a plane here [they are Palestinian]. Which seems worse? Not only do the Israelis illegally settle they also forcefully remove people so that they may illegally settle. And this story is unique because I've heard almost the same story from like four different families with a slight variation to where they fled (some Syria, some Egypt, some Lebanon). How could the belligerent display of Israel injustice be a lie if these first hand testimonies so blatantly voice it?

 

I told you, I'm all against the illegal settlements, I think they're incredibly wrong on Israel's part and should be stopped ASAP. However, the illegal settlements CAN be stopped, through negotiations. And negotiations can be had, if only both sides wish to- and without pre-made terms.

 

I agree Israel could and should stop those even without first discussing it, but knowing my people, and knowing my religion, they simply wouldn't agree, and I regret that.

 

Edit: And statistically speaking you're always making the statement about how most Palestinians don't want peace, I looked it up and I believe 9% more of their population supported negotiations for peace then Israeli citizenry prior to the 2006 War where you know, Israel wrongly molested Lebanon and almost destroyed Beirut, a stronghold for the Christians who are neutral to Israel as well, turning them anti-Zionist. Israel is so indiscriminate against anyone who is not a Jew that they dare attack Beirut and in effect offend the Christians, who have basically been fighting a 140yr. civil war with the Druze and Muslims who know comprise groups such as Hezbollah. Israel made Christians who annoyed that the President, who has to be Christian by law, seemed to be supportive of Hezbollah (and we hate Hezbollah)because they kicked the Israelis out last time. He then pointed out Israeli failure to implement many resolutions when they said Lebanon could not property implement Res. 1559. Israel never officially declared war on Lebanon since they were chasing Hezbollah but does one really have the right to forcibly press themselves into another's country all the way north and attack the capital?

 

I admit that I could be wrong on this one, I never checked it, only said what seems most probable to me.

 

I assume you're referring to the war of October with that? It's war, when you can move forward, you do. Israel reached about 40 Kilometers away from Beirut, and could stay there. However, it did not, and not because it had to.

This war wasn't even initiated by Israel and came as quite a surprise, which led to an incredible amount of life losses throughout the war.

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[hide]

 

I know i shouldn't, but i know eventually i will anyway so might as well start while the day is young.

 

Was Israel Ever Legitimate?

 

 

 

 

 

Also id like people to think about this question,

 

Has the existence of Israel since 1948 made the world a safer place?

 

I can't believe someone seriously wrote that. The facts there couldn't be any more wrong, the article writer took a quote of Netanyahu, completely spinned it, and then drew conclusions. I stopped taking it seriously after seeing the article started with-

"The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who-even now-identify their interests with this extremist enclave."

And later continued with-

"More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the "fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders" and their plans for "Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.""

And then-

"Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt."

 

Not only is it wrong, but frankly I find it funny anyone truely believes the "facts" presented there.

 

This article is just filled with senseless bashing and biased hatred based on nothing.

 

 

 

 

Next time, please atleast present an article that has it's facts right.

 

1) your arguments against everyone else who opposes Israel diplomatic issues are a simple matter of only your opinion just like the author of the article i posted

 

2) many others will agree and disagre with your point of view as well as mine, the difference is you do not have any respect for those who disagree with ur point of view by trying to bash their arguments and belittle them

 

3) At least a great deal of 1st world countries are not blind by the corruption and atrocities Israel commits against the Palestinians unlike the U.S. (who's media is heavily controlled by the Jews)

 

4) You would think the Jewish people would learn from the Holocaust but instead theyre committing a new kind of holocaust towards the Palestinians while the world turns a blind eye all in the name of "self-defense" and kill 1000s of innocent palestinians because of a few radicals trying to destroy israel

 

5) Romy, I gotta admit you probably get off bashing all the people who blast Israel as well as the article i posted but you seemed to have purposely not answered my important question.

 

6) Romy, you are a tool

 

1. No, that's my opinion based on real facts, wheras the author is basing his/her opinion on false facts. Can you not see the difference?

 

2. If I didn't have any respect I wouldn't bother to answer their arguments. I'm not "bashing" their arguments, I'm counterpointing and answering. Belittle? You mean like say that the articles they presented are based on false facts? Sure, I do that.

 

3. Hey, guess what? "corruption and atrocities Israel" is clearly your opinion, which is presented in a very disrespectful way.... isn't that what you accused me for on #2? Atleast make sure your points don't contradict each other in a hypcritical kind of way.

 

I'm not going to adress your conspiracy theories.

 

4. Having studied about the holocaust from every single point of view that exists, having interviewed 20-some holocaust survivors, having read countless books and watched countless movies about it, I believe it's safe to say there's no point of comparison here, and any comparison that exists isn't based.

 

Oh, and these may be only because of a few radicals who try to destroy Israel (I'd argue against the 'few' part, but meh), but these radicals are hiding inside civillian homes, and launch their rockets at Sderot from there. Israel has two choices- leave it be, let it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, or understand the consequences of letting it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, understand that these radicals know hurting civillians is considered wrong and that's why they do that, and take the necessary steps in order to stop them, while being completely aware to the situation.

 

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying killing these 1,000 civillians was right, I'm saying there's no other choice.

 

5. I didn't answer your question because I thought you based it off that article. If you want my own opinion- I don't think it's made the world any safer than when the USA, Italy, Poland or Eygept were established, it's not about "safe". Countries are not established so the world will be a safer place, countries are establishsed on the basis of either- 1. An ideology (such as the USA). 2. A people without a country (such as Poland). I trust Israel fits both. To talk about safe? I'm not sure Iran or Iraq made it any safer, to say the least.

 

6. Yeah, same as 3, just more personal.

 

1- Rather then saying that everything the author says is based on 'false' facts as you call them, give us the 'real' facts and actually make a decent post rather then just screaming i'm right your wrong.

 

2- all i ever see from you regarding this subject is personal attacks and the i'm right your wrong attitude as i said above.

 

3- what would you have it say instead? I'm sorry we tried to be kind and peaceful and make it so you can't eat a decent meal never mind making a bomb so were gonna blast you all back to the stone age?

 

4-

 

Have you ever dealt with people who have lost everything in just an hour? In the morning you leave the house where your wife, your children, your parents live. You return and you find a smoking pit. Then something happens to you -to a certain exteny you stop being human. You do not need any glory, money anymore;revenge becomes your only joy. And because you no longer cling to life, death avoids you, bullets fly past. you become a wolf.

 

-rusian general aleksander lebed vet of afghanistan

 

The russians learned a long time ago that you you can't just expect to pacify a country with a scorched earth policy. Any one who survives will have lost everything and will make sure that when he joins his family in whatever afterlife he believes in he will take as many people with him as possible.

 

Unfortunatly the U.S. and israel have not learned this yet. Everytime an innocent is killed you make a dozen devils who will try to make you suffer as much as possible for the lives you do take.

 

Rather then just capet bomb an entire village to get one insurgant has no one in israel actually considered a tactical strike with spec or black ops to minamalize casualties?

 

1. I have done so, read up. Any fact presented by me on this thread can be checked, they're all definitely valid.

 

2. Care to show me?

 

3. I'm pretty sure I didn't get what you're trying to say here, so to avoid any misunderstandings, please clarify.

 

4. I don't think you fully understand the situation. Citizens and Hamas members all live together, most even hidden in citizens' homes. Weapons are stocked in the very same homes aswell. You can't minimize the damage when a "radical" uses a living child as a shield, it's either you shoot or you don't.

 

I'll repeat what I said before in a chronological way-

1. Sderot is bombed at, on an average of 2 rockets a week for 8 years.

2. Israel tries to stop the bombing in different ways, including using anti-missle missles (which unfortunately, aren't that affective because the location the missles are launched from is too close to the target).

3. Eventually Israel decides to react, and begins preparing for an operation- Oferet Yetzuka.

4. Israeli forces are sent to the Gaza strip.

5. After a period of about 3 weeks, Hamas agrees to stop attacking Sderot if Israel ends the operation.

6. The operation ends.

7. 3 days later, missles are launched at Sderot, again.

 

[/hide]

 

1- pretty much the only fact that you state in any thread on this issue is that Israel retaliated after being bombed twice a week for eight years. i believe i asked you this question on another thread i don't remember you ever answering. Why?? Why are the Palestinians attacking israel? The world isn't just black and white where one day people wake up and decide their neighbor has to die.

 

2- i'm not going to go digging through threads just to prove one point. i believe it was in the religouse fanatasism thread, or one of my very old ones where we started listing things that israel bans from entering gaza you then just kept repeating the same arguement your using on this thread, that israel put up with it for eight years. which of course never explained why building materials, food, heck even coloring books were banned from gaza.

'

3- any article regarding the issue will most likly be biased. you either find people for palestinians or for israel. i've yet to see an article with the title "israel retaliates for rocket attack" theres always the extra savage rocket attack or brutally retaliates. If you find an article that is completely nuetral then please post it. other wise we can just view any article in favour of israel the same way that you view one in favour of the palastinians.

 

4- The united states sends 3 billion dollars a year to Israel. If they can't train a decent special ops unit with that much money what are they using it for? Send in a team to a supposed insurgants house, search it, if they find rockets blow it up. But just blowing up an entire neighbor hood to get at one person is just asking for escalation.

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Again, any land conquered by Israel was conquered through wars Israel did not initiate, with the exception of the Six Days War. If it's the illegal settlements you're referring to: I agree those are wrong, but trying to bring forward the discussion was tried by Israel, the Palestinians only agree to do it with pre-made conditions, as odd as that, Israel temporarily stopped the illegal settlements, so that discussion could be had. Nothing happend.

 

This sounds a little to me like: "I'll stop being a criminal to get what I want, when I don't get it I'll just go back to being a criminal again". Maybe I have expectations too high, but Israel does have the opportunity to be the better man, at least in regards to the illegal settlements. I admit its far less easy in regards to the invasions.

 

No, Israel stopped the illegal settlements because that's what it took to start discussing anything- as a term.

To tell you the truth, I don't think (as in opinion...) the other side even wants discussion, if even after the terms set to discussion were made, and no discussion was held.

 

You have to understand that Israel's prime ministers, aswell as wanting to develop diplomatic issues, also wish to retain their popularity, and there's pressure from the religous side of the people.

It's wrong, sure, but instead of declaring how wrong it is, the best thing to do is solve that. The Israeli prime ministers may want to retain their popularity amongst the people, but they also want to retain Israel's popularity in the world, which would mean not agreeing to discuss things is not something they'd do - even if they wanted to.

So yes, this whole situation is twisted and wrong, but if negotiations is all it takes to change things, why the hell not?

 

I guess I'm playing Devil's advocate here - I don't mean to say Palestine is innocent. A lot of people have the conception that Israel is purely a victim - and the way Israel reacts to Palestinian action (and vice versa) follows a childish pattern: "he started it!!!" "no he did!!!" etc etc....which isn't going anywhere.

 

Except, unfortunately, this is a very childish issue. If there's one thing I learned about politics, it's that all politicians, all diplomats, all of that mumbo jumbo- is purely childish.

 

A. Bombing Sderot became something that's done on a daily basis, with the sole purpose of hurting Israeli citizens.

B. These civilian neighbourhoods were used by Hamas members to cover for themselves- So should Israel just not do anything, so not to hurt civilians, despite the fact that the other side had done so for 8 whole years?

I'm not saying it's okay, I'm saying there's no other choice.

And I agree - its unfathomable that Israel would stop retaliating. But here's my question: Let's say 100 Israelis died every month from the rocket strikes, back when Israel was not retaliating.

 

What's happening now? Now 1000 Palestinians are dying every month - but those 100 Israelis are dying too. It doesn't seem like their current strategy is very effective.

 

I mean....I have no easy answers for this. It's unlikely an Israeli government that refused to retaliate would be able to maintain popular support - it just seems to me that something's gotta give - someone has to be willing to try to embrace a drastic makeover of the way the situation is handled - and I think that Israel is in a better position to do so.

 

What? 1000 Palestinians are not dying every month, 1000 Gazans died in 1 month because of Oferet Yetzuka- an operation that is no longer taking place.

 

And Israel, as I already mentioned, is willing to discuss things, it's the other side that's listing terms to discuss anything.

 

When you fight with another kid, and the teacher tries to solve things, if one of you sets terms to discuss anything, that's just illogical- I assure you that the teacher would tell him to discuss those terms by sitting and talking about it, and not set them before discussing.

 

Some of the terms are rediculous, some aren't- those that aren't can definitely be achieved through discussion. However, considering the rediculous terms, I'm not sure the Palestinians even wish to discuss anything.

 

Ofcourse not, Israel had done wrong many, many times, I never said Israel is just a victim here.

I can tell you I'm personally extremely furious at some of Israel's doings, but I believe that despite everything (on both sides), peace can be achieved if wanted.

 

I agree completely - and I think that in order for peace to be achieved Israel will have to be the better man - and that could involve political suicide and a lot of sacrifice...but if it works in the end, it would be worth it.

I don't think there's a point in adressing that after what I said up this post.

 

They didn't invade, they received the right to establish a country by the UN.

 

And of course, the UN gave away their own land. And of course, they consulted Palestine first.

Again, there's no point in discussing whether Israel deserves the land, or if it should have gotten it, because Israel's here to stay. Some would say it deserves it, some would say it does not, but everyone has to understand that even if it does not, it's not going anywhere for now. The best thing to do now, is try to change things.

 

 

Nuclear weapons should be abolished. It terrifies me that anyone owns them - Iran is the dog that's all bark and no bite - the states is the dog that's all bite and no bark. Make no mistake, if it ever comes to the point where the states has a "good reason" to use nukes, they will.

 

I'd be careful with that statement, you can't know if that dog won't ever bite.

 

Anyway, USA getting rid of it's nuclear weapons is not feasible and will not happen. Personally, I'm not too sorry about that. Whether any countries own nuclear weapons or not, the one thing I'm certain of is that Iran should not.

 

I expect them to be the better man - and to stop the violence to find a solution. I'm not saying it's easy, but I do think it's time for a new approach.

 

Israel is willing to be the better man, but only to an extent. It's willing to sit and discuss, it's willing to agree to some of the terms made to discussion, despite how ill this request is, it's willing to use a third party to help solve things if that's what it takes, but it's not willing to shoot it's own leg to get things going, there's a red line there too.

 

You think the US would attack without any regards to human rights? Do you not see the stories in the news? The commissions, the inquireies, the panels, the shouts of war crimes at the slightest provocation? The citizens keep the US in line. They may invade, yes, but with far more respect for their opponents than Israel has otherwise shown.

I don't think you understand how serious this is. A city of innocent citizens was getting attacked by bombs and constantly, for eight years. I can only imagine the American people reacting one way if that ever happend to say... Seattle.

Yes, I do think the USA would attack without paying much attention to human rights given that situation, all countries would.

 

And they have (iraq war/911). And how's that working out for them?

What? How could they react to something that never happend? As far as I remember, no american city was bombed by a terror organization for 8 years.

 

Of course Palestine won't be happy with dual states - why should they have to give up which is theirs? Any agreement less than palestine regaining control of the entire region gives palestine the short end of the stick and Israel the gain.

 

You expect one side to agree to help it's enemy at getting stronger, even though you claim that side won't be happy until the other is destroyed?

 

I never said Israel should help Palestine get stronger, all I'm trying to say is that any diplomatic solution ends up shafting Palestine in the long run.

 

Dual states automatically means Palestine is getting stronger, and that can only happen if Israel agrees to it. In other words, by agreeing to a dual states solution, Israel is making Palestine stronger.

 

So I present my question again-

You expect one side to agree to help it's enemy at getting stronger, even though you claim that side won't be happy until the other is destroyed?

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[hide]

 

I know i shouldn't, but i know eventually i will anyway so might as well start while the day is young.

 

Was Israel Ever Legitimate?

 

 

 

 

 

Also id like people to think about this question,

 

Has the existence of Israel since 1948 made the world a safer place?

 

I can't believe someone seriously wrote that. The facts there couldn't be any more wrong, the article writer took a quote of Netanyahu, completely spinned it, and then drew conclusions. I stopped taking it seriously after seeing the article started with-

"The history of Israel as a geopolitical fraud will fill entire libraries as those defrauded marvel at how so few deceived so many for so long. Those duped include many naive Jews who-even now-identify their interests with this extremist enclave."

And later continued with-

"More than six decades ago the Joint Chiefs of Staff cautioned Truman about the "fanatical concepts of the Jewish leaders" and their plans for "Jewish military and economic hegemony over the entire Middle East.""

And then-

"Israel betrayed the U.S. by allying with the British and the French to invade Egypt."

 

Not only is it wrong, but frankly I find it funny anyone truely believes the "facts" presented there.

 

This article is just filled with senseless bashing and biased hatred based on nothing.

 

 

 

 

Next time, please atleast present an article that has it's facts right.

 

1) your arguments against everyone else who opposes Israel diplomatic issues are a simple matter of only your opinion just like the author of the article i posted

 

2) many others will agree and disagre with your point of view as well as mine, the difference is you do not have any respect for those who disagree with ur point of view by trying to bash their arguments and belittle them

 

3) At least a great deal of 1st world countries are not blind by the corruption and atrocities Israel commits against the Palestinians unlike the U.S. (who's media is heavily controlled by the Jews)

 

4) You would think the Jewish people would learn from the Holocaust but instead theyre committing a new kind of holocaust towards the Palestinians while the world turns a blind eye all in the name of "self-defense" and kill 1000s of innocent palestinians because of a few radicals trying to destroy israel

 

5) Romy, I gotta admit you probably get off bashing all the people who blast Israel as well as the article i posted but you seemed to have purposely not answered my important question.

 

6) Romy, you are a tool

 

1. No, that's my opinion based on real facts, wheras the author is basing his/her opinion on false facts. Can you not see the difference?

 

2. If I didn't have any respect I wouldn't bother to answer their arguments. I'm not "bashing" their arguments, I'm counterpointing and answering. Belittle? You mean like say that the articles they presented are based on false facts? Sure, I do that.

 

3. Hey, guess what? "corruption and atrocities Israel" is clearly your opinion, which is presented in a very disrespectful way.... isn't that what you accused me for on #2? Atleast make sure your points don't contradict each other in a hypcritical kind of way.

 

I'm not going to adress your conspiracy theories.

 

4. Having studied about the holocaust from every single point of view that exists, having interviewed 20-some holocaust survivors, having read countless books and watched countless movies about it, I believe it's safe to say there's no point of comparison here, and any comparison that exists isn't based.

 

Oh, and these may be only because of a few radicals who try to destroy Israel (I'd argue against the 'few' part, but meh), but these radicals are hiding inside civillian homes, and launch their rockets at Sderot from there. Israel has two choices- leave it be, let it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, or understand the consequences of letting it's citizens deal with the rockets on their own, understand that these radicals know hurting civillians is considered wrong and that's why they do that, and take the necessary steps in order to stop them, while being completely aware to the situation.

 

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying killing these 1,000 civillians was right, I'm saying there's no other choice.

 

5. I didn't answer your question because I thought you based it off that article. If you want my own opinion- I don't think it's made the world any safer than when the USA, Italy, Poland or Eygept were established, it's not about "safe". Countries are not established so the world will be a safer place, countries are establishsed on the basis of either- 1. An ideology (such as the USA). 2. A people without a country (such as Poland). I trust Israel fits both. To talk about safe? I'm not sure Iran or Iraq made it any safer, to say the least.

 

6. Yeah, same as 3, just more personal.

 

1- Rather then saying that everything the author says is based on 'false' facts as you call them, give us the 'real' facts and actually make a decent post rather then just screaming i'm right your wrong.

 

2- all i ever see from you regarding this subject is personal attacks and the i'm right your wrong attitude as i said above.

 

3- what would you have it say instead? I'm sorry we tried to be kind and peaceful and make it so you can't eat a decent meal never mind making a bomb so were gonna blast you all back to the stone age?

 

4-

 

Have you ever dealt with people who have lost everything in just an hour? In the morning you leave the house where your wife, your children, your parents live. You return and you find a smoking pit. Then something happens to you -to a certain exteny you stop being human. You do not need any glory, money anymore;revenge becomes your only joy. And because you no longer cling to life, death avoids you, bullets fly past. you become a wolf.

 

-rusian general aleksander lebed vet of afghanistan

 

The russians learned a long time ago that you you can't just expect to pacify a country with a scorched earth policy. Any one who survives will have lost everything and will make sure that when he joins his family in whatever afterlife he believes in he will take as many people with him as possible.

 

Unfortunatly the U.S. and israel have not learned this yet. Everytime an innocent is killed you make a dozen devils who will try to make you suffer as much as possible for the lives you do take.

 

Rather then just capet bomb an entire village to get one insurgant has no one in israel actually considered a tactical strike with spec or black ops to minamalize casualties?

 

1. I have done so, read up. Any fact presented by me on this thread can be checked, they're all definitely valid.

 

2. Care to show me?

 

3. I'm pretty sure I didn't get what you're trying to say here, so to avoid any misunderstandings, please clarify.

 

4. I don't think you fully understand the situation. Citizens and Hamas members all live together, most even hidden in citizens' homes. Weapons are stocked in the very same homes aswell. You can't minimize the damage when a "radical" uses a living child as a shield, it's either you shoot or you don't.

 

I'll repeat what I said before in a chronological way-

1. Sderot is bombed at, on an average of 2 rockets a week for 8 years.

2. Israel tries to stop the bombing in different ways, including using anti-missle missles (which unfortunately, aren't that affective because the location the missles are launched from is too close to the target).

3. Eventually Israel decides to react, and begins preparing for an operation- Oferet Yetzuka.

4. Israeli forces are sent to the Gaza strip.

5. After a period of about 3 weeks, Hamas agrees to stop attacking Sderot if Israel ends the operation.

6. The operation ends.

7. 3 days later, missles are launched at Sderot, again.

 

[/hide]

 

1- pretty much the only fact that you state in any thread on this issue is that Israel retaliated after being bombed twice a week for eight years. i believe i asked you this question on another thread i don't remember you ever answering. Why?? Why are the Palestinians attacking israel? The world isn't just black and grey where one day people wake up and decide their neighbor has to die.

 

2- i'm not going to go digging through threads just to prove one point. i believe it was in the religouse fanatasism thread, or one of my very old ones where we started listing things that israel bans from entering gaza you then just kept repeating the same arguement your using on this thread, that israel put up with it for eight years. which of course never explained why building materials, food, heck even coloring books were banned from gaza.

'

3- any article regarding the issue will most likly be biased. you either find people for palestinians or for israel. i've yet to see an article with the title "israel retaliates for rocket attack" theres always the extra savage rocket attack or brutally retaliates. If you find an article that is completely nuetral then please post it. other wise we can just view any article in favour of israel the same way that you view one in favour of the palastinians.

 

4- The united states sends 3 billion dollars a year to Israel. If they can't train a decent special ops unit with that much money what are they using it for? Send in a team to a supposed insurgants house, search it, if they find rockets blow it up. But just blowing up an entire neighbor hood to get at one person is just asking for escalation.

 

1. I don't remember this question, and I also don't see why I didn't answer- the answer is fairly simple. They never wanted Israel there- the minute Israel declared it's independent, all the bordering countries rushed to war against Israel. They didn't wake up one day and decide their neighbor has to die, that's what they've been thinking since day 1 (or even before that, issues had occured between Jews and arabs even during the Ottoman rule, and the British rule).

 

2. I clearly remember answering that question on the other thread, aswell as on this thread. The reason is that any resources that reach Gaza other than from Israel, also contain weapons and ammo used against Israeli civillians. Israel's only choice is to block other sources and be the sole one. Israel never banned specific supplies, it banned specific sources.

 

3. I'm not saying the article isn't good because it's biased, I'm saying it isn't good because it presents certain things as facts, even though they're not facts. I'd be happy to address other articles, both biased and not biased, as long as the facts are right.

 

4. Execuse my ignorance when it comes to millitay- but I can't think of any training or equipment that could do that- a soldier can't walk into a house that probably contains people wanting to kill him so he could find them.

And whole neighborhoods were not bombed, the IDF used special techs to try and see who is inside the house. The reason there were so many civillians hurt/killed is not because the IDF wasn't prepared, it was because Hamas members and civillians live together, and Hamas members use human bodies (both dead and alive) to protect them.

 

Also, you're off by 450 million dollars. Just saying.

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@ Yguy

 

Google "human rights offenses committed by Chinal"

Google "human rights offenses committed by Africal"

Google "human rights offenses committed by Russia"

Google "human rights offenses committed by <any other middle east country""

Google "human rights offenses committed by india"

 

 

They have some lengthy rap sheets too

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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1. I don't remember this question, and I also don't see why I didn't answer- the answer is fairly simple. They never wanted Israel there- the minute Israel declared it's independent, all the bordering countries rushed to war against Israel. They didn't wake up one day and decide their neighbor has to die, that's what they've been thinking since day 1 (or even before that, issues had occured between Jews and arabs even during the Ottoman rule, and the British rule).

Jews and other Middle Eastern groups, specifically the Shamis (Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine) have coincided together for a long time in peace. It was only until the European Jews started coming to the Middle East starting in 1897 when Zionism started to pick up that people were started to get annoyed with the Jews in Al Sham, particularly Palestine. The opinion of non-European Jews who resided mostly out of Palestine in the Middle East remained the same, as a brother-religion sort of view. The Middle East only completely erupted against the Jews when Israel was created from taking land away from the British Mandate of Palestine/Trans-Jordan by a UN resolution to create the dual states. From this we can see that (1) Arabs are not against Jews; rather, they are against Zionist European Jews who seize land from them and (2) It was acknowledged as Palestine unanimously internationally until 1947. It also just so happens that every major migration of Jews to Palestine in the pre-Israel period coincide with the beginning of a revolt. The mindset is not that Jews have to die, it is that the Zionist takeover of Palestine. I also know of the coexistence and peace between Middle Eastern people and Jews seeing as how my family ruled Walaayeh Al Sham and I have to hear stories like every day my grandmother feels like talking about it, it might not have been Palestine but they were in the same province.

 

The point of my post was to show hostility against Israel is because of their own intrusiveness and how it wasn't because they were Jews, it was because the Zionists were threatening the dream of having an independent Al Sham unjustly as they were a foreign element.

kaisershami.png

He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked... Your daily life is your temple and your religion
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Correct you are. But just because others do it doesn't come close to making it ok for Israel to.

 

 

Double standards, can't damn them for being worse than you can any other country. Unless you are predisposed to a bias. The Chinese have done lots of shady things to it's own people and Tibet in 10 years, the mexican cartels stitch faces on soccer balls and terrorize people domestically, you're going to tell me that isreal is damned for having to make tough choices in a time of war? and they are surrounded by enemies.

 

 

This is being blown out of proportion IMO.

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

Abraham Lincoln

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