Food for thought: http://calebjonesblog.com/nobody-wants-free-speech/

 

 

tl;dr: nobody actually wants freedom of speech

 

Right-wing conservatives don’t want free speech. They want the government to wield massive power over public mediums to make sure no one says the F-word, talks about sex too explicitly, or badmouths certain religions or their own country.

Left-wing liberals/progressives don’t want free speech. They want the government to wield massive power over public mediums to make sure no one says the N-word or anything deemed insensitive to certain races or sexual preferences, what the progressives call “hate speech,” a term that can essentially mean “anything that makes me really mad when I hear it.”

 

Nobody wants free speech.

 

I want freedom of speech. Everything short of calls for genocide or credible violent threats should be legal.

I believe anyone of british decent should be killed except the welsh theyre alright

What about those that can't spell?

 

I believe anyone of british decent should be killed except the welsh theyre alright

What about those that can't spell?

 

 

their alright

That's not what freedom of speech means.

 

Not exclusively, but the right to do so is protected by the notion of free speech. 

 

It's very possible to be in favor of free speech while strongly disagreeing with what certain groups actually say, and not wanting to endorse or support them for it. To suggest that using their right to free speech to nonviolently disagree means they "advocate not having freedom of speech" is downright deplorable.

 

But by all means, keep trying to discredit people that disagree with you as enemies of free speech.

 

I acknowledge that the 145 are entitled to do what they have done. But if you read the published open letters and justifications they provide, most of them say fundamentally misunderstand freedom of speech. So when people say, "I'm for free speech" and give a bogus definition, I think it's fair to say that by being so misleading they are, in a sense, "enemies" of free speech. Just as a homeopathic doctor is an enemy of medical science: they may give lip service to medicine, but they don't understand a damn thing about it. 

Having strong doubts about what I'm going to about in my near future. Not really sure studying philosophy is the thing for me right now, and with finals around the corner it's starting to become time to decide what to do. 

I sometimes laugh like Jimmy Carr now because I listen to his Pandora station every day D:

People who say "most everything" and "should of".

 

Like, get a [bleep]ing education.

People who say "most everything" and "should of".

 

Like, get a [bleep]ing education.

 

 

"should of" happens when basic white girls that don't realize that people are saying "should have" really fast

 

 

This is how contracted words are born.

Piss-poor excuse. Perhaps these kids should start paying attention is class. It'll keep them from getting fired, for being unprofessional, in the future.

 

For context, my boss got fired yesterday for losing a multi-million dollar contract because in an e-mail he sent out to our client, he used not just one, but both "should of" and "most everything". We're an advertising company. If our head of design can't spell, no one wants to do business with us. 

He is* American.

I'm no advertising professional and I can understand your frustration, but if your client is going to walk away allegedly because of a couple spelling mistakes (or shall we say, pet peeve phrases), maybe it's because the product was marginal or they were looking for an excuse to turn it down anyway. It's not like he wrote "So do u liek r designz??" is it?

I'm no advertising professional and I can understand your frustration, but if your client is going to walk away allegedly because of a couple spelling mistakes (or shall we say, pet peeve phrases), maybe it's because the product was marginal or they were looking for an excuse to turn it down anyway. It's not like he wrote "So do u liek r designz??" is it?

Apparently it's not the first time he's made mistakes like that. The client actually asked our superior if it would be possible for someone else to handle the correspondence because he (our client) was getting frustrated with having to read e-mails filled with spelling and grammatical errors. When my boss was approached about this, he used the excuse that "what does spelling and grammar matter, as long as they're getting the message".

That's the problem with a lot of westerners here. They think they're untouchable in the workplace. 

 

Maybe that has to do with you being in a country where English is a second language and there is an up-tightness surrounding it because you can't take for granted that everyone there knows how to speak it.

 

 

Anyways colloquial terms are valid and in English speaking countries politicians and businesses intentionally use them to connect to local populations.

I think this is ridiculous to be honest. Your politicians might as well be saying "We're okay with you being under-educated" 

 

He is* American.

 

and I doubt your client was. Your client was probably some arab :lol: I think the fact that your in Qatar (or where ever) plays into the interaction whether or not the client was arab or not. 

 

An Arab who speaks English, as a second language, better than an American raised on English. That would be correct.

 

EDIY: Now MR. America can go back the the USA and have all that Freedom. 

It's got nothing to do with insecurity. It's about standards. Our client wanted english, not gibbering and slang. So do most other companies we do business with. If the American is unable to adjust to proper English, if he's adamant on using his slang, then clearly he should seek employment elsewhere. Somewhere where it's acceptable to sound like a 5-year old. And to be honest, i can't classify "should of" or "most everything" as colloquialisms. "Cuppa" or "Barbie" are examples of slang and/or colloquialisms. "Should of" or "most everything" are examples of either poor education, or laziness. Neither of which are well suited for a senior position. 

 

I find it disturbing that i have to defend proper English.

 

I'm no advertising professional and I can understand your frustration, but if your client is going to walk away allegedly because of a couple spelling mistakes (or shall we say, pet peeve phrases), maybe it's because the product was marginal or they were looking for an excuse to turn it down anyway. It's not like he wrote "So do u liek r designz??" is it?

Apparently it's not the first time he's made mistakes like that. The client actually asked our superior if it would be possible for someone else to handle the correspondence because he (our client) was getting frustrated with having to read e-mails filled with spelling and grammatical errors. When my boss was approached about this, he used the excuse that "what does spelling and grammar matter, as long as they're getting the message".

That's the problem with a lot of westerners here. They think they're untouchable in the workplace. 

 

Hmm okay, guess that's a fair point, and he deserved what he got then.

 

 

 

Maybe that has to do with you being in a country where English is a second language and there is an up-tightness surrounding it because you can't take for granted that everyone there knows how to speak it.

 

 

Anyways colloquial terms are valid and in English speaking countries politicians and businesses intentionally use them to connect to local populations.

I think this is ridiculous to be honest. Your politicians might as well be saying "We're okay with you being under-educated" 

Of course they want an undereducated populace (at least, a decent fraction of them do). Do you think they would get away with half the stunts they pulled in Congress if people understood and voted out that sort of behavior? Plus these days it's only politically correct to make everyone feel awesome and special, and pander to every little group in the process.

It would be interesting to see what counts as proper English in America versus Britain. E.g. in America it's common to say "write me" but in the UK (and Australia and other Anglophone countries, I think) that's a grammatical nonsense - you have to put "to" in the middle of the phrase. Although it could be that "write me" doesn't pass for proper English in America and is merely used a lot. 

 

Also, I've lost track of who is American, who is an Arab, where this advertising company is based, and what's going on any more. 

 

PS. As for politicians trying to be colloquial to reach people, watch Labour Party leader Ed Miliband trying to say "hell yeah." Not only was it hilarious, it's also slang from the wrong country. Not many British people say hell yeah. It would be like Hilary Clinton trying to connect to people using cockney rhyming slang. 

So in the UK, even saying something like "write me a letter" or "write me up a list of stuff you need" is considered a grammatical fallacy as well? Or just when the phrase is used by itself?

It would be interesting to see what counts as proper English in America versus Britain. E.g. in America it's common to say "write me" but in the UK (and Australia and other Anglophone countries, I think) that's a grammatical nonsense - you have to put "to" in the middle of the phrase. Although it could be that "write me" doesn't pass for proper English in America and is merely used a lot.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/SeparatedByACommonLanguage

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockAmericanPhrases

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockBritishPhrases

 

A highly casual overview of some differences. The American half is pretty okay, can't vouch for the rest of the world's (obviously). It's mostly focused on colloquialisms and casual speech, if that's what you're looking for.

 

Cultural differences are pretty interesting, though the posturing that tends to come with them annoys the hell out of me.

So in the UK, even saying something like "write me a letter" or "write me up a list of stuff you need" is considered a grammatical fallacy as well? Or just when the phrase is used by itself?

 

Those are grammatically sound, it's when the preposition "to" is dropped that it becomes ungrammatical. As for those two examples, they are also not conventional in British English:

 

"Write me a letter" would usually be said as "write to me." Or if you want the letter for a specific purpose, "put it in writing."

 

"Write me up a list..." would be "Write a list..." or simply "write it down." In Britain, the phrasal verb "to write up" is associated with e.g. writing up the results of a scientific experiment and other formal/professional functions. Anything casual is "write down" 99% of the time, so a shopping list would be written down, not up. 

 

@ Alg: a lot of it is posturing. I tend to notice these things more because, English not being my 1st language, I think I naturally pay more attention to how things are said. The link of British-isms is a mixture of the accurate and nonsense cliché. 

@ Alg: a lot of it is posturing. I tend to notice these things more because, English not being my 1st language, I think I naturally pay more attention to how things are said. The link of British-isms is a mixture of the accurate and nonsense cliché.

The American one is much the same, a lot of it is because the site's focus is fiction and the clichés themselves are... well, cliché. Writers who should know better still use them even if nobody talks like that anymore, and native speakers tend to take their complete lack of meaning for granted.

 

I really should look for a better source. Have been thinking about those sorts of cultural differences far too often lately. not at all out of awareness of my own changing speech patterns

I don't think 'Hey' is considered rude anymore, is it? I feel as if even a boss or a supervisor (save maybe some work environments) would be fine with it. I probably wouldn't use it right off but it seems to be an acceptable greeting especially in passing. Also sure can be very different things - at least many people around me use it as a free substitute for 'yes,' and other times it's used as a more hesitant expression of agreement. But usually vocal tone has more to do with it than the actual choice of words.

It really depends on how you want to come off. For example, if you wanted to ask your professor a quick question, you'd use hey, i.e.

 

 

Hey,

 

I was wondering if chapter 8 would be on the statistics final.

 

Thanks,

 

Meredith Palmer

 

It gives your reader the impression that they don't necessarily need a well-thought-out response. Here, the professor is just expected to say "yes" or "no", so there's no need for a fancy introduction. The same goes for when you're just giving someone a heads up. If "Thanks for letting me know, I'll keep it in mind" is something you might expect in response, then "hey" is fine.

 

Anything requiring a little more thought should address the reader directly.

Oh I was referring to spoken English. I'd never write that in an email personally :P.

Just do what feels natural. If you force a "hey" it'll come off as rude, but a casual "hey" is totally fine.