People who do not understand what it takes to create an update

[RSBDavid]

First off I am going to go over the basic update development and release procedure (This may not be how Runescape does it 100% This is based off of my knowledge of game Dev) .

 

[hide=Game Design and Dev]

 

Step One: Thinking of an idea Time: 1 Day +

In this step, the update idea is thought of. It could be something from a new monster, to a new land, and even to a brand new skill. Whatever it may be, it has to be though of before it can be designed.

 

Step Two: Drafting Time: 3-5+ days

In this step, the idea is transformed from an idea into something tangible. It could be anything from drawn concept art, to a computer image, to text, and even prototype code.

 

Step Three: Initial Planning Time: 1-3+ days

This is where a group of people get together and plan the idea into actual content once it is approved. Usually the content creator, engine manager, team leader, an audio engineer, a graphical engineer, and a coder go into a room for a meeting. They discuss what technologies in the game this will require, the models and scenery, the audio, and coding requirements. The time line for this update from the planning to the release is determined as well.

 

Step Four: Basic content creation review Time: 1-12 months+

In this step, prototype code, graphics, and audio are tied together to see if the update is worth continuing. The content creator gets together with the team leader to play around with the prototype content. If it meets the standards and its time line thus far, development will continue. Each model could takes up do 1.5 days to create and a week to animate.

 

Step Five: Finishing Touches and QA Time: 1-6 weeks+

At this point, the content is about complete. The modelers have created all of the necessary models, the scenery is complete, all of the audio and graphics are coded in. and functional. After self-QA'ing, the content creator passes his or her rough draft over to the QA team for final testing. The QA team attempts to find and fix any bugs, graphical errors, bad audio synchronization, and crashes at this point. The models are check to see if they have a low enough polygon count, the audio is compressed to about 3.0MB, code efficiency is checked, other things happen, and the client is updated and obfuscated to prevent reverse engineering.

 

Step Six: Release Time! Time: 1 week

In this step, the code is copied to a public version then uploaded to each game server. After the players start testing it, the QA team, content creator, and team leaders watch the game output information closely so they can fix any last minute bugs which appear at runtime. The website crew add all of the KB entries as well.

 

Step Seven: Player Complaints (Semi-truth) Time: 1 Day

20 seconds after the update is release, before any player gets a chance to fully load the game client, the rants board is instantly filled with threads containing message such as "Bring wildy back", "This update sucks" ," ZOMG SAILing!!!!!11@one". The developers laugh at the ignorance of the thousands of players while they sit and consume alcoholic beverages and pizza.

 

[/hide]

 

So basically, players do not understand what all is involved in an update and how long each step takes. They do not test the new content thoroughly and get a feel for how it works and what it does. They just read the title, read the news post, and say it sucks.As a developer, It bothers me that they do this. Players expect a new large content update a week/biweekly. With a staff of only 400 or so, this is virtually impossible. Jagex would need a thousand developers to keep up with that demand. Dungeoneering had around 4 main developers who actually worked on the skill full-time. It took them over 18 months to finish the skill and the first half of content. It will take another 2-6 months from the release of the first half, till the release of the second half.

 

Thank you for reading and understanding my feelings.

[ilya]

Seems right to me, except all the times would should be multiplied by a factor of 3 or 4. The bug testing of a single update usually takes weeks by itself, not to mention the actual creation and fine-tuning

[RSBDavid]

Seems right to me, except all the times would should be multiplied by a factor of 3 or 4. The bug testing of a single update usually takes weeks by itself, not to mention the actual creation and fine-tuning

 

That is why I added a Time x +. Total time depends on the content scale.

[ilya]

Seems right to me, except all the times would should be multiplied by a factor of 3 or 4. The bug testing of a single update usually takes weeks by itself, not to mention the actual creation and fine-tuning

 

That is why I added a Time x +. Total time depends on the content scale.

 

Ah, it wasn't very clear to me, but even so I wouldn't imagine an update, not matter how small it is to take any less than 3 months to put out (not a month as you suggest). Not to mention they would already have quite list of ideas/projects they are working on, and this new update would have to wait even longer.

[Bladewing]

That's why Jagex should have stopped promising weekly updates years ago. I'd rather pay double for subscription and get huge updates biannually than weekly untested updates.

[RSBDavid]

That's why Jagex should have stopped promising weekly updates years ago. I'd rather pay double for subscription and get huge updates biannually than weekly untested updates.

 

Back then the game engine wasn't was complex and didn't support what it can now. They do not really promise weekly updates now.

 

(I fixed a type from "1-12 weeks" to '1-12 months")

[ghjkl]

How could Jagex make good weekly updates with less staff before recent times then?

[RSBDavid]

How could Jagex make good weekly updates with less staff before recent times then?

 

The game engine wasn't as advance and cumbersome. There was less content already so it looked like there was more being released.

[ghjkl]

Imo, a less complex game engine but more updates would be better. Idk what the rest of the population would think.

[quelmotz]

Imo, a less complex game engine but more updates would be better. Idk what the rest of the population would think.

 

WOW - I really have to quote this for the idiocy of it.

 

A less complex game engine will eventually evolve into a complex one as it gets more and more updates. So it's ridiculous to think that you can just "reset" the game engine into something simpler without having to remove many of the updates.

[Nomrombom]

I'd actually prefer something like monthly smaller updates like adding a new monster or a nice new little dungeon, than huge changes every 4-6-8 months.

 

I like things to change gradually if they are going to have to change.

[quelmotz]

I'd actually prefer something like monthly smaller updates like adding a new monster or a nice new little dungeon, than huge changes every 4-6-8 months.

 

I like things to change gradually if they are going to have to change.

 

How the hell are you supposed to "gradually" release a new skill, for example?

 

22 May 2010: NEW SKILL!!! The thumbnail is now present in your skill list!

29 May 2010: You can now do the quest for access, but no content is available yet.

4 June 2010: You can now train to level 5! You now have access to (insert basic action/item)!

11 June 2010: You can now train to level 15! You now have access to ...

...

So on and so forth.

 

Seriously? How idiotic is that?

[Nomrombom]

I'd actually prefer something like monthly smaller updates like adding a new monster or a nice new little dungeon, than huge changes every 4-6-8 months.

 

I like things to change gradually if they are going to have to change.

 

How the hell are you supposed to "gradually" release a new skill, for example?

 

22 May 2010: NEW SKILL!!! The thumbnail is now present in your skill list!

29 May 2010: You can now do the quest for access, but no content is available yet.

4 June 2010: You can now train to level 5! You now have access to (insert basic action/item)!

11 June 2010: You can now train to level 15! You now have access to ...

...

So on and so forth.

 

Seriously? How idiotic is that?

 

Lmao

 

That's not what I meant. Skills should just be one fell swoop and into the games, but when they make other changes that aren't just one giant single item, I'd prefer them gradually. Not that that's practical though :mellow:

[quelmotz]

I'd actually prefer something like monthly smaller updates like adding a new monster or a nice new little dungeon, than huge changes every 4-6-8 months.

 

I like things to change gradually if they are going to have to change.

 

How the hell are you supposed to "gradually" release a new skill, for example?

 

22 May 2010: NEW SKILL!!! The thumbnail is now present in your skill list!

29 May 2010: You can now do the quest for access, but no content is available yet.

4 June 2010: You can now train to level 5! You now have access to (insert basic action/item)!

11 June 2010: You can now train to level 15! You now have access to ...

...

So on and so forth.

 

Seriously? How idiotic is that?

 

Lmao

 

That's not what I meant. Skills should just be one fell swoop and into the games, but when they make other changes that aren't just one giant single item, I'd prefer them gradually. Not that that's practical though :mellow:

 

Monthly updates like new monsters and stuff will start getting repetitive, and Jagex won't have enough time to insert originality into updates. That's precisely what made Jagex stop committing to weekly updates and such - they didn't want overly tight deadlines to affect the quality of updates.

[Nomrombom]

Oh. :mrgreen:

[qeltar]

There are ignoramuses on both sides of this.

 

On the one hand you have the people the OP is complaining about. On the other you have fanbois who loudly oppose anyone who makes valid complaints about anything Jagex does, saying something like "uh, software is hard, so they must have a reason why they did that!"

 

Hell, most people even buy that "40 seconds to transfer your profile" bullsquat.

[Owned_Nex]

Seems right to me, except all the times would should be multiplied by a factor of 3 or 4. The bug testing of a single update usually takes weeks by itself, not to mention the actual creation and fine-tuning

 

Nah, remember Stealing Creation?

The game couldn't even START. Explain how this was minigame was bug tested.

 

Anyways, I think your time line is correct, but the time it takes for Runescape to update really isin't that magnificent. Sure they did update things to allow for more complex scripting (Nomad and Dungeoneering Bosses) , its still extremely basic compared to other games. If you look at the fundaments of a skill, say, Dungeoneering, all they did was make some static rooms, add preexisting monsters, and add some cookie cutter items. The bosses had some unique twist to them, but even that was extremely basic. The events were new, but very simple. Compared to other MMORPGs, this new "advancement" would be laughable.

 

Also compare the amount of people working on a single project.

99% of Jagex is working on updates. For bans, its just a computer looking for keywords, or, in some cases, automatic accept/declines. Customer service is there, but rarely does anything. Aside from that, I can't think of anything Jagex needs to do.

[quelmotz]

There are ignoramuses on both sides of this.

 

On the one hand you have the people the OP is complaining about. On the other you have fanbois who loudly oppose anyone who makes valid complaints about anything Jagex does, saying something like "uh, software is hard, so they must have a reason why they did that!"

 

Hell, most people even buy that "40 seconds to transfer your profile" bullsquat.

 

So what does that make you? Some idiot who's trying to act superior by not taking sides and insulting everyone?

 

Stop making posts like this to boost your ego, by classifying everyone as idiots and then sitting on the fence sneering at them.

 

---------

 

And your definition of "valid" is biased. In fact, everyone's definition is. But no one's going to respect your opinion if you're going to make stupid posts like that.

[qeltar]

So what does that make you?

Someone who had a computer engineering degree and a decade's worth of programming experience before most of you were born.

 

Thanks very much for the childish personal attacks -- while simultaneously lecturing me about "respect", neat trick there -- but my point remains: there are people who both overestimate *and* underestimate the difficulty of updates.

[sees_all1]

I've had about 6 years now of programming experience. Let me tell you, I'd hate to maintain that beast of a game that Andrew Gower created. Not only is there a size issue, but you've got literally hundreds of people poking around at that code. Also, turnover is huge at jagex, which means that from one year to the next you'll get different developers messing around, different styles, etc.

 

I think that's part of the reason they had to keep dungeoneering so isolated, because there was SO MUCH OTHER STUFF that they could've messed up.

[quelmotz]

So what does that make you?

Someone who had a computer engineering degree and a decade's worth of programming experience before most of you were born.

 

Thanks very much for the childish personal attacks -- while simultaneously lecturing me about "respect", neat trick there -- but my point remains: there are people who both overestimate *and* underestimate the difficulty of updates.

 

Wow - so convincing. I'm supposed to believe that, especially on the internet?

 

Interesting how you can argue about respect when you first started attacking people?

 

I don't see why you highlighted the "and". I never disputed that point. I was just pointing out that you acting superior and sneering at people on the fence while not backing your point up at all isn't going to get your opinion respected. Your point might remain, but it isn't substantiated.

[qeltar]

quelmotz -- I said that there are people who both overestimate *and* underestimate how hard it is to do things in RuneScape. I didn't personally attack anyone on this thread. You responded by calling me an idiot and talking about my ego.

 

Try staying on topic. Hint: the topic is not your personal feelings about me, which I couldn't care less about (I get flamed here on a daily basis by better than you) and I doubt anyone else cares about either.

 

I don't know how you expect me to "substantiate" my point any better. I already gave the example of the 40 second world switch delay due to "profile transferring", which anyone who knows anything about the Internet knows is total BS. But people still say it's really needed.

[Nomrombom]

Just checking...The ACTUAL point of the profile lag time is so you can't just hop worlds in five seconds and mine rune ores and stuff like that?

[RSBDavid]

Just checking...The ACTUAL point of the profile lag time is so you can't just hop worlds in five seconds and mine rune ores and stuff like that?

 

 

Yes

[Mr_Muto]

From what I've seen so far reading this topic was nothing but people voicing their opinions and then being flamed for "omg how stupid would that be! You're an idiot!". Although I must agree, people do tend to misunderstand and under/over estimate the updates.