I don't really understand what you're trying to say, the Ottoman Empire did control Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon which they were referred to by those names and all but Jordan existed before their Ottoman imperial conquests. And the Palestinians controlled their land the last time there was a country of Israel anyway, Gaza has always been Palestinian even under the Kingdom of David.

 

The last time their was a country in the land of Israel it was controlled by the Jews 2000 years ago since then it was controlled by different empires including the Ottoman and British empires. The Arab population here didn't control Israel as a country but a district of a empire

 

Years later. Israel held onto the Sinai and Gaza for a long time, as well as holding onto Southern Lebanon and they still won't relinquish Golan Heights.

 

Israel gave all the land conquered in October 1956 back in March 1957 that is only a few months not years later. The Southern Lebanon conquered in 1982 and held to 2000 Israel held it as a buffer zone against terrorist and in 2006 the second Lebanon war proved Israel was right to control Southern Lebanon because terrorist used it as a base for there terrorism. The Golan Heights is a very strategic piece of land because The topography of the Golan serves as a natural blockade against any military attack from Syria. The Golan is essentially one high-altitude plateau that overlooks southern Syria and serves as an excellent vantage point for Israel to keep track of Syrian military movements.

 

http://library.thinkquest.org/20176/suez.htm

http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/c.hsJPK0PIJpH/b.2907269/k.7821/Strategic_Value_of_the_Golan_Heights.htm

 

Lebanon is not responsible for harboring them, they've been trying to eliminate them but have been unable especially since Syria and Israel like to burst through their borders every decade to intervene. And Nasser's plan was not to destroy Israel, it was to get them to submit without war out of fear by employing the "Big Stick" tactic. Go read the Memoirs of Nasser.

 

Lebanon did not try to eliminate the terrorist it just let them be. So it was responsible for their actions.

"We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand, we shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood"

"We want a full scale, popular war of liberation to destroy the Zionist enemy"

The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear - to wipe Israel off the map

 

These are quotes by some of the leaders right before the 6 day war Nasser hinted to destroying Israel

 

please read all of this link http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sixday_backgd.php

http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/6daywar.htm

 

Israel doesn't killed civilian on purpose but when hamas hides behind civilian it doesn't leaves Israel much of a chose. In Iraq 105408 civilians have been killed and 19,000 terrorist that means for ever terrorist dead The us killed 5.54 civilians, For every civilian killed 1.5 terrorist were killed so us kills way more inconcent then us so you can't say we kill the random and innocent

Just because you have a statistical number that shows Israel kills less Palestinians than the US kills Iraqis [which is disputable as who does the IDF perceive as terrorists when they board and attack a humanitarian aid vessel] doesn't mean Israel is not guilty of killing the innocent.

 

50 Men aboard the Mavi Marmara were hired mercenary's they planed before setting out to Israel on fighting IDF soldiers that would board it so the people in the Mavi Marmara were not Innocent as you claim

 

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177452

 

As i said before when a terrorist hides behind a civilians you can't blame us for them dieing

Ok, okay even though the country is based off an ancient tribe which was suppose to follow the virtue of YHWH and YHWH specifically does not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah [immediately] because Abraham was going to find 10 innocent people [out of an entire city of evil people who try to rape His messangers]. Now if the religion Israel is based off of isn't good enough for you, it is in violation of the Geneva Convention as conducting an aggressive military operation somewhere deemed of military significance is unjustifiable if it results in invariably killing the innocent.

 

What i have no clue what you are trying to say???????

 

Israel doesn't killed civilian on purpose but when hamas hides behind civilian it doesn't leaves Israel much of a chose. In Iraq 105408 civilians have been killed and 19,000 terrorist that means for ever terrorist dead The us killed 5.54 civilians, For every civilian killed 1.5 terrorist were killed so us kills way more inconcent then us so you can't say we kill the random and innocent

Just because you have a statistical number that shows Israel kills less Palestinians than the US kills Iraqis [which is disputable as who does the IDF perceive as terrorists when they board and attack a humanitarian aid vessel] doesn't mean Israel is not guilty of killing the innocent.

 

50 Men aboard the Mavi Marmara were hired mercenary's they planed before setting out to Israel on fighting IDF soldiers that would board it so the people in the Mavi Marmara were not Innocent as you claim

 

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177452

 

 

I'm sorry but your just digging yourself and any other israeli supporters a bigger grave.

 

 

The IDF identified a group of about 50 men – of the 700 on board – who were well-trained and were stationed throughout the ship, mostly on the upper deck, where they laid an ambush for the IDF soldiers who rappelled onto the deck from helicopters.

Like i said before, some of the passengers were muslim and would have been on deck for morning prayers. If they wanted to ambush them why did they use chair legs and kitchen knives and no guns besides what they managed to get from the IDF.

 

The members of this violent group were not carrying identity cards or passports. Instead, each of them had an envelope in his pocket with about $10,000 in cash. The defense establishment suspects the funding for the mercenaries may have come from elements within the Turkish government.

 

excuse the language but... Why the F are you going to take that much cash with you onto a ship if you are planning on commiting suicide!

 

According to sources within the defense establishment, one member of the group, who appears to have been the ringleader, traveled to the city of Bursa in northwest Turkey and allegedly recruited mercenaries for the flotilla there.

notice how no one is actually sourced for this claim. Israel is again telling you it is true because they say so.

 

 

In videos from the Marmara released this week by the IDF, this group of men can be seen preparing to confront IDF commandos. The videos, taken by the ship’s security cameras, show the group of activists brandishing metal bars, slingshots, and other assorted weaponry.

 

The group was split up into smaller squads that were distributed throughout the deck and communicated with one another with handheld communication devices. The men wore bulletproof vests and gas masks.

 

One video clearly shows a member of the group throwing a stun grenade onto the IDF commando vessel that pulled up alongside the Marmara. Another video shows how groups of at least four or five men swarmed each commando that landed on the top deck, beating them with metal bars, and in one case throwing a soldier off the third deck.

 

Soldiers testified that in at least two instances their sidearms were taken from them, as were their helmets and vests. Two soldiers jumped off the ship into the water to save themselves from being lynched.

Unless every single video cammera, cell phone, and security tape that was stolen by the IDF is made available to an international inquiry then no video that they release can be trusted because we simply do not have the whole picture. The fact that Israel hasn't done this means that there is something on those tapes that they don't want the rest of the world to see.

 

On Wednesday, Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilna’i told a Knesset hearing that all nine men killed on the Marmara were “involved in the fighting.”

 

“There were no innocents among the dead,” Vilna’i said.

 

which is why some of them were shot in the back right?

 

Meanwhile, Palestinian Media Watch reported Thursday that three of the four Turks killed on ship sought a martyr’s death.

 

PMW quoted from the official Palestinian Authority daily Al-Hayat al-Jadida:

 

“Three of the four Turks killed in the Israeli attack on the ‘Freedom Flotilla’ bound for the Gaza Strip wanted to die as martyrs, said their relatives and friends. The wife of one of them, Ali Haydar Bengi, told the Vatan daily: “He used to help the poor and the oppressed. For years, he wanted to go to Palestine. And he constantly prayed to Allah to grant him shahada (martyrdom).

 

“Ali worked at telephone repair shop in Diyarbakir, the largest city in southeastern Turkey. Sabir Ceylan, a friend of Ali, told the Milliyet newspaper: ‘Before embarking on this journey [to Gaza], he said he desired to become a martyr. He had a strong desire to die as a martyr.’

 

 

“Another Turkish victim was Ali Ekber Yaratilmis, a 55-year old pensioner. He was a father of five who lived in Ankara. Ali volunteered for the Turkish Aid and Human Rights Organization [iHH], which transfers aid to Gaza. A friend, Mehmet Faruk Cevher, told the Sabah daily that [Ali] ‘devoted his life to charity work, that’s why he went to Gaza. He always wanted to become a martyr.’

 

“The third victim was Ibrahim Bilgen, a 61-year old pensioner and father of six sons. He was a supporter of the Felicity Party, an Islamic movement in the southeastern city of Siirt, Anatolia news agency reported. His brother-in-law, Nuri Mergen, told the agency: He was an exemplary man and a truly good man. That’s why he was truly worthy of shahada (martyrdom). Allah granted him the death that he wished for.’”

 

basically those quotes are saying that they wanted to be martyrs, by dieing while helping others. Joan of arc was a martyr. People have to get it out of there heads that the only definition of a martyr is to kill yourself and kill others while doing it.

 

 

Palestinian Media Watch reported in the last two days that participants on board were chanting Islamic battle cries and talking about their coming martyrdom during the days before the confrontation.

Proof? or is this more it must be true because the IDF says so?

 

Basically this entire article comes down to they are terrorists because the IDF says so. Which is why there needs to be an international investigation.

I'm sorry but your just digging yourself and any other israeli supporters a bigger grave.

 

Yes please tell me how by me giving you the facts and you try twist it so it sounds something totally different.

 

Like i said before, some of the passengers were muslim and would have been on deck for morning prayers. If they wanted to ambush them why did they use chair legs and kitchen knives and no guns besides what they managed to get from the IDF.

 

I am sorry i don't understand the mind of a terrorist . There is a video showing a group preparing weapons.

 

excuse the language but... Why the F are you going to take that much cash with you onto a ship if you are planning on commiting suicide!

 

As i said before i don't understand the mind of a terrorist.

 

notice how no one is actually sourced for this claim. Israel is again telling you it is true because they say so.

 

When do newspapers give away there sources?

 

Unless every single video cammera, cell phone, and security tape that was stolen by the IDF is made available to an international inquiry then no video that they release can be trusted because we simply do not have the whole picture. The fact that Israel hasn't done this means that there is something on those tapes that they don't want the rest of the world to see.

 

They were not stolen they were confiscated. The people aboard the ships were told they were entering a naval blockade and they kept on going so they forfeit they right once they kept on going the IDF acted and stopped them from entering. The IDF confiscated everything on the ships.

 

which is why some of them were shot in the back right?

 

That means that they could have done a hit and run.

 

basically those quotes are saying that they wanted to be matyrs, by dieing while helping others. Joan of arc was a matyr. People have to get it out of there heads that the only definition of a matyr is to kill yourself and kill others while doing it.

 

In present times martyr is to kill yourself and kill others while doing it or trying to at least.

 

Proof? or is this more it must be true because the IDF says so?

 

Basically this entire article comes down to they are terrorists because the IDF says so. Which is why there needs to be an international investigation.

 

Why would the IDF give away it sources try thinking before you talk

Like i said before, some of the passengers were muslim and would have been on deck for morning prayers. If they wanted to ambush them why did they use chair legs and kitchen knives and no guns besides what they managed to get from the IDF.

 

I am sorry i don't understand the mind of a terrorist . There is a video showing a group preparing weapons.

 

excuse the language but... Why the F are you going to take that much cash with you onto a ship if you are planning on commiting suicide!

 

As i said before i don't understand the mind of a terrorist.

 

You don't have to understand their mind, its common sense! If someone is an extremeist and is willing to die for their cause, they'll do it for free. If someone is a mercenary and makes their money this way then there's no way in hell he's gonna risk his pay check.

 

notice how no one is actually sourced for this claim. Israel is again telling you it is true because they say so.

 

When do newspapers give away there sources?

When one wishes to be believed.

 

Unless every single video cammera, cell phone, and security tape that was stolen by the IDF is made available to an international inquiry then no video that they release can be trusted because we simply do not have the whole picture. The fact that Israel hasn't done this means that there is something on those tapes that they don't want the rest of the world to see.

 

They were not stolen they were confiscated. The people aboard the ships were told they were entering a naval blockade and they kept on going so they forfeit they right once they kept on going the IDF acted and stopped them from entering. The IDF confiscated everything on the ships.

 

Which in no way explains why the whole, unedited videos have not been released to the public.

 

which is why some of them were shot in the back right?

 

That means that they could have done a hit and run.

Or they were running below decks when their prayers were interupted by the fighting.

 

basically those quotes are saying that they wanted to be matyrs, by dieing while helping others. Joan of arc was a matyr. People have to get it out of there heads that the only definition of a matyr is to kill yourself and kill others while doing it.

 

In present times martyr is to kill yourself and kill others while doing it or trying to at least.

mar·tyr   /ˈmɑrtər/ Show Spelled[mahr-ter] Show IPA

–noun

1. a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.

2. a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause: a martyr to the cause of social justice.

3. a person who undergoes severe or constant suffering: a martyr to severe headaches.

4. a person who seeks sympathy or attention by feigning or exaggerating pain, deprivation, etc.

 

4 fits best. The leaders of this event wanted to show israel stopping an aid convoy of peaceful protestors to draw attention to gaza. Everyone on board was told that if they were boarded to make a human ring around the bridge so that israel would have to physically move unarmed, peaceful protestors out of their way. If not gaza would still get the much needed suplies.

 

Somewhere along the line something provoked the violence.

 

Proof? or is this more it must be true because the IDF says so?

 

Basically this entire article comes down to they are terrorists because the IDF says so. Which is why there needs to be an international investigation.

 

Why would the IDF give away it sources try thinking before you talk

they would give up their sources if they wanted the rest of the world to verify if it was actually true or not.

You don't have to understand their mind, its common sense! If someone is an extremeist and is willing to die for their cause, they'll do it for free. If someone is a and makes their money this way then there's no way in hell he's gonna risk his pay check..

 

They were mercenary extremest hired to fight the IDF when it boarded the ship as i previously stated there is no way for me to understand a terrorist mind

 

When do newspapers give away there sources?.

When one wishes to be believed.

 

Nobody looks for the source of a newspaper article and newspapers don't give away their sources

 

Which in no way explains why the whole, unedited videos have not been released to the public.

 

The IDF doesn't need to release anything next time don't try running a naval blockaded or you will suffer the consequences

 

That means that they could have done a hit and run.

Or they were running below decks when their prayers were interupted by the fighting.

 

Their prayer were not interrupted by fighting because they started it please go by the facts and don't try to lie here is some evidence for you

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE

 

4 fits best. The leaders of this event wanted to show israel stopping an aid convoy of peaceful protestors to draw attention to gaza. Everyone on board was told that if they were boarded to make a human ring around the bridge so that israel would have to physically move unarmed, peaceful protestors out of their way. If not gaza would still get the much needed suplies.

 

Somewhere along the line something provoked the violence.

 

The video above proves they provoked the violence not the IDF. They were certainly not unarmed, and peaceful protesters as a said the video proves it

 

they would give up their sources if they wanted the rest of the world to verify if it was actually true or not.

 

The IDF has a reason for not giving a source for all you know someone collaborated with Israel giving them the information

Although most of the recent talk regarding flotillas has revolved around ships sailing toward Gaza, at least two plans have emerged for reverse flotillas from Israel toward Turkey to highlight what organizers have labeled the Turks shameless hypocrisy in their criticisms of the Jewish state.

 

The most ambitious of the two plans has been devised by members of Israels National Student Union, who this week announced their intention to set sail toward Turkey, in an effort to bring humanitarian aid to the oppressed people of Turkish Kurdistan and to members of the Turkish Armenian minority.

 

Full story here.

Although most of the recent talk regarding flotillas has revolved around ships sailing toward Gaza, at least two plans have emerged for reverse flotillas from Israel toward Turkey to highlight what organizers have labeled the Turks shameless hypocrisy in their criticisms of the Jewish state.

 

The most ambitious of the two plans has been devised by members of Israels National Student Union, who this week announced their intention to set sail toward Turkey, in an effort to bring humanitarian aid to the oppressed people of Turkish Kurdistan and to members of the Turkish Armenian minority.

 

Full story here.

 

Brilliant and comic. :thumbup:

Although most of the recent talk regarding flotillas has revolved around ships sailing toward Gaza, at least two plans have emerged for reverse flotillas from Israel toward Turkey to highlight what organizers have labeled the Turks shameless hypocrisy in their criticisms of the Jewish state.

 

The most ambitious of the two plans has been devised by members of Israels National Student Union, who this week announced their intention to set sail toward Turkey, in an effort to bring humanitarian aid to the oppressed people of Turkish Kurdistan and to members of the Turkish Armenian minority.

 

Full story here.

 

Brilliant and comic. :thumbup:

 

Reading this brought me great feelings and proudness of my country of ישראל

You and two other Israelis seem to be the only ones here who think anything about this event should lead to feelings of "pride".

 

That should tell you something (though it probably won't).

You and two other Israelis seem to be the only ones here who think anything about this event should lead to feelings of "pride".

 

That should tell you something (though it probably won't).

What? what are you trying to say.

You and two other Israelis seem to be the only ones here who think anything about this event should lead to feelings of "pride".

 

That should tell you something (though it probably won't).

 

Atleast I have a feeling of pride for my home country. All I've seen you ever do is criticize others. In retrospect, it seems like you think of yourself as smarter than anyone else.

Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.

 

Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.

 

Now that we're 24 pages into this discussion and it is winding down a bit, I'll tell you a bit about myself.

 

I'm Jewish. I was raised quite observantly. I went to a Jewish day school. I've been a very strong supporter of Israel for many years.

 

Just last month I donated $100 to the UJA, a charity that raises money for Israeli causes. I spent $5,000 last year sending my oldest son on a month-long trip across the country. I still have Israeli savings bonds that I decided not to cash in to allow Israel to keep using the money effectively interest-free.

 

And what I've seen over the last couple of weeks has utterly embarrassed me. The behavior of the Israelis, and mindless sycophants like on this thread, has been simply shameful.

 

I am now strongly reconsidering sending any more money to Israel or supporting the country in any way until it cleans up its act.

 

Israel has no idea how big of a hole it is digging for itself thanks to the "Israeli George W. Bush" and the people who support him. He is leading you down the road to ruin just as surely as the real Bush did us.

 

The difference is that we have the resources to recover from those failed policies, and you do not.

 

There's nothing to be proud of here, except to those too ignorant or stupid to understand the big picture.

You and two other Israelis seem to be the only ones here who think anything about this event should lead to feelings of "pride".

 

That should tell you something (though it probably won't).

 

Arduan, and by that rule, Turkey, pulled an anti-PR stunt on Israel. Israel can be blamed for swallowing it, but it was done, and done out of hypocracy. Arduan himself made sure not to be found in Turkey at the time the foltilla set sail, to make sure it doesn't look like he was the one to arrange it.

 

Now Israelis are trying to create awareness of the hypocracy, and I'm proud of that.

Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.

 

Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.

everyone has pride in their country especially Israelis who have so much to be proud of.

Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.

 

Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.

everyone has pride in their country especially Israelis have so much to be proud of.

 

Thank you for proving my point so succinctly.

Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.

 

Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.

everyone has pride in their country especially Israelis have so much to be proud of.

 

Thank you for proving my point so succinctly.

please tell me How did i proved your point?

Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.

 

Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.

everyone has pride in their country especially Israelis have so much to be proud of.

 

Thank you for proving my point so succinctly.

How did i prove your point?

 

Basically, he's calling you unintelligent. But please, lets not roll down to personal lines and snide comments.

Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.

 

Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.

 

Now that we're 24 pages into this discussion and it is winding down a bit, I'll tell you a bit about myself.

 

I'm Jewish. I was raised quite observantly. I went to a Jewish day school. I've been a very strong supporter of Israel for many years.

 

Just last month I donated $100 to the UJA, a charity that raises money for Israeli causes. I spent $5,000 last year sending my oldest son on a month-long trip across the country. I still have Israeli savings bonds that I decided not to cash in to allow Israel to keep using the money effectively interest-free.

 

And what I've seen over the last couple of weeks has utterly embarrassed me. The behavior of the Israelis, and mindless sycophants like on this thread, has been simply shameful.

 

Israel has no idea how big of a hole it is digging for itself thanks to the "Israeli George W. Bush" and the people who support him. He is leading you down the road to ruin just as surely as the real Bush did us.

 

There's nothing to be proud of here, except to those too ignorant or stupid to understand the big picture.

 

Are you done yet? All you seem to be able to do is blame other people. Firstly, donating money means very little. You don't donate to be proud of it and use it in an argument, you do it because it's the right thing to do. Second, money is not relevent to this conversation. Third, Bush Is leading? Bush isn't president anymore Charles, Obama is. And the fact that Obama doesn't support us, and is already seen as an uneffective leader, both in national and foreign manners, means that Israel can stand on its own two feet. Of course the support of the U.S is important, but we won't be demolished easily without it either.

 

What you've seen over the last two weeks embarrasses you? Dude, where have you been for the past.. Forever? You choose to blame who ever come to mind for you. Look, Israel has common sense, and you cannot seem to understand that. I've lived in the U.S for a while now, and very few people here have common sense. Why do you think I love Israel so much? People here are intellegent.

 

People have different opinions, but if you ever try to take my opinion about how I feel about my country, then I truly lost all respect for you Charles.

 

Unfortunatly, coming from a 14 year old, this whole post means nothing to you.

Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.

 

Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.

everyone has pride in their country especially Israelis who have so much to be proud of.

 

I don't have pride in my country. Nationalism can go [bleep] itself. It is one of the key forces in tribalism, which is why we have wars. The only time I will support nationalism is when a people use it to overthrow a dictator. The Green Revolution in Iran, for instance, using nationalistic pride would have been acceptable in that instance as a binding force for the Iranian people to get rid of their horrid theocracy.

 

What really gets me, though, are United States citizens, who are the biggest self-declared "patriots" in the country, also always seem to be the ones to defend Israel and the Confederacy before their own nation. It's mind boggling, but not unsurprising. It's that tribal nature, and sometimes, ethnic and religious pride trumps your own countrymen; it's still nationalism, and it's bigoted and disgusting.

 

And the fact that Obama doesn't support us, and is already seen as an uneffective leader, both in national and foreign manners, means that Israel can stand on its own two feet.

 

What do you define as "support"? Undying love for Israel that means they can do w/e the [bleep] they want? If you mean Jews, most Jews vote Democratic. The only Jewish Republican representative left in Congress is Eric Cantor, an insufferable douche bag who also happens to be my representative. Ineffective? Man are you a partisan hack. He just got the UN to approve of sanctions. CHINA. He got CHINA to approve of sanctions on Iran. I don't approve of sanctions. Just like the blockade, they're both ineffective and only hurt the poor and middle classes of the respective nations. However, China more than any other nation never approves of "meddling" because that would mean they'd have to deal with the giant red marker on their own soil: Tibet. He got China to approve of sanctions...and you're calling him ineffective. I don't know what world you live in, mate, but I want some of that weed you're smoking.

 

Last, Israel cannot "stand on its own two feet." If the US dropped Israel's aid, they would be at that negotiating table faster than you can count to three.

Now that we're 24 pages into this discussion and it is winding down a bit, I'll tell you a bit about myself.

 

I'm Jewish. I was raised quite observantly. I went to a Jewish day school. I've been a very strong supporter of Israel for many years.

 

Just last month I donated $100 to the UJA, a charity that raises money for Israeli causes. I spent $5,000 last year sending my oldest son on a month-long trip across the country. I still have Israeli savings bonds that I decided not to cash in to allow Israel to keep using the money effectively interest-free.

 

And what I've seen over the last couple of weeks has utterly embarrassed me. The behavior of the Israelis, and mindless sycophants like on this thread, has been simply shameful.

 

I am now strongly reconsidering sending any more money to Israel or supporting the country in any way until it cleans up its act.

 

Israel has no idea how big of a hole it is digging for itself thanks to the "Israeli George W. Bush" and the people who support him. He is leading you down the road to ruin just as surely as the real Bush did us.

 

The difference is that we have the resources to recover from those failed policies, and you do not.

 

There's nothing to be proud of here, except to those too ignorant or stupid to understand the big picture.

 

What you have seen over the last couple of weeks that embarrassed you? What in the last couple of changed you mind the flotilla staged by the Turkish government, to make Israel look bad to the world by defending itself. Once you hear the facts and don't ignore you should understand the real picture and understand that Israel was right

 

 

I don't have pride in my country. Nationalism can go [bleep] itself. It is one of the key forces in tribalism, which is why we have wars. The only time I will support nationalism is when a people use it to overthrow a dictator. The Green Revolution in Iran, for instance, using nationalistic pride would have been acceptable in that instance as a binding force for the Iranian people to get rid of their horrid theocracy.

 

Just because you don't have pride in your country doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't have pride in their own country.

 

What do you define as "support"? Undying love for Israel that means they can do w/e the [bleep] they want? If you mean Jews, most Jews vote Democratic. The only Jewish Republican representative left in Congress is Eric Cantor, an insufferable douche bag who also happens to be my representative. Ineffective? Man are you a partisan hack. He just got the UN to approve of sanctions. CHINA. He got CHINA to approve of sanctions on Iran. I don't approve of sanctions. Just like the blockade, they're both ineffective and only hurt the poor and middle classes of the respective nations. However, China more than any other nation never approves of "meddling" because that would mean they'd have to deal with the giant red marker on their own soil: Tibet. He got China to approve of sanctions...and you're calling him ineffective. I don't know what world you live in, mate, but I want some of that weed you're smoking.

 

Last, Israel cannot "stand on its own two feet." If the US dropped Israel's aid, they would be at that negotiating table faster than you can count to three.

 

First of all Israel doesn't do what ever it wants. Second What does Eric Cantor have to do with this?

 

Israel CAN stand on its own two feet without the USA and the USA needs Israel just as much then Israel needs it

 

 

Last, Israel cannot "stand on its own two feet." If the US dropped Israel's aid, they would be at that negotiating table faster than you can count to three.

 

As you've said it before, give me some of the weed you're smoking because that sounds like you pulled that fact straight out of your ass.

 

 

Last, Israel cannot "stand on its own two feet." If the US dropped Israel's aid, they would be at that negotiating table faster than you can count to three.

 

As you've said it before, give me some of the weed you're smoking because that sounds like you pulled that fact straight out of your ass.

 

Just like with everything else Israel related, you're alone in the world with that belief.

 

Oh, and just like I suspected, the IDF killed people execution style, not out of "self-defense." Iunno who provided the video, I don't know who it is that they're killing, but now we have some proof of my suspicions. The video claims it is the Turkish national and American citizen Furkan Dogan, but I'm not going to stand by that assertion because I can't see who it is:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlElXOJV4CA

Just like with everything else Israel related, you're alone in the world with that belief.

 

He is not alone he has the truth on his side (and me and the rest of Israel and the Jewish nation)

 

Oh, and just like I suspected, the IDF killed people execution style, not out of "self-defense." Iunno who provided the video, I don't know who it is that they're killing, but now we have some proof of my suspicions. The video claims it is the Turkish national and American citizen Furkan Dogan, but I'm not going to stand by that assertion because I can't see who it is:

 

I am sorry but this video looks like a fake, second that is a paintball gun being fired not a gun, at night you would see a flash from the gun.

Skip this post, I wanted to say something but decided against it.

It posted for some reason.

Oh, and just like I suspected, the IDF killed people execution style, not out of "self-defense." Iunno who provided the video, I don't know who it is that they're killing, but now we have some proof of my suspicions. The video claims it is the Turkish national and American citizen Furkan Dogan, but I'm not going to stand by that assertion because I can't see who it is:

 

I am sorry but this video looks like a fake, second that is a paintball gun being fired not a gun, at night you would see a flash from the gun.

 

Lol. Do tell, sir or madam, what looks fake about it? Are you so blinded that you can't accept the video proof right in front of your eyes? I don't know who died in this video, but the one thing that is absolutely undeniable is the fact that the IDF soldier is armed with a rifle (@0:16s), not a paint gun nor a 9mm pistol, as the IDF has repeatedly claimed. Frikkin' liars.