More reasons to never trust the IDF, ever:

 

The Israeli Defense Force has issued a "clarification" admitting it manipulated audio of its raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.

 

On Friday, the IDF released audio of what it said was an exchange between Israel Navy officers and the crew of the Mavi Marmara, the main vessel in the flotilla. In it, voices could be heard telling the Israeli soldiers to "go back to Auschwitz" and "we're helping Arabs go against the US -- don't forget 9/11, guys."

 

But flotilla passengers quickly began disputing the veracity of the audio clip.

 

Investigative journalist Max Blumenthal reports that the head of the Free Gaza movement, Huwaida Arraf, could be heard on the videotape asserting the flotilla's right to enter Gaza territory. But Arraf says she wasn't on board the Mavi Marmara, and was actually on board another ship, the Challenger One. Another flotilla member whose voice can be heard on the audio, Ali Abunimah, also said he wasn't aboard the Mavi Marmara.

 

According to a news report from the Palestinian news agency Ma'an, Arraf suggests the audio of her that appeared in the clip came from an earlier exchange between her and Israeli forces, but she admits she "could not be sure" she didn't repeat her assertion during exchanges with the IDF during the raid.

 

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0606/idf-admits-doctoring-audio-gaza-flotilla/

 

This is why I trust Max Blumenthal, local ;)

 

What's [bleep]ing wrong with them? Didn't it occur to them people are going to check it out :S?

 

 

 

EDIT: I listened to the full recording. Apparently, they didn't edit anything in, only out. As in, the Auchwits (found at 2:05) and 9/11 (5:40) comments were infact real, just weren't sent from the Mavi Marmara (but other ships).

But still, who ever took the decision to edit parts of it was dumb.

here are the facts

 

Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them.

 

Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute.

 

Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.

 

Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.

 

Fact 5: Israel repeatedly, and expressly, made clear to those who organized the effort to break the embargo that it would willingly take all of the humanitarian aid that was on their boats and transfer it to Gaza, without delay. All that Israel wanted was to be able to ensure that materials were, in fact, humanitarian aid, rather than the sorts of materials used for launching attacks that are supplied to Hamas by the Iranians and others. The organizers of the flotilla refused â because, of course, getting humanitarian aid to Gaza was not what their gambit was really about.

 

Fact 6: Israel regularly provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and volunteering to get the humanitarian aid from the ships to Gaza was consistent with Israeli policy all along.

 

And Fact 7, which is now coming to light several days after the initial and predictable barrage of criticism of Israel: Those on at least one of the ships planned all along to attack Israelis when they sought to enforce the embargo, and indeed, their attack on the Israelis was brutal.

 

This fact has been starkly captured in video widely circulating around the Internet, showing the vicious beatings initiated by those on board one of the ships against Israelis, who for their part had been instructed to refrain from using any force if at all possible. Indeed, in Israel the military is being criticized for failing to adequately prepare its naval personnel to anticipate the attacks on them from the boats, and for being too passive, and too trusting, in its approach to the flotilla.

 

As for the evidence that certain individuals of those responsible for orchestrating this tragedy are linked to Al Qaeda and other representatives of the worst forces on the planet, the next days will likely yield more information.

 

But the larger issue is this: Has the desire to blame Israel in certain quarters reached such an irrational frenzy that the fundamental facts of any issue relating to the Middle East conflict will reliably be overlooked? Are those who are committed to a fair-minded and reasonable analysis of that conflict prepared to insist that others who like nothing more than jumping to conclusions stop, pause, think, and consider the actual evidence?

 

There will always be those who dont let facts to get in the way of their biases. But fair-minded people examine the evidence before forming conclusions, especially when emotions run high. Israel and the cause of peace in the Middle East is counting on them to do just that.

here are the real facts

 

Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them.

 

True but israel is not helping matters at all. If you are forced out of your home and watch it bulldozed in front of you are you just gonna go oh well israel has a right to defend itself. Or if you get carpet bombed and have white phosforus used against you ( a chemical which in some cases is even worse then napalm). Israel may not have started the violence but these disproportionat responces are doing nothing to lessen it.

 

Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute.

True, but they are the elected leaders. Support for hamas would end if israel actually gave the palastinians a better alternative. Starving and bombing them will just keep increaseing hamas's support as more people begin to hate israel.

 

Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.

And israel's overzealous responces will just make more people want payback.

 

Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.

Yes because colouring books can be used to make missles right?

 

Fact 5: Israel repeatedly, and expressly, made clear to those who organized the effort to break the embargo that it would willingly take all of the humanitarian aid that was on their boats and transfer it to Gaza, without delay. All that Israel wanted was to be able to ensure that materials were, in fact, humanitarian aid, rather than the sorts of materials used for launching attacks that are supplied to Hamas by the Iranians and others. The organizers of the flotilla refused â because, of course, getting humanitarian aid to Gaza was not what their gambit was really about.

 

I'm getting tired of people quoting this. The actual deal was to send any humanitarian aid to gaza which was not on their banned items list. Which is a great chunk of what that convoy was carrying.

 

Fact 6: Israel regularly provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and volunteering to get the humanitarian aid from the ships to Gaza was consistent with Israeli policy all along.

do some research for yourself instead of just quoting party lines. research how much aid israel sends into gaza and what they don't allow in then get back to us.

 

 

And Fact 7, which is now coming to light several days after the initial and predictable barrage of criticism of Israel: Those on at least one of the ships planned all along to attack Israelis when they sought to enforce the embargo, and indeed, their attack on the Israelis was brutal.

There is also reports that the commandos launched tear gas onto the ship before boarding and that some of them hit and wounded several of the activists and that is what caused the agressive responce.

 

This fact has been starkly captured in video widely circulating around the Internet, showing the vicious beatings initiated by those on board one of the ships against Israelis, who for their part had been instructed to refrain from using any force if at all possible. Indeed, in Israel the military is being criticized for failing to adequately prepare its naval personnel to anticipate the attacks on them from the boats, and for being too passive, and too trusting, in its approach to the flotilla.

what is also not shown in those videos is how the medical staff on board the ship was carring for both wounded commandos and activists alike and how once the ship was capured the medics were tied up and forced to watch at least one of their patients die because israeli medics never got on board in time. or even any footage of people getting shot in the back while they were running for their lives.

 

As for the evidence that certain individuals of those responsible for orchestrating this tragedy are linked to Al Qaeda and other representatives of the worst forces on the planet, the next days will likely yield more information.

... israel still can't actually be trying to spin that can they?

 

But the larger issue is this: Has the desire to blame Israel in certain quarters reached such an irrational frenzy that the fundamental facts of any issue relating to the Middle East conflict will reliably be overlooked? Are those who are committed to a fair-minded and reasonable analysis of that conflict prepared to insist that others who like nothing more than jumping to conclusions stop, pause, think, and consider the actual evidence?

 

There will always be those who dont let facts to get in the way of their biases. But fair-minded people examine the evidence before forming conclusions, especially when emotions run high. Israel and the cause of peace in the Middle East is counting on them to do just that.

Or maby it is finally opening some peoples eyes to how low israel will actually sink to in the name of "security".

Plus, information from a user named "ISREAL" isn't necessarily the most objective information that you'll receive concerning Israel. Of course he would say that Israel is the good guy. :roll:

Plus, information from a user named "ISREAL" isn't necessarily the most objective information that you'll receive concerning Israel. Of course he would say that Israel is the good guy. :roll:

Oh, so if I said the exact same things they'd be ok?

 

Check the facts, don't just assume they are wrong.

He didn't say they weren't facts, he just questioned the other user's objectivity.

I want to present another, local fact: Norway has sent medical equipment, payed by our taxpayers, to aid the basic humanitarian situation in gaza: röntgen machines, blood pressure gauges, and medicines. These goods arrived in Israel to clear customs in mid december of least year. they are still stuck in storage.

 

The presentation of facts is good and all, but the selection of facts is equally important: what you choose to present or omit shows what kind of spin you want to put on the situation.

 

why should the hospitals in gaza not have the equipment to diagnose cancer effectively? why should they not be able to measure air pressure? why shouldn't they be allowed noodles?

 

I think Israel needs to learn what the Americans learned in the mid-sixties (i believe it was): proportional response. That's how you ensure you have the moral integrity terrorists, extremists and other groups you don't want to be associated to don't have.

He didn't say they weren't facts, he just questioned the other user's objectivity.

Oh, well, then let me: they aren't facts, at least not most of them -- rather, it is a collection of claims, opinions, half-truths and outright lies, with the occasional fact thrown in.

 

(And no, I'm not wasting an hour ripping the whole thing to shreds, as nearly all of it has been covered in this thread, which "ISREAL63" likely didn't read.)

I want to present another, local fact: Norway has sent medical equipment, payed by our taxpayers, to aid the basic humanitarian situation in gaza: röntgen machines, blood pressure gauges, and medicines. These goods arrived in Israel to clear customs in mid december of least year. they are still stuck in storage.

 

The presentation of facts is good and all, but the selection of facts is equally important: what you choose to present or omit shows what kind of spin you want to put on the situation.

 

why should the hospitals in gaza not have the equipment to diagnose cancer effectively? why should they not be able to measure air pressure? why shouldn't they be allowed noodles?

 

I think Israel needs to learn what the Americans learned in the mid-sixties (i believe it was): proportional response. That's how you ensure you have the moral integrity terrorists, extremists and other groups you don't want to be associated to don't have.

 

You may like to know Hamas is refusing all the humanitarian aid.

I want to present another, local fact: Norway has sent medical equipment, payed by our taxpayers, to aid the basic humanitarian situation in gaza: röntgen machines, blood pressure gauges, and medicines. These goods arrived in Israel to clear customs in mid december of least year. they are still stuck in storage.

 

The presentation of facts is good and all, but the selection of facts is equally important: what you choose to present or omit shows what kind of spin you want to put on the situation.

 

why should the hospitals in gaza not have the equipment to diagnose cancer effectively? why should they not be able to measure air pressure? why shouldn't they be allowed noodles?

 

I think Israel needs to learn what the Americans learned in the mid-sixties (i believe it was): proportional response. That's how you ensure you have the moral integrity terrorists, extremists and other groups you don't want to be associated to don't have.

 

You may like to know Hamas is refusing all the humanitarian aid.

 

Of course they refuse the aid. Israel's torment of the area only keeps them in power, and gives them an excuse not to govern; they don't actually have to govern and can blame Israel for everything. You can't maintain an electrical and sewer infrastructure when Israel constantly destroys them, so why rebuild it? And that's exactly what Hamas tells the people of Gaza, and they lap that [cabbage] right up. Hey, that's just like what Israel does! "We can't have a peace settlement when they keep launching rockets, so...." It's kind of how the Republicans constantly obstructing everything the Democrats want to do gives the Democrats an excuse not to govern properly; sure, it's a much more understandable excuse than Hamas's, but it's still an excuse of abdicating responsibility. Israel's government and Hamas, two peas in a pod while their respective peoples suffer. I'm still waiting for the day that Fatah rids itself of corruption and returns to power (well, all governments are corrupt, but to the point where they actually do something for their people instead of taking all of the money). Still, if the West Bank and Gaza held elections together, Fatah WOULD be in power. So how about giving the Palestinians a state and end your country's torment and occupation?

Fact 1: The Gaza Strip is an armed camp, ruled with an iron fist by a repressive Hamas regime that has not only repeatedly pledged itself to the annihilation of Israel and the torpedoing of any prospects for Middle East peace, but has made good on its pledges by firing approximately 10,000 missiles, rockets, and mortar bombs at Israeli civilians over the past several years for the express purpose of killing or wounding those civilians or, at a minimum, terrifying them.

 

True but israel is not helping matters at all. If you are forced out of your home and watch it bulldozed in front of you are you just gonna go oh well israel has a right to defend itself. Or if you get carpet bombed and have white phosforus used against you ( a chemical which in some cases is even worse then napalm). Israel may not have started the violence but these disproportionat responces are doing nothing to lessen it.

 

Israel only destroys homes of terrorist and it only bombs places that have proven to have terrorist or weapons. The use of white phosphorus was a claim by hamas it was never proven to be true

 

Fact 2: The United States, the European Union, and the international community have recognized that Hamas is a terrorist enterprise, which surely is beyond dispute.

True, but they are the elected leaders. Support for hamas would end if israel actually gave the palastinians a better alternative. Starving and bombing them will just keep increaseing hamas's support as more people begin to hate israel.

 

Hamas is a terrorist organization meaning it can't have elected leaders. What alternative is there? How is Gaza is starving they have basic foods everything else is not allowed in because hamas will use it against Israel.

 

Fact 3: When faced with an armed enemy committed to its destruction, which has done its very best to make war against Israeli civilians, Israel has two choices: to try to protect its civilians from those attacks, or to simply shrug its shoulders and hope that the attacks stop. There is, quite simply, no nation on earth that would choose the latter course, and no reasonable and fair-minded person who would expect it to.

And israel's overzealous responces will just make more people want payback.

 

What overzealous responses has Israel done?

 

Fact 4: In an effort to stop the missiles from being manufactured and used against it, and only for that reason, Israel has been forced to try to keep the materials used for that purpose out of the Gaza Strip. This is an obvious step needed to prevent the kind of war that caused so much destruction in 2008, when the increase in attacks by Hamas and its allies against Israeli civilians eventually triggered an Israeli response to stop them. There can be no real doubt that Israel is entitled to keep weapons of war from being used against it.

Yes because colouring books can be used to make missles right?

 

The blocked is designed to force the Palestinians to overthrow Hamas so yes even coloring books are acceptable

 

Fact 5: Israel repeatedly, and expressly, made clear to those who organized the effort to break the embargo that it would willingly take all of the humanitarian aid that was on their boats and transfer it to Gaza, without delay. All that Israel wanted was to be able to ensure that materials were, in fact, humanitarian aid, rather than the sorts of materials used for launching attacks that are supplied to Hamas by the Iranians and others. The organizers of the flotilla refused – because, of course, getting humanitarian aid to Gaza was not what their gambit was really about.

 

I'm getting tired of people quoting this. The actual deal was to send any humanitarian aid to gaza which was not on their banned items list. Which is a great chunk of what that convoy was carrying.

 

On the flotilla ship the IDF found there were knives, slingshots and night vision goggles, which indicate hostile goals.

 

Fact 6: Israel regularly provides humanitarian aid to Gaza, and volunteering to get the humanitarian aid from the ships to Gaza was consistent with Israeli policy all along.

do some research for yourself instead of just quoting party lines. research how much aid israel sends into gaza and what they don't allow in then get back to us.

 

In the first quarter of 2010, 94,500 tons of supplies were transferred in 3,676 trucks to the Strip: 48,000 tons of food products; 40,000 tons of wheat; 2,760 tons of rice; 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear; 553 tons of milk powder and baby food.

for the rest of the article http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/137726

 

And Fact 7, which is now coming to light several days after the initial and predictable barrage of criticism of Israel: Those on at least one of the ships planned all along to attack Israelis when they sought to enforce the embargo, and indeed, their attack on the Israelis was brutal.

There is also reports that the commandos launched tear gas onto the ship before boarding and that some of them hit and wounded several of the activists and that is what caused the agressive responce.

 

There is proof that before the IDF went on the ship they prepared weapons there is not proof of commandos launched tear gas onto the ship before boarding it because it didn't happen they hand paint ball guns in case of a emergency that was there only weapon

 

This fact has been starkly captured in video widely circulating around the Internet, showing the vicious beatings initiated by those on board one of the ships against Israelis, who for their part had been instructed to refrain from using any force if at all possible. Indeed, in Israel the military is being criticized for failing to adequately prepare its naval personnel to anticipate the attacks on them from the boats, and for being too passive, and too trusting, in its approach to the flotilla.

what is also not shown in those videos is how the medical staff on board the ship was carring for both wounded commandos and activists alike and how once the ship was capured the medics were tied up and forced to watch at least one of their patients die because israeli medics never got on board in time. or even any footage of people getting shot in the back while they were running for their lives.

 

Where did you here this lie?

 

As for the evidence that certain individuals of those responsible for orchestrating this tragedy are linked to Al Qaeda and other representatives of the worst forces on the planet, the next days will likely yield more information.

... israel still can't actually be trying to spin that can they?

 

Its true and there evidence they some of them were connected to terrorist organizations.

 

But the larger issue is this: Has the desire to blame Israel in certain quarters reached such an irrational frenzy that the fundamental facts of any issue relating to the Middle East conflict will reliably be overlooked? Are those who are committed to a fair-minded and reasonable analysis of that conflict prepared to insist that others who like nothing more than jumping to conclusions stop, pause, think, and consider the actual evidence?

 

There will always be those who don’t let facts to get in the way of their biases. But fair-minded people examine the evidence before forming conclusions, especially when emotions run high. Israel – and the cause of peace in the Middle East – is counting on them to do just that.

Or maby it is finally opening some peoples eyes to how low israel will actually sink to in the name of "security".

 

There you just proved what you quoted

He didn't say they weren't facts, he just questioned the other user's objectivity.

Oh, well, then let me: they aren't facts, at least not most of them -- rather, it is a collection of claims, opinions, half-truths and outright lies, with the occasional fact thrown in.

 

(And no, I'm not wasting an hour ripping the whole thing to shreds, as nearly all of it has been covered in this thread, which "ISREAL63" likely didn't read.)

i read it all before posting don't make accusations falsely

Israel only destroys homes of terrorist and it only bombs places that have proven to have terrorist or weapons. The use of white phosphorus was a claim by hamas it was never proven to be true

 

Here I was under the impression that Newt Gingrich held the record for most falsehoods in one single utterance. This is a lie, and is straight out of the IDF's playbook. Their destroying of homes has been condemned by everyone from the UN to every human rights organization. They bulldoze homes to increase the settler's access to more land, plain and simple. Second, white phosphorous WAS used, even your own government admits that now:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5556027.ece

 

Not to mention they used it in Lebanon:

 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-admits-using-phosphorus-bombs-during-war-in-lebanon-1.203078

 

Hamas is a terrorist organization meaning it can't have elected leaders.

 

Hamas is a terrorist organization, and they also happen to be the elected government of the strip. Ignoring this fact doesn't do you any good. You're going to have to deal with reality sooner or later, hopefully sooner.

 

How is Gaza is starving they have basic foods everything else is not allowed in because hamas will use it against Israel.

 

Are you seriously questioning that there's a humanitarian crisis there? They're getting 1/4 of what they need in food, not to mention that 90%+ of their water is undrinkable.

 

What overzealous responses has Israel done?

 

More or less every military action since the 6-Day War. However, even before that, I'd call the ethnic cleansing that took place in 1948 to be quite "overzealous."

 

The blocked is designed to force the Palestinians to overthrow Hamas so yes even coloring books are acceptable

 

So you admit that it's not about weapons? Good, I'm glad. Too bad your cognitive dissonance gets in the way all of the time. I bet three sentences down the road you'll say the blockade isn't about regime change and collective punishment but about weapons.

 

On the flotilla ship the IDF found there were knives, slingshots and night vision goggles, which indicate hostile goals.

 

LOL! Oh dear lord. Night vision goggles = al Qaeda! I've actually heard that being espoused by the IDF on their website. They've since retracted those claims.

 

In the first quarter of 2010, 94,500 tons of supplies were transferred in 3,676 trucks to the Strip: 48,000 tons of food products; 40,000 tons of wheat; 2,760 tons of rice; 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear; 553 tons of milk powder and baby food.

for the rest of the article http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/137726

 

Congratulations, you allowed 1/4 of the food that they need. When someone says that the US is spending $20 billion on jobs, it sounds like a lot. When you mention that this is only 0.15% of GDP, it's chump change. Put your facts into context.

 

There is proof that before the IDF went on the ship they prepared weapons there is not proof of commandos launched tear gas onto the ship before boarding it because it didn't happen they hand paint ball guns in case of a emergency that was there only weapon

 

Lies. Not only will the government disagree with you (they were also armed with pistols), but every eye-witness account disagrees with you. We're coming down to a he said/she said moment, but you know how we could rectify this? If Israel stopped releasing fragments of tape and released all of it, unedited. Why wouldn't they allow journalists in? Why did they seize personal cameras and cell phones? Why won't they release all of the tapes? Use Occam's Razor, and my answer makes more sense than yours: the IDF is full of [cabbage].

 

Oh, wait, we have evidence they launched tear gas before boarding:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0GY-wFjFF8

 

Where did you here this lie?

 

You can hear it on the damned audio! “Despite the raising of white flags, the Israeli army is still shooting.” You can hear it!

 

Its true and there evidence they some of them were connected to terrorist organizations.

 

No:

 

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/2010/06/04/was-the-gaza-flotilla-linked-to-terrorists-.html

I want to present another, local fact: Norway has sent medical equipment, payed by our taxpayers, to aid the basic humanitarian situation in gaza: röntgen machines, blood pressure gauges, and medicines. These goods arrived in Israel to clear customs in mid december of least year. they are still stuck in storage.

 

The presentation of facts is good and all, but the selection of facts is equally important: what you choose to present or omit shows what kind of spin you want to put on the situation.

 

why should the hospitals in gaza not have the equipment to diagnose cancer effectively? why should they not be able to measure air pressure? why shouldn't they be allowed noodles?

 

I think Israel needs to learn what the Americans learned in the mid-sixties (i believe it was): proportional response. That's how you ensure you have the moral integrity terrorists, extremists and other groups you don't want to be associated to don't have.

 

You may like to know Hamas is refusing all the humanitarian aid.

 

actually, they're not refusing medicines and medical apparatuses. The hospitals aren't refusing anything: you just have to bring it yourself, rather than organize it through Hamas.

 

I know for a fact that Israel is to blame for this batch of medicine, at least. you can get around government in almost all cases when you bring items legally into a country, because there are very few planned economies: you can skip talking to the government.

I want to present another, local fact: Norway has sent medical equipment, payed by our taxpayers, to aid the basic humanitarian situation in gaza: röntgen machines, blood pressure gauges, and medicines. These goods arrived in Israel to clear customs in mid december of least year. they are still stuck in storage.

 

The presentation of facts is good and all, but the selection of facts is equally important: what you choose to present or omit shows what kind of spin you want to put on the situation.

 

why should the hospitals in gaza not have the equipment to diagnose cancer effectively? why should they not be able to measure air pressure? why shouldn't they be allowed noodles?

 

I think Israel needs to learn what the Americans learned in the mid-sixties (i believe it was): proportional response. That's how you ensure you have the moral integrity terrorists, extremists and other groups you don't want to be associated to don't have.

 

You may like to know Hamas is refusing all the humanitarian aid.

 

Of course they refuse the aid. Israel's torment of the area only keeps them in power, and gives them an excuse not to govern; they don't actually have to govern and can blame Israel for everything. You can't maintain an electrical and sewer infrastructure when Israel constantly destroys them, so why rebuild it? And that's exactly what Hamas tells the people of Gaza, and they lap that [cabbage] right up. Hey, that's just like what Israel does! "We can't have a peace settlement when they keep launching rockets, so...." It's kind of how the Republicans constantly obstructing everything the Democrats want to do gives the Democrats an excuse not to govern properly; sure, it's a much more understandable excuse than Hamas's, but it's still an excuse of abdicating responsibility. Israel's government and Hamas, two peas in a pod while their respective peoples suffer. I'm still waiting for the day that Fatah rids itself of corruption and returns to power (well, all governments are corrupt, but to the point where they actually do something for their people instead of taking all of the money). Still, if the West Bank and Gaza held elections together, Fatah WOULD be in power. So how about giving the Palestinians a state and end your country's torment and occupation?

 

No matter how you put it, the Hamas not accepting the aid shows clearly it cares not for the people of Gaza, and would rather prevent the humanitarian aid if only to politically hurt Israel.

Here I was under the impression that Newt Gingrich held the record for most falsehoods in one single utterance. This is a lie, and is straight out of the IDF's playbook. Their destroying of homes has been condemned by everyone from the UN to every human rights organization. They bulldoze homes to increase the settler's access to more land, plain and simple. Second, white phosphorous WAS used, even your own government admits that now:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5556027.ece

 

Not to mention they used it in Lebanon:

 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-admits-using-phosphorus-bombs-during-war-in-lebanon-1.203078

 

Just because the UN condemned it doesn't mean that there Israel wasn't right, Israel doesn't bulldoze homes to give "settlers" more land if anything it bulldoze Jewish homes to give to Arabs. I didn't know that Israel admitted to using white phosphorous but if you read past the first paragraph you would understand why. if a terrorist is hiding by a civilian do you let him get away?

 

Hamas is a terrorist organization, and they also happen to be the elected government of the strip. Ignoring this fact doesn't do you any good. You're going to have to deal with reality sooner or later, hopefully sooner.

 

In 2001 the Taliban were the elected government controlling Afghanistan. So the the USA have the right to overthrow it, yes just like Israel has the right to overthrow hamas in Gaza

 

Are you seriously questioning that there's a humanitarian crisis there? They're getting 1/4 of what they need in food, not to mention that 90%+ of their water is undrinkable.

 

In 1967 when is conquered the Gaza strip most of the civilians were living in refugee camps and without sewage or proper water sources so if we left them in 2005 with way more then had by themselves then we did them something good. Second the UN says there there is no humanitarian crisis http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/136180

 

More or less every military action since the 6-Day War. However, even before that, I'd call the ethnic cleansing that took place in 1948 to be quite "overzealous."

 

Give me a example because every military action was done in the name of Israel's security.

 

So you admit that it's not about weapons? Good, I'm glad. Too bad your cognitive dissonance gets in the way all of the time. I bet three sentences down the road you'll say the blockade isn't about regime change and collective punishment but about weapons.

 

In August 2005 when the IDF left Gaza there was no Military blockade, in June 2007 Hamas overthrew the Fatah (PA) and Israel started a Military blockade against Hamas so its not against the Palestinians it is against hamas and if the Palestinians support a terrorist group then they deserve only bread and nothing more

 

LOL! Oh dear lord. Night vision goggles = al Qaeda! I've actually heard that being espoused by the IDF on their website. They've since retracted those claims.

 

Whe did the IDF retracted those claims?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM

 

[ Congratulations, you allowed 1/4 of the food that they need. When someone says that the US is spending $20 billion on jobs, it sounds like a lot. When you mention that this is only 0.15% of GDP, it's chump change. Put your facts into context.

 

The 20 Billion is being given to the Fatah (PA) where they give it out and they use most of it on the west bank that is their fault not Israels, and where are they suppose to get more money?

 

Lies. Not only will the government disagree with you (they were also armed with pistols), but every eye-witness account disagrees with you. We're coming down to a he said/she said moment, but you know how we could rectify this? If Israel stopped releasing fragments of tape and released all of it, unedited. Why wouldn't they allow journalists in? Why did they seize personal cameras and cell phones? Why won't they release all of the tapes? Use Occam's Razor, and my answer makes more sense than yours: the IDF is full of [cabbage].

 

Oh, wait, we have evidence they launched tear gas before boarding:

 

I am sorry but you didn't prove to me that they launched tear gas before boarding

 

You can hear it on the damned audio! Despite the raising of white flags, the Israeli army is still shooting. You can hear it!

 

You can hear but you can't see the protesters still fighting the IDF

 

Its true and there evidence they some of them were connected to terrorist organizations.

No:

 

http://www.newsweek....errorists-.html

 

As i said in the beginning read past the first paragraph

I.H.H. of maintaining ties not only to Hamas, the militant Palestinian movement that controls Gaza but to other violent factions, including Al Qaeda.

Just because the UN condemned it doesn't mean that there Israel wasn't right, Israel doesn't bulldoze homes to give "settlers" more land if anything it bulldoze Jewish homes to give to Arabs.

 

So everyone except for Israel is wrong? Not even the US will side with Israel on this issue.

 

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE15/033/2004/en/2193fae2-d5f6-11dd-bb24-1fb85fe8fa05/mde150332004en.pdf

 

Not to mention that, oh, I don't know...IT'S ILLEGAL UNDER CHAPTER FOUR OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS!

 

I didn't know that Israel admitted to using white phosphorous but if you read past the first paragraph you would understand why. if a terrorist is hiding by a civilian do you let him get away?

 

Yeah, you would understand why it's ok for Israel to commit war crimes. Not.

 

In 2001 the Taliban were the elected government controlling Afghanistan. So the the USA have the right to overthrow it, yes just like Israel has the right to overthrow hamas in Gaza

 

You have no right to overthrow their government anymore than we had the right to overthrow Iraq and Afghanistan. The Iraq War was illegal. Second, we're not overthrowing the Taliban. There's going to be a compromise whereby they are left in charge of certain areas. Mark my words. Third, we didn't go there to overthrow the Taliban, we went there because they refused to handover the al Qaeda members responsible. That was perfectly legal to do.

 

Are you saying you declared war on Gaza and the West Bank? If so, you've committed more war crimes than I have asserted, as the people in Gaza would be under your authority under the Geneva Conventions.

 

In 1967 when is conquered the Gaza strip most of the civilians were living in refugee camps and without sewage or proper water sources so if we left them in 2005 with way more then had by themselves then we did them something good.

 

Wow, are you Lieberman's child? I haven't seen something this wicked stated since Pat Buchanan said that America did the blacks a favor by enslaving them and bringing them to America, where their standards of living would be better than in Africa.

 

Second the UN says there there is no humanitarian crisis http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/136180

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7191359.stm

 

You know, I don't think we can get these two sides to come to any agreement. Well... except perhaps this next statement by Charles Krauthammer may be the stupidest [bleep]ing thing anyone's ever said about the Middle East ever.

 

Krauthammer (Fox News, May 31 broadcast): "What exactly is the humanitarian crisis that the flotilla was actually addressing? There is none. There's no one starving in Gaza...."

 

You know, whatever you may think of the respective leaderships, the Israelis or Hamas, whatever Gods you pray to or whatever direction you may pray to them in, if you can't even look at Gaza, and agree that there is suffering there that needs to be alleviated, no matter who's to blame for it, then your heart is so dead, tourists flock there to float on their backs in it.

~Jon Stewart

 

Give me a example because every military action was done in the name of Israel's security.

 

I did give you an example with the ethnic cleansing in 1948.

 

I'll quote Satenza:

 

What about when Israel invaded Egypt during the Suez Crisis in 1956?

Or South Lebanon in 1978?

Or Lebanon in 1982?

Or the other war with Egypt in 1967?

Then the Six Day War.

Or what is now called the War in Gaza only in 2008?

 

In August 2005 when the IDF left Gaza there was no Military blockade, in June 2007 Hamas overthrew the Fatah (PA) and Israel started a Military blockade against Hamas so its not against the Palestinians it is against hamas and if the Palestinians support a terrorist group then they deserve only bread and nothing more

 

Wow...I'm not sure what to say to this.

 

Whe did the IDF retracted those claims?

 

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/under-scrutiny-idf-retracts-claims-about-flotillas-al-qaeda-links/

 

The 20 Billion is being given to the Fatah (PA) where they give it out and they use most of it on the west bank that is their fault not Israels, and where are they suppose to get more money?

 

How about letting them have an economy?

 

I am sorry but you didn't prove to me that they launched tear gas before boarding

 

I guess you didn't watch the video.

 

You can hear but you can't see the protesters still fighting the IDF

 

Yeah, imagine that. Fighting someone off who is opening fire on your fellow protesters. Who'dathunk!

 

As i said in the beginning read past the first paragraph

I.H.H. of maintaining ties not only to Hamas, the militant Palestinian movement that controls Gaza but to other violent factions, including Al Qaeda.

 

Normally I never tell someone to do this, but did you even read the headline?

 

US Officials Doubt Israeli Claims About Terrorists in Gaza Flotilla

 

Moreover, Israel has ties to Hamas...you know, when they used them to overthrow the PLO?

So everyone except for Israel is wrong? Not even the US will side with Israel on this issue. .

 

Yes if someone want to be a terrorist they have to suffer the consequences

 

In 2001You have no right to overthrow their government anymore than we had the right to overthrow Iraq and Afghanistan. The Iraq War was illegal. Second, we're not overthrowing the Taliban. There's going to be a compromise whereby they are left in charge of certain areas. Mark my words. Third, we didn't go there to overthrow the Taliban, we went there because they refused to handover the al Qaeda members responsible. That was perfectly legal to do.

 

We have the right to defend our selves and Hamas has sworn to destroy Israel so yes we have the right to take down hamas. The Us when there to get al Qaeda members, we went to Gaza to get hamas members and to get back Gilad Schalit a kidnapped solider of ours

 

Wow, are you Lieberman's child? I haven't seen something this wicked stated since Pat Buchanan said that America did the blacks a favor by enslaving them and bringing them to America, where their standards of living would be better than in Africa..

 

????????????? What i said and you said are not the same thing we left them where they were and we left them in a better situation we didn't force them to leave there homes. I am sorry but get a example closer to mine

 

Second the UN says there there is no humanitarian crisis http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/136180

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7191359.stm

 

find me a source that doesn't include the BBC because the have been know to twist the truth against Israel

http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/04/bbc_lies_again.html

http://www.mererhetoric.com/2005/10/12/the-bbc-lies/

 

You know, I don't think we can get these two sides to come to any agreement. Well... except perhaps this next statement by Charles Krauthammer may be the stupidest [bleep]ing thing anyone's ever said about the Middle East ever.

 

Krauthammer (Fox News, May 31 broadcast): "What exactly is the humanitarian crisis that the flotilla was actually addressing? There is none. There's no one starving in Gaza...."

 

You know, whatever you may think of the respective leaderships, the Israelis or Hamas, whatever Gods you pray to or whatever direction you may pray to them in, if you can't even look at Gaza, and agree that there is suffering there that needs to be alleviated, no matter who's to blame for it, then your heart is so dead, tourists flock there to float on their backs in it.

 

Charles Krauthamme is telling the truth and i gave you proof the UN agrees

 

I did give you an example with the ethnic cleansing in 1948.

What about when Israel invaded Egypt during the Suez Crisis in 1956?

Or South Lebanon in 1978?

Or Lebanon in 1982?

Then the Six Day War.

Or what is now called the War in Gaza only in 2008?

 

ethnic cleansing in 1948- In 1947 5 Arab nations attacked Israel with the saying "We will drive them into the sea" so Israel did everything possible to live and win the war (winning mean living)

Suez Crisis in 1956- Egypt was constantly raided Israel from 1948-1956 this put a stop to it for some time it was a act of self defense

South Lebanon in 1978- This was a response to the PLO after a terrorist attack we attacked their base to disable them a act of self defense

Six Day War- n May 1967, Egypt closed the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping and began mobilizing its forces to attack Israel. Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq also mobilized and sent troops. In response, Israel launched a strike. Starting June 5, the Israeli air force destroyed Egypt's planes on the ground. Enabled by air superiority throughout the region, meaning they were planning to try to "We will drive them into the sea"

Gaza only in 2008- was a response to 8 years of rocket fire on our civilian to stop it over 10,000 rockets have been fired at Israel a act of self defense

 

In August 2005 when the IDF left Gaza there was no Military blockade, in June 2007 Hamas overthrew the Fatah (PA) and Israel started a Military blockade against Hamas so its not against the Palestinians it is against hamas and if the Palestinians support a terrorist group then they deserve only bread and nothing more

 

Wow...I'm not sure what to say to this.

 

So we are getting somewhere

 

When did the IDF retracted those claims?

 

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/under-scrutiny-idf-retracts-claims-about-flotillas-al-qaeda-links/

 

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177452

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/137881

 

How about letting them have an economy?

 

they are the are the one boycotting us not us boycotting them

 

I guess you didn't watch the video.

 

i did was it part of the Arabic?

 

Yeah, imagine that. Fighting someone off who is opening fire on your fellow protesters. Who'dathunk!

 

They are the ones who started the fighting with weapons we didn't stop till the ship was under control

 

Normally I never tell someone to do this, but did you even read the headline?.

 

Yes i did

 

Moreover, Israel has ties to Hamas...you know, when they used them to overthrow the PLO?

How did they?

Of course they refuse the aid. Israel's torment of the area only keeps them in power, and gives them an excuse not to govern; they don't actually have to govern and can blame Israel for everything. You can't maintain an electrical and sewer infrastructure when Israel constantly destroys them, so why rebuild it? And that's exactly what Hamas tells the people of Gaza, and they lap that [cabbage] right up. Hey, that's just like what Israel does! "We can't have a peace settlement when they keep launching rockets, so...." It's kind of how the Republicans constantly obstructing everything the Democrats want to do gives the Democrats an excuse not to govern properly; sure, it's a much more understandable excuse than Hamas's, but it's still an excuse of abdicating responsibility. Israel's government and Hamas, two peas in a pod while their respective peoples suffer. I'm still waiting for the day that Fatah rids itself of corruption and returns to power (well, all governments are corrupt, but to the point where they actually do something for their people instead of taking all of the money). Still, if the West Bank and Gaza held elections together, Fatah WOULD be in power. So how about giving the Palestinians a state and end your country's torment and occupation?

you know, when i first read that post i told to myself, well, what do you know, perhaps this guy isn't that anti-israeli after all.

Here is a post which can actually be discussed.wow.

I was about to reply but then...the usuall poisen & hate poped up right after.

 

More or less every military action since the 6-Day War.

suddenly the 1973 war was erased from the history books...oh perhaps you count it as less.

and the terror attacks through all our history , the Hizbullah attacks on our soldiers in 2000 & 2006 after we were out of Lebanon....

i know, its just slipped your mind.

 

However, even before that, I'd call the ethnic cleansing that took place in 1948 to be quite "overzealous."

again, why showing the other side (all the arab armies join hands in order to massacre the newly born state and almost succeeds) if we can put the spot light on one of the stains on Israel history.

 

and the grand finale

Oh, wait, we have evidence they launched tear gas before boarding:

...

You can hear it on the damned audio! Despite the raising of white flags, the Israeli army is still shooting. You can hear it!

it seems that when it comes to non-israeli "evidence" your judgment and reason goes down the drain.

suddnely the fact that this movie might have (i am not saying does though thats clearly the case) been edit doesn't cross your (usually) suspicious mind.

I simply forgot the first 2 commandments in your book:

- IDF evidence = LIE

- Anti-IDF evidence = UNDISPUTABLE TRUE

 

You're a lost case

suddenly the 1973 war was erased from the history books...oh perhaps you count it as less.

and the terror attacks through all our history , the Hizbullah attacks on our soldiers in 2000 & 2006 after we were out of Lebanon....

i know, its just slipped your mind.

Thanks for backing me up i wasn't even think of wars he didn't mention if we are saying all the don't forget the intifada or Operation Defensive Shield

ethnic cleansing in 1948- In 1947 5 Arab nations attacked Israel with the saying "We will drive them into the sea" so Israel did everything possible to live and win the war (winning mean living)

Suez Crisis in 1956- Egypt was constantly raided Israel from 1948-1956 this put a stop to it for some time it was a act of self defense

South Lebanon in 1978- This was a response to the PLO after a terrorist attack we attacked their base to disable them a act of self defense

Six Day War- n May 1967, Egypt closed the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping and began mobilizing its forces to attack Israel. Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq also mobilized and sent troops. In response, Israel launched a strike. Starting June 5, the Israeli air force destroyed Egypt's planes on the ground. Enabled by air superiority throughout the region, meaning they were planning to try to "We will drive them into the sea"

Gaza only in 2008- was a response to 8 years of rocket fire on our civilian to stop it over 10,000 rockets have been fired at Israel a act of self defense

Your facts are altered to suit you as you please. I don't have as much time as I would like to pull your fallacies apart since I have exams but I have enough time to pull this one section apart. First of all the Arabs initial attack of Israel was not an ethnic cleansing as there was not a defined intent to eliminate a specific race. You quote says it yourself "We will drive them into the sea" not “If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition." (Adolf Hitler). The Arabs wanted to liberate their land from a foreign occupying power, while demonstrated in Hitler's quote he had an objective to eliminate the Jews no matter where they were.

 

As for the Suez Crisis War, it had little to do with "self-defense". Under the false guise of self-defense, Israel wanted to obtain Indian Ocean access [which they did] and Britain and France wanted to take back the canal because Egypt nationalized it (which is only fair as it is in Egypt). It was a war of imperialism and opportunities, not self-defense.

 

The Southern Lebanon Conflict in 1978 was particularly selfishly handled. During the civil war [of Lebanon], the Christians were attempting to maintain order and by Israel's flushes in the South all they did was apply more terrorist pressure on Beirut, which in term in flamed tensions in the civil war and just set up the opportunity for terrorist contending with the true Lebanese government.

 

The Six Day War- To begin, you are wrong. Lebanon did not send troops which caused the later polarization of political factions of Christians and Muslims that resulted in the beginning of the civil war. Egypt had no intent to attack and Nasser wanted a victory without war, his mobilization of forces was an intimidation tactic and he was not going to attack. However, Israel took a preemptive strike and started a war that was not meant to be. Anything that happened following was Israeli provoked as Nasser would have backed down if Israel hadn't succumb to intimidation. There were also the crooked tactics used by the IDF, perhaps like the USS Liberty Incident? False reports by the IDF reporting the USS Liberty moving 12 knots faster than possible and being unmarked although it bore a large US flag on its side, was flying a flag at the time of attack and had its name written in English on the side (IDF testimony according to the Yerushalmi Report, fabricated 15years after the event, and American testimony according to the Clark Clifford Report, fabricated one month and a week after the incident).

 

The "War of Gaza" (although it wasn't really a war seeing as how Israel just kind of crushed the Palestinians) was an atrocity seeing as how they directly attacked civilians of Gaza in response to actions of a terrorist group which only 26% of them support. The IDF destroyed many buildings and much infrastructure, killed many people and kept back international aid forces to assist victims.

 

Oh and the War in 2006 where Israel advanced to the capital of Lebanon and hit even the capital building with artillery, yes that's quite defense-warranted. That was the lovely last stroke to make even the most pro-Israel Lebanese turn anti-Zionist.

 

I would just like to say, God bless Israel and its ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. They were given a land so that they may exact the plight on the innocent which they suffered as innocents.

ethnic cleansing in 1948- In 1947 5 Arab nations attacked Israel with the saying "We will drive them into the sea" so Israel did everything possible to live and win the war (winning mean living)

Suez Crisis in 1956- Egypt was constantly raided Israel from 1948-1956 this put a stop to it for some time it was a act of self defense

South Lebanon in 1978- This was a response to the PLO after a terrorist attack we attacked their base to disable them a act of self defense

Six Day War- n May 1967, Egypt closed the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping and began mobilizing its forces to attack Israel. Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq also mobilized and sent troops. In response, Israel launched a strike. Starting June 5, the Israeli air force destroyed Egypt's planes on the ground. Enabled by air superiority throughout the region, meaning they were planning to try to "We will drive them into the sea"

Gaza only in 2008- was a response to 8 years of rocket fire on our civilian to stop it over 10,000 rockets have been fired at Israel a act of self defense

Your facts are altered to suit you as you please. I don't have as much time as I would like to pull your fallacies apart since I have exams but I have enough time to pull this one section apart. First of all the Arabs initial attack of Israel was not an ethnic cleansing as there was not a defined intent to eliminate a specific race. You quote says it yourself "We will drive them into the sea" not If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition." (Adolf Hitler). The Arabs wanted to liberate their land from a foreign occupying power, while demonstrated in Hitler's quote he had an objective to eliminate the Jews no matter where they were.

 

The 5 Arab nations wanted to destroy the newly founded Jewish nation, not to liberate their land they had not right to it. What land did the Arabs have to liberate the 1947 The British divided the Palestine Mandate meaning that Israel had a full right to the land the British gave to them, not 5 Arab nations that wanted to destroy Israel not liberate land that was never theirs

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_war_start.php

 

As for the Suez Crisis War, it had little to do with "self-defense". Under the false guise of self-defense, Israel wanted to obtain Indian Ocean access [which they did] and Britain and France wanted to take back the canal because Egypt nationalized it (which is only fair as it is in Egypt). It was a war of imperialism and opportunities, not self-defense.

 

Israel suffered many terrorist attacks and raids from Egypt so Israel acted in self defense and attack Egypt to stop this raids. Britain and France wanted to take back the Suez canal you can't blame us for their actions

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sinai_backgd.php

 

The Southern Lebanon Conflict in 1978 was particularly selfishly handled. During the civil war [of Lebanon], the Christians were attempting to maintain order and by Israel's flushes in the South all they did was apply more terrorist pressure on Beirut, which in term in flamed tensions in the civil war and just set up the opportunity for terrorist contending with the true Lebanese government.

 

The same thing that happened in 1967 happened here there were terrorist attacks and raids form Lebanon so we acted in self defense and acted them to stop them

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_lebanon_1978.php

 

The Six Day War- To begin, you are wrong. Lebanon did not send troops which caused the later polarization of political factions of Christians and Muslims that resulted in the beginning of the civil war. Egypt had no intent to attack and Nasser wanted a victory without war, his mobilization of forces was an intimidation tactic and he was not going to attack. However, Israel took a preemptive strike and started a war that was not meant to be. Anything that happened following was Israeli provoked as Nasser would have backed down if Israel hadn't succumb to intimidation. There were also the crooked tactics used by the IDF, perhaps like the USS Liberty Incident? False reports by the IDF reporting the USS Liberty moving 12 knots faster than possible and being unmarked although it bore a large US flag on its side, was flying a flag at the time of attack and had its name written in English on the side (IDF testimony according to the Yerushalmi Report, fabricated 15years after the event, and American testimony according to the Clark Clifford Report, fabricated one month and a week after the incident).

 

Lebanon didn't of troops but it took part in raids against Israel. Egypt didn't have intent to attack Israel? where do you get your information? Egypt had built up it military presence on the border with Israel and threatened to destroy Israel i am sorry but check your facts for the truth. Israel attacked before Egypt did. The USS Liberty Incident was a mistake in the war Israel admitted to it and they paid full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack.

 

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sixday_backgd.php

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/67_War.html

 

The "War of Gaza" (although it wasn't really a war seeing as how Israel just kind of crushed the Palestinians) was an atrocity seeing as how they directly attacked civilians of Gaza in response to actions of a terrorist group which only 26% of them support. The IDF destroyed many buildings and much infrastructure, killed many people and kept back international aid forces to assist victims.

 

Israel killed 1166 people in cast lead 709 were terrorist. Israel attack civilian location because the terrorist were hiding behind civilians. Only 10% of Germany supported the Nazis but they were still the leaders of Germany. so did the world have the right to take them down? many German civilians died because of the Nazis even if they were innocent.

 

Oh and the War in 2006 where Israel advanced to the capital of Lebanon and hit even the capital building with artillery, yes that's quite defense-warranted. That was the lovely last stroke to make even the most pro-Israel Lebanese turn anti-Zionist.

 

Did you forget what Hezbollah did? They kidnapped our solders and then fired thousands of rockets indiscriminately and at times deliberately at civilian areas

ethnic cleansing in 1948- In 1947 5 Arab nations attacked Israel with the saying "We will drive them into the sea" so Israel did everything possible to live and win the war (winning mean living)

Suez Crisis in 1956- Egypt was constantly raided Israel from 1948-1956 this put a stop to it for some time it was a act of self defense

South Lebanon in 1978- This was a response to the PLO after a terrorist attack we attacked their base to disable them a act of self defense

Six Day War- n May 1967, Egypt closed the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli shipping and began mobilizing its forces to attack Israel. Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq also mobilized and sent troops. In response, Israel launched a strike. Starting June 5, the Israeli air force destroyed Egypt's planes on the ground. Enabled by air superiority throughout the region, meaning they were planning to try to "We will drive them into the sea"

Gaza only in 2008- was a response to 8 years of rocket fire on our civilian to stop it over 10,000 rockets have been fired at Israel a act of self defense

Your facts are altered to suit you as you please. I don't have as much time as I would like to pull your fallacies apart since I have exams but I have enough time to pull this one section apart. First of all the Arabs initial attack of Israel was not an ethnic cleansing as there was not a defined intent to eliminate a specific race. You quote says it yourself "We will drive them into the sea" not If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition." (Adolf Hitler). The Arabs wanted to liberate their land from a foreign occupying power, while demonstrated in Hitler's quote he had an objective to eliminate the Jews no matter where they were.

 

The 5 Arab nations wanted to destroy the newly founded Jewish nation, not to liberate their land they had not right to it. What land did the Arabs have to liberate the 1947 The British divided the Palestine Mandate meaning that Israel had a full right to the land the British gave to them, not 5 Arab nations that wanted to destroy Israel not liberate land that was never theirs

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_war_start.php

You're justifying something based off of colonial powers giving rights? And by the way, the Arabs lands that attacked all once controlled Palestine. The Syrian Ottoman province included everything from Palestine to Southern Turkey. It's subdivision, the Walidiya of Jerusalem, was all Palestinian, and what is now northern Israel was part of Southern Lebanon. If you want to justify things "because Britain said so", than why do you think there was an Iraq-Iran conflict? The British decided the border of the countries on a napkin! They also did promise Palestine the same land as they did Israel, which eventually led to the two state solution which ended up with the Palestinians getting screwed. The Arabs backed up a fellow brother nation.

 

As for the Suez Crisis War, it had little to do with "self-defense". Under the false guise of self-defense, Israel wanted to obtain Indian Ocean access [which they did] and Britain and France wanted to take back the canal because Egypt nationalized it (which is only fair as it is in Egypt). It was a war of imperialism and opportunities, not self-defense.

 

Israel suffered many terrorist attacks and raids from Egypt so Israel acted in self defense and attack Egypt to stop this raids. Britain and France wanted to take back the Suez canal you can't blame us for their actions

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sinai_backgd.php

So Israel just decided to pick up the spoils along the way? No. Justification is easy. Truth is hard to admit.

 

The Southern Lebanon Conflict in 1978 was particularly selfishly handled. During the civil war [of Lebanon], the Christians were attempting to maintain order and by Israel's flushes in the South all they did was apply more terrorist pressure on Beirut, which in term in flamed tensions in the civil war and just set up the opportunity for terrorist contending with the true Lebanese government.

 

The same thing that happened in 1967 happened here there were terrorist attacks and raids form Lebanon so we acted in self defense and acted them to stop them

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_lebanon_1978.php

I didn't say they weren't in self-defense I was saying Israel handled it very selfishly and set up a screwing for the Christians with no regard for their actions.

 

The Six Day War- To begin, you are wrong. Lebanon did not send troops which caused the later polarization of political factions of Christians and Muslims that resulted in the beginning of the civil war. Egypt had no intent to attack and Nasser wanted a victory without war, his mobilization of forces was an intimidation tactic and he was not going to attack. However, Israel took a preemptive strike and started a war that was not meant to be. Anything that happened following was Israeli provoked as Nasser would have backed down if Israel hadn't succumb to intimidation. There were also the crooked tactics used by the IDF, perhaps like the USS Liberty Incident? False reports by the IDF reporting the USS Liberty moving 12 knots faster than possible and being unmarked although it bore a large US flag on its side, was flying a flag at the time of attack and had its name written in English on the side (IDF testimony according to the Yerushalmi Report, fabricated 15years after the event, and American testimony according to the Clark Clifford Report, fabricated one month and a week after the incident).

 

Lebanon didn't of troops but it took part in raids against Israel. Egypt didn't have intent to attack Israel? where do you get your information? Egypt had built up it military presence on the border with Israel and threatened to destroy Israel i am sorry but check your facts for the truth. Israel attacked before Egypt did. The USS Liberty Incident was a mistake in the war Israel admitted to it and they paid full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack.

 

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sixday_backgd.php

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/67_War.html

Lebanon did not raid, it was the Palestinian terror groups in Lebanon, very distinct, very offensive when you group them together, as do most Western generalists. Nasser's strategy was to scare the Israelis into submission not attack.

 

The "War of Gaza" (although it wasn't really a war seeing as how Israel just kind of crushed the Palestinians) was an atrocity seeing as how they directly attacked civilians of Gaza in response to actions of a terrorist group which only 26% of them support. The IDF destroyed many buildings and much infrastructure, killed many people and kept back international aid forces to assist victims.

 

Israel killed 1166 people in cast lead 709 were terrorist. Israel attack civilian location because the terrorist were hiding behind civilians. Only 10% of Germany supported the Nazis but they were still the leaders of Germany. so did the world have the right to take them down? many German civilians died because of the Nazis even if they were innocent.

Here's the difference from when the Allies were fighting Hitler. They aimed to attack the Nazis and not just the random and innocent.

 

Oh and the War in 2006 where Israel advanced to the capital of Lebanon and hit even the capital building with artillery, yes that's quite defense-warranted. That was the lovely last stroke to make even the most pro-Israel Lebanese turn anti-Zionist.

 

Did you forget what Hezbollah did? They kidnapped our solders and then fired thousands of rockets indiscriminately and at times deliberately at civilian areas

Ok, just because Hezbollah kidnapped your soldiers, again, doesn't give Israel the right to attack the innocent. Israel hit even the Christians, anti-Hezbollah, when they advanced indiscriminately.

You're justifying something based off of colonial powers giving rights? And by the way, the Arabs lands that attacked all once controlled Palestine. The Syrian Ottoman province included everything from Palestine to Southern Turkey. It's subdivision, the Walidiya of Jerusalem, was all Palestinian, and what is now northern Israel was part of Southern Lebanon. If you want to justify things "because Britain said so", than why do you think there was an Iraq-Iran conflict? The British decided the border of the countries on a napkin! They also did promise Palestine the same land as they did Israel, which eventually led to the two state solution which ended up with the Palestinians getting screwed. The Arabs backed up a fellow brother nation.

 

The ottoman empire once controlled of of Israel, not Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon or Saudi Arabia. The Jewish nation once controlled Israel the Jewish still exist and the ottoman empire doesn't so we have the right to the land not a empire that doesn't still exist

 

So Israel just decided to pick up the spoils along the way? No. Justification is easy. Truth is hard to admit.

 

What spoils of war did Israel keep it gave everything back to Egypt

 

I didn't say they weren't in self-defense I was saying Israel handled it very selfishly and set up a screwing for the Christians with no regard for their actions.

 

How did the Christians suffer if they were fighting with terrorist its not Israel fault

 

Lebanon did not raid, it was the Palestinian terror groups in Lebanon, very distinct, very offensive when you group them together, as do most Western generalists. Nasser's strategy was to scare the Israelis into submission not attack.

 

Lebanon is responsible for harboring terrorist in it country. Nasser's plan was to destroy Israel it didn't work because we attacked first

 

The "War of Gaza" (although it wasn't really a war seeing as how Israel just kind of crushed the Palestinians) was an atrocity seeing as how they directly attacked civilians of Gaza in response to actions of a terrorist group which only 26% of them support. The IDF destroyed many buildings and much infrastructure, killed many people and kept back international aid forces to assist victims.

 

Israel killed 1166 people in cast lead 709 were terrorist. Israel attack civilian location because the terrorist were hiding behind civilians. Only 10% of Germany supported the Nazis but they were still the leaders of Germany. so did the world have the right to take them down? many German civilians died because of the Nazis even if they were innocent.

Here's the difference from when the Allies were fighting Hitler. They aimed to attack the Nazis and not just the random and innocent.

 

Israel doesn't killed civilian on purpose but when hamas hides behind civilian it doesn't leaves Israel much of a chose. In Iraq 105408 civilians have been killed and 19,000 terrorist that means for ever terrorist dead The us killed 5.54 civilians, For every civilian killed 1.5 terrorist were killed so us kills way more inconcent then us so you can't say we kill the random and innocent

 

Oh and the War in 2006 where Israel advanced to the capital of Lebanon and hit even the capital building with artillery, yes that's quite defense-warranted. That was the lovely last stroke to make even the most pro-Israel Lebanese turn anti-Zionist.

 

Did you forget what Hezbollah did? They kidnapped our solders and then fired thousands of rockets indiscriminately and at times deliberately at civilian areas

 

Ok, just because Hezbollah kidnapped your soldiers, again, doesn't give Israel the right to attack the innocent. Israel hit even the Christians, anti-Hezbollah, when they advanced indiscriminately.

 

As i said before when a terrorist hides behind a civilians you can't blame us for them dieing

You're justifying something based off of colonial powers giving rights? And by the way, the Arabs lands that attacked all once controlled Palestine. The Syrian Ottoman province included everything from Palestine to Southern Turkey. It's subdivision, the Walidiya of Jerusalem, was all Palestinian, and what is now northern Israel was part of Southern Lebanon. If you want to justify things "because Britain said so", than why do you think there was an Iraq-Iran conflict? The British decided the border of the countries on a napkin! They also did promise Palestine the same land as they did Israel, which eventually led to the two state solution which ended up with the Palestinians getting screwed. The Arabs backed up a fellow brother nation.

 

The ottoman empire once controlled of of Israel, not Egypt or Jordan or Syria or Lebanon or Saudi Arabia. The Jewish nation once controlled Israel the Jewish still exist and the ottoman empire doesn't so we have the right to the land not a empire that doesn't still exist

I don't really understand what you're trying to say, the Ottoman Empire did control Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon which they were referred to by those names and all but Jordan existed before their Ottoman imperial conquests. And the Palestinians controlled their land the last time there was a country of Israel anyway, Gaza has always been Palestinian even under the Kingdom of David.

 

So Israel just decided to pick up the spoils along the way? No. Justification is easy. Truth is hard to admit.

 

What spoils of war did Israel keep it gave everything back to Egypt

Years later. Israel held onto the Sinai and Gaza for a long time, as well as holding onto Southern Lebanon and they still won't relinquish Golan Heights.

 

Lebanon did not raid, it was the Palestinian terror groups in Lebanon, very distinct, very offensive when you group them together, as do most Western generalists. Nasser's strategy was to scare the Israelis into submission not attack.

 

Lebanon is responsible for harboring terrorist in it country. Nasser's plan was to destroy Israel it didn't work because we attacked first

Lebanon is not responsible for harboring them, they've been trying to eliminate them but have been unable especially since Syria and Israel like to burst through their borders every decade to intervene. And Nasser's plan was not to destroy Israel, it was to get them to submit without war out of fear by employing the "Big Stick" tactic. Go read the Memoirs of Nasser.

 

Israel killed 1166 people in cast lead 709 were terrorist. Israel attack civilian location because the terrorist were hiding behind civilians. Only 10% of Germany supported the Nazis but they were still the leaders of Germany. so did the world have the right to take them down? many German civilians died because of the Nazis even if they were innocent.

Here's the difference from when the Allies were fighting Hitler. They aimed to attack the Nazis and not just the random and innocent.

 

Israel doesn't killed civilian on purpose but when hamas hides behind civilian it doesn't leaves Israel much of a chose. In Iraq 105408 civilians have been killed and 19,000 terrorist that means for ever terrorist dead The us killed 5.54 civilians, For every civilian killed 1.5 terrorist were killed so us kills way more inconcent then us so you can't say we kill the random and innocent

Just because you have a statistical number that shows Israel kills less Palestinians than the US kills Iraqis [which is disputable as who does the IDF perceive as terrorists when they board and attack a humanitarian aid vessel] doesn't mean Israel is not guilty of killing the innocent.

Oh and the War in 2006 where Israel advanced to the capital of Lebanon and hit even the capital building with artillery, yes that's quite defense-warranted. That was the lovely last stroke to make even the most pro-Israel Lebanese turn anti-Zionist.

 

Did you forget what Hezbollah did? They kidnapped our solders and then fired thousands of rockets indiscriminately and at times deliberately at civilian areas

 

Ok, just because Hezbollah kidnapped your soldiers, again, doesn't give Israel the right to attack the innocent. Israel hit even the Christians, anti-Hezbollah, when they advanced indiscriminately.

 

As i said before when a terrorist hides behind a civilians you can't blame us for them dieing

Ok, okay even though the country is based off an ancient tribe which was suppose to follow the virtue of YHWH and YHWH specifically does not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah [immediately] because Abraham was going to find 10 innocent people [out of an entire city of evil people who try to rape His messangers]. Now if the religion Israel is based off of isn't good enough for you, it is in violation of the Geneva Convention as conducting an aggressive military operation somewhere deemed of military significance is unjustifiable if it results in invariably killing the innocent.