israeli soldiers kill 9 in international waters

[SeanyTheSailor]

I've skimmed over what has been posted and it looks like what I would argue with has already been pretty well argued, and in the way I probably would have. So I'll just address the pictures above.

 

I do not see a single thing that i would consider a real weapon if they were bringing it in. While yes on the ship it could have been a weapon to attack soldiers I'm not sure which this (article?) is trying to claim it is. The bottom right looks to be a tangle of rods and pipes. The only thing I would POSSIBLY consider suspicious in the bottom left is the rifle scope, but its not inconceivable to imagine it being used as "binoculars". The saw... OH NO! THEY HAVE MAINTENANCE TOOLS ON AS SHIP! The bulletproof vests, look at them they have the Red Cresent on them, which unles I've been misinformed is pretty much the Islamic version of the Red Cross... not to mention innocents are supposedly always dying from gunfire/bombs. How is someone seriously going to attack you with a bulletproof vest... Put it around you? No. Hit you with it. It'd probably hurt more to just straight up punch the guy.

 

So if they are talking about weapons being brought in to Israel.... give me a break.

[Matok]

I didn't say that security wasn't important for Israel, my point was there must be a way to increase supplies into Gaza while at the same time maintaining Israel's security. Both are needed in the long run. I know it isn't simple but there must be a way found that is acceptable to both parties.

well, actually they were talking about it in the israeli news - examining the possibility of increasing the supplies through a friendly country like Italy.

Now i hear that they are speaking about the possibility of establishing some sort of procedure which will allow ships to get to Gaza after an Israeli security check.

I just hope Netanyahu will be capable of making the right decision here.

Its time to lower our heads.its time to remember that our problem is not the Palestinian people,its the Hamas.

We need something to break the bad momentum here, after Dubai & the Marmara incidents we need to remind the world who we realy are.

[db300]

Then why are so many things banned from Gaza that have nothing to do with security?

 

Don't expect a rational answer to this question. For example, why is/are chocolate, dried fruit, and seeds/nuts not allowed? I believe noodles were even banned until sometime last year.

[fakeitormakeit2]

Then why are so many things banned from Gaza that have nothing to do with security?

 

Don't expect a rational answer to this question. For example, why is/are chocolate, dried fruit, and seeds/nuts not allowed? I believe noodles were even banned until sometime last year.

Because the IDF is getting so paranoid they think extremist groups will sneak explosive compounds in possibly hollow items and the like.

[SeanyTheSailor]

Then why are so many things banned from Gaza that have nothing to do with security?

 

Don't expect a rational answer to this question. For example, why is/are chocolate, dried fruit, and seeds/nuts not allowed? I believe noodles were even banned until sometime last year.

Because the IDF is getting so paranoid they think extremist groups will sneak explosive compounds in possibly hollow items and the like.

TBH its not the worst thing they've ever though of.

[qeltar]

Then why are so many things banned from Gaza that have nothing to do with security?

 

Don't expect a rational answer to this question. For example, why is/are chocolate, dried fruit, and seeds/nuts not allowed? I believe noodles were even banned until sometime last year.

Don't worry -- after listening to the Israelis and Israeli apologists argue that it was "obligatory" to attack these ships because of "security", or compare a pre-inspected ship 40 miles off the coast flying a NATO member country's flag to an unidentified aircraft 10 miles from the US capitol, I have very low expectations when it comes to rational answers from that crowd.

[Nero]

Derp de derp my name is Qeltar and I like to generalize.

[Romy]

Unlike Qeltar's post, this IS about security.

Then why are so many things banned from Gaza that have nothing to do with security?

 

With that I agree. Pure stupidity.

 

As a person who cares about politics, I tried to lead to re-evaluation of the list, and hopefully at some point it will happen.

 

 

However, I still maintain the blockade is a securiy necessity, and is required. It IS about security.

 

Israel is not trying to punish anyone, and despite the probably very disrespecting comments I'll get for saying this: Israel is after peace.

No, Israel *used* to be after peace. Now it is after "security", thanks to people like you. The two are not the same.

Israel is *about* security? What does that mean? That it's goal is it's security?

 

Either way, security is a very important field in Israel. Important enough to require searches over any ship that reaches Gaza.

 

And yes, anyone who is genuinely interested in peace with Israel, will definitely get it. Even if some of you don't trust the current government's intentions, heck even if it isn't after peace (which I disagree with, but meh), it couldn't let itself be shown as a government who does not seek peace, and will go as far as making peace, even if it doesn't want to.

 

Secutiy is a priority for any country. In Israel, it's 10 times as important, if not more. The blockade is a necessity.

Blockading weapons, maybe. The rest? Not even close to a necessity.

 

Attacking those ships was likewise not necessary for security reasons. This much has been proven beyond any reasonable counterargument. It contained no weapons of any significance, and was miles off shore.

 

Oh, I'm tired of this sentence. A search was obligatory. Israel cannot afford any risks when it comes to that. No matter what, those ships should've been searched, period.

[qeltar]

Unlike Qeltar's post, this IS about security.

Then why are so many things banned from Gaza that have nothing to do with security?

 

With that I agree. Pure stupidity.

It's stupidity in that it doesn't work, but it's not by accident. It's being done deliberately.

 

However, I still maintain the blockade is a securiy necessity, and is required. It IS about security.

You "maintain" lots of things. Unfortunately, nearly all of them are self-serving, or factually incorrect parroted propaganda.

 

Banning chocolate and guitars is not about security. It is about punishment.

 

Israel's policy was summed up by Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, earlier this year. 'The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,' he said. The hunger pangs are supposed to encourage the Palestinians to force Hamas to change its attitude towards Israel or force Hamas out of government.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/apr/16/israel

 

And that's precisely what they do. They let in enough aid so that what they are doing doesn't lead to an outright humanitarian disaster that they can't defend, but they are punishing them as much as possible.

 

Security my ass.

 

No, Israel *used* to be after peace. Now it is after "security", thanks to people like you. The two are not the same.

Israel is *about* security? What does that mean? That it's goal is it's security?

It means that you put yourselves first and only care about peace if it can be obtained on your own terms -- which means it will never happen at all.

 

It means you consider 9 civilian lives so unimportant that you rationalize attacking ships when it was completely unnecessary.

 

And yes, anyone who is genuinely interested in peace with Israel, will definitely get it.

As long as they do it on Israel's terms.

 

And they say Israel can have peace on their terms.

 

And that's why there is no peace -- because both groups are led by selfish, self-destructive, egotistical morons who care only about knocking the other guy down and complaining about how they have been wronged, than they do about moving past the idiocy and working towards peace.

 

Even if some of you don't trust the current government's intentions, heck even if it isn't after peace (which I disagree with, but meh), it couldn't let itself be shown as a government who does not seek peace, and will go as far as making peace, even if it doesn't want to.

This is laughably silly. Everything Netanyahu has done shows he couldn't care less about peace.

 

Attacking those ships was likewise not necessary for security reasons. This much has been proven beyond any reasonable counterargument. It contained no weapons of any significance, and was miles off shore.

Oh, I'm tired of this sentence.

Too bad. It's the truth.

 

They had other options, they did not have to storm those ships. You can deny this FACT as often as you want, but it will not go away.

 

A search was obligatory.

False, as a simple matter of fact. Other options were available.

 

They attacked the ships not because it was necessary, but because they wanted to. Because that's what Israel has become these days, unfortunately, thanks to its right-wing leaders and credulous supporters who will go along with any idiotic, immoral or even outright evil act if some government hack stands up and screams "Security! Security!"

 

Exactly the same as happens in my country these days. And exactly the same reason why we too are no longer seen as the good guys -- because lately, much of the time, we unfortunately aren't. Neither are you.

 

You're a young person. Some day you'll get older and realize that blind faith in your government -- ANY government -- is a very naive position, and an extremely bad idea.

[magekillr]

Some day you'll get older and realize that blind faith in your government -- ANY government -- is a very naive position, and an extremely bad idea.

 

This sentence makes me happy :)

 

It IS about security.

 

Everything Israel does is about security; it's never about peace. This isn't the first time that they've killed American citizens in international waters, either. Anyone heard of the USS Liberty? It's always an accident; it's always about defense; it's always about security.

 

Guess what? Obama claims that our drone strikes are about security. That may be. I don't give a damn. They're killing innocent people in the region, creating more terrorists than they're destroying, and doing the opposite of their intended effect. It's called blowback, romy, and everything that you do is not contained in a vacuum. You claim it's about security. Fair enough; I disagree with that, but that's your position to take. I claim that even if you believe it's making you more secure, that it's doing the opposite. You just gave Hamas the greatest gift that they could never ever get by themselves. Hamas doesn't give a damn about their people's security anymore than Israel's hawkish government. They both just want power and regional control. Can you stop thinking and caring about your stupid government's propaganda claims and for once care about your own countrymen and the people in Gaza? You're inadvertently creating more terrorists, and creating a humanitarian crisis in the process, on a land that's been illegally occupied for over 40 years.

 

I know the propaganda machine your country is sending out to try and block any other information, just as mine has been doing on the MSM. Look around it, and question their motives. Country's are almost always about their own self-interest, never the interest of another people. The one exception is Israel, and the Palestinians (who don't even have a state...). Your government's are only interested in land, power, and making the blaring noise machines so loud that you can't see anything else; unfortunately for the Palestinians in Gaza, the only news they get is from Hamas leaflets (the blockade blocks newspapers). With the internet, there is no excuse for blind faith in your government like this. Just look at rocco's post, and you'll understand why I don't believe a single word the IDF says, ever.

[Romy]

Unlike Qeltar's post, this IS about security.

Then why are so many things banned from Gaza that have nothing to do with security?

 

With that I agree. Pure stupidity.

It's stupidity in that it doesn't work, but it's not by accident. It's being done deliberately.

 

It was done during Olmert's term. If a serious re-evaluation began today, that could change.

 

However, I still maintain the blockade is a securiy necessity, and is required. It IS about security.

You "maintain" lots of things. Unfortunately, nearly all of them are self-serving, or factually incorrect parroted propaganda.

 

So what, you now claim the bloackade isn't at all about security?

 

No, Israel *used* to be after peace. Now it is after "security", thanks to people like you. The two are not the same.

Israel is *about* security? What does that mean? That it's goal is it's security?

It means that you put yourselves first and only care about peace if it can be obtained on your own terms -- which means it will never happen at all.

 

It means you consider 9 civilian lives so unimportant that you rationalize attacking ships when it was completely unnecessary.

 

And yes, anyone who is genuinely interested in peace with Israel, will definitely get it.

As long as they do it on Israel's terms.

 

And they say Israel can have peace on their terms.

 

And that's why there is no peace -- because both groups are led by selfish, self-destructive, egotistical morons who care only about knocking the other guy down and complaining about how they have been wronged, than they do about moving past the idiocy and working towards peace.

 

Yes, Israel has terms. What do you want, a "let's supply all their wishes so we could get a lousy chance at negotiation" approach?

 

Even if some of you don't trust the current government's intentions, heck even if it isn't after peace (which I disagree with, but meh), it couldn't let itself be shown as a government who does not seek peace, and will go as far as making peace, even if it doesn't want to.

This is laughably silly. Everything Netanyahu has done shows he couldn't care less about peace.

 

And what did Netanyahu do? Disagree to stop building in Jerusalem? That's Israel's capital city, building there is as legitimate as building in Tel-Aviv, if not more.

 

The only thing I disagree with, is his not stopping the illegal settlements. I cannot justify it, and largely disagree with it. But I can understand where he's coming from, many of the people who voted for him don't want to stop the illegal settlements. And [bleep], that annoys the hell out of me.

 

But Netanyahu will make peace with anyone genuinely interested. You can count on that.

 

Attacking those ships was likewise not necessary for security reasons. This much has been proven beyond any reasonable counterargument. It contained no weapons of any significance, and was miles off shore.

Oh, I'm tired of this sentence.

Too bad. It's the truth.

 

They had other options, they did not have to storm those ships. You can deny this FACT as often as you want, but it will not go away.

 

Stop spinning things around. I didn't say an attack was obligatory, I said a search was obligatory.

 

A search was obligatory.

False, as a simple matter of fact. Other options were available.

 

They attacked the ships not because it was necessary, but because they wanted to. Because that's what Israel has become these days, unfortunately, thanks to its right-wing leaders and credulous supporters who will go along with any idiotic, immoral or even outright evil act if some government hack stands up and screams "Security! Security!"

 

Exactly the same as happens in my country these days. And exactly the same reason why we too are no longer seen as the good guys -- because lately, much of the time, we unfortunately aren't. Neither are you.

 

Same as above. Stop spinning things around.

 

You're a young person. Some day you'll get older and realize that blind faith in your government -- ANY government -- is a very naive position, and an extremely bad idea.

Lol, I'm a very judgemental person, that does not agree to everything presented to me, and can criticize when I feel it's correct.

[fakeitormakeit2]

Unlike Qeltar's post, this IS about security.

Then why are so many things banned from Gaza that have nothing to do with security?

 

With that I agree. Pure stupidity.

It's stupidity in that it doesn't work, but it's not by accident. It's being done deliberately.

 

It was done during Olmert's term. If a serious re-evaluation began today, that could change.

 

However, I still maintain the blockade is a securiy necessity, and is required. It IS about security.

You "maintain" lots of things. Unfortunately, nearly all of them are self-serving, or factually incorrect parroted propaganda.

 

So what, you now claim the bloackade isn't at all about security?

 

No, Israel *used* to be after peace. Now it is after "security", thanks to people like you. The two are not the same.

Israel is *about* security? What does that mean? That it's goal is it's security?

It means that you put yourselves first and only care about peace if it can be obtained on your own terms -- which means it will never happen at all.

 

It means you consider 9 civilian lives so unimportant that you rationalize attacking ships when it was completely unnecessary.

 

And yes, anyone who is genuinely interested in peace with Israel, will definitely get it.

As long as they do it on Israel's terms.

 

And they say Israel can have peace on their terms.

 

And that's why there is no peace -- because both groups are led by selfish, self-destructive, egotistical morons who care only about knocking the other guy down and complaining about how they have been wronged, than they do about moving past the idiocy and working towards peace.

 

Yes, Israel has terms. What do you want, a "let's supply all their wishes so we could get a lousy chance at negotiation" approach?

God help you, you have such double standards. In another thread you condemned coming to the table with conditions when it pertained to Hamas and you support it now for Israel? I do not support Hamas or prec-conditioned terms but you madame are a hypocrite. And no, the blockade isn't all about security. It's also about breaking down an unruly conquered people, you have to break their spirits somehow.

 

Attacking those ships was likewise not necessary for security reasons. This much has been proven beyond any reasonable counterargument. It contained no weapons of any significance, and was miles off shore.

Oh, I'm tired of this sentence.

Too bad. It's the truth.

 

They had other options, they did not have to storm those ships. You can deny this FACT as often as you want, but it will not go away.

 

Stop spinning things around. I didn't say an attack was obligatory, I said a search was obligatory.

Search was illegal as proven in this thread on terms Israel agreed to as it was outside the "contiguous zone" outside Israel's territorial sea which they could legally search at will with valid suspicion.

 

And your building in Jerusalem comment annoys me greatly, as half of it is conquered land. I hope any new buildings that are built are swallow in an earthquake and causes great financial destruction [and the death of none].

 

 

I apologize in advance if this post is difficult to read, I'm bad with quotes.

[Romy]

God help you, you have such double standards. In another thread you condemned coming to the table with conditions when it pertained to Hamas and you support it now for Israel? I do not support Hamas or prec-conditioned terms but you madame are a hypocrite. And no, the blockade isn't all about security. It's also about breaking down an unruly conquered people, you have to break their spirits somehow.

 

I condmned terms to discussion, not terms within discussion. There's a very big difference here. It's not even very big, it's huge and unbelievably not the same.

 

Search was illegal as proven in this thread on terms Israel agreed to as it was outside the "contiguous zone" outside Israel's territorial sea which they could legally search at will with valid suspicion.

 

The illegality is questioned.

[SeanyTheSailor]

God help you, you have such double standards. In another thread you condemned coming to the table with conditions when it pertained to Hamas and you support it now for Israel? I do not support Hamas or prec-conditioned terms but you madame are a hypocrite. And no, the blockade isn't all about security. It's also about breaking down an unruly conquered people, you have to break their spirits somehow.

 

I condmned terms to discussion, not terms within discussion. There's a very big difference here. It's not even very big, it's huge and unbelieveably not the same.

 

Search was illegal as proven in this thread on terms Israel agreed to as it was outside the "contiguous zone" outside Israel's territorial sea which they could legally search at will with valid suspicion.

 

The illegality is questioned.

No romy we went that road with illegality. I asked people to look it up. 24 miles is the limit and from what I heard it was at least 40.

[Romy]

God help you, you have such double standards. In another thread you condemned coming to the table with conditions when it pertained to Hamas and you support it now for Israel? I do not support Hamas or prec-conditioned terms but you madame are a hypocrite. And no, the blockade isn't all about security. It's also about breaking down an unruly conquered people, you have to break their spirits somehow.

 

I condmned terms to discussion, not terms within discussion. There's a very big difference here. It's not even very big, it's huge and unbelieveably not the same.

 

Search was illegal as proven in this thread on terms Israel agreed to as it was outside the "contiguous zone" outside Israel's territorial sea which they could legally search at will with valid suspicion.

 

The illegality is questioned.

No romy we went that road with illegality. I asked people to look it up. 24 miles is the limit and from what I heard it was at least 40.

 

The mere fact that the Marmara clearly ignored Israel's intructions not to enter it's territorial waters, and it's clear intention to do so, is what puts the case to question.

[Romy]

A little kid is walking down the sidewalk in the general direction of your house.

You lean out your window and say, "Hey kid, you stay the hell off my lawn!"

The kid indignantyl replies, "Screw you! I'll go on your lawn if I want to."

Then you walk out of the house and knock the kid out with one punch and justify it because he could have been carrying dangerous weed killers to poison your grass.

 

I'm afraid that analogy doesn't work here, because self-defence CAN be claimed, because Israel did not know what was on the ship, and did know where it was heading.

[SeanyTheSailor]

The boat was approaching territorial waters... not in them. Thats like someone walking towards your house and you run up and clock them before they even get on the sidewalk.

[Romy]

The boat was approaching territorial waters... not in them. Thats like someone walking towards your house and you run up and clock them before they even get on the sidewalk.

 

Same as the post above. The analogy does not work here, because Israel can claim for self defence, for knowing where it was heading, and not knowing what it carries.

 

 

 

It's a tricky situation, and I'm not saying it's definitely legal. But neither that it's definitely illegal.

[Romy]

Turkey permitted the Marmara to fly under its flag. Turkey knew that the IHH (Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation) had organized the Flotilla, and supports the genocidal terrorist organization Hamas, several Jihadist organizations in Bosnia, Syria, Iraq, Libya, and elsewhere, and has ties with Al Qaeda.

[fakeitormakeit2]

Turkey permitted the Marmara to fly under its flag. Turkey knew that the IHH (Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation) had organized the Flotilla, and supports the genocidal terrorist organization Hamas, several Jihadist organizations in Bosnia, Syria, Iraq, Libya, and elsewhere, and has ties with Al Qaeda.

It is a Turkish organization which was not in the jurisdiction of Israeli waters. I do not disagree that Hamas is quite a bad organization but if you deem it a genocidal organization, than as is the IDF because although they do not directly state their desire, they wish to eradicate Palestinians [or any Arab and non-Arab] who oppose their takeover of their land.

[qeltar]

The illegality is only questioned by you, after somebody two or three pages ago went through international law and showed that it was illegal for Israel to search the ship.

Yes, but it doesn't matter. Because she actually believes the spoon-fed tripe from her government that Israel's security is so important that international law doesn't matter. Even to the point of killing people when it wasn't necessary -- the mere "possibility" that there "might" have been "something" bad on the ships justifies 9 people dying and dozens being wounded, to these right-wing types.

 

I could point out that if Israel can justify breaking international law because of "security concerns", so could her enemies, like Iran. In fact, I have.

 

I could point out that they didn't need to search the ship, they could have waited for it to dock and then inspected the cargo. In fact, I have.

 

And so on. It doesn't matter, because regardless of what you say to romy, she will just repeat the same IDF/Likud talking points. No amount of logical arguments, legal analysis, or contradictory evidence will have any effect, because she's simply not listening. It's just the same false claims and propaganda repeated page after page.

 

Might as well try talking to an IDF tank.

 

You cannot reason with unreasonable people, and I for one and done trying, at least until she stops parroting nonsense and makes some actual points. She wants to believe what she needs to believe, so let her keep repeating whoppers like claiming that they attacked these ships out of "self-defence". It's not like anyone with a clue is going to buy it.

[The_Gabe]

The illegality is only questioned by you, after somebody two or three pages ago went through international law and showed that it was illegal for Israel to search the ship.

Yes, but it doesn't matter. Because she actually believes the spoon-fed tripe from her government that Israel's security is so important that international law doesn't matter. Even to the point of killing people when it wasn't necessary -- the mere "possibility" that there "might" have been "something" bad on the ships justifies 9 people dying and dozens being wounded, to these right-wing types.

 

I could point out that if Israel can justify breaking international law because of "security concerns", so could her enemies, like Iran. In fact, I have.

 

I could point out that they didn't need to search the ship, they could have waited for it to dock and then inspected the cargo. In fact, I have.

 

And so on. It doesn't matter, because regardless of what you say to romy, she will just repeat the same IDF/Likud talking points. No amount of logical arguments, legal analysis, or contradictory evidence will have any effect, because she's simply not listening. It's just the same false claims and propaganda repeated page after page.

 

Might as well try talking to an IDF tank.

 

You cannot reason with unreasonable people, and I for one and done trying, at least until she stops parroting nonsense and makes some actual points. She wants to believe what she needs to believe, so let her keep repeating whoppers like claiming that they attacked these ships out of "self-defence". It's not like anyone with a clue is going to buy it.

 

I completely agree with Rony's point. Those 9 lives were in fact, justified. It was a misfortune the incident happened, but it was not Israel's fault. In fact, you're a pretty big hypocrite, because whatever Rony says to you, you repeat the same answers and arguments. Guess what? Many terrorists don't have logic. Logic cannot solve everything. Security is more important for Israel than you could imagine.

 

Also about your government comment, guess what? We're all human. We make mistakes, and we dissagree. That does not make people naive. It makes you single, and simple minded.

[qeltar]

I completely agree with Rony's point.

And you're also an Israeli, and also a teenager with very little life experience. So, no big surprise there.

 

Those 9 lives were in fact, justified. It was a misfortune the incident happened, but it was not Israel's fault.

Israel attacks ships flying a NATO ally flag in international waters. Israeli commandos kill 9 people. But you claim this was "not Israel's fault".

 

That's a perfect example of reflexively defending your country without any reasonable justification.

 

If you want to be honest, then just say "I don't care about them dying because I think they were bad people". Because that's basically what your position is anyway.

 

In fact, you're a pretty big hypocrite, because whatever Rony says to you, you repeat the same answers and arguments.

The difference is that I *have* arguments. I have outlined alternatives to what was done. I have explained why the claim of imminent threat was bogus. I and others have explained why international laws in international waters matter. I have described why the blockade is not simply about security.

 

She has no arguments. She just repeats talking points spoonfed to her by her government.

 

You don't even bother with that. You just say "Well I'm Israeli and I think what they did was fine."

 

Many terrorists don't have logic.

It seems plenty of non-terrorists are equally lacking in that regard, given that you just tried to claim that Israel is not at fault for 9 people dying in an incident that was caused by an Israeli assault that was entirely avoidable.

 

Security is more important for Israel than you could imagine.

Yes, apparently so important that you are willing to lower yourself to the immoral levels of your enemies, and destroy your country to try to get it.

 

We're all human. We make mistakes, and we dissagree.

The difference is that people like you won't even admit that Israel was wrong to do what it did. You don't respect anything except your own self-interest.

 

As for disagreement, when it comes to opinion, that's great. When it comes to massive denial of simple facts, it isn't. Facts are not subject to opinion, and the facts are that 9 people are dead because Israel chose to attack a ship in international waters, deliberately *not* choosing non-violent alternatives. Deal with it.

[magekillr]

Turkey permitted the Marmara to fly under its flag. Turkey knew that the IHH (Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation) had organized the Flotilla, and supports the genocidal terrorist organization Hamas, several Jihadist organizations in Bosnia, Syria, Iraq, Libya, and elsewhere, and has ties with Al Qaeda.

 

Ties to Al Qaeda?

 

Nice try at repeating what the IDF has said, but you might want to try their refined line after it was put under scrutiny:

 

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/under-scrutiny-idf-retracts-claims-about-flotillas-al-qaeda-links/

 

Max is another one of those self-hating Jews, you see.

 

Not content to believe that night vision goggles signal membership in Al Qaeda, Israel-based freelance reporter Lia Tarachansky and I called the IDF press office to ask for more conclusive evidence. Tarachansky reached the IDF’s Israel desk, interviewing a spokesperson in Hebrew; I spoke with the North America desk, using English. We both received the same reply from Army spokespeople: “We don’t have any evidence. The press release was based on information from the [israeli] National Security Council.” (The Israeli National Security Council is Netanyahu’s kitchen cabinet of advisors).

 

Today, the Israeli Army’s press office changed the headline of its press release (see below), basically retracting its claim about the flotilla’s Al Qaeda links. The new headline reads: “Attackers of the IDF Soldiers Found Without Identification Papers” (the top of the browser screen still contains the original headline about Al Qaeda). The more Israel’s claims about the flotilla’s terrorist links are challenged, the more they fall apart.

 

Second, now news is flowing in that this wasn't "bungled" whatsoever, and was in fact detailed in advance:

 

The sea encounter that will occur at the end of the weekend is already planned detail by detail. From the moment that the ships will pass the “red line” on their way to Gaza, the fighters of Unit 13 will take control and transfer 800 passengers from their boats back to where they came from. And special arrest units were set up.

 

From the body of article: This operation was approved by Prime Minister Netanyahu and Defense Minister Barak and will be led by the commander of the Navy, Lieutenant Colonel Eliezer Maron, who is nicknamed “Cheney.” If the people aboard the boats will not agree to turn around, the operation will transfer to the stage of force. “We are afraid that there will be a terror attack by the boats,” said a high ranking officer. “If terrorists have gotten on the boats or if there is an intention to use hot weapons against our forces, we will use full seriousness and caution. We want to avoid using force but as soon as there will be danger to the life of our forces we will be forced to use live fire as a last resort.

 

http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/the-flotilla-raid-was-not-bungled-the-idf-detailed-its-violent-strategy-in-advance/

 

You know who DID support Hamas? Israel. Did you know that, romy? Just like the US supported Saddam Hussein; just like the US is what created the Taliban into what it is today. Israel gave direct support to Hamas in order to counter the PLO, so I guess that means Israel has a direct responsibility to come in and aid the Palestinian populace they left in the hands of ruthless mercenaries, right?

[Alg]

I'm not sure that's a fair and/or unbiased source.

This is one of those issues where posting only one side of the story is bound to miss many of the most important details.