And correct me if I'm wrong but nowhere else in the world is there a country that was formed for a social group. Social groups may hold majorities, and they may even have tried to make their country all one religion/race or whatever, but never was a country FORMED on those things.

 

Uhh... Poland? And I gave that example on the basis of a relatively new country, but really, the majority of countries are based on either an ethnic group, an ideology, or both. USA is one of the only countries to be formed only around an ideology.

What group of people formed Poland then? Many countries are based on something but were not formed on exactly that. Spain is largely Catholic, but it was not formed as a home for Catholics.

 

An ethnic group isn't necessarily also a religion. Poland, France, Germany, Eygept, Israel, Mexico, all of those revolve around an ethnic group, not an ideology. Although, Israel fits both.

Ethnic groups form in areas though... that's why there is no ethnic Asian country in central Europe.. So because these countries are largely an ethnic group they were not made for that ethnic group.

 

Again we REALLY should get back on topic, I'm not going to post anything else unless it has to deal with he incident or if there is an incident with the Irish ship which is approaching the blockade.

 

But Poland forceably got it's land from Germany.

 

 

Anyway, you're right, we should be getting on topic.

 

It seems the Rachel Corrie safely reached the Ashdod shore. No violence or anything. (Although, there were rumors from inside the ship, disproved minutes later, that soldiers boarded the ship much earlier. In addition, it refused to turn to Ashdod 4 times.)

damn, i dont know even where to start some i'll just start from the easiest

This isn't even considering the fact that Jews are a very small minority in that region. It's not fair that they get that much land.

Dude, when was the last time you looked on the map ?

You can practically cross Isreal with a car , from Metulla (northest town) to Eilat (southest) and back in one day, and still have tank left.

I hope you you've been cynical there.

 

2. The Holocaust was bad, a minority of people dispute this. Just because something bad happens to you though doesn't mean you have the right to take something from someone who had nothing to do with your own plight. That's like someone burning down your house and it killed some of your family, do you have the right to go into another town and kick people out "your" new house because it was family tradition to believe your great great great grandfather lived there? Is that fair? Is that just? Can we really exploit others to achieve our own "fairness".

So, the Holocaust was bad...a litlle stain on the world history..kind of refershing to see how the new generation conceive one of the world greatest tragedies.

milions were slaugter and you take it as a "bad" incendent.

Now open the history book and tell me when was the last time the "Palestinians" have ruled Israel/Palestina/the region - let me give you a hint, never. dont rush to flame me for this sentence - i just want to put the facts as they are.

 

Do you also know how much the US pumps into Israel? If not militarily, economically for sure Israel would have already collapsed decades ago. There's a reason why they're so militarily advanced and that's because the US gives them hundreds of millions of dollars and all their old F16s.

Not gonna underestimate how valueable US friendship & support is for us but the lets ease the "without US you've been nothing"

If my memory still serve me correctly, the glories victories of 48, 67 & 73 were acheived before US has started backing up officialy (at least not as it as in the last 3 decades) - back then we were the one who were "small and justice".

and to your other statement - We are militery advanced because we have to - and not all of it is made in US you know.

 

and for the last one which i was personnaly offended by:

Ya the worlds not fair, why didn't we say that when the Jews wanted to form Israel.

This is actually sad we reached that point were kids around the world perceive us that way

I consider myself left-middle in my political view - i strongly support the 2 states for 2 nations solution as the only way.

I do think Netanyahu goverment is conveniently hiding behind the iranian issue in order to not deal with the important Palestinians issue.

I oppose Netanayho,the man and his policy, and i am ashamed that a goon like Lieberman is our foreign minister.

But, honstly, when i read statements like that, saying that i dont have the right to live in my own country, saying my country is an historical mistake which needs to be fixed.. i dont know what to say...

dude this is the type of statements which fuels the extermist right in my country ..i hope it's your partial knowledge of history/your age/ the fact you've been provacate to is what made you say such a statement.

It wasn't in their territorial waters.

I think it was established that the incident occurred 24 miles away from their territorial waters - I don't think anyone is disputing that.

 

And if they let it dock its quite simple if more tedious, and also more efficient, you have eyes on the boat the whole way in from just about every angle from like a mile off shore. When you get to shore you search every single person that comes off that boat. After every person is searched you go through every single crate, with the people who came in on the boat not even allowed in the dockyard and a 24/7 guard on the boat. The absolute worst that can happen is that someone smuggled a knife or a gun part up their ass, and even that could be stopped with metal detectors. The absolute worst Israel gets blamed for is delaying aid.

Like I said before:

To those of you that said Israel should have let the boat dock before searching... I completely disagree. Once the boat docks, its a thousand times easier to smuggle items into the country than it is when the water is deep and you're contained on board.

If the ship gets close enough to land, you can toss the cargo off the ship that you want to smuggle, and let insiders pick it up for you. You also don't have to worry about corrupt government officials allowing unchecked items into the country. There are many more reasons why its better to search a ship in deep waters than it is to let it dock first, and search it later.

 

 

I have very little sympathy for the people on the flotilla - Israel boarded the ship at a very late/early hour, probably the only people on deck were the ones that were resisting the troops. The actual "peace activists" would have been below deck and keeping their heads down, or asleep. The leaders of that ship provoked the boarding, and they attacked the boarders.

I can't help but think how similar the incident is to the 72 year old woman that got tasered:

http://www.foundingbloggers.com/wordpress/2009/06/another-cop-failure-72-year-old-woman-tasered-during-routine-traffic-stop/

Yes, the cop was in the wrong; but the Granny did nothing to help the situation.

The only way they could get stuff in is through a corrupt official... look what I said, you have it on watch the whole way in, to prevent just that and after everyone is off the only way that stuff is getting off is thru an official.

2. The Holocaust was bad, a minority of people dispute this. Just because something bad happens to you though doesn't mean you have the right to take something from someone who had nothing to do with your own plight. That's like someone burning down your house and it killed some of your family, do you have the right to go into another town and kick people out "your" new house because it was family tradition to believe your great great great grandfather lived there? Is that fair? Is that just? Can we really exploit others to achieve our own "fairness".

So, the Holocaust was bad...a litlle stain on the world history..kind of refershing to see how the new generation conceive one of the world greatest tragedies.

milions were slaugter and you take it as a "bad" incendent.

Now open the history book and tell me when was the last time the "Palestinians" have ruled Israel/Palestina/the region - let me give you a hint, never. dont rush to flame me for this sentence - i just want to put the facts as they are.

The Holocaust was bad but there are slaughters every generation. No one knows of the Armenian Genocide and percentage-wise that was a greater murder of a race, as was the Assyrian Genocide but you never hear of those now do you? Stalin killed/led to the death of approximately seven million Ukrainians but that is hardly discussed as well.

 

And don't play "high and mighty know-it-all" with me, because I would know the Palestinians didn't rule themselves in modern history as I'm named after an ancestor who did [he was a Syrian lord of Al Sham]. It was divided between the Mutesarrifiyyet of Jerusalem and [mostly] the Vilayet (Walidat) of Beirut. But the difference between foreign Jews ruling them as opposed to mostly Syrians is that Palestinians are Syrians [literally the same word in Arabic under a greater classification, "Shami"] so they share basic culture and brotherhood. And their division is mostly currently political not cultural, as Lebanon is also a "Shami"/Syrian country but Lebanon was a safe haven for Christians so they developed a more Europeanized version of the other Syrians, different country but ultimately same mother-province. So no, a lord from Jerusalem might have not ruled Al Sham but they were ruled by their brothers so there wasn't really a distinction or problem. You have a rather poor argument. The Lebanese never ruled themselves since the Phoenicians until their post WWII independence from France, does that make them any less valid? No, but there were in a similar case as the Palestinians.

 

Edit: As for your claim that Israel won those three major wars without US support, that is laughable as I had to do something for a final where I took a bunch of sources in regards to US-Israeli Relations and the US has been funding Israel since the get go. Israel's funding from the US over the years adds up into the trillions.

The only way they could get stuff in is through a corrupt official... look what I said, you have it on watch the whole way in, to prevent just that and after everyone is off the only way that stuff is getting off is thru an official.

Or when they dock Hamas could seize control of the area and the ship, and unload it themselves. Search and seizure in deep water is much easier, and less risky.

The only way they could get stuff in is through a corrupt official... look what I said, you have it on watch the whole way in, to prevent just that and after everyone is off the only way that stuff is getting off is thru an official.

I don't know much about Israeli politics, but let's take a look at how common these are in the states...

I have very little sympathy for the people on the flotilla - Israel boarded the ship at a very late/early hour, probably the only people on deck were the ones that were resisting the troops. The actual "peace activists" would have been below deck and keeping their heads down, or asleep. The leaders of that ship provoked the boarding, and they attacked the boarders.

 

Some of the people on board were muslim and would have been on the deck for their morning prayers when the Israeli's boarded.

I have very little sympathy for the people on the flotilla - Israel boarded the ship at a very late/early hour, probably the only people on deck were the ones that were resisting the troops. The actual "peace activists" would have been below deck and keeping their heads down, or asleep. The leaders of that ship provoked the boarding, and they attacked the boarders.

 

Most of the people on board were turkish arabs, most of them would have been on deck for morning prayers.

Turkish Arabs? Ignorance like that is why Western interventionism has greatly deteriorated the Middle East. Unless you mean Arabs who live in Turkey, which would be incorrect as those killed were defined as Turks and not Arabs.

I have very little sympathy for the people on the flotilla - Israel boarded the ship at a very late/early hour, probably the only people on deck were the ones that were resisting the troops. The actual "peace activists" would have been below deck and keeping their heads down, or asleep. The leaders of that ship provoked the boarding, and they attacked the boarders.

 

Most of the people on board were turkish arabs, most of them would have been on deck for morning prayers.

Turkish Arabs? Ignorance like that is why Western interventionism has greatly deteriorated the Middle East. Unless you mean Arabs who live in Turkey, which would be incorrect.

 

Then would you care to correct and educate me instead of just railing against my education which sadly did not foccus on the distinct religons of the middle east?

I have very little sympathy for the people on the flotilla - Israel boarded the ship at a very late/early hour, probably the only people on deck were the ones that were resisting the troops. The actual "peace activists" would have been below deck and keeping their heads down, or asleep. The leaders of that ship provoked the boarding, and they attacked the boarders.

 

Most of the people on board were turkish arabs, most of them would have been on deck for morning prayers.

Turkish Arabs? Ignorance like that is why Western interventionism has greatly deteriorated the Middle East. Unless you mean Arabs who live in Turkey, which would be incorrect.

 

Then would you care to correct and educate me instead of just railing against my education which sadly did not foccus on the distinct religons of the middle east?

I apologize, my response may have been factually correct but it was a bit rude and for that I am sorry. I think it is important to make the distinctions between peoples as it would be like Arabs referring to the French as French Magyars as social context is highly important in interpreting situations and conflicts. And the Turks would be Muslim, but not Arabs as Arab is cultural while Islam is religious.

There i have changed my original post and thank you for the lesson.

not that i want to reopen this issue but if any of you still have a doubt:

 

Turkish paper releases 'censored' photos of beaten Israeli commandos

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/turkish-paper-releases-censored-photos-of-beaten-israeli-commandos-1.294443

 

and the pictures:

http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/galeridetay.aspx?cid=36575&p=1&rid=2

 

again, i am not about re-opening the whole right or wrong, legal or not debates.

Still these pictures are another important piece in understanding what happened there.

Not gonna underestimate how valueable US friendship & support is for us but the lets ease the "without US you've been nothing"

If my memory still serve me correctly, the glories victories of 48, 67 & 73 were acheived before US has started backing up officialy (at least not as it as in the last 3 decades) - back then we were the one who were "small and justice".

and to your other statement - We are militery advanced because we have to - and not all of it is made in US you know.

Well in case anyone is wondering, it amounts to over $100,000,000,000 in aid since Israel was formed.

 

And no, it wasn't formal aid in the early days, but most of the hardware the fledgling IDF used came from Western sources, a lot of it from the US as far as I can tell. And of course, the US was the first nation to recognize Israel's independence, which is pretty important too.

 

I do think Netanyahu goverment is conveniently hiding behind the iranian issue in order to not deal with the important Palestinians issue.

I oppose Netanayho,the man and his policy, and i am ashamed that a goon like Lieberman is our foreign minister.

But, honstly, when i read statements like that, saying that i dont have the right to live in my own country, saying my country is an historical mistake which needs to be fixed.. i dont know what to say...

dude this is the type of statements which fuels the extermist right in my country ..i hope it's your partial knowledge of history/your age/ the fact you've been provacate to is what made you say such a statement.

Yep, you're pretty much right on. It is extremists on both sides of the issue that are the problem.

 

And this is why people like myself are becoming more vocal.

 

As for your more recent post, I don't think anyone is disputing that the commandos were attacked when they landed on the ship. They just shouldn't have been there at all. And once again, note that those pictures prove conclusively that if the people on the ship wanted those Israelis dead, they would be. Resisting was wrong, but they very arguably showed more restraint than Israel did.

The Holocaust was bad but there are slaughters every generation. No one knows of the Armenian Genocide and percentage-wise that was a greater murder of a race, as was the Assyrian Genocide but you never hear of those now do you? Stalin killed/led to the death of approximately seven million Ukrainians but that is hardly discussed as well.

So whats your point dude? so you guys been genocide, stop whining, it happens everywhere, get over it ? what can i say, great humanitarian argument.

 

And don't play "high and mighty know-it-all" with me,

I am not, just wanted to make sure the person in front knows what he's talking about.

And ye, you seem well familier (and biased) with the issue.

 

let me summerize your next quote

because I would know the Palestinians didn't rule themselves...Palestinians are Syrians..they share basic culture and brotherhood

so, back in 47, when the partition plan was decided, the south-west syrains (the Palestinains) together with their brothers from the east decided to reject the plan - they just couldn't afford giving those weird people with their wierd hats a small piece of land to lay their heads after years of persucation, from all the lands they had still they didn't had a squere to spare.

Well, we all know what happened later.

Regarding the "brotherhood" - you know as well as i what is the condition of the palestinains on their "brothers" land. some brotherhood.

 

Edit: As for your claim that Israel won those three major wars without US support, that is laughable as I had to do something for a final where I took a bunch of sources in regards to US-Israeli Relations and the US has been funding Israel since the get go. Israel's funding from the US over the years adds up into the trillions.

And since i am not proven to be wrong , i am holding on to that statement.

We won those 3 wars without any advantage but our wil to live in our own free country - few vs many yet we won.

 

But that was back then..nowdays,after years of endless blood shed the only solution is to compromise.

Rabin knew that,Arafat didn't.

Leave the damn islamic pride a side, leave the extremist dreams of "big Israel".

It will probably not happen in this generation or the next but one day people will get it into their heads, or not.

The only way they could get stuff in is through a corrupt official... look what I said, you have it on watch the whole way in, to prevent just that and after everyone is off the only way that stuff is getting off is thru an official.

Or when they dock Hamas could seize control of the area and the ship, and unload it themselves. Search and seizure in deep water is much easier, and less risky.

I realize this is kinda far back but...

 

Then who is the bad guy? Hamas. Chalk one up for Israel. Not to mention that's not how Hamas operates, they prefer to suicide bomb or launch rockets and hide behind innocents. I think if they actually got in a firefight with Israel they'd get crushed.

The Holocaust was bad but there are slaughters every generation. No one knows of the Armenian Genocide and percentage-wise that was a greater murder of a race, as was the Assyrian Genocide but you never hear of those now do you? Stalin killed/led to the death of approximately seven million Ukrainians but that is hardly discussed as well.

So whats your point dude? so you guys been genocide, stop whining, it happens everywhere, get over it ? what can i say, great humanitarian argument.

Don't distort what I'm saying, I acknowledged it was bad, if that was a "stop whining" argument I would have said Holocaust, big deal. But there are many other genocides and you justify the occupation of Palestine as a sort of consolation reparation to the Jews which is completely idiotic because it doesn't matter what degree of wronging has been done to you, the innocent will never owe the wronged anything. The innocent should perhaps assist the wronged but they owe them nothing.

 

And don't play "high and mighty know-it-all" with me,

I am not, just wanted to make sure the person in front knows what he's talking about.

And ye, you seem well familier (and biased) with the issue.

I am familiar with the issue, but I am not biased, I dislike impartiality, a sense of being owed and the exploitation of others justified by one's own plight. If one does not enjoy their own kicking into the ground, they should not confer their plight amongst others.

 

let me summerize your next quote

because I would know the Palestinians didn't rule themselves...Palestinians are Syrians..they share basic culture and brotherhood

so, back in 47, when the partition plan was decided, the south-west syrains (the Palestinains) together with their brothers from the east decided to reject the plan - they just couldn't afford giving those weird people with their wierd hats a small piece of land to lay their heads after years of persucation, from all the lands they had still they didn't had a squere to spare.

Well, we all know what happened later.

Regarding the "brotherhood" - you know as well as i what is the condition of the palestinains on their "brothers" land. some brotherhood.

As I said the innocent owe the wronged nothing. I said collectively they were Syrians, but distinct Syrians, as Palestinians lived in Palestine, etc. The Palestinians owed the Jews nothing, and there were quite a few Jews in Greater Syria (Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Lebanon) until the seizure of Arab land to create Israel which prompted the Arabs to get [wrongfully] annoyed with all the Jews and expel them. The Jews could have lived in the Middle East if they wanted in Syrian states, but when you take land you're asking for enemies.

 

And the continuation of the innocent owe the wronged nothing is evident. The Palestinians were allowed to enter into the countries of their brothers freely. However when they tried to seize Jordan they were expelled because, again, the King owed them nothing as he did nothing to them. When they entered Lebanon and became terrorists, the Maronites fought hard to kill them, because again, the innocent owe the wronged nothing, especially after they generously let them enter their country. The Palestinians had all right to retain their land when the Zionists seized it as they owed them nothing, but Jordan and Lebanon have all right to expel the Palestinians because they allowed them to enter but they then tried to takeover which is ungrateful and backstabbing. However it was not the common Palestinians who attempted to takeover, rather the terrorists, so it wasn't dispute amongst brothers, rather brothers vs. the renegade and selfish.

 

Edit: As for your claim that Israel won those three major wars without US support, that is laughable as I had to do something for a final where I took a bunch of sources in regards to US-Israeli Relations and the US has been funding Israel since the get go. Israel's funding from the US over the years adds up into the trillions.

And since i am not proven to be wrong , i am holding on to that statement.

We won those 3 wars without any advantage but our wil to live in our own free country - few vs many yet we won.

 

But that was back then..nowdays,after years of endless blood shed the only solution is to compromise.

Rabin knew that,Arafat didn't.

Leave the damn islamic pride a side, leave the extremist dreams of "big Israel".

It will probably not happen in this generation or the next but one day people will get it into their heads, or not.

Without any advantages-other than millions of US dollars, high tech weaponry supplied by the US and the support of the US president, Harry Truman, a self proclaimed Zionist himself. Oh yes, the Israelis had no advantage other than all the weapons the Arabs didn't have. You are obviously delusional if you don't think the enemies of Israel were extremely technologically inferior.

 

I'm not quite sure you mean by "Leave the damn islamic pride a side, leave the extremist dreams of "big Israel".", especially since I don't have Islamic pride as I am not a Muslim.

The only way they could get stuff in is through a corrupt official... look what I said, you have it on watch the whole way in, to prevent just that and after everyone is off the only way that stuff is getting off is thru an official.

Or when they dock Hamas could seize control of the area and the ship, and unload it themselves. Search and seizure in deep water is much easier, and less risky.

I realize this is kinda far back but...

 

Then who is the bad guy? Hamas. Chalk one up for Israel. Not to mention that's not how Hamas operates, they prefer to suicide bomb or launch rockets and hide behind innocents. I think if they actually got in a firefight with Israel they'd get crushed.

My original point is that Israel cannot let ships dock in that area before knowing whats in them.

Don't distort what I'm saying, I acknowledged it was bad, if that was a "stop whining" argument I would have said Holocaust, big deal. But there are many other genocides and you justify the occupation of Palestine as a sort of consolation reparation to the Jews which is completely idiotic because it doesn't matter what degree of wronging has been done to you, the innocent will never owe the wronged anything. The innocent should perhaps assist the wronged but they owe them nothing.

First i admit, after reviewing your post again its clearly not what you meant -i take it back. Thats what happen sometimes when you read the same sentence over and over - it gets out of context.

So what are you saying there ? why the Holocaust was different from other genocides? why the U.N. decided what it decided back then?

I think the answers are pretty clear.

 

And the continuation of the innocent owe the wronged nothing is evident. The Palestinians were allowed to enter into the countries of their brothers freely. However when they tried to seize Jordan they were expelled because, again, the King owed them nothing as he did nothing to them. When they entered Lebanon and became terrorists, the Maronites fought hard to kill them, because again, the innocent owe the wronged nothing, especially after they generously let them enter their country. The Palestinians had all right to retain their land when the Zionists seized it as they owed them nothing, but Jordan and Lebanon have all right to expel the Palestinians because they allowed them to enter but they then tried to takeover which is ungrateful and backstabbing. However it was not the common Palestinians who attempted to takeover, rather the terrorists, so it wasn't dispute amongst brothers, rather brothers vs. the renegade and selfish.

You have few minor inaccuracies but one big misconception - the fact you consider the arab league innocents. In my opinion they have equal share in the palestinians tragedy.

 

Without any advantages-other than millions of US dollars, high tech weaponry supplied by the US and the support of the US president, Harry Truman, a self proclaimed Zionist himself. Oh yes, the Israelis had no advantage other than all the weapons the Arabs didn't have. You are obviously delusional if you don't think the enemies of Israel were extremely technologically inferior.

Well..dont be lazy, go and read about those wars.again, we had no technological supermacy back then,only tactical ingenuity and strong motivation.

 

I'm not quite sure you mean by "Leave the damn islamic pride a side, leave the extremist dreams of "big Israel".", especially since I don't have Islamic pride as I am not a Muslim.

It wasn't directed at you. I was saying it generaly.when extremist on both sides will be able to comprehend that compromise is the only solution then will be peace.

 

Last word - i think we are pretty close to a deadend in this discussion - in the end it will only come down to whose injustice was bigger. as always.

Not gonna underestimate how valueable US friendship & support is for us but the lets ease the "without US you've been nothing"

If my memory still serve me correctly, the glories victories of 48, 67 & 73 were acheived before US has started backing up officialy (at least not as it as in the last 3 decades) - back then we were the one who were "small and justice".

and to your other statement - We are militery advanced because we have to - and not all of it is made in US you know.

Well in case anyone is wondering, it amounts to over $100,000,000,000 in aid since Israel was formed.

 

And no, it wasn't formal aid in the early days, but most of the hardware the fledgling IDF used came from Western sources, a lot of it from the US as far as I can tell. And of course, the US was the first nation to recognize Israel's independence, which is pretty important too.

 

I do think Netanyahu goverment is conveniently hiding behind the iranian issue in order to not deal with the important Palestinians issue.

I oppose Netanayho,the man and his policy, and i am ashamed that a goon like Lieberman is our foreign minister.

But, honstly, when i read statements like that, saying that i dont have the right to live in my own country, saying my country is an historical mistake which needs to be fixed.. i dont know what to say...

dude this is the type of statements which fuels the extermist right in my country ..i hope it's your partial knowledge of history/your age/ the fact you've been provacate to is what made you say such a statement.

Yep, you're pretty much right on. It is extremists on both sides of the issue that are the problem.

 

And this is why people like myself are becoming more vocal.

 

As for your more recent post, I don't think anyone is disputing that the commandos were attacked when they landed on the ship. They just shouldn't have been there at all. And once again, note that those pictures prove conclusively that if the people on the ship wanted those Israelis dead, they would be. Resisting was wrong, but they very arguably showed more restraint than Israel did.

 

 

In the early days of Israel and the wars, the U.S did not give Israel anything? Even if you don't believe Matok, who lived there. I asked my dad, a veteran of 3 or 4 Israeli wars to confirm that they did not indeed have the U.S aid support, atleast in the early wars. Not sure about later wars, my dad went to sleep.

It was smaller than the outrageous sums since the 1970s, but was definitely there. And only a fool would understate the importance of the US immediately recognizing Israel's independence.

 

“It is my responsibility to see that our policy in Israel fits in with our policy throughout the world; second, it is my desire to help build in Palestine a strong, prosperous, free and independent democratic state. It must be large enough, free enough, and strong enough to make its people self-supporting and secure,” President Truman said in a speech October 28, 1948.

 

Truman's commitment was quickly tested after Israel's victory in its War of Independence when she applied to the U.S. for economic aid to help absorb immigrants. President Truman responded by approving a $135 million Export-Import Bank loan and the sale of surplus commodities to Israel. In those early years of Israel's statehood (also today), U.S. aid was seen as a means of promoting peace.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

 

Two days later, on May 14, 1948, the United States, under Truman, became the first country to extend de facto recognition to the State of Israel, 11 minutes after it unilaterally declared itself independent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations

 

 

# Soon after the Truman decision in 1948 to recognize Israel as a Jewish State, the US Congress approved an aid package in the form of a $135 million Export-Import Bank loan in order to take in holocaust survivors and provide them with homes.

 

# Until 1973, aid was mainly made up of military, economic and export-import bank loans, although annual economic grants ranging between $0.1 and $74 million were also offered between the years 1951 and 1962.

http://www.ccmep.org/hotnews2/usforeignaid041402.html#A2

 

* Total direct aid to Israel, 1948-2003: $89.9 billion (uncorrected for inflation)

* Since 1976 Israel has been the largest annual recipient of US aid. It is the largest cumulative recipient since World War II.

* Direct U.S. aid for each Israeli citizen in 2001 (per capita annual income of Israel = $16,710) -- over $500

* Direct U.S. Aid for each Ethiopian citizen in 2001 (per capita annual income of Ethiopia = $100) -- about $.45

* Percentage of U.S. foreign aid that goes to Israel -- 30%

* Israel's population as a percentage of world population -- .01%

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_17.shtml

It was smaller than the outrageous sums since the 1970s, but was definitely there. And only a fool would understate the importance of the US immediately recognizing Israel's independence.

 

It is my responsibility to see that our policy in Israel fits in with our policy throughout the world; second, it is my desire to help build in Palestine a strong, prosperous, free and independent democratic state. It must be large enough, free enough, and strong enough to make its people self-supporting and secure, President Truman said in a speech October 28, 1948.

 

Truman's commitment was quickly tested after Israel's victory in its War of Independence when she applied to the U.S. for economic aid to help absorb immigrants. President Truman responded by approving a $135 million Export-Import Bank loan and the sale of surplus commodities to Israel. In those early years of Israel's statehood (also today), U.S. aid was seen as a means of promoting peace.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

 

Two days later, on May 14, 1948, the United States, under Truman, became the first country to extend de facto recognition to the State of Israel, 11 minutes after it unilaterally declared itself independent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations

 

 

# Soon after the Truman decision in 1948 to recognize Israel as a Jewish State, the US Congress approved an aid package in the form of a $135 million Export-Import Bank loan in order to take in holocaust survivors and provide them with homes.

 

# Until 1973, aid was mainly made up of military, economic and export-import bank loans, although annual economic grants ranging between $0.1 and $74 million were also offered between the years 1951 and 1962.

http://www.ccmep.org/hotnews2/usforeignaid041402.html#A2

 

* Total direct aid to Israel, 1948-2003: $89.9 billion (uncorrected for inflation)

* Since 1976 Israel has been the largest annual recipient of US aid. It is the largest cumulative recipient since World War II.

* Direct U.S. aid for each Israeli citizen in 2001 (per capita annual income of Israel = $16,710) -- over $500

* Direct U.S. Aid for each Ethiopian citizen in 2001 (per capita annual income of Ethiopia = $100) -- about $.45

* Percentage of U.S. foreign aid that goes to Israel -- 30%

* Israel's population as a percentage of world population -- .01%

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_17.shtml

 

And it was very little in the start. Also, it's a lot less then 100 trillion another poster mentioned, plus, in the war of 48 there was no or very little financial aid from the U.S, the wars were won because of strategy.

And it was very little in the start.

It was enough, between the US and European nations, that without it, you and I would not be having this conversation.

 

The Israelis definitely outsmarted their enemies in 1948. But they did so with munitions donated from the West, and don't ever forget it.

More reasons to never trust the IDF, ever:

 

The Israeli Defense Force has issued a "clarification" admitting it manipulated audio of its raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.

 

On Friday, the IDF released audio of what it said was an exchange between Israel Navy officers and the crew of the Mavi Marmara, the main vessel in the flotilla. In it, voices could be heard telling the Israeli soldiers to "go back to Auschwitz" and "we're helping Arabs go against the US -- don't forget 9/11, guys."

 

But flotilla passengers quickly began disputing the veracity of the audio clip.

 

Investigative journalist Max Blumenthal reports that the head of the Free Gaza movement, Huwaida Arraf, could be heard on the videotape asserting the flotilla's right to enter Gaza territory. But Arraf says she wasn't on board the Mavi Marmara, and was actually on board another ship, the Challenger One. Another flotilla member whose voice can be heard on the audio, Ali Abunimah, also said he wasn't aboard the Mavi Marmara.

 

According to a news report from the Palestinian news agency Ma'an, Arraf suggests the audio of her that appeared in the clip came from an earlier exchange between her and Israeli forces, but she admits she "could not be sure" she didn't repeat her assertion during exchanges with the IDF during the raid.

 

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0606/idf-admits-doctoring-audio-gaza-flotilla/

 

This is why I trust Max Blumenthal, local ;)

Had I listened to the audio before that one post I'd have been agreeing. It did sound very staged... :lol: Heard it a day or so later.