Dungeoneering Strategy Discussion

[TheAncient]

I wanted to open up a discussion on high-level Dungeoneering strategy.

 

TEAMMATES

I find that good teammates make or break effective XP rates, so it's pretty important to get good teammates quickly and effectively. What is the best way to find teammates? Are there high level dungeoneering clans that I don't know about? How many high level Dungeoneers actually go to W117 to find random teammates?

 

FLOOR SIZE / DESIGN CHOICES

What is the most effective size for each floor? Should you ever use a lower complexity? For medium/large floors, should you always do 5:5 or is it worth it to do 5:4 in case someone drops?

 

DESIGNATED TOOLS

Is designating a single tool person always the best? Shouldn't you encourage all your teammates to hold at least a few basic tools? Opening skill doors is often a rate-determining step if the toolperson is separated and far away. I also think the keyperson should always hold tools too, just because that maximizes the possible doors you can open.

 

GATESTONES

Should you use Gatestones on small rushes? My personal opinion is yes. They're extremely useful for bosses anyway, so you might as well make them.

What is the best way to use Gatestones? How do you use them?

Bosses to use gatestones on: Stomp, Plane-freezer, Astea Frostweb, Skeletal Horde, Sagittare.

You should always gate outside of the boss room, I think.

 

BOUND ITEMS

What are the best order to bind: Blood necklace, Shadow hood, Pro Plate, Pro Spear?

What is the best ammo to bind? Blood runes, Death runes, or Arrows?

[The_Avatar]

Don't be afraid to leave a team that you think is going to severely slow you down, or cripple your xp. I actually had a party leader tell me "no gatestone or kick" I instantly knew my time would be better spent finding a team that knew the ins and outs of Dungeoneering rather than wasting my time there.

 

I feel that in small dungeons, one tool holder is more than enough. However in a large dungeon, it can be hard to keep everyone coordinated, so I'd say at least a few people should be carrying the proper tools.

 

As far as binding items goes, I can't recommend Sagittarian arrows enough, the whole bundle of 125 alchs for about 300k, meaning you should never have to worry about money for supplies such as food right before a boss. When binding items always take into account that it isn't too hard to find someone willing to make you a prome plate or spear, so if you find something fairly rare and want to try it out for a while, don't be afraid to get rid of one of your current binds.

[Viv]

I wanted to open up a discussion on high-level Dungeoneering strategy.

 

TEAMMATES

I find that good teammates make or break effective XP rates, so it's pretty important to get good teammates quickly and effectively. What is the best way to find teammates? Are there high level dungeoneering clans that I don't know about? How many high level Dungeoneers actually go to W117 to find random teammates?

best way to find teamates is to ask people for add that are good at dungeoneering usually at peak times someone will ask you if you want to join a floor and having familiar people you dungeoneered with before helps alot as you can know thier style of dungeoneering. I dungeoneer with random teamates in 117 and it usually isnt that bad and thier is many high lvl dungeoneers that use that for thier 4th and 5th party member. usually 2-3 people can lead the randomers. Having 3 people and 2 totally clueless people doesnt help at all

FLOOR SIZE / DESIGN CHOICES

What is the most effective size for each floor? Should you ever use a lower complexity? For medium/large floors, should you always do 5:5 or is it worth it to do 5:4 in case someone drops? the method that im currently using is complex 1-4 1-24 solo or with friends - thiers really not much difference between friends/solo and then large 5:5 25-35 rushing killing only guard doors/some puzzle doors with randomers this takes some leading

 

DESIGNATED TOOLS

Is designating a single tool person always the best? Shouldn't you encourage all your teammates to hold at least a few basic tools? Opening skill doors is often a rate-determining step if the toolperson is separated and far away. I also think the keyperson should always hold tools too, just because that maximizes the possible doors you can open. If only one person has the tools it can get agrivating especcially because alot of doors can be opened by the avg skiller. The key person should have tools also even though it can get hard to carry all of those items at once. Essential tools are pickaxe/hammer/tinderbox - the knife/vial/fishingtools/hatchet can be with a single tool person ...sometimes i dont buy tools cuz lazy picking up items on table and then u have to be like "drop the tools"

 

GATESTONES

Should you use Gatestones on small rushes? My personal opinion is yes. They're extremely useful for bosses anyway, so you might as well make them.

What is the best way to use Gatestones? How do you use them?

Bosses to use gatestones on: Stomp, Plane-freezer, Astea Frostweb, Skeletal Horde, Sagittare.

You should always gate outside of the boss room, I think.

 

i make gates if i have ess on table or enough coins after buying all 8 tools even though i prob should make gates first priority. Key person should always have gatestone runes because they can gate far away doors and also if running through rooms can tele out if about to de or after opening door. Outside boss room gates should always be used so when you run out of food or pray can tele out and either charge pray or can heal in safety, can tele out to lower pummelers defence can tele out when entangled by geomancer can tele out when binded running through a room good for key person....if the whole team has gatestone they can gate keys all across map and transfer keys to the base since the keyperson can only have one gatestone.

 

BOUND ITEMS

What are the best order to bind: Blood necklace, Shadow hood, Pro Plate, Pro Spear?

What is the best ammo to bind? Blood runes, Death runes, or Arrows?

currently i have bounded a pro plate and a pro 2h i had a spear but got bored of it 2h hits harder and is more accuarate ad looks cooler but spear has the stab attack style which helps I would go for blood necklace if ur mainly a berseker in the party and id go for the hood if your mainly the keyer of the party. hexhunter bow is also an option but its so rare to even see a soulgazer.....id go for that to pwn all the mage based bosses and mages. i want a bloodnecklace onl seen on ground once but wasnt fast enough :P

[Dragonlordjl]

Order of 2nd binds:

 

Hexhunter shortbow > Shadow Silk Hood > Promethium Platebody > Primal Full Helm (just because of rarity) > Blood Necklace (overrated item, imo, but it is a great 3rd bind if you get 100+ dung) > Primal Skirt > Everything else

 

The hexhunter bow (and therefore the SoulGazer enemy) does exist, as a friend of mine has one. It's probably the rarest item in the game right now, and it is extremely powerful in the dungeons. Against Forgotten Mages, Shades, and most bosses, it hits consistent 300-400s and because it is a short-bow, it hits them very quickly. If you can get ahold of one of these bows and can use it, I highly recommend binding it over anything else.

 

The Shadow Silk hood is also amazing. It allows you to be neutral to the majority of enemies in F30-35: skeletons (but not skeleton mages), forgotten warriors, forgotten rangers, and hill giants. The big two things to watch out for with the hood are Forgotten Mages and Shades. If a Forgotten Mage spots you, it disables your "invisibility" for about 15 seconds, which can be lethal if you are in a room full of monsters by yourself. Other enemies that the hood doesn't work on are pickaxes, hobgoblins, spiders, bats, dogs, dragons, and brutes. That may seem like a lot of monsters that the hood doesn't protect against, but zombies, skeletons, and forgotten warriors/archers are the most commonly found enemies in the later dungeons so it's better than it seems. Note that most enemies in the ice levels can see through your hood, but seeing as it is most efficient to just c1 rush the ice levels, that is of little consequence.

[Napalm]

The hexhunter bow (and therefore the SoulGazer enemy) does exist, as a friend of mine has one. It's probably the rarest item in the game right now, and it is extremely powerful in the dungeons. Against Forgotten Mages, Shades, and most bosses, it hits consistent 300-400s and because it is a short-bow, it hits them very quickly. If you can get ahold of one of these bows and can use it, I highly recommend binding it over anything else.

 

By the way you say it, it seems to be the most powerfull weapon in dungoneering so far. What level does it require to wield?

[Dragonlordjl]

The hexhunter bow (and therefore the SoulGazer enemy) does exist, as a friend of mine has one. It's probably the rarest item in the game right now, and it is extremely powerful in the dungeons. Against Forgotten Mages, Shades, and most bosses, it hits consistent 300-400s and because it is a short-bow, it hits them very quickly. If you can get ahold of one of these bows and can use it, I highly recommend binding it over anything else.

 

By the way you say it, it seems to be the most powerfull weapon in dungoneering so far. What level does it require to wield?

98 ranged. But given the rarity of the level 99 slayer SoulGazer and that it's not a guaranteed drop for it, good luck getting one. I'm nearly 88 dungeoneering and I have never seen a SoulGazer.

[tortilliachp]

binds: hexhunter, saggitarian arrows, blood necklace (at level 120 also hood). you can make gorgonite armour for yourself in every dungeon if you have "high level" skills, as this topic is about high level strategy.

 

c5 is always the most efficient exp. At least that's how No excuses, i run keys, x harnas x, green098, shysteph, neo and whats logout rush. I've had the privilege of rushing with all of these at certain points.

 

 

 

teammates: if you're 137+ finding a good team is not really a problem in w117. you could always use a cc, or forums in combination, but starting your own team if there's a floor not being advertised works fine. High total / dungeoneering also helps. With good teams, you should always do complexity 5 (it's most efficient). if in a small dungeon, bosses seem to be easier anyway, so you don't really need all 5 for the boss, you can realistically complete it all other than levers / emotions with 4 people. for large dungeons, chances are it's a d/c and they'll be back. if someone quits due to an early death, you haven't lost much time, and can usually find them to restart with, loosing only a tad of exp / hour.

 

If someone advertises a rush, say f 22-30, if you only need f 22, or 22-23 i wouldn't hesitate joining, then leaving when you've done the floors you want. Everyone does it to some degree, and they can easily see what floors you need in the tick-list so they should know what to expect.

 

Designated tools: always designate highest total to tools, if they're not running keys as well. By delegating responsibility, chances are an unknown team-mate will do more than usual. if you're not doing keys, you should either make and take mage runes (for pesky forgotten warriors at guard doors) or bring tools for the skills you have at a reasonably high level. Personally, i bring tools + fire surge + gatestone runes for all large dungeons. gatestones aren't really worth it in small dungeons imo, then it's much more important stocking up on food for the boss than the extra inventory spaces for maximum speed, i think.

 

using gatestones: in larges, whenever it's quicker to use a gatestone, i use one. Usually a gatestone teleport in combination with a home teleport. when the dungeon develops, having different teammembers gatestoning different keys speeds things up, especially if they are guaranteed dead-end rooms far away from other places. gatestones can also be used effectively to avoid combat when you're rushing: using gatestones / home teles to avoid combat areas where you've left creatures alive.

[Obtaurian]

This topic is very relevant to my interests. Speaking of Hexhunter bows, apparently a lot of people lost their bound items after the Court Cases update, and a guy on the RSOF was complaining about losing his Hexhunter bow. If he really did lose one, that's a serious FML moment.

[TheAncient]

Don't be afraid to leave a team that you think is going to severely slow you down, or cripple your xp. I actually had a party leader tell me "no gatestone or kick" I instantly knew my time would be better spent finding a team that knew the ins and outs of Dungeoneering rather than wasting my time there.

 

I feel that in small dungeons, one tool holder is more than enough. However in a large dungeon, it can be hard to keep everyone coordinated, so I'd say at least a few people should be carrying the proper tools.

 

As far as binding items goes, I can't recommend Sagittarian arrows enough, the whole bundle of 125 alchs for about 300k, meaning you should never have to worry about money for supplies such as food right before a boss. When binding items always take into account that it isn't too hard to find someone willing to make you a prome plate or spear, so if you find something fairly rare and want to try it out for a while, don't be afraid to get rid of one of your current binds.

 

Didn't know you could alch bound ammo.

Btw, sagg arrows alch for 3k each.

 

c5 is always the most efficient exp. At least that's how No excuses, i run keys, x harnas x, green098, shysteph, neo and whats logout rush. I've had the privilege of rushing with all of these at certain points.

You mean C6, right?

[Myu]

 

You mean C6, right?

 

Have they fixed that you automatically go to the next complexity? Otherwise it just seems to be a hassle to go out and back in after every dungeon.

[tortilliachp]

c5 is always the most efficient exp. At least that's how No excuses, i run keys, x harnas x, green098, shysteph, neo and whats logout rush. I've had the privilege of rushing with all of these at certain points.

You mean C6, right?

 

ah yes. i meant c6 5:5 lol :P went a little bit too fast

[TheAncient]

What do you suggest using cash for (other than food)?

Melee legs? Herb seeds?

[tortilliachp]

What do you suggest using cash for (other than food)?

Melee legs? Herb seeds?

 

I would personally say first tools at the start of a map, then on a small map i'd only go for food (remember to woodcut a decent log to burn less fish). On a large map i'd buy about 250 rune essence for maging with afterwards. Then i'd save the rest for food before the boss, and food for the rest of my team to save time.

 

with 99 defence (a basic requirement for "high level" in my opinion), you really don't need more armour, especially not when you're running around with your self-fletched gravecreeper longbow, and mage runes that you're using to utilize the combat triangle to its full potential down there. If anything, i'd buy mage gloves and range boots with spare cash, or gear for the style i'm using on the actual boss when i know that.

 

using your money to help the team usually is more effective than helping yourself though, because you do, after all, know what you're doing :D

[TheAncient]

By the way, here is my usual procedure for the start of large maps:

 

1. Pick up (in order of priority):

-- Good bows

-- Rune Ess

-- Coins

-- Random valuable junk to sell

-- Food

-- Relevant Runes

 

2. Make Alch Runes, and if possible, GS runes

 

3. Alch some Sagg arrows

 

4. Buy Ess + Tools

 

5. Make other runes

[tortilliachp]

By the way, here is my usual procedure for the start of large maps:

 

1. Pick up (in order of priority):

-- Good bows

-- Rune Ess

-- Coins

-- Random valuable junk to sell

-- Food

-- Relevant Runes

 

2. Make Alch Runes, and if possible, GS runes

 

3. Alch some Sagg arrows

 

4. Buy Ess + Tools

 

5. Make other runes

exact same, except i don't alch my arrows. I do start-up run, make do with little essence, cheapest pickaxe/ axe, then loot cash for essence in the first room of killing and make runes.

 

why alch arrows when you don't need to?

[Krampell]

An extra amount of money is never wrong.

[Squisher_33]

the sag arrow idea amazez me, im 80 and have never had a bound ammo so this is amazing to me

 

also prim helm exists? what drops it and why is it rare? shouldnt u get one every 5 man large?

 

i think i solod a katagon helm from skeletal hoard but like 3/4 the time i do that the stupid skinweaver doesnt even give me a single reward, only like 25% i actualy get a helm, is that why its rare?

[Sly_Wizard]

Don't be afraid to leave a team that you think is going to severely slow you down, or cripple your xp.

 

Don't do the above. It's a sure fire way to royally piss people off-- especially if the remaining members get "stuck" in a dungeon because of it.

 

Anyway, I guess I need to stay playing with more people who have 99 slayer, because I've never once seen a Soulgazer, and I'm 80 dung.

[Dragonlordjl]

Don't be afraid to leave a team that you think is going to severely slow you down, or cripple your xp.

 

Don't do the above. It's a sure fire way to royally piss people off-- especially if the remaining members get "stuck" in a dungeon because of it.

 

Anyway, I guess I need to stay playing with more people who have 99 slayer, because I've never once seen a Soulgazer, and I'm 80 dung.

Many 90+ dungeoneering vets are parts of various groups that keep lists of players who quit during dungeons. You do not want to end up on one of those lists if you want to still find quality team members.

 

Speaking of the Soul Gazers, as I said I'm 220k off 88 and I've never seen one, and the teams I go with usually have at least two 99 slayer people. And these people themselves, many of whom are over 100 dungeoneering, have never seen one either. They are just extremely rare.

[Dragonlordjl]

the sag arrow idea amazez me, im 80 and have never had a bound ammo so this is amazing to me

 

also prim helm exists? what drops it and why is it rare? shouldnt u get one every 5 man large?

 

i think i solod a katagon helm from skeletal hoard but like 3/4 the time i do that the stupid skinweaver doesnt even give me a single reward, only like 25% i actualy get a helm, is that why its rare?

If you get a sag longbow, you also get 100-125 sag arrows.

 

Skeletal Horde drops the Primal Helm, and much of its rarity is because people usually don't do the floors that spawn that particular boss in 5:5 larges. Therefore, the RNG has to spawn the boss in F30-35 (where all bosses from non-ice levels can spawn), which is quite uncommon.

[Viv]

Don't be afraid to leave a team that you think is going to severely slow you down, or cripple your xp.

 

Don't do the above. It's a sure fire way to royally piss people off-- especially if the remaining members get "stuck" in a dungeon because of it.

 

Anyway, I guess I need to stay playing with more people who have 99 slayer, because I've never once seen a Soulgazer, and I'm 80 dung.

Many 90+ dungeoneering vets are parts of various groups that keep lists of players who quit during dungeons. You do not want to end up on one of those lists if you want to still find quality team members.

 

Speaking of the Soul Gazers, as I said I'm 220k off 88 and I've never seen one, and the teams I go with usually have at least two 99 slayer people. And these people themselves, many of whom are over 100 dungeoneering, have never seen one either. They are just extremely rare.

I have never seen a soulgazer either but i think edimu soulgazers will be more common on the higher floors. =)

 

I have never quit during a dungeon but i have never seen any of these "list" either but would like too though I do have a short mental list of bad people to team with....

 

thiers only a few times where I would have been better to quit a dungeon than stay with the group and one of the times is when they had barely any map at 30 mins in....was thinking of quitting during then and everyone quit b4 the 530 riftsplitter boss and me and this other dude were alone and 2 doors still unopen...1hr 40min waste =p most of the time you can speed up a slow group

 

Thiers too many people that ragequit after dieing at levers or dieing to a combo from monsters if in begining a regroup is prob better but if its far in....its just annoying as that one or two deaths is not going to hurt your exp that much if your that far in...but thier is only one instance where a mime prevented us from completing boss so usually that one person doesnt effect the teams chance of completing dungeon unless a maxed player quits and noone else is maxed and noone else has the levels to find critical boss paths.

[The_Avatar]

Don't be afraid to leave a team that you think is going to severely slow you down, or cripple your xp.

 

Don't do the above. It's a sure fire way to royally piss people off-- especially if the remaining members get "stuck" in a dungeon because of it.

 

Anyway, I guess I need to stay playing with more people who have 99 slayer, because I've never once seen a Soulgazer, and I'm 80 dung.

Many 90+ dungeoneering vets are parts of various groups that keep lists of players who quit during dungeons. You do not want to end up on one of those lists if you want to still find quality team members.

 

Speaking of the Soul Gazers, as I said I'm 220k off 88 and I've never seen one, and the teams I go with usually have at least two 99 slayer people. And these people themselves, many of whom are over 100 dungeoneering, have never seen one either. They are just extremely rare.

I have never seen a soulgazer either but i think edimu soulgazers will be more common on the higher floors. =)

 

I have never quit during a dungeon but i have never seen any of these "list" either but would like too though I do have a short mental list of bad people to team with....

 

thiers only a few times where I would have been better to quit a dungeon than stay with the group and one of the times is when they had barely any map at 30 mins in....was thinking of quitting during then and everyone quit b4 the 530 riftsplitter boss and me and this other dude were alone and 2 doors still unopen...1hr 40min waste =p most of the time you can speed up a slow group

 

Thiers too many people that ragequit after dieing at levers or dieing to a combo from monsters if in begining a regroup is prob better but if its far in....its just annoying as that one or two deaths is not going to hurt your exp that much if your that far in...but thier is only one instance where a mime prevented us from completing boss so usually that one person doesnt effect the teams chance of completing dungeon unless a maxed player quits and noone else is maxed and noone else has the levels to find critical boss paths.

I'm entirely sure you're ok leaving a team that thinks its wrong to gatestone, anyone that stupid won't have access to any list, with good reason.

[Drakrono]

How might I find one of these organizations that keep these lists? I feel like it would really help...

[Squisher_33]

ive never bound ammo before, do u have to keep 1 arrow left and alch 124 or can you alch all 125 and go down to 0 left and still have them be bound?

[TheAncient]

ive never bound ammo before, do u have to keep 1 arrow left and alch 124 or can you alch all 125 and go down to 0 left and still have them be bound?

 

You don't need to alch all 125. Just alch 60-70 and it should be enough.

I think you can go down to 0 but I wouldn't risk it.