Space

[The_Mather1]

Retech, this isn't math, it's basic electronics, current can't be invalid and existing.

 

An analogy would be a waterpipe, the electrical resistance is equivalent to the resistance the water faces when going through it, if there is no resistance at all the water flows through it at an infinite rate, because if the water is can travel trough a space that is not limited in any way, then all will go at once, no matter how much there is and as such the current is infinite.

 

 

Drake, no resistance = no "friction", no "friction" = no heat.

∞²*0=0

[Corvus]

Retech, this isn't math, it's basic electronics, current can't be invalid and existing.

 

An analogy would be a waterpipe, the electrical resistance is equivalent to the resistance the water faces when going through it, if there is no resistance at all the water flows through it at an infinite rate, because if the water is can travel trough a space that is not limited in any way, then all will go at once, no matter how much there is and as such the current is infinite.

 

 

Drake, no resistance = no "friction", no "friction" = no heat.

∞²*0=0

Always nice using the wrong equation to attempt to disprove data, perhaps this one will explain it better (note the second equation):

[archimage_a]

Sigh.

You need a core:

The use of a magnetic core can enormously concentrate the strength and increase the effect of magnetic fields produced by electric currents and permanent magnets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core

 

 

 

 

 

Also you show a basic misunderstanding of how electricity works, I will now show you how your system doesn't work:

 

Imagine you have a 2 volt battery. You connect this battery to an inverter, making it AC. You then attach a silver cable to the inverter.

I=V/R

So 2/0.000000016 = 125,000,000 Amps.

We then step this up, through 1 to 125,000,000 (Or some multiple of that) turns.

Generating 1 Amp and 250,000,000 Volts.

We then check the Wattage, it is 250,000,000.

 

Then we attach another siver cable to it, which resets the Amps to Unknown...Somehow.

I=V/R

So 250,000,000/0.000000016 = 15,625,000,000,000,000 Amps.

We then step this up, through a 1 to 15,625,000,000,000,000 turn transformer (or some multiple).

Generating 1 Amp and 3,906,250,000,000,000,000,000,000 Volts.

We then check the Wattage, it is 3,906,250,000,000,000,000,000,000.

 

 

Now...Since perpetual motion and perpetual energy are still considered to be unrealistic...we can safely assume that this is not how electricity works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So how do we define the number of Amps we start with?

 

Well, the obvious solution is the number of Watts in the system, divided by the number of Volts, which is a rearrangement of V*I=W.

So if there are 100 Watts to start with, and 100 Volts, the system, therefore, has 1 Amp.

 

So lets see how this fares in the INFINATE ENERGY MACHINE!

Imagine you have a 2 Volt, 2 Watt Battery. You connect this battery to an inverter, making it AC. You then attach a silver cable to the inverter.

I=W/V

I=1

We then step this up, through 1 to 125,000,000 (Or some multiple of that) turns.

Generating 0.000000008 Amps and 250,000,000 Volts.

 

Then we attach another silver cable to it.

The number of Amps are already known, no need to figure it out again. Lets check the number of watts...

V*I=W

W=2

We then step this up, through a 1 to 15,625,000,000,000,000 turn transformer (or some multiple).

Generating 0.000000000000000000000000512 Amps and 3,906,250,000,000,000,000,000,000 Volts.

 

Lets check the Wattage:

Thats amazing, its 2...Still.

 

 

 

 

So we have:

Ohmic-Infinate Power Generator on the one hand...not supported by any experimental evidence.

Or, on the other hand, we have Watt-Finate Power Generator...Which is supported by all experimental evidence so far...

 

 

 

 

So, clearly, you have misunderstood how current works.

[The_Mather1]

Archi, the current is (100/≈0) ∞A before step up, and (∞/320,000) ∞A after. It is quite simple, because a superconductor has no valid effect because there is no heating.

 

I'd prefer not to ask one of my teachers to spell it out to you. But as a superconductor has no resistance, it has infinite current, you could change the wire to be a semi-conductor, but at this level of voltage it'd have to be made of mercury to be close to 1A even at 125m lenght. (125m of 1mm² mercure wire would have 120Ω, so it would actually mean 0,83A, but that was the closest I could find. But what idiot would make a wire out of a poorly conductive metal that isn't even solid?)

[Retech]

Math is everything. If you are trying to prove something using mathematics, at least use it correctly, or not at all. It would be more accurate to stating that it is 100 divided by an infintesimal value, but dividing by 0 is undefined.

 

You will not defile math in my presence!

[archimage_a]

STEPPING UP HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RESISTANCE!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer#Ideal_power_equation

 

 

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

 

*Scores with the words 'If the voltage is increased, then the current is decreased by the same factor.' into Mather's Forehead*

[Retech]

One is not the next number up from zero.

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[The_Mather1]

Archi, the stepping up is not what is limiting the original current, the resistance of the first primary coil is, and without resistance the amperage is infinite and thus stays infinite in the secondary coil.

 

Retech, dividing by zero has an answer, we are just not capable of understanding it. But as we are not the most accurate representation is zero, as logic sais, and since this is a practical use of math, standard rules made to prevent headaches are ommited, because guess what, the laws of physics don't care squat about what we comprehend.

[archimage_a]

Mather, get your teacher to explain what a Watt is.

 

I have zero interest in the resistance of the wire because it is entirely inconsequential.

The only thing that actually matters is the number of watts you start with.

 

Make special referance to the Voltage*Current = Watts part of conversation.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and respond to my posts otherwise I will stop reading yours....I do not appreciate specifying how your system doesn't work, to have you then restate your system without invalidating any of the flaws I specified.

[Nexaduro]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Mather, you need to stop driving the GM insane. You want a working, electricity-based weapon? BLITZ. JUST TAKE ONE FOR GOD'S SAKE.

[Seraphi]

Mather, this isn't funny anymore... Can you please just concede the point?

[Retech]

Archi, the stepping up is not what is limiting the original current, the resistance of the first primary coil is, and without resistance the amperage is infinite and thus stays infinite in the secondary coil.

 

Retech, dividing by zero has an answer, we are just not capable of understanding it. But as we are not the most accurate representation is zero, as logic sais, and since this is a practical use of math, standard rules made to prevent headaches are ommited, because guess what, the laws of physics don't care squat about what we comprehend.

 

If we cannot comprehend it, then don't use it in your answer. If the greatest mathematicians in the world cannot comprehend the number, then I feel it is safe to assume that you cannot comprehend the number, so don't try to assign an arbitrary value for it and move from there. EVERYTHING AFTER THAT IS FLAWED.

 

Everytime something is divided by zero and a real number is outputted, I die a little inside.

[The_Mather1]

Archi, you only start with Voltage and Ohms, then from those you calculate Amperage and then Wattage, that is the order in which things are known, unless it is directly powered by a power supply then the Amperage is unknown, and as we have capacitors (the second most important component in a tesla coil) the power supply does in no way limit the Amperage.

If we start a simulation, what happens at first is that there is 100V charging the capacitor with an unimportant current, when the capacitor is fully charge, it the trigger is pulled, 100V are passing through a coil with 0Ω which results in ∞A and thus ∞W that is expended on nothing. Those ∞W are kept over the step up, which means that as the Voltage rises to 32MV, the current remains ∞A.

 

Is that simple enough for you? No Resistance = infinite Amperage, infinite Amperage + existing Voltage = infinite Wattage. Not my idea to turn the amperage infinite, you were the one who said we were using superconductors.

 

In math: 100V/0Ω=∞A, 100V*∞A=∞W.

 

 

Retech, we cannot comprehend the theory of dividing by zero, in practical use it outputs infinity. Also infinity is not a real number.

 

 

 

This shows why you should not use superconductors unless you know their properties. Also:

Superconductors are also able to maintain a current with no applied voltage whatsoever, a property exploited in superconducting electromagnets such as those found in MRI machines. Experiments have demonstrated that currents in superconducting coils can persist for years without any measurable degradation. Experimental evidence points to a current lifetime of at least 100,000 years. Theoretical estimates for the lifetime of a persistent current can exceed the estimated lifetime of the universe, depending on the wire geometry and the temperature.

[Seraphi]

My cries fall on deaf ears, apparently.

[The_Mather1]

Ross, I'm not going to let Archi rape the physics of something which he insists to use.

[Seraphi]

Err... Weren't you the one who was insisting on using it in the first place?

[archimage_a]

In your simulation:

Voltage and Amps go into capacitor...Then the Amps are magicked away...Care to explain how this is accomplished?

 

 

Sure, you don't care about the amps, but they must 'go' somewhere?

[The_Mather1]

I proposed a Tesla gun, he said it was impossible, I proved it possible. He limited amperage, I showed him why the limit was off. He set the material to be superconductive, I told him that would make the amperage unlimited. He tells me that the wattage is more important, I showed that infinite aperage means infinite wattage.

 

Archi, amperage don't go anywhere, they're the speed of the voltage. The capacitor is filled and becomes a powersource of its own, as it has no resistance, it releases voltage as fast as it can once the switch is flipped. As there is no resistance elsewhere the voltage moves at infinite speed, so while the amperage is infinite, the time of the charge is infinithecimal.

[archimage_a]

I proposed a Tesla gun, he said it was impossible, I proved it possible. He limited amperage, I showed him why the limit was off. He set the material to be superconductive, I told him that would make the amperage unlimited. He tells me that the wattage is more important, I showed that infinite aperage means infinite wattage.

 

 

You didn't prove it possible.

You didn't show why the limit was off.

I said an ideal material, ignoring the resistive losses.

Wattage was always more important, Ohms have never been important in working out Volts or Current.

[Retech]

in practical use it outputs infinity.

 

 

No, it doesn't.

 

Theoretical IS practical. There is only rounding, which is what you are trying to do here, but it is not exactly working. If I was Archi, I would throw out the entire theory just because of that part.

[The_Mather1]

Archi, I proved that they can deliver charges at a distance.

I showed you that you were way off according to Ohm's law.

 

Ohm's law is more important than wattage, as the effect is unknown to us until we know the current.

 

Retech, learn electrics, now!

 

EDIT: Here: http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslawcalculators.asp

Put current as 100 and resistance as 0 in the third one down click =.

 

EDIT2: Actually, try any online Ohm's law calculator, they all agree with me.

[archimage_a]

The current I(t) through any component in an electric circuit is defined as the rate of flow of a charge q(t) passing through it, but actual charges, electrons, cannot pass through the dielectric layer of a capacitor, rather an electron accumulates on the negative plate for each one that leaves the positive plate, resulting in an electron depletion and consequent positive charge on one electrode that is equal and opposite to the accumulated negative charge on the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor#Current-voltage_relation

 

The current stays the same either side of the capacitor.

The Capacitor only stores voltage.

 

Ergo the 'new' Ampage doesn't need to be calculated, since it is still known.

 

 

 

 

 

Its really quite obvious, since current has to flow around the entire circuit otherwise the voltage wouldn't flow.

[The_Mather1]

The capacitor is a temporary medium for storage of energy, as it charges, it does not affect current, but if an alternative route around the capacitor is opened, the entire built-up charge will flow through that, resulting in a much higher amperage and overall charge than if there was no capacitor.

The capacitor is like a rechargable battery, only way faster. If you put a piece of metal over a gap where there was 100 volts in between, there wouldn't even a spark, however add 400mF of capacitors between there in parallel and let them charge for a few seconds and repeat; bang, flashbang to the face.

[Nexaduro]

I can set a flashbang explosion in your face too, without a complicated Tesla coil or even a flashbang. The way I see it, infinite anything is impossible (or infinitely improbable) with finite resources. I would also bring up, once again, the fact that this device serves no concievable purpose in combat against pretty much any current combat technology. It might just be able to do something to someone piloting a Kinesis Gear, for example, but those sorts of devices don't see wide use and someone in a Kinesis Gear almost certainly has some sort of countermeasure.

[The_Mather1]

Nex, Amperage is not a something, it is a speed, the amperage is how many electrons are passing a plane per second divided by a few billion, infinite amperage just means the entire charge moves across the wire in an infinithesimal amount of seconds. Besically the very moment there is conection, the entire charge has passed.