Exclusive Content

[Kimberly]

That argument has more holes than a swiss cheese slice. Do you mean to tell me that extremes and overloads would be less desired because they'd be tradable?

The items itself would obviously have a lot of desire. However, actually training yourself up for the requirement to make extremes and overloads... then THAT would have no desire.

 

Making elite items untradable gives players incentives to train their skills up really high to reap the benefits of elite gear.

 

I can understand that a bit better, but I don't believe that the incentive would disappear if its tradable, especially with such potent items as those from herblore. Still, I'll concede defeat because that's getting too much into the grey area of efficiency, etc to even speculate on.

[All_Is_Great]

I don't get why everything has to do with combat in the end.

[Youmu]

I don't get why everything has to do with combat in the end.

Because in the end, combat is what ultimately matters. Just look at all bosses + frost dragons + PvP right now...

 

Skilling has been shunned, hunter, mining, runecrafting, and farming especially. The only reason you should ever be using these for money is if you can't do combat for whatever reason (lag, you're a skiller, not high enough combats).

 

The only way to fix skilling right now is to integrate it into elite-level combat. And it has to be ELITE-ONLY, like herblore and extremes.

[green9090]

I can understand that a bit better, but I don't believe that the incentive would disappear if its tradable, especially with such potent items as those from herblore. Still, I'll concede defeat because that's getting too much into the grey area of efficiency, etc to even speculate on.

Look at the price of saradomin brew (3).

 

Now look at the price of toadflax + crushed nest + vial.

 

That's why the content needs to be untradable.

[Kimberly]

By that justification all things related to skilling should be untradable because they might make you lose money. Something about that just doesn't sound enjoyable for an MMORPG.

[green9090]

By that justification all things related to skilling should be untradable because they might make you lose money. Something about that just doesn't sound enjoyable for an MMORPG.

You're right. Let's just make all skills worthless instead.

 

The only reason people train herblore is untradable potions. I can guarantee you it wouldn't work that way if the potions were tradable.

[SirIzenhime]

By that justification all things related to skilling should be untradable because they might make you lose money. Something about that just doesn't sound enjoyable for an MMORPG.

 

No...we make the high level stuff, that people actually worked for, untradable, so they're more exclusive and actually worth training.

But keep the lower level items tradable, so they remain in the market.

[Kimberly]

By that justification all things related to skilling should be untradable because they might make you lose money. Something about that just doesn't sound enjoyable for an MMORPG.

You're right. Let's just make all skills worthless instead.

 

The only reason people train herblore is untradable potions. I can guarantee you it wouldn't work that way if the potions were tradable.

 

So no one trained herblore before that?

 

By that justification all things related to skilling should be untradable because they might make you lose money. Something about that just doesn't sound enjoyable for an MMORPG.

 

No...we make the high level stuff, that people actually worked for, untradable, so they're more exclusive and actually worth training.

But keep the lower level items tradable, so they remain in the market.

 

Okay, so you get more exclusive content, people get these ultra-hard to obtain items, they use it to make money 5x faster than a normal player could, and then what? Raw material still becomes easier to obtain over time, you've got more money to blow on these already rock-bottom things, and the cycle repeats. Untradable content, which it will inflate the desire to train skills other for a sense of achievement, doesn't change the skill or the reason why skills fail overall. It doesn't really fix what people are complaining about, does it?

 

Seems to me like these potions and high level pouches (two prime examples of exclusive content) are more untradable not because they're high-level, but because of their effects on combat. That certainly doesn't answer the call for reform in any other, non-combat based skill. There's a fundamental flaw in demanding everything be untradable, because not all skills involve combat, and unless things change, combat's always going to be the best way to make money. Untradable skills that are actually just for skilling won't make you money, therefore even if they did make a lvl 99 fire that you could light and you could only obtain the logs through 99 wc, both being untradable, no one would like it.

 

Let's face it, people like money. You can't make money in non-combat skills when they're untradable. And even tradable isn't a guarantee for moneymaking. Look at how double-natures have devalued over time. The biggest underlying problem that absolutely won't be fixed is that the game can't keep up with how fast this game pushes out content.

[SirIzenhime]

Could you please quote me where I said they had to help combat?

Something untradable made with one skill could make another skill faster, better money, easier to train. You seem to assume exclusive content is only intended for combat.

 

Hey, if they can find a way to make something exclusive, while also increasing the profitably of other skills, that's great, I won't complain just because it didn't help me kill that Dragon faster.

[Kimberly]

What....? I never even implied you said that. I said simply that if this elite content you're asking for was untradable it would be pointless unless it helped you made money. Combat's the best way to make money and always will be for the foreseeable future. Best way to make money via skilling if it doesn't affect combat is by selling what you produce.

 

And I just re-read my post and I didn't even see me implying that you demanded skills untradable had to help combat, so I don't know if you didn't read closely enough or if I was that poor in communicating my point. Can you, via pm, point out to me what confused you so I can fix my post? Sorry for the hassle.

[Viv]

moneymaking via just skilling is dead ;S

 

reason - too many have 99s

something needs multiple 99s to even be a good moneymaker..

 

almost 1k have all 99s tbh bossing accually takes focus/skill..and frost takes some patients at least...

 

 

also imo effigies if u couldnt get them if u couldnt open them would be exclusive content or if they couldnt be assisted....but as they are now they are just helping people get levels that would be more exclusive

 

dungeoneering 120 is a pretty exclusive content...u have to make netwoekr with othe high lvl dgneers and be decent at dungeoneering to get that up..

 

but its pretty damn fast almost 100 people have 120 now..

[Sir_Kurity]

There are already a lot of skills that affect combat, though I see what you're trying to say. That rune worn by melee whip'ers was smithed by someone, the food caught by someone, the gem in their necklace cut and forged by someone. Everything affects your ability to survive in small degrees that, if they were completely kept separate, would have some really big implications on the game.

 

Yea, thats tradable though. If i want some awesome shield, i can get some other smither to smith it for me and i can buy it off them. I'm fine with that, every skill is somewhat connected (and support combat)

 

What i don't want is having this untradable awesome x-item. I can't buy it from someone else, i can't even do a reasonably fun quest for it. Nope, i need to get such and such amount of money, grind x skill for tens, maybe hundreds of hours, and THEN get the item.

 

Why can't i just buy it off someone? Is there some magical force that prevents potion makers from giving away there wares?

 

Agreed. Some people think they can force a game to be custom tailored to them.

 

How is this any different from people like green demanding exclusive content for them and other high level grinders.

 

Head out of ass please.

[Youmu]

How is this any different from people like green demanding exclusive content for them and other high level grinders.

 

Head out of ass please.

Because unlike being an elite-level, where ALL your levels are in the high-90s, pures have limitations like that crappy 1 def people love talking about.

 

The game CAN be custom-tailored to meet the deeds of the elite, since ANYONE can get those requirements. However, because pures/skillers/etc are purposely limiting themselves one way or another, there is literally NO reason for the game to be custom-tailored to them.

[Sir_Kurity]

However, because pures/skillers/etc are purposely limiting themselves one way or another, there is literally NO reason for the game to be custom-tailored to them.

 

I've never wanted it to be tailored to pures/skillers, just to be tailored to the majority, who ARENT elite level, and probably never will be. Simply because of the way runescape is designed.

 

Seriously, 13 mill XP is too much.

 

The game CAN be custom-tailored to meet the deeds of the elite, since ANYONE can get those requirements.

 

Wrong, not everyone has the time commitment or the extreme tolerance to boredom required to get to "elite" level.

[green9090]

Agreed. Some people think they can force a game to be custom tailored to them.

 

How is this any different from people like green demanding exclusive content for them and other high level grinders.

 

Head out of ass please.

Because there's a strong precedent for leveling up having advantages in the RPG genre in general, and in this game specifically (see: herblore). What you're saying is that you want this game to function differently from other RPGs in that leveling up should be largely worthless. In other words, you're lazy.

 

There are games for people like you, but this is not one of them. Stop clinging to a sinking ship and either get used to how this game works and will work, or play something else. You're doing nothing but attempting to hold the game back because you want it to be something it's not.

 

Edit:

Wrong, not every has the time commitment or the extreme tolerance to boredom required to get to "elite" level.

And not everyone has the reflexes for first person shooters or the brains for puzzle games, and some people get motion sickness that makes flight simulators unpleasant.

 

Should we just make all video games bland because people have disabilities that prevent them from doing certain things? No, people who can't handle certain games can play other ones. Kids with ADHD can play something besides RS.

[Obtaurian]

How is this any different from people like green demanding exclusive content for them and other high level grinders.

 

Head out of ass please.

 

Lmao, logic fail. We're arguing that there should be content tailored to players of ALL levels, including the most elite of players. lrn2read and at least attempt to use your brain.

[Youmu]

Wrong, not everyone has the time commitment or the extreme tolerance to boredom required to get to "elite" level.

But the opportunity to become elite is still there, no?

 

Myself, I started waaaaay late, can only play on weekends/holidays, get into other games for a bit, and cannot become a member atm. But if I actually had the time commitment, I would train myself up in a heartbeat. I'm pretty sure the most people who aren't elite, but WANT to be elite, have some sort of reason similar to mine, which explains why they aren't elite right now.

 

Also, fun is subjective. I personally find training every single skill and playing every single activity/minigame fun, because of the things you do AND there's clan chat/friends/people near you to cheer you up.

 

But let's not get into this any further. There needs to be elite-level content for all skills, period. No reason not to.

 

And by the way, 13m xp isn't THAT much. With the consistent updates Jagex gives us, 13m xp is muuuuuuch easier than back in the old days. Then again, I started way late and am f2p so I don't have any 99's.

[Sir_Kurity]

Because there's a strong precedent for leveling up having advantages in the RPG genre in general, and in this game specifically (see: herblore). What you're saying is that you want this game to function differently from other RPGs in that leveling up should be largely worthless. In other words, you're lazy.

 

Yea, im not disagreeing that skills should be useful, but they should be useful in other ways.

 

RPG's in general allow you to build your character as you see fit. If you don't want to smith your own sword, you can buy it off someone else. If you don't want to fight you can run around smithing swords and sell them to your fellow adventurers. ETC.

 

There should not be random untradable combat supplements added to every skill just to make it seem useful. There are other ways of making a skill useful.

 

There are games for people like you, but this is not one of them. Stop clinging to a sinking ship and either get used to how this game works and will work, or play something else. You're doing nothing but attempting to hold the game back because you want it to be something it's not.

 

The game doesn't work like that, yet, seeing as theres only one skill with the untradable combat rewards at an extremely high level.

 

I'm hoping it never does, the RPG genre doesn't or shouldnt compel the training of all skills, but specialisation. You should be able to specialise but still be good at what you do, without needing an arbitary seperate skill.

[Sir_Squab]

Meh, i've noticed the occasional higher yield as my levels have gone up, that I never got as a lower level.

 

That's because you spend way more time being a higher level than a lower level. You hardly grow any herbs as a level 50- because leveling happens so fast, so of course you don't see the rarer high herb yields yet. Some people have, but it's rare, especially because lower levels also tend to do things like not use supercompost (which does have an effect on yield).

 

Herblore - Great content from the low 80s to the high 90s. Perfect skill.

I'm going to take issue with this one. Herblore is a perfect example of a skill with great high-level content, but a dearth of low-level content. Beginner-level herblore today is practically the same as it was in RSC. There's nothing in the skill to get beginners started, creating a significant barrier to entry. As a result, new members just don't train herblore. The skill is seriously lacking in introductory content; it needs something to convince new players that they should be training it in the first place. This is a big problem for farming and some other skills as well.

 

This is part of what I was talking about when I said there has to be content for all levels.

Herblore has quest requirements up to the 60s I believe (what was WGS again?). It could maybe use a couple more quests pushing herblore requirements up into the low 80s, but it's decent as it is now. People who train it are heavily rewarded, which is a lot more than you can say for most skills.

 

Except for quests and maybe diaries, herblore is entirely useless and AND a large money sink until like 84. Now, if NO potions were tradeable, herblore would be very useful, and useful right from the get-go. Not that Jagex could implement that now, just saying...

 

Yeah the game is made to be custom tailored to us regular players.

 

Now, about the other skills, they really do need good, untradeable additions at 90+. Arrow-and-bolt-strengtheners (p+++) for fletching, more powerful imbued runes/staves for runecrafting, stolen pieces of very powerful gear for thieving, access to high-level areas for agility, adding on more healing food for cooking, catching rare species that are useful in combat for hunter, improving weapons and armor for smithing...

 

List goes on. The ULTIMATE solution is to connect every single skill to elite-level combat.

 

The only con is that every single skill (and yes, EVERY SINGLE SKILL) would become another prayer/herblore. But who cares? That's how the game is supposed to be. Would make 99s actual accomplishments.

 

I'm in favour of that, but the problem is, I DON'T want to see other skills like herblore - horrendously expensive and essentially useless until you start getting some very high levels. (See above.)

 

Because there's a strong precedent for leveling up having advantages in the RPG genre in general, and in this game specifically (see: herblore). What you're saying is that you want this game to function differently from other RPGs in that leveling up should be largely worthless. In other words, you're lazy.

 

Yea, im not disagreeing that skills should be useful, but they should be useful in other ways.

 

RPG's in general allow you to build your character as you see fit. If you don't want to smith your own sword, you can buy it off someone else. If you don't want to fight you can run around smithing swords and sell them to your fellow adventurers. ETC.

 

There should not be random untradable combat supplements added to every skill just to make it seem useful. There are other ways of making a skill useful.

 

There are games for people like you, but this is not one of them. Stop clinging to a sinking ship and either get used to how this game works and will work, or play something else. You're doing nothing but attempting to hold the game back because you want it to be something it's not.

 

The game doesn't work like that, yet, seeing as theres only one skill with the untradable combat rewards at an extremely high level.

 

I'm hoping it never does, the RPG genre doesn't or shouldnt compel the training of all skills, but specialisation. You should be able to specialise but still be good at what you do, without needing an arbitary seperate skill.

 

Yeah, but if everything is tradeable, no one is realy rewarded for skilling. With the GE and skillcapes, the way the game functions and the way the game is played means that without untradeable potions, herblore would be almost as dead as firemaking. A useless skill that burns money, need for a few quests. Yes, I understand the argument of not NEEDING to level certain skills, but on the other hand, the skills should be USEFUL somehow, no? Pre GE/skillcapes, I found the skills herblore/fishing/cooking because being self sufficient was so much easier then trying to buy stuff. (Others might argue this however.) Also, a lot more of the skilling being done WAS done more on the basis of usefulness rather then just getting levels - getting 81 herblore for brews, for example. Pre-GE days I could understand overloads and such being tradeable, because a lack of centralized AFKable training made being a Do-It-Yourselfer much more useful.

 

To sum up that paragraph, how many people get their fishing and cooking up in order to fish/cook rocktails? No one, it's easier to buy them; skillcapes increases the amount of people doing skilling, increasing the amount of people making rocktails beyond the amount of supply meeting demand, so that it becomes a horrible money-maker.

 

Oh, and specialization doesn't work in a game where you can use, train and max every skill. Basically, specializing in a few skills doesn't work with a game mechanic that allows you to specialize in ALL of them.

[green9090]

Because there's a strong precedent for leveling up having advantages in the RPG genre in general, and in this game specifically (see: herblore). What you're saying is that you want this game to function differently from other RPGs in that leveling up should be largely worthless. In other words, you're lazy.

 

Yea, im not disagreeing that skills should be useful, but they should be useful in other ways.

 

RPG's in general allow you to build your character as you see fit. If you don't want to smith your own sword, you can buy it off someone else. If you don't want to fight you can run around smithing swords and sell them to your fellow adventurers. ETC.

I can't think of a game where this holds true.

 

Look at Morrowind, for example. You can get crappy potions from NPCs but the ones you make yourself through alchemy are WAY WAY better. Your athletics skill, while not directly combat-related, helps keep your fatigue up, which means easier fighting. Sneaking is supplemental to combat in that you can sneak up on things and kill them more easily as a result, but most of its uses are outside of combat. Etc. Etc. To become as powerful as possible, you'll have to train all of your skills.

 

Name an RPG that has both combat and content outside of combat that doesn't provide you with a reason to train the noncombat stuff, either to earn money or to enhance your combat in another way. I really doubt this exists.

[strilmus]

I think he's mostly referring to MMOs, because a lot of conventional RPGs don't include a crafting system, or hide the best stuff in the back of the tough dungeons.

 

Of course, in RS the best stuff is found from the tough bosses, but it's been arbitrarily limited in distribution by high rarity.

 

The point stands, though, that a lot of materials are found through combat, and buying materials from other people usually costs more than what you would make when you turn them into an item, due to the fact that crafting is almost always way easier and not as risky than combat.

 

There are not a lot of RPG type games that offer meaningful noncombat roles that are independent of combat. They tend to remind people of their real life jobs too much, or are considered way too easy or boring.

[Zierro]

How you guys are deducing that Sir Kurity is affected by his own lazy conflict of interest is well beyond me. No one is forcing the game to fit their custom preference any more than the next guy.

 

Lmao, logic fail. We're arguing that there should be content tailored to players of ALL levels, including the most elite of players.

 

Which is our personal preference on how the game should be.

[strilmus]

You're telling me that some people would rather not have content?

[Obtaurian]

You're telling me that some people would rather not have content?

 

Yes, do tell. I have yet to see a reasonable argument against having content for players of all levels other than "BUT I DUN WANNAAA PLAY DA R00NSCAPES@@@".

[Zierro]

I haven't seen anyone arguing that there should be no content. However, I have seen the argument that skills and combat should be treated as non-complementary/separate aspects of the game. I don't agree with this, but it is pretty funny seeing how many people are jumping down his throat for "forcing the game to fit his own custom tailoring because he's lazy".

 

By that logic, so are we.