Tip.It Times - 23rd January 2011

[Racheya]

Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

 

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

 

[hide=Read these rules before posting in this thread]

Rampant flame wars have taken control of virtually every week's times discussion topics. The following guidelines must be followed when posting on this topic. Posts that ignore these guidelines will be removed.

 

1. You are invited and welcome to express like or dislike on articles and a particular author's writing style. It is not acceptable, however, to flame or personally insult an author. Posts that aren't anything but an attack will be removed from the topic.

 

2. Spelling and grammar errors can be reported to Racheya by PMing her and they will be fixed promptly. It is not necessary to post them on the discussion topic.

 

3. Off topic posts that do not discuss the content of that week's articles will be removed. This is not the place to discuss the direction of the times, how much you love or hate the times, etc. Off topic posts will be removed.

 

By keeping within these guidelines, Times discussion topics will mean more for the Panel and Administration than just a place for flame wars. Flame wars do not provide any useful feedback to the Times, which is mainly what we're aiming for with these topics: feedback.

 

This policy is effective as of now, November 17, 2010. Any posts prior to the creation of this policy may or may not be removed according to the new guidelines.

[/hide]

 

When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

 

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

 

Enjoy the articles!

[ForsakenMage]

First Article

I have my doubts about how well this update will go through as well, especially because of all the changes that have taken place in the past three years while the wilderness was "dead." Yes they've already said they'll move things as appropriate, but one can't help but to think that something will get bugged. I'm not expecting Jagex to be perfect 100%, but for an update this large, it better be damn close.

Second Article

Oh the memories of the old Wilderness! I wonder if people will remember how to run between the trees to get their pursuers stuck. :twisted: I honestly don't think it's going to be much different from the current set up other than the drops, and that the people will be a bit more spread out across the worlds. EP was something that definitely annoyed me too as an old PKer trying to get into the new mode. I mean, what was the point of risking even 200k if chances are I'll only get maybe 20k in the end? >.<'

[Rsvote]

First article (Racheya): Entirely logical, sensical and well explained overview of the situation and the extent of it's significance. Though I dispute the claim that "RWT was reduced"; I do not think so, it just went from a market in a sort of perfect competition state to a market based upon several oligopolies. I think after the initial muck up, Jagex's behaviour has been well calculated (including in their decision to not split the vote; http://rsvote.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/the-reasons-for-not-splitting-the-vote/) and I suppose I'm hopeful their implementation of the changes will be equally well calculated, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Second article: Cute. EP is indeed infuriating, as are the drops which introduce far too much ruddy money into the game.

[Big_Stingman]

First Article:

 

Even though coding is not just an "on and off switch," Jagex does have an entire team dedicated to these sorts of things. I have faith in them. Can't wait until Feb. 1st!

[999134]

you lost 7 gravite 2hs :shock:

[sees_all1]

you lost 7 gravite 2hs :shock:

#8 was today :oops:

[brunokiller]

you lost 7 gravite 2hs :shock:

#8 was today :oops:

Maybe you should get a setup in which you can protect them :thumbup:

 

1 feb is going to be an interesting day..

[sees_all1]

you lost 7 gravite 2hs :shock:

#8 was today :oops:

Maybe you should get a setup in which you can protect them :thumbup:

 

1 feb is going to be an interesting day..

Now where's the fun in that? I only use G2h's in full armour fights in pvp worlds where the loot is generally better. Unfortunately, there is no +1, and my lag is unpredictable. <_<

[Jonanananas]

First article: Very good and logical, and shows how meaningless this whole poll even was. It was indeed just a PR stunt, and one of those little signs that show me that Jagex is not quite the perfect company I'd like them to be.

 

 

Second article: Excellently writting, I could really understand how you feel about the return of the old wild even though I cannot stand PKing at all for myself. :thumbup:

[A_Fiasco]

1st article: I think that Jagex, will probably perform some parts of this update seamlessly and others will be a total misfire (I agree Gamers' Grotto? Sounds like a Xmas event gone wrong..) Yet strangely, I have faith that Jagex has taken a step to re-vitalise Runescape, which is odd since I've heard so many rumours of RS coming to its end :(

 

2nd article: You make it sound like the Wilderness was a place filled with Mongol Nomads! ruthlessly hunting for free l00ts! :rolleyes: I PKed once, and died.. I quit after that :P Loved this article! Pleasant to read with some topical substance at the end (Summarising the pants drop system is always good!)

 

Bravo both articles! :thumbsup:

[Doomster]

With 20:20 hindsight, the poll was pure spin, would have been a shock if it had gone any other way, and if they'd already put considerable work into planning, would they have been prepared to drop it?

 

They'd better have their anti-bot strategy well tuned, or legitimate woodcutters and miners will once more be frozen out by the bots.

 

They are going to have to squeeze abusive IP ranges until the pips squeak.

[uath13]

I've already noticed an increase in the number of bots. They're already building up the Gp for transfer when the free trade returns. If Jagex could handle them why haven't they already?

[Foodfight13]

Worst mistake ever by Jagex to bring it back. You don't need to fix something that's not broken. The poll and referendum was complete cabbage.

[Will H]

Worst mistake ever by Jagex to bring it back. You don't need to fix something that's not broken. The poll and referendum was complete cabbage.

 

RWT still happens. It's broken. Your argument is invalid.

 

...I've wanted to say that for a while now.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in response to the first article, you've managed to sum up my thoughts very well. The question is, what should have Jagex done instead?

[waheera1]

So... Who remembers the Falador Massacre...?! I for one won't be logging in for a few days after the update comes...!

 

In all seriousness, it's nice that people are excited about the return of the wild, but it wouldn't have done any harm to get a competent author to write about the problems it may bring. I know that many of us will have worked it out already, so it wouldn't necessarily be the best-received article ever, but it might just open peoples' eyes to what is coming.

 

I've got a lot of friends who are seriously thinking about quitting when the gold farmers come storming back. I find it hard not to be sceptical about Jagex's new-found ability to curb it, so I think there could come a rather rude awakening for the optimists on re-release day...

 

Specifics on the articles:

1st: Another thought for you - it is quite possible that Jagex have planned the re-release for months or years, merely using the poll results to back up the whole "well, you decided it" argument. It is also quite possible that they could have completed fabricated the results, though I don't believe they would stoop that low. I for one don't think it's going to do the game much good in the long term, but I liked the game before the G.E. and trade limits, I'm sure I'll survive the return to normal service!

 

2nd: I'd be curious to know if the author has made much money out of the current pvp system. Not because it would in any way invalidate the article, I just find it interesting to know the mentality of a community to which I clearly don't belong. (I've never once pked seriously, nor felt the urge to try). I'm glad the author dislikes the current pvp system - I have hated the stupid influx of wealth Jagex created. I realise I've rambled a bit here, but I basically enjoyed the article and it did make pking sound somewhat more entertaining than I'd ever thought possible.

[sees_all1]

In all seriousness, it's nice that people are excited about the return of the wild, but it wouldn't have done any harm to get a competent author to write about the issues it may bring. I know that many of us will have worked it out already, so it wouldn't be the best received article ever, but it might just open peoples' eyes to what is coming.

By all means, write one yourself and submit it to us. Who knows, you may even find yourself featured in the near future.

 

 

EDIT:

2nd: I'd be curious to know if the author has made much money out of the current pvp system.

I think my average has been about 5m in wealth for every gravite weapon lost, so 40m? I've gotten corrupt d-scim drops twice, and a cba once. The rest of that was mostly rune armour (quite a few kills :wink: ).

[uath13]

Worst mistake ever by Jagex to bring it back. You don't need to fix something that's not broken. The poll and referendum was complete cabbage.

 

RWT still happens. It's broken. Your argument is invalid.

 

...I've wanted to say that for a while now.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in response to the first article, you've managed to sum up my thoughts very well. The question is, what should have Jagex done instead?

 

 

Ok, then you don;t break it even worse. :shame:

[Rsvote]

Worst mistake ever by Jagex to bring it back. You don't need to fix something that's not broken. The poll and referendum was complete cabbage.

 

RWT still happens. It's broken. Your argument is invalid.

 

...I've wanted to say that for a while now.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in response to the first article, you've managed to sum up my thoughts very well. The question is, what should have Jagex done instead?

 

 

Ok, then you don;t break it even worse. :shame:

 

Impossible to do so. With the trade limit system you can not track the majority of RWTers, with free trade they'll be able to be picked up by the radar again as the trade limit methods (a lot of which centre around manipulation clans) will no longer function.

 

Further, yes the current system is broken. The original change was the biggest injustice Runescape has ever witnessed; the majority of players were punished due to Jagex's inability to deal with the offences of the few and to top that off, it doesn't work; if anything, it made the problem grow and harder to detect (complain about level 3s at yews? They're visible and detectable, the new manners of RWTing are mostly not).

[Foodfight13]

Worst mistake ever by Jagex to bring it back. You don't need to fix something that's not broken. The poll and referendum was complete cabbage.

 

RWT still happens. It's broken. Your argument is invalid.

 

...I've wanted to say that for a while now.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in response to the first article, you've managed to sum up my thoughts very well. The question is, what should have Jagex done instead?

 

 

Ok, then you don;t break it even worse. :shame:

 

Impossible to do so. With the trade limit system you can not track the majority of RWTers, with free trade they'll be able to be picked up by the radar again as the trade limit methods (a lot of which centre around manipulation clans) will no longer function.

 

Further, yes the current system is broken. The original change was the biggest injustice Runescape has ever witnessed; the majority of players were punished due to Jagex's inability to deal with the offenses of the few and to top that off, it doesn't work; if anything, it made the problem grow and harder to detect (complain about level 3s at yews? They're visible and detectable, the new manners of RWTing are mostly not).

 

What I meant wasn't broken was the wilderness. The wilderness is perfectly fine as it is. RWT very much still happens, but now they're just opening up the floodgates to let it be even more of a problem.

 

RSVote, you have no proof to your argument that RWT will be easier to catch. Yes Jagex said that, but can we really trust them? They're unleashing a huge update changing a lot of game code, and something is bound to be missed or go wrong knowing Jagex's history of getting it right the first time. Consider that Jagex said all of the following things:

"we stop bots, they improve their macros, we stop them, they improve again"

"If we don't break that vicious cycle now, it would just keep getting worse and worse"

"Every time we double our efforts, gold-sellers quadruple theirs. We can't continue only using our current methods, throwing more and more resources at it,"

"We realize removing unbalanced trade is a big deal, but we want to assure you that this change has not been taken lightly, that we've exhausted all the alternatives. We've tried countless ways to defeat real-world trading and considered many other options to end this problem this change was the only definite way to do so."

Quotes drawn from here

 

After acknowledging the above, do you really, really think that things have changed? Did Jagex miraculously learn how to stop all RWT forever over a couple of years? Will they be able to handle the multitude of accounts that will attempt to RWT once they pull the switch? I don't think so. You don't change the gun restriction laws to allow anybody to own any gun without any license just because the amount of murders and robberies goes down and the police have bigger guns.

 

Also, considering Jagex said that "All Customer Support teams combined, we're banning tens of thousands of accounts each week that belong to real-world traders," I would not consider the removal of wilderness a punishment for the majority based on the offenses of a minority. Hundreds of thousand of accounts is not a minority.

 

Throw in the huge publicity stunt to make it look like they genuinely considered the opinions of the "Runescape Community," which was performed horribly, and it turns the whole thing into a bunch of bullcabbage.

[Blyaunte]

So... Who remembers the Falador Massacre...?! I for one won't be logging in for a few days after the update comes...!

 

LOL! Me!

 

My opinion of Jagex's coding skills is notoriously low. Personally, I've considered taking a vacation day for Feb 1, just to see this update auger in -- but I'm not that keen to take a day off work just to sit at my computer and watch the game crash and burn to the ground ... :lol:

[Naraku893]

Jagex made a good decision finally.

[Rsvote]

Worst mistake ever by Jagex to bring it back. You don't need to fix something that's not broken. The poll and referendum was complete cabbage.

 

RWT still happens. It's broken. Your argument is invalid.

 

...I've wanted to say that for a while now.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in response to the first article, you've managed to sum up my thoughts very well. The question is, what should have Jagex done instead?

 

 

Ok, then you don;t break it even worse. :shame:

 

Impossible to do so. With the trade limit system you can not track the majority of RWTers, with free trade they'll be able to be picked up by the radar again as the trade limit methods (a lot of which centre around manipulation clans) will no longer function.

 

Further, yes the current system is broken. The original change was the biggest injustice Runescape has ever witnessed; the majority of players were punished due to Jagex's inability to deal with the offenses of the few and to top that off, it doesn't work; if anything, it made the problem grow and harder to detect (complain about level 3s at yews? They're visible and detectable, the new manners of RWTing are mostly not).

 

What I meant wasn't broken was the wilderness. The wilderness is perfectly fine as it is. RWT very much still happens, but now they're just opening up the floodgates to let it be even more of a problem.

 

RSVote, you have no proof to your argument that RWT will be easier to catch. Yes Jagex said that, but can we really trust them? They're unleashing a huge update changing a lot of game code, and something is bound to be missed or go wrong knowing Jagex's history of getting it right the first time. Consider that Jagex said all of the following things:

"we stop bots, they improve their macros, we stop them, they improve again"

"If we don't break that vicious cycle now, it would just keep getting worse and worse"

"Every time we double our efforts, gold-sellers quadruple theirs. We can't continue only using our current methods, throwing more and more resources at it,"

"We realize removing unbalanced trade is a big deal, but we want to assure you that this change has not been taken lightly, that we've exhausted all the alternatives. We've tried countless ways to defeat real-world trading and considered many other options to end this problem – this change was the only definite way to do so."

Quotes drawn from here

 

After acknowledging the above, do you really, really think that things have changed? Did Jagex miraculously learn how to stop all RWT forever over a couple of years? Will they be able to handle the multitude of accounts that will attempt to RWT once they pull the switch? I don't think so. You don't change the gun restriction laws to allow anybody to own any gun without any license just because the amount of murders and robberies goes down and the police have bigger guns.

 

Also, considering Jagex said that "All Customer Support teams combined, we're banning tens of thousands of accounts each week that belong to real-world traders," I would not consider the removal of wilderness a punishment for the majority based on the offenses of a minority. Hundreds of thousand of accounts is not a minority.

 

Throw in the huge publicity stunt to make it look like they genuinely considered the opinions of the "Runescape Community," which was performed horribly, and it turns the whole thing into a bunch of bullcabbage.

 

You have seriously misunderstood the point I made.

 

One of my posts from the previous "Tip.it times" thread partially explains the *current* RWT market, which you seriously misunderstand (as most of the RS community does, because they don't "see" it, it's beneath the surface):

 

RWT is also directly facilitated by the GE system, through clan manipulations.

 

Some examples:

1. Paying for clans ranks (some clans sell even the lowest ranks for £10 each)

2. Paying for someone to sell your junk.

3. "Buying in on a manipulation": where you pay a "leader" who instructs you on what to buy long before the manipulation, to then (if not scammed) reap the profit of the merch in full spring or (if you're scammed) for the item to never actually be merched.

4. Clan leaders raising "starter" accounts (training them to a reasonable level and gradually securing a high cash store due to manipulations). <--- Note that GE/trade limits did absolutely nothing to stop the selling of accounts.

 

I've never believed the majority should have been punished so much due to the minority of rule breakers, but for them to be punished for the measures to actually not work is an even greater insult.

 

Botting is no longer needed or highly profitable for RWTing, whereas other RWTing methods which are impossible to prove/detect are very much common practice. These are considerably more damaging economically than botting ever could be, yet they will be eliminated with free trade; "closing the floodgates" as you put it. I did not suggest Jagex had improved the free trade system, my argument is fundamentally that the non free trade system is worse/more damaging.

 

Jagex's statistics are incomplete and untrustworthy (amusingly, one minute you're stating we shouldn't trust Jagex then you're quoting from them as if their correspondance over issues is entirely trustworthy), but there is a definite fundamental point to be made; yes, they probably do ban a significant number of ACCOUNTS if we include BOTS, which do not have a single PLAYER per ACCOUNT, It isn't a secret that some people ran hundreds of bots at a time which, after being banned, they replaced within a very short space of time to be banned again/etc. I don't think even Jagex could deny (with a straight face) that they punished the majority of players for a minority of rule breakers.

 

P.S. No you didn't mean the wilderness, after the other person replied you continued arguing on the basis of free trade, it wasn't until I replied and ruddied the claim that it "wasn't broken" that suddenly you meant the wilderness. That's when you threw any credibility out the window.

[Prominent]

That article was too controversial, and could spark up a lot of hate.

[Low C]

That article was too controversial, and could spark up a lot of hate.

 

What article? If you're referring to Racheya's article all it is is an overview of the majority of tip.it's opinion on the wilderness returning. She worded it well and I'm glad to see she stayed somewhat unbiased.

[Rsvote]

That article was too controversial, and could spark up a lot of hate.

 

I can't say I agree with the idea that either of the articles has been anywhere near "too controversial". If you actually mean to say "It criticises Jagex, therefore it's bad." then firstly Jagex don't receive enough criticism from the Tip.it times, and secondly it is the role of a fan to comment upon and criticise the game/whatever they're interested in.

 

Though I'm not a fan of fan sites "behaving" and not publishing "controversial" opinions on Jagex to begin with xd.