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Is America a greedy country?


angel_mage

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Expect [cabbage] to hit the fan in the next coming decades because our current paradigm in society/economy will never hold up in a system of finite resources. America is just one of the top countries (run and manipulated by a group of [wagon] elites) making sure that the poorer, more unstable regions stay that way so that they can be exploited (in other words, greedy). Both Capitalism and Socialism are steps in the wrong direction. Statism in general should be abolished.

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Expect [cabbage] to hit the fan in the next coming decades because our current paradigm in society/economy will never hold up in a system of finite resources. America is just one of the top countries (run and manipulated by a group of [wagon] elites) making sure that the poorer, more unstable regions stay that way so that they can be exploited (in other words, greedy). Both Capitalism and Socialism are steps in the wrong direction. Statism in general should be abolished.

You have some very strong opinions. Elaborate.

 

I would have to deal with the flaming for being an anarchist if I elaborated. Really don't feel like the same long-winded argument about how necessary governments are.

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The American Dream is about screwing the next guy over.

Because to own a home, raise a family and make a decent living you have to steal it from someone else. :rolleyes:

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The American Dream is about screwing the next guy over.

Because to own a home, raise a family and make a decent living you have to steal it from someone else. :rolleyes:

 

Well you could say that it is true indirectly. Poverty is an essential part of capitalism, but it's still better than a system of state property. Never trust a government with your [cabbage].

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Poverty is an essential part of capitalism

Uh, no? Unless you're talking about relative wealth, where one person is poor because they can't afford the millionaire's yacht they wash for a living.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
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Poverty is an essential part of capitalism

Uh, no? Unless you're talking about relative wealth, where one person is poor because they can't afford the millionaire's yacht they wash for a living.

 

Poverty is always measured according to average living standards. Capitalism allocates most of its resources among the wealthy minority, which can only mean that a huge portion is taken away from the lower end - even if living standards are collectively rising; there will always be poverty, though not necessarily absolute poverty. In general, Economic growth favours inequality due to the rich attaining wealth at a faster rate than the poor. It doesn't help that social mobility is little more than a fantasy if you arn't already at least middle class and don't have access to proper education (public schooling is not proper education).

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Poverty is always measured according to average living standards.

In any system then, not everyone can be in the wealthiest 1%, so poverty isn't special to capitalism. Was your point intentionally misleading?

Plus, I'd rather be "poor" when it means that I can't own my home and instead have to rent an apartment, versus dying on the street from starvation.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
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My point is that equal opportunity is a lie with very few exceptions. There are many more people who end up successful through heritage compared to those who have to painstakingly work their way up competing against a downward force. (ok... so 50 people out of a population of how many?)

 

Oh and sees all, I think you initially regarded my previous statement as refering to absolute poverty; I was just clearing up that I wasn't. Yes, there's always going to be people who sustain less than average living standards, at least under our current ideologies. Although capitalism is a system that actively widens the gap between classes and acts as if it is fair and just. Increased inequality is detrimental to an economy and it often leads to the implementation socialist-inspired regimes which only serve to provide the rulers with more power over their cattle.

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My point is that equal opportunity is a lie with very few exceptions. There are many more people who end up successful through heritage compared to those who have painstakingly work their way up competing against a downward force. (ok... so 50 people out of a population of how many?)

 

Oh and sees all, I think you initially regarded my previous statement as refering to absolute poverty, I was just clearing up that I wasn't. Yes, there's always going to be people who endure less than average living standards, but capitalism is a system that actively widens the gap and acts as if it is moral. Increased inequality is detrimental to an economy and it often leads to the implementation socialist-inspired regimes which only serve to provide the rulers with more power over their cattle.

50 out of 400 billionaires (at least) went to public school. Equal opportunity is most definitely not a lie, sure life is easier when you can pay your way through private schools, but that's to be expected, and 1 in 8 having worked their way up is nothing to complain about.

 

Not to mention that most of these people seized rare opportunities that simply arn't available to the average oppressed striver. We can't argue that the exceptions are the rule. The people on top want us to stay down and they're going to make it as difficult as possible for those below. Public education is just one of their intellectual filters, it works on most people.

 

Personally I believe one person accumulating such ridiculous quantities of wealth (billions) is a joke anyway. The entire notion just turns life into a dumb game of who can score the most points by exploiting the most people.

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The people on top want us to stay down and they're going to make it as difficult as possible for those below. Public education is just one of their intellectual filters, it works on most people.

You're claiming that there's some vast conspiracy in the "ruling class" against the average joe?

I refuse to believe that people are that sinister.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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The people on top want us to stay down and they're going to make it as difficult as possible for those below. Public education is just one of their intellectual filters, it works on most people.

You're claiming that there's some vast conspiracy in the "ruling class" against the average joe?

I refuse to believe that people are that sinister.

 

In no way am I claiming such conspiracy. Whether you like it or not, under the current system it is entirely logical for those in power to suppress the working class (paid less more profits) and to stifle any new competition before it can arise. True innovation is the only path newcomers can take if they wish to have a chance at this pathetic game.

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The people on top want us to stay down and they're going to make it as difficult as possible for those below. Public education is just one of their intellectual filters, it works on most people.

You're claiming that there's some vast conspiracy in the "ruling class" against the average joe?

I refuse to believe that people are that sinister.

Not a co-operative conspiracy, but its common sense if Joe Smith's new product might screw you over you're gonna stop him somehow.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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The people on top want us to stay down and they're going to make it as difficult as possible for those below. Public education is just one of their intellectual filters, it works on most people.

You're claiming that there's some vast conspiracy in the "ruling class" against the average joe?

I refuse to believe that people are that sinister.

Not a co-operative conspiracy, but its common sense if Joe Smith's new product might screw you over you're gonna stop him somehow.

Venture Capitalism: help him and profit with him.

 

 

EDIT:

In no way am I claiming such conspiracy. Whether you like it or not, under the current system it is entirely logical for those in power to suppress the working class (paid less more profits) and to stifle any new competition before it can arise. True innovation is the only path newcomers can take if they wish to have a chance at this pathetic game.

I'd rather have everyone be rich and buy my product than everyone be poor and not buy my product. Suppressing the working class doesn't benefit anyone.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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The people on top want us to stay down and they're going to make it as difficult as possible for those below. Public education is just one of their intellectual filters, it works on most people.

You're claiming that there's some vast conspiracy in the "ruling class" against the average joe?

I refuse to believe that people are that sinister.

Not a co-operative conspiracy, but its common sense if Joe Smith's new product might screw you over you're gonna stop him somehow.

Venture Capitalism: help him and profit with him.

But since you're the primary investor, you get a larger percent of the stocks. Get 51 through justification and sly negotiating, you took over his business. In essense, the creator never gets true ownership of his invention/service.

 

That is if he accepts your offer of partnership. If he refuses, my previous post still stands.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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The people on top want us to stay down and they're going to make it as difficult as possible for those below. Public education is just one of their intellectual filters, it works on most people.

You're claiming that there's some vast conspiracy in the "ruling class" against the average joe?

I refuse to believe that people are that sinister.

Not a co-operative conspiracy, but its common sense if Joe Smith's new product might screw you over you're gonna stop him somehow.

Venture Capitalism: buy him out

(couldn't resist)

 

EDIT:

In no way am I claiming such conspiracy. Whether you like it or not, under the current system it is entirely logical for those in power to suppress the working class (paid less more profits) and to stifle any new competition before it can arise. True innovation is the only path newcomers can take if they wish to have a chance at this pathetic game.

I'd rather have everyone be rich and buy my product than everyone be poor and not buy my product. Suppressing the working class doesn't benefit anyone.

 

Does that mean your beliefs apply to everyone? Most people only want to see the short-term.

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But since you're the primary investor, you get a larger percent of the stocks. Get 51 through justification and sly negotiating, you took over his business. In essense, the creator never gets true ownership of his invention/service.

 

That is if he accepts your offer of partnership. If he refuses, my previous post still stands.

By the time that happens, the average joe with that great new product will have become wealthy, and much better off than he would've been, much quicker than had he gone at it himself.

We're already so far into a hypothetical that its almost pointless to argue.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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But since you're the primary investor, you get a larger percent of the stocks. Get 51 through justification and sly negotiating, you took over his business. In essense, the creator never gets true ownership of his invention/service.

 

That is if he accepts your offer of partnership. If he refuses, my previous post still stands.

By the time that happens, the average joe with that great new product will have become wealthy, and much better off than he would've been, much quicker than had he gone at it himself.

We're already so far into a hypothetical that its almost pointless to argue.

Well I'm just saying what would most realistically happen, with the most highest probability.

 

The inventor could be content being rich and not known for inventing the product. Personally I'll rather have both.

"The cry of the poor is not always just, but if you never hear it you'll never know what justice is."

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Banning anyone who is a member of a group from entering the country is tantamount to banning the group altogether - if one cannot be in a place, one cannot protest there so in the end you're just effectively abridging freedom of speech. As to the BNP, see here. Taking peoples' livlihoods by arbitraraly firing them for simply supporting a pollitical party effectively bans the group - such restrictions are undemocratic and again unfair.

Although as a proportion, Britain is more "white" than the US, there are still a number of children in our education system who are not white and may not even be technically British. The biggest ethnic group behind White British and White Other in this country is south Asian, in other words, Pakistani or Indian and most likely Muslim as well.

 

It's no secret what the BNP makes of Islam, even its peaceful and purely spiritual intepretations, yet teachers are expected to teach and respond equally to children from a wide variety of backgrounds, including those who aren't British and aren't white. Why should a person who is incapable of doing their job properly because their own personal viewpoints prevent them using the emotional objectivity required, be paid a wage at the taxpayers expense in the name of 'Free Speech', when he can just as easily take up a job in the private sector (not necessarily teaching) where such judgements are at the employer's descretion?

 

You make it sound like BNP members live in abstract poverty because local government forces them out of any and all careers. If that's the impression you have, lose it. If it isn't, reconsider your use of the word 'unfair'.

 

Furthermore, the BNP has historically been involved with anti-Semitism and homophobia. Some would argue it still is. Shall we remove gay and Jewish teenagers from publicly-funded state classrooms for the convenience of individual teachers and the greater cause of 'Free Speech'?

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Furthermore, the BNP has historically been involved with anti-Semitism and homophobia. Some would argue it still is. Shall we remove gay and Jewish teenagers from publicly-funded state classrooms for the convenience of individual teachers and the greater cause of 'Free Speech'?

Many political parties have a dubious past tho, it shouldn't be a deciding factor if party x has changed from it's history.

Just wanted to say that. Since in particularly media it's used as an argument when debating the current 'version'.

Not talking BNP here, just generally.

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Regardless of what you say about social elites, all it takes to move from poverty to the upper middle / upper class is effort. Work hard in school. Get a scholarship. Go to law school. Become a lawyer. It might not be easy, but it's certainly not difficult if you are willing to put in the effort.

 

The upper class is only wealthy because somewhere in the somewhat recent history of their family, someone put in the effort to make money and was successful.

 

There's too many factors you arn't considering, namely the influence of parents, experiences during childhood or simply lacking the opportunities in the first place. It's very easy to shape a childs mind into believing they belong in the lower classes. Why do you think so many people resort to crime? Social mobility becomes worse and worse the further down from the middle class one ventures, it isn't as straight forward as 'work hard, do well'. Heck, even if you do work hard, by no means does that guarantee you will be successful, you could be educated up the ass and still find it near impossible to be accepted into a high-paying job. This isn't a cookie-cutter affair that can be applied to everyone, you can't point at a person in poverty and proclaim 'oh, you just didn't work hard enough, suck it'.

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Regardless of what you say about social elites, all it takes to move from poverty to the upper middle / upper class is effort. Work hard in school. Get a scholarship. Go to law school. Become a lawyer. It might not be easy, but it's certainly not difficult if you are willing to put in the effort.

 

The upper class is only wealthy because somewhere in the somewhat recent history of their family, someone put in the effort to make money and was successful.

 

There's too many factors you arn't considering, namely the influence of parents, experiences during childhood or simply lacking the opportunities in the first place. It's very easy to shape a childs mind into believing they belong in the lower classes. Why do you think so many people resort to crime? Social mobility becomes worse and worse the further down from the middle class one ventures, it isn't as straight forward as 'work hard, do well'. Heck, even if you do work hard, by no means does that guarantee you will be successful, you could be educated up the ass and still find it near impossible to be accepted into a high-paying job. This isn't a cookie-cutter affair that can be applied to everyone, you can't point at a person in poverty and proclaim 'oh, you just didn't work hard enough, suck it'.

 

Read "The Bell Curve" by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray. To put it plainly, the evidence shows unequivocally that (in the United States anyway) parental socioeconomic status means far less to later success then does a student's personal characteristics like intelligence and will to succeed. To be specific, a student whose parents are essentially homeless but who personally is intelligent and driven (say, 2sd's worth) has a 95% of going to and completing college.

 

Work hard and you'll do well. I can say from personal experience that the old boys' network does not work like it once did.

 

The people on top want us to stay down and they're going to make it as difficult as possible for those below. Public education is just one of their intellectual filters, it works on most people.

You're claiming that there's some vast conspiracy in the "ruling class" against the average joe?

I refuse to believe that people are that sinister.

 

In no way am I claiming such conspiracy. Whether you like it or not, under the current system it is entirely logical for those in power to suppress the working class (paid less more profits) and to stifle any new competition before it can arise. True innovation is the only path newcomers can take if they wish to have a chance at this pathetic game.

 

Sure is Das Kapital in here. The ideas you suggest here were proved false almost 50 years ago now. The free market helps everyone far more then it hurts them.

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Theory = fact? Theres only so much a sociologist/economist can deduce from raw statistics; human behaviour cannot be simplified down to numbers. It's naive to believe that everyone carries the same boundless potential for success, as if all they need to do is generically 'work hard' in order to harness it - Regardless of everything that makes them an individual? Common sense, people. The issue is not the distribution of wealth, it is the distribution of opportunity that creates poverty.

 

It's also naive to believe that big corporations act in accordance to the people's best interests, sure they might present themselves as such and occassionally throw around some good deads to create an illusion, but the motives are always the same, to ensure the highest $$$ possible (greed).

 

I'm not against the free market, the free market is great, it's just that our governments should remove their finger from the cake and cease bowing down to the super-corporations.

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America isn't greedy. Our gov't just does what any wise gov't would do. Sometimes we have to set aside our values for our best interests.

Gary, defender of Truth, Justice and the American Dream.

 

Vote Palin 2012

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America isn't greedy. Our gov't just does what any wise gov't would do. Sometimes we have to set aside our values for our best interests.

 

Hmm... NO.

 

If everyone thought like that then there'd probably be world war?

 

Our world should be striving towards keeping those values.

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