[Discussion] gambling in runescape, RS Mafia&CO, solutions to the problem

[jjjon123]

I hope everyone understands here the fact that gambling is not scamming if you use legit reputable clans such as mew2 or others.

I like the idea of jagex adding a new item to faruqs that holds the money for you.

 

What I dont want to see is actual casinos in the form of games added to the POH. It just doesn't feel right encouraging "casinos" in RS.

[Kaida23]

I hope everyone understands here the fact that gambling is not scamming if you use legit reputable clans such as mew2 or others.

And I hope you understand that, technically, Jagex does consider it, and all other forms of trust games, scamming...it just doesn't specifically has a rule against it, and that's the problem. They need to either make it against the rules, or add something that will make it safe and remove the potential for scamming.

 

I agree with you that a item from Faruq to hold the money would remedy this problem nicely.

[Range_This11]

If it is clear who the users are that are part of this RS Mafia and that they have help from player moderators, this should be an easy fix for JaGex. Do not simply remove their player moderator status, ban them from the game altogether. The problem does not lie in the gambling companies, but the corrupt player moderators who assist them.

[jjjon123]

I hope everyone understands here the fact that gambling is not scamming if you use legit reputable clans such as mew2 or others.

And I hope you understand that, technically, Jagex does consider it, and all other forms of trust games, scamming...it just doesn't specifically has a rule against it, and that's the problem. They need to either make it against the rules, or add something that will make it safe and remove the potential for scamming.

Yes that is true, I just want to get the scamming aspect out of the way and focus on the actual problem of the corrupt pmods.

 

Still discuss about the scamming that exists just know that not all gambling = scamming.

[Kaida23]

Still discuss about the scamming that exists just know that not all gambling = scamming.

Agreed. But as there are no controls, or even rules for enforcement, in place the potential for scamming is always there.

[Iglw]

I can't imagine Jagex doing anything other than ignoring the...'issue'. If asked directly I'm sure it will be "against the spirit of the game".

 

That's what they say, yep. :P

 

Considering how long they took to make up their minds about merchant clans I doubt they'll respond to this any quicker.

 

Just introduce some form of legit in-game dicing to render all the scammers and profiteers useless.

[neogilgamesh]

Yes one of the big problems here is perceivabely unfair black marks because Jagex is not enforcing a rule, but rather an esoteric policy that is not likely to be known by a legit host until after they received the black mark. Black marks are like criminal convictions, they should not be given for violating a policy that apparantly is still being hashed around in Jagex's offices, but rather for violating the letter of the law as it stands right now.

[Kaida23]

Yes one of the big problems here is perceivabely unfair black marks because Jagex is not enforcing a rule, but rather an esoteric policy that is not likely to be known by a legit host until after they received the black mark. Black marks are like criminal convictions, they should not be given for violating a policy that apparantly is still being hashed around in Jagex's offices, but rather for violating the letter of the law as it stands right now.

It seems there are too many rules with both 'letter of the law' and 'spirit of the law' standards (like the spam issue you and I were discussing) that leave far too much room for interpretation depending on which mod looks at it.

 

Perhaps it's time for Jagex to sit down and take a serious look at revamping these ambiguous rules before more people get black marks on their file based on poorly worded technicalities.

[neogilgamesh]

Yes one of the big problems here is perceivabely unfair black marks because Jagex is not enforcing a rule, but rather an esoteric policy that is not likely to be known by a legit host until after they received the black mark. Black marks are like criminal convictions, they should not be given for violating a policy that apparantly is still being hashed around in Jagex's offices, but rather for violating the letter of the law as it stands right now.

It seems there are too many rules with both 'letter of the law' and 'spirit of the law' standards (like the spam issue you and I were discussing) that leave far too much room for interpretation depending on which mod looks at it.

 

Perhaps it's time for Jagex to sit down and take a serious look at revamping these ambiguous rules before more people get black marks on their file based on poorly worded technicalities.

 

Agreed, the spam issue is in the rules, but the language is open to interpretation and with potential ambiguities (two people can disagree and what is and isn't necessary). Until they fix the rule(s), ambiguities in them should be construed in favor of the party that did not draft it (the players).

[Barihawk]

I say we get a large group together, dress alike, and protest gambling. One person types a message every 15 seconds, with 30 people it's chat flooding without breaking any rules. Would be fun. Advertise a cc for gambling addiction anonymous.

[Kaida23]

So you're advocating rule changing through rule breaking? I like it! :thumbsup: It's sort of like non-violent resistance.

 

Not that collective protests have ever changed Jagex's mind on anything in the past... :???:

[Alphanos]

There are actually three two separate issues here:

 

1) Is gambling scamming, etc. This is up to Jagex, but so far they've been very wishy-washy on the subject.

 

2) Corrupt P-Mods and appeals failing on those corrupt and inaccurate reports. Assuming that posters here are being honest, this is straight-up Jagex problem to address.

 

[hide=Old incorrect stuff, corrected below]

3) Jagex removed the rule for item scamming, such that item scamming in general doesn't actually seem to be breaking any rules anymore. This problem is definitely more serious than #1, and of arguable severity in comparison to #2. Personally, I'd like to think that corrupt player mods are few and far between, whereas item scamming is well known to be widespread, thus making this the more serious problem.[/hide]

[WolfieMario]

There are actually three separate issues here:

 

1) Is gambling scamming, etc. This is up to Jagex, but so far they've been very wishy-washy on the subject.

 

2) Corrupt P-Mods and appeals failing on those corrupt and inaccurate reports. Assuming that posters here are being honest, this is straight-up Jagex problem to address.

 

3) Jagex removed the rule for item scamming, such that item scamming in general doesn't actually seem to be breaking any rules anymore. This problem is definitely more serious than #1, and of arguable severity in comparison to #2. Personally, I'd like to think that corrupt player mods are few and far between, whereas item scamming is well known to be widespread, thus making this the more serious problem.

@3: See this. Specifically, point 5 still mentions item scamming. It would be reported under Honour - Scamming.

[Alphanos]

Thanks for linking to that :). In the discussion about trust trades not yet being against the rules, I'm guessing I somehow mixed that up with other types of scams or something? In any event, I'm glad to see that I was misinformed :).

[Rohanlord]

Taverly Hold Em ftw?

[n64jive]

Just realized today that Conquest allows staking (much like duel arena).

 

Why doesn't Jagex incorporate this into other 1v1 mini games? Burthope Games Room?

[wormy]

What I dont want to see is actual casinos in the form of games added to the POH. It just doesn't feel right encouraging "casinos" in RS.

 

The first generation pokemon games have casinos. If Jagex implemented a decent house advantage and limits then it would serve as a very good money sink.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Just realized today that Conquest allows staking (much like duel arena).

 

Why doesn't Jagex incorporate this into other 1v1 mini games? Burthope Games Room?

 

Then the focus of these minigames shifts from a bit of fun to all about the wealth, which is what happened to the Duel Arena in its true heyday. It's not a pleasant experience to try to play a game with those only concerned for their "wealth".

 

(Since I can't multiquote on a mobile browser...)

 

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

[Kaida23]

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

It's definitely a different thing to put something like a casino into a multiplayer (of varying ages) game like RS, but I think it might not be that bad of an idea. It would make an excellent money sink and they could keep the potential payouts small to prevent too much excess gp being pumped back into the economy. Perhaps they could make it like a solo mini-game; they could give out tokens instead of gp, and players could have the choice of trading in tokens for cash or prizes (think Skeeball but with better rewards).

[n64jive]

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

It's definitely a different thing to put something like a casino into a multiplayer (of varying ages) game like RS, but I think it might not be that bad of an idea. It would make an excellent money sink and they could keep the potential payouts small to prevent too much excess gp being pumped back into the economy. Perhaps they could make it like a solo mini-game; they could give out tokens instead of gp, and players could have the choice of trading in tokens for cash or prizes (think Skeeball but with better rewards).

 

if the games had a house edge involved, then more money would always go out then come in, so there would be no need to worry about "excess" money coming into the economy or keeping the payouts small.

 

I think many people would push for more of a player-vs-player type gambling, and I would support this only if the odds were even. There would be no point in adding the type of gambling that currently happens, where one player has about a 20% edge over the other player, as no one would want to partake in this since everyone could easily do it(the only reason people do it now is because hosting requires you become trusted, and that requires time...etc)...

[Omali]

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

It's definitely a different thing to put something like a casino into a multiplayer (of varying ages) game like RS, but I think it might not be that bad of an idea. It would make an excellent money sink and they could keep the potential payouts small to prevent too much excess gp being pumped back into the economy. Perhaps they could make it like a solo mini-game; they could give out tokens instead of gp, and players could have the choice of trading in tokens for cash or prizes (think Skeeball but with better rewards).

 

Fallen Earth is an example of an MMO with slot machines that works. Darkfall also allows you to put slot machines in your house, there are two types and each type draws from its own global jackpots.

 

I like the idea of Runescape's slot machines using tokens rather than GP, as money plays a much bigger role in Runescape than it does in either Darkfall or Fallen Earth.

[jijilentosmi]

As a player mod, I always warn people to stay away from flower games, double money, dice games, and all things of the sort. Its not that there aren't legitimate players running these at times but its mostly a scam and impossible to distinguish between the two. As for player moderators being involved, I find it disgusting that these players are abusing their privileges and we've been warned against it multiple times, so there is no excuse.

[Soupy17]

Just realized today that Conquest allows staking (much like duel arena).

 

Why doesn't Jagex incorporate this into other 1v1 mini games? Burthope Games Room?

 

Then the focus of these minigames shifts from a bit of fun to all about the wealth, which is what happened to the Duel Arena in its true heyday. It's not a pleasant experience to try to play a game with those only concerned for their "wealth".

 

(Since I can't multiquote on a mobile browser...)

 

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

You can also get the TM moves, the only logical reason for getting porygon is to complete your pokedex - porygon sucks :S

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

It's definitely a different thing to put something like a casino into a multiplayer (of varying ages) game like RS, but I think it might not be that bad of an idea. It would make an excellent money sink and they could keep the potential payouts small to prevent too much excess gp being pumped back into the economy. Perhaps they could make it like a solo mini-game; they could give out tokens instead of gp, and players could have the choice of trading in tokens for cash or prizes (think Skeeball but with better rewards).

 

But then you're stuck with another minigame that has lower potential payouts for those actually interested, and it would become underutilized. The money sink idea only works well if everyone participates too.

 

I can't see how a gambling house would actually benefit RS or help curb/legitimize the emergent gameplay that's already going on. Then again, I've made it clear that I can't really see a point in legitimizing the gambling aspect of emergent gameplay.

[n64jive]

To the remark of the first generation Pokemon games having a casino: I would argue that there is a considerable difference between that - solo player by nature - and a game on the scale of RuneScape. The casino was more specific to the plot (only could get Porygon there), whereas something similar in 'Scape wouldn't be.

It's definitely a different thing to put something like a casino into a multiplayer (of varying ages) game like RS, but I think it might not be that bad of an idea. It would make an excellent money sink and they could keep the potential payouts small to prevent too much excess gp being pumped back into the economy. Perhaps they could make it like a solo mini-game; they could give out tokens instead of gp, and players could have the choice of trading in tokens for cash or prizes (think Skeeball but with better rewards).

 

But then you're stuck with another minigame that has lower potential payouts for those actually interested, and it would become underutilized. The money sink idea only works well if everyone participates too.

 

I can't see how a gambling house would actually benefit RS or help curb/legitimize the emergent gameplay that's already going on. Then again, I've made it clear that I can't really see a point in legitimizing the gambling aspect of emergent gameplay.

 

1. It would force the emergent gamblers to offer a better house edge than what Jagex implements. If Jagex implemented a house edge of 5%, it really would just eradicate the player-hosts.

 

A money sink doesn't require all players participate.

 

I think some sort of gambling would be a fun idea. Jagex could even add limits to how much you could lose per day. It would be best if these were dynamic, say based on the cash in your bank and inventory at the time of your first wager for that day. Make it something like 10%, meaning that players could never lose more then 10% of their bank in 1 day.

I really think it's a pretty good idea. Many of us enjoy gambling. I sometimes will play around on pogo or some other site that allows some form of gambling. The problem, however, is that there is nothing to do with the currency on these sites. In runescape, there would be a purpose to winning.

 

Like I said, I also think it would be cool if they offered staking in other type of minigames, such as what is found in the games room. (similiar to conquest)