http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2011/07/29/norway-innocent-israel-guilty-norwegian-ambassdor/

 

Norway innocent; Israel guilty Norwegian ambassdor

 

Norways ambassador to Israel, Svein Sevje, was quoted in an interview as saying that terrorist attacks against Israelis are morally more acceptable than the attack last week against Norway.

 

His reasoning, as Alan Dershowitz argues, is that, We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel.

 

In other words, says Dershowitz, terrorism against Israeli citizens is the fault of Israel. The terrorism against Norway, on the other hand, was based on an ideology that said that Norway, particularly the Labor Party, is foregoing Norwegian culture. It is hard to imagine that he would make such a provocative statement without express approval from the Norwegian government.

 

 

But then, Dershowitz suggests, perhaps we shouldnt expect the Norwegians to show much empathy for Israel, or, in like of the recent tragedy, some newfound understanding of existential threat Israel has faced for more than 60 years. As the Ambassador made clear in his benighted interview, those of us who believe (the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel) will not change their minds because of the attack in Oslo. In other words, they will persist in their bigoted view that Israel is the cause of the terrorism directed at it, and that if only Israel were to end the occupation (as it offered to do in 2000-2001 and again in 2007), the terrorism will end. Even Hamas, which Norway supports in many ways, has made clear that it will not end its terrorism as long as Israel continues to exist. Hamas believes that Israels very existence is the cause of the terrorism against it. That sounds a lot like the ranting of the man who engaged in the act of terrorism against Norway.

 

The time is long overdue for Norwegians to do some deep soul searching about their sordid history of complicity with all forms of bigotry ranging from the anti-Semitic Nazis to the anti-Semitic Hamas. There seems to be a common thread.

 

The fundamental purpose of any government is the protection of its citizens. A government that fails in this function can surely be challenged as to its legitimacy or, indeed, its loyalty. Perhaps the Norwegian elites should devote more thought to their own citizens instead of condemning other countries that do take such a dut seriously.

 

Indeed, if the government of Norway had devoted even a smidgen of the effort to protect its citizens that Israel expends trying to defend its citizens, then, quite possibly, many of those young Norwegians might still be alive. You might also note that the youth gathering on Utøya Island, where the massacre took place, was sponsored by the ruling Norwegian Labour Party, and included a rally and speech aimed at deligitimizing Israel.

 

Something about people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

 

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/07/norwegian_ambassador_the_oslo_attacks_and_palestinian_terrorism_are_different.html

 

Norwegian Ambassador: The Oslo Attacks And Palestinian Terrorism Are 'Different'

 

I've long been aware that Norway is one of the most anti-Semitic countries in Europe, but this is a rather unique bit of supremely ugly hypocrisy.

 

In an interview with the Israeli daily Maariv, Norway's ambassador to Israel Svein Sevje patiently explained that he wanted to "outline the similarity and the difference in the two cases."

 

Palestinians, the ambassador told Maariv, "are doing this because of a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious element to their actions."

 

"In the case of the terror attack in Norway, the murderer had an ideology that says that Norway, particularly the Labor Party, is forgoing Norwegian culture," Sevje said, referring to Anders Breivik.

 

"We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel," he said. "Those who believe this will not change their mind because of the attack in Oslo."

 

This came after Israel was one of the first countries to reach out to Norway after the attacks and offer its condolences and assistance.

 

Norway, by the way, actively engages with Hamas, an organization that openly preaches genocide against Jews worldwide, not just in Israel. And according to the Ambassador, Israel 'engaging' with Hamas is a necessity.

 

I'm sure Ambassador Sevje would not have spoken to the press unless his remarks had been cleared by his government. And in view of that, I think it's worth my mentioning something I had planned on letting go by, out of sympathy for the victims of the Oslo killings.

 

The fact is, the youth gathering on Utøya Island sponsored by the ruling Norwegian Labor had an anti-Semitic rally aimed at deligitimizing Israel as a major component.

 

The photo above was taken on the island was taken the day before the killings. It shows Norway's Foreign Minister, Jonas Gahr Store en route to address the Labor Party youth. And what did he have to say to them? That the Palestinians "must have their own state, the occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now," said the Foreign Minister to cheers from the audience.

 

Yes, Norway's foreign minister wants Israel's defensive barrier destroyed, to make it easier for homicide bombers to kill Jews.

 

And it didn't end there. The main activity at the Utøya Island Meeting were mock "Break the Israel blockade" games. In one event , Palestinian aid boats would try to break the Israeli blockade, with whoever gets through first as the winner. The sign says "defeat the blockade" (opphev blokkaden - Gaza).

 

In fact, Norway's Labor Youth are noted for their vociferous anti-Israel activities, with the fond approval of their elders for the most part.

 

Glenn Beck may have been a little over the top, but he wasn't too far off in referring to the Utøya Island gathering as 'kind of like a Hitler Youth meeting."

 

Am I saying that the Labor Youth deserved to be shot down and murdered? Not at all. And based on his 'manifesto' the killer or killers had very little sympathy for Israel. Quite the reverse, in fact. But given that the victims of the Oslo killings and their government support groups that seek the genocide of Jews, let's just say I'm not overly consumed with sorrow for them.

 

When you negate someone else's humanity, you open up a door. And you have to live with what comes out of it.

 

[bleep].

 

Still feel horrible about the victims who were getting brainwashed on that Island :S

 

 

Anyone else know that this was happening on the Island?

 

Thoughts?

 

For Mods: I do believe this is a different discussion than the Norway Attacks, and as such, I've created a new topic for it.

Mother of God, it's the biggest can of worms I've ever seen.

Alan Dershowitz....LOL

 

That's not what he said:

 

Palestinians, the ambassador told Maariv, "are doing this because of a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious element to their actions."

 

"In the case of the terror attack in Norway, the murderer had an ideology that says that Norway, particularly the Labor Party, is forgoing Norwegian culture," Sevje said

 

"We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel," he said. "Those who believe this will not change their mind because of the attack in Oslo."

 

Indeed, he is correct. Furthermore, any attacks on Israeli soldiers are entirely legitimate, just as any Taliban attacks on NATO forces are legitimate, just as Libyan attacks on NATO forces are legitimate. Of course, being a pacifist myself I wouldn't attack those soldiers if I were a Palestinian; but I know not everyone subscribes to my call to non-violence.

Alan Dershowitz....LOL

 

That's not what he said:

 

Palestinians, the ambassador told Maariv, "are doing this because of a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious element to their actions."

 

"In the case of the terror attack in Norway, the murderer had an ideology that says that Norway, particularly the Labor Party, is forgoing Norwegian culture," Sevje said

 

"We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel," he said. "Those who believe this will not change their mind because of the attack in Oslo."

 

Indeed, he is correct. Furthermore, any attacks on Israeli soldiers are entirely legitimate, just as any Taliban attacks on NATO forces are legitimate, just as Libyan attacks on NATO forces are legitimate. Of course, being a pacifist myself I wouldn't attack those soldiers if I were a Palestinian; but I know not everyone subscribes to my call to non-violence.

 

So terrorism by someone in your own country= unacceptable

Terrorism by someone else= morally acceptable

:rolleyes:

 

D'oh...

So terrorism by someone in your own country= unacceptable

Terrorism by someone else= morally justified?

 

Are legitimacy and moral justification the same thing in this case? They don't really seem like they are.

 

But I will say, one scenario is slightly more understandable than a psychopath flying off the handle. Not saying the ends justify the means, but...

Was the IRA morally justified to attack British infrastructure in the disputed counties of Northern Ireland? I'm not prepared to say either way, but what I am prepared to say is that it could be easily justified by some.

 

Terrorism can be morally justified, even if the killing of innocent people cannot. Then again, terrorism doesn't necessitate killing people.

So terrorism by someone in your own country= unacceptable

Terrorism by someone else= morally justified?

 

Are legitimacy and moral justification the same thing in this case? They don't really seem like they are.

 

But I will say, one scenario is slightly more understandable than a psychopath flying off the handle. Not saying the ends justify the means, but...

 

Yeah my bad. Changed it.

 

I didn't know Norway's youth were being trained to be anti-Semitic. Still that's completely messed up.

Recent Topics Added

Norwegian Ambassador claims that terrorism against Israel is morally acceptable

What?!

 

by The_Gabe Today, 02:58 PM

Oh.

 

Yes, Norway's foreign minister wants Israel's defensive barrier destroyed, to make it easier for homicide bombers to kill Jews.

This is ridiculous. He didn't even say why he wanted it destroyed. There's also a difference between antisemitism and thinking Palestinians are oppressed. Is there an unbiased, unaltered transcript of what the ambassador said anywhere?

As for the "training", while it is a little eerie, we're still talking aid boats here.

Alan Dershowitz....LOL

 

That's not what he said:

 

Palestinians, the ambassador told Maariv, "are doing this because of a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious element to their actions."

 

"In the case of the terror attack in Norway, the murderer had an ideology that says that Norway, particularly the Labor Party, is forgoing Norwegian culture," Sevje said

 

"We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel," he said. "Those who believe this will not change their mind because of the attack in Oslo."

 

Indeed, he is correct. Furthermore, any attacks on Israeli soldiers are entirely legitimate, just as any Taliban attacks on NATO forces are legitimate, just as Libyan attacks on NATO forces are legitimate. Of course, being a pacifist myself I wouldn't attack those soldiers if I were a Palestinian; but I know not everyone subscribes to my call to non-violence.

 

So terrorism by someone in your own country= unacceptable

Terrorism by someone else= morally acceptable

Complete misinterpretation.

 

More like terrorism against a state occupying your homeland, committing injustices against your people, etc. etc. = acceptable

Terrorism against random people = unacceptable

 

This. There's an enormous difference between resistance against an occupying force and unprovoked slaughter of innocents.

 

Now, you can make a debate as to whether or not israel has a legitimate reason for occupation - but it is occupation. No if's, and's or but's about it.

More like terrorism against a state occupying your homeland, committing injustices against your people, etc. etc. = acceptable

Terrorism against random people = unacceptable

 

This. There's an enormous difference between resistance against an occupying force and unprovoked slaughter of innocents.

 

Now, you can make a debate as to whether or not israel has a legitimate reason for occupation - but it is occupation. No if's, and's or but's about it.

 

Terrorism kills random people and intended targets alike. Palestinian terrorists have killed innocent Israeli, and Israeli military have killed innocent Palestinians.

 

None of these are acceptable. Understandable to some degree? Yes. But never, never acceptable.

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is suspicion of, hatred toward, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. According to a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is "hatred toward Jewsindividually and as a groupthat can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." From Wiki with citation from "Report on Global Anti-Semitism", U.S. State Department, January 5, 2005.

 

Kindly get your terms correct. Criticism of Israel the state and various policies of said state is not automatically nor necessarily a reflection upon various people of a certain heritage, religion and/ ethnicity.

Alan Dershowitz....LOL

 

That's not what he said:

 

Palestinians, the ambassador told Maariv, "are doing this because of a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious element to their actions."

 

"In the case of the terror attack in Norway, the murderer had an ideology that says that Norway, particularly the Labor Party, is forgoing Norwegian culture," Sevje said

 

"We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel," he said. "Those who believe this will not change their mind because of the attack in Oslo."

 

Indeed, he is correct. Furthermore, any attacks on Israeli soldiers are entirely legitimate, just as any Taliban attacks on NATO forces are legitimate, just as Libyan attacks on NATO forces are legitimate. Of course, being a pacifist myself I wouldn't attack those soldiers if I were a Palestinian; but I know not everyone subscribes to my call to non-violence.

 

So terrorism by someone in your own country= unacceptable

Terrorism by someone else= morally acceptable

Complete misinterpretation.

 

More like terrorism against a state occupying your homeland, committing injustices against your people, etc. etc. = acceptable

Terrorism against random people = unacceptable

 

Except it's not random people. It's people who disagree with your ideology. That's the main reason for terrorism; people disagreeing with that you think is right.

 

Terrorism kills random people and intended targets alike. Palestinian terrorists have killed innocent Israeli, and Israeli military have killed innocent Palestinians.

 

None of these are acceptable. Understandable to some degree? Yes. But never, never acceptable.

 

Killing innocents is always wrong, yes.

 

But there is nothing wrong with militant strikes against an occupying force when the military is the primary target.

But there is nothing wrong with militant strikes against an occupying force when the military is the primary target.

 

Are you talking about war or terrorist attacks?

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is suspicion of, hatred toward, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. According to a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." From Wiki with citation from "Report on Global Anti-Semitism", U.S. State Department, January 5, 2005.

 

Kindly get your terms correct. Criticism of Israel the state and various policies of said state is not automatically nor necessarily a reflection upon various people of a certain heritage, religion and/ ethnicity.

 

Norway, by the way, actively engages with Hamas, an organization that openly preaches genocide against Jews worldwide, not just in Israel. And according to the Ambassador, Israel 'engaging' with Hamas is a necessity.

 

From the link above. If that link is not enough, I can provide more if you'd want me to.

But there is nothing wrong with militant strikes against an occupying force when the military is the primary target.

 

Are you talking about war or terrorist attacks?

Either or. Although if you're being occupied that qualifies as a war.

But there is nothing wrong with militant strikes against an occupying force when the military is the primary target.

 

Are you talking about war or terrorist attacks?

Either or. Although if you're being occupied that qualifies as a war.

 

Terrorism is primarily focused on civilians and most of the Palestinian terrorist attacks have been against civilians, so I don't think you mean 'either or' :P

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is suspicion of, hatred toward, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. According to a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is "hatred toward Jewsindividually and as a groupthat can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." From Wiki with citation from "Report on Global Anti-Semitism", U.S. State Department, January 5, 2005.

 

Kindly get your terms correct. Criticism of Israel the state and various policies of said state is not automatically nor necessarily a reflection upon various people of a certain heritage, religion and/ ethnicity.

 

Norway, by the way, actively engages with Hamas, an organization that openly preaches genocide against Jews worldwide, not just in Israel. And according to the Ambassador, Israel 'engaging' with Hamas is a necessity.

 

From the link above. If that link is not enough, I can provide more if you'd want me to.

But there is nothing wrong with militant strikes against an occupying force when the military is the primary target.

 

Are you talking about war or terrorist attacks?

Either or. Although if you're being occupied that qualifies as a war.

 

Terrorism is primarily focused on civilians and most of the Palestinian terrorist attacks have been against civilians, so I don't think you mean 'either or' :P

That's true - the definition of terrorism focuses mostly on innocent civilians. In that regard, no, it's never morally justified.

 

But the term "suicide bomber" is often synonymous with terrorism when it simply isn't the case. As long as it's a military target during war terms, it's morally justifiable.

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is suspicion of, hatred toward, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. According to a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is "hatred toward Jewsindividually and as a groupthat can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." From Wiki with citation from "Report on Global Anti-Semitism", U.S. State Department, January 5, 2005.

 

Kindly get your terms correct. Criticism of Israel the state and various policies of said state is not automatically nor necessarily a reflection upon various people of a certain heritage, religion and/ ethnicity.

 

Norway, by the way, actively engages with Hamas, an organization that openly preaches genocide against Jews worldwide, not just in Israel. And according to the Ambassador, Israel 'engaging' with Hamas is a necessity.

 

From the link above. If that link is not enough, I can provide more if you'd want me to.

 

So? We also 'engage' with Israel. So by that logic we're also pro-israel.....

Define 'engage', and stop hiding behind weasel words.

 

EDIT: Directed at Gabe, not you Siobhana

Edited August 1, 201114 yr by Ginger_Warrior

Alan Dershowitz....LOL

 

That's not what he said:

 

Palestinians, the ambassador told Maariv, "are doing this because of a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious element to their actions."

 

"In the case of the terror attack in Norway, the murderer had an ideology that says that Norway, particularly the Labor Party, is forgoing Norwegian culture," Sevje said

 

"We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel," he said. "Those who believe this will not change their mind because of the attack in Oslo."

 

Indeed, he is correct. Furthermore, any attacks on Israeli soldiers are entirely legitimate, just as any Taliban attacks on NATO forces are legitimate, just as Libyan attacks on NATO forces are legitimate. Of course, being a pacifist myself I wouldn't attack those soldiers if I were a Palestinian; but I know not everyone subscribes to my call to non-violence.

 

So terrorism by someone in your own country= unacceptable

Terrorism by someone else= morally acceptable

 

I said soldiers, specifically. It is not terrorism to attack soldiers. It is terrorism to attack and target innocent civilians, such as the settlers. Soldiers protecting the settlers are fair game. They are an occupying force, illegally. Every country, including the war mongering United States, agrees with this. Only the Religious Right, antisemitic Zionist Christians, people like this Norwegian terrorist, and the Likud Party are advocating for Greater Israel.

Alan Dershowitz....LOL

 

That's not what he said:

 

Palestinians, the ambassador told Maariv, "are doing this because of a defined goal that is related to the Israeli occupation. There are elements of revenge against Israel and hatred of Israel. To this you can add the religious element to their actions."

 

"In the case of the terror attack in Norway, the murderer had an ideology that says that Norway, particularly the Labor Party, is forgoing Norwegian culture," Sevje said

 

"We Norwegians consider the occupation to be the cause of the terror against Israel," he said. "Those who believe this will not change their mind because of the attack in Oslo."

 

Indeed, he is correct. Furthermore, any attacks on Israeli soldiers are entirely legitimate, just as any Taliban attacks on NATO forces are legitimate, just as Libyan attacks on NATO forces are legitimate. Of course, being a pacifist myself I wouldn't attack those soldiers if I were a Palestinian; but I know not everyone subscribes to my call to non-violence.

 

So terrorism by someone in your own country= unacceptable

Terrorism by someone else= morally acceptable

 

I said soldiers, specifically. It is not terrorism to attack soldiers. It is terrorism to attack and target innocent civilians, such as the settlers. Soldiers protecting the settlers are fair game. They are an occupying force, illegally. Every country, including the war mongering United States, agrees with this. Only the Religious Right, antisemitic Zionist Christians, people like this Norwegian terrorist, and the Likud Party are advocating for Greater Israel.

You know, this would be a great post if it weren't for the ridiculous sweeping generalizations.

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is suspicion of, hatred toward, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. According to a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is "hatred toward Jewsindividually and as a groupthat can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." From Wiki with citation from "Report on Global Anti-Semitism", U.S. State Department, January 5, 2005.

 

Kindly get your terms correct. Criticism of Israel the state and various policies of said state is not automatically nor necessarily a reflection upon various people of a certain heritage, religion and/ ethnicity.

 

Norway, by the way, actively engages with Hamas, an organization that openly preaches genocide against Jews worldwide, not just in Israel. And according to the Ambassador, Israel 'engaging' with Hamas is a necessity.

 

From the link above. If that link is not enough, I can provide more if you'd want me to.

 

Hamas should be involved in any negotiations. They are the elected government of the Gaza Strip. Perhaps if Israel didn't actively fund and encourage them in order to splinter the leadership of the PA, they wouldn't exist in the first place, hmmm?

 

You know, this would be a great post if it weren't for the ridiculous sweeping generalizations.

 

What people do you know who advocate for Greater Israel other than the people I listed? Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you're an antisemitic Christian Zionist.

 

These are antisemitic Christian Zionists:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig