What people do you know who advocate for Greater Israel other than the people I listed? Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you're an antisemitic Christian Zionist.

 

These are antisemitic Christian Zionists:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig

 

Well, it depends on what you mean by "Greater Israel", but I know a lot of people of various backgrounds who support Israel pretty much non-conditionally. I also didn't see anything antisemitic in that video, admittedly I only watched the first couple minutes.

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is suspicion of, hatred toward, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. According to a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is "hatred toward Jews—individually and as a group—that can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." From Wiki with citation from "Report on Global Anti-Semitism", U.S. State Department, January 5, 2005.

 

Kindly get your terms correct. Criticism of Israel the state and various policies of said state is not automatically nor necessarily a reflection upon various people of a certain heritage, religion and/ ethnicity.

 

Norway, by the way, actively engages with Hamas, an organization that openly preaches genocide against Jews worldwide, not just in Israel. And according to the Ambassador, Israel 'engaging' with Hamas is a necessity.

 

From the link above. If that link is not enough, I can provide more if you'd want me to.

I do. Can you find the sentence in which the Ambassador said it was a necessity for israel to engage with Hamas, so we can try to understand what he means? It's very easy to put words in someone's mouth when you only quote a one.

I like how people bash Israel for maybe being a bit excessive in fighting the Palestinian terrorists, then ignore how the rest of the middle-eastern countries treat non-Muslims, or what Palestine would likely do to Israelis if they were in control of the region.

Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is suspicion of, hatred toward, or discrimination against Jews for reasons connected to their Jewish heritage. According to a 2005 U.S. governmental report, antisemitism is "hatred toward Jewsindividually and as a groupthat can be attributed to the Jewish religion and/or ethnicity." From Wiki with citation from "Report on Global Anti-Semitism", U.S. State Department, January 5, 2005.

 

Kindly get your terms correct. Criticism of Israel the state and various policies of said state is not automatically nor necessarily a reflection upon various people of a certain heritage, religion and/ ethnicity.

 

Norway, by the way, actively engages with Hamas, an organization that openly preaches genocide against Jews worldwide, not just in Israel. And according to the Ambassador, Israel 'engaging' with Hamas is a necessity.

 

From the link above. If that link is not enough, I can provide more if you'd want me to.

 

So? We also 'engage' with Israel. So by that logic we're also pro-israel.....

 

But let us go back further in history. Because I don't have a lot of time right now and I know everyone is waiting for replies, I'll go ahead and post a few key points from Norwegian history regard Jews.

 

Despite the fact that the Norwegian law and constitution grant freedom of religion to everyone, Norway is one of the few countries in the world where Jewish ritual slaughter (shechita) of animals is forbidden. The ban was introduced three years before the Nazis took power in Germany and continues till today, whereas Muslim ceremonial slaughter (hallal) is permitted.

 

* Over the past thirty years, Norwegian media caricatures have sustained a high level of demonization of Jews and the state of Israel. These include portraying Jews as heartless, peace-hating, enemies of humanity, Nazi, bloodthirsty, child-killers, and controllers of the world. This trend has been rapidly increasing over the past years.

 

Many Norwegian journalists and leaders espouse the traditional mainstream European anti-Jewish attitudes. Norwegian anti-Semitism does not come from the grassroots but from the leadership - politicians, organization leaders, church leaders, and senior journalists. It does not come from Muslims but from the European-Christian society.

 

There is my information here http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=3&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=624&PID=0&IID=1256&TTL=Jew-Hatred_in_Contemporary_Norwegian_Caricatures

 

It's not just from relative modern times either; Norway has been Anti-Semitic throughout history.

 

But there is nothing wrong with militant strikes against an occupying force when the military is the primary target.

 

Are you talking about war or terrorist attacks?

Either or. Although if you're being occupied that qualifies as a war.

 

Terrorism is primarily focused on civilians and most of the Palestinian terrorist attacks have been against civilians, so I don't think you mean 'either or' :P

That's true - the definition of terrorism focuses mostly on innocent civilians. In that regard, no, it's never morally justified.

 

But the term "suicide bomber" is often synonymous with terrorism when it simply isn't the case. As long as it's a military target during war terms, it's morally justifiable.

 

Except nearly always it is the case. I'll have to finish the rest later; going out.

Despite the fact that the Norwegian law and constitution grant freedom of religion to everyone, Norway is one of the few countries in the world where Jewish ritual slaughter (shechita) of animals is forbidden. The ban was introduced three years before the Nazis took power in Germany and continues till today, whereas Muslim ceremonial slaughter (hallal) is permitted.

 

The only reason hallal slaughter is allowed is that they have agreed to anaesthetise the animal prior to cutting their throat. As such it isn't "true" hallal,, but a liveable compromise. The law of 1929 is a general law against kiloing animals without anaesthesia.

 

* Over the past thirty years, Norwegian media caricatures have sustained a high level of demonization of Jews and the state of Israel. These include portraying Jews as heartless, peace-hating, enemies of humanity, Nazi, bloodthirsty, child-killers, and controllers of the world. This trend has been rapidly increasing over the past years.

 

This is at best a subjective opinion. I cannot really remember seeing charicatures etc of jews. I have seen it about the state of Israel (again, that little tidbit. There is a difference between the views and actions of a political state and the general view of an ethnic or religios group of people).

 

Many Norwegian journalists and leaders espouse the traditional mainstream European anti-Jewish attitudes. Norwegian anti-Semitism does not come from the grassroots but from the leadership - politicians, organization leaders, church leaders, and senior journalists. It does not come from Muslims but from the European-Christian society.

 

And once again at best a subjective opinion.

 

Fun tidbit of the day, I actually had Erez Uriely as a "teacher" in 1st year of highschool science. And before you hop to conclusions. The quotation marks is because he was in training, not yet a fully qualified teacher.

Despite the fact that the Norwegian law and constitution grant freedom of religion to everyone, Norway is one of the few countries in the world where Jewish ritual slaughter (shechita) of animals is forbidden. The ban was introduced three years before the Nazis took power in Germany and continues till today, whereas Muslim ceremonial slaughter (hallal) is permitted.

 

The only reason hallal slaughter is allowed is that they have agreed to anaesthetise the animal prior to cutting their throat. As such it isn't "true" hallal,, but a liveable compromise. The law of 1929 is a general law against kiloing animals without anaesthesia.

 

* Over the past thirty years, Norwegian media caricatures have sustained a high level of demonization of Jews and the state of Israel. These include portraying Jews as heartless, peace-hating, enemies of humanity, Nazi, bloodthirsty, child-killers, and controllers of the world. This trend has been rapidly increasing over the past years.

 

This is at best a subjective opinion. I cannot really remember seeing charicatures etc of jews. I have seen it about the state of Israel (again, that little tidbit. There is a difference between the views and actions of a political state and the general view of an ethnic or religios group of people).

 

Many Norwegian journalists and leaders espouse the traditional mainstream European anti-Jewish attitudes. Norwegian anti-Semitism does not come from the grassroots but from the leadership - politicians, organization leaders, church leaders, and senior journalists. It does not come from Muslims but from the European-Christian society.

 

And once again at best a subjective opinion.

 

Fun tidbit of the day, I actually had Erez Uriely as a "teacher" in 1st year of highschool science. And before you hop to conclusions. The quotation marks is because he was in training, not yet a fully qualified teacher.

 

 

Are you trying to deny that Norway has not been and is not an Anti-Semitic country?

 

 

I'm trying (though it appears in vain) to explain to you that the views on the politics of a government of a country does not necessarily mean said views are reflected upon people who may not even be of that nationality. Tip of the day. The world is not black and white. There is a whole lot of grey in various nuances.

@ Gabe

 

That would be ridiculous. Norway was occupied by the Nazi's under Quisling, so of course there is some anti-semitism in it's history; the same could be said for the rest Europe, from the Romans to the Middle Ages to beyond.

 

This is just as morally acceptable as you can get. If you say something is more morally acceptable than this, then you are clearly anti-semitic and there's something wrong with you, you sick [bleep].

Let me guess, you're angry because Norway are copying Israel's style?

 

Seriously Gabe, I don't think many straight thinking people can sympathise with a country based on religious extremist values, that uses terrorism and lying as a state policy, and gains most of its support by paying lobbyists to strangle the USA. I find it even more distasteful that the Israeli populace approve of Netanyahu (foreign policy-wise), whose settlement building and total refusal to co-operate with the Palestinians whatsoever is astounding.

 

I think anyone who truly believes in Israel's existence should watch what this leading (though deceased) academic has to say, before they listen to some radical racist like Melanie Phillips (a British ultra-Zionist who claims that a) opponents of Israel are all anti-Semitic, and b) London is being taken over by Muslims).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anOMM5S6NMw&feature=related

A Jew can stop being a Jew, no? If you want to live, stop being a Jew. Hide your jew goods and pretent to be a mild muslim man.

 

 

Should work out pretty good, no?

How did we go from analyzing a person's claims, to discussing the nature of terrorism and moral shades of grey, to outright accusing nations of radical beliefs?

 

No seriously, that's a bit ridiculous.

How did we go from analyzing a person's claims, to discussing the nature of terrorism and moral shades of grey, to outright accusing nations of radical beliefs?

 

No seriously, that's a bit ridiculous.

At least we haven't forayed into "does God exist" yet lol.

I don't like the 'yet' in that statement. D:

I don't like the 'yet' in that statement. D:

Because that's one of the great certainties of TIF OT: "Every serious thread will degrade into religion bashing or "does God exist" at some point".

 

 

Anyway, let's stay on topic.

How did we go from analyzing a person's claims, to discussing the nature of terrorism and moral shades of grey, to outright accusing nations of radical beliefs?

 

No seriously, that's a bit ridiculous.

There is absolutely nothing ridiculous about it. Zionism, the philosophy upon which Israel was founded, is a radical interpretation of Judaism and the rights of the Jewish people in much the same way that Qutbism or Islamic fundamentalism is with regards to Islam. The only difference is that our governments support the former ideology. Please do watch the video I posted if you're in any doubt.

Are you trying to deny that Norway has not been and is not an Anti-Semitic country?

Appeal to ridicule. And not even a good one at that; you make it sound like everyone knows Norway is an antisemitic country. Your posts are poorly thought out and argued; you are trying to convince us with the most vague of statements. There's a "greedy Jew" trend in the newspaper and you expect us to believe that based on a quote? And did you find nothing better to say to that picture of a Palestinian child facing a soldier than to call the poster names?

How did we go from analyzing a person's claims, to discussing the nature of terrorism and moral shades of grey, to outright accusing nations of radical beliefs?

 

No seriously, that's a bit ridiculous.

There is absolutely nothing ridiculous about it. Zionism, the philosophy upon which Israel was founded, is a radical interpretation of Judaism and the rights of the Jewish people in much the same way that Qutbism or Islamic fundamentalism is with regards to Islam. The only difference is that our governments support the former ideology. Please do watch the video I posted if you're in any doubt.

 

My issue was how this got completely off topic when people started attacking the entire country of Norway for being 'antisemetic' when this topic was originally about terrorism.

 

Your post is a bit like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_Ot0k4XJc

 

Factually correct, but so out of place and so very awkward.

How did we go from analyzing a person's claims, to discussing the nature of terrorism and moral shades of grey, to outright accusing nations of radical beliefs?

 

No seriously, that's a bit ridiculous.

There is absolutely nothing ridiculous about it. Zionism, the philosophy upon which Israel was founded, is a radical interpretation of Judaism and the rights of the Jewish people in much the same way that Qutbism or Islamic fundamentalism is with regards to Islam. The only difference is that our governments support the former ideology. Please do watch the video I posted if you're in any doubt.

 

My issue was how this got completely off topic when people started attacking the entire country of Norway for being 'antisemetic' when this topic was originally about terrorism.

 

Your post is a bit like this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_Ot0k4XJc

 

Factually correct, but so out of place and so very awkward.

My aim, though I didn't state it (foolishly), was to try and shut up all those people who'll accuse people of anti-Semitism for little to no reason, as if they're programmed just to randomly shout the phrase whenever someone criticises Israel.

My aim, though I didn't state it (foolishly), was to try and shut up all those people who'll accuse people of anti-Semitism for little to no reason, as if they're programmed just to randomly shout the phrase whenever someone criticises Israel.

 

Or is pro-Israel, apparently.

Fairly done and I apologize.

Heh, Jeffrey Goldberg, someone who served in the Israeli army and is a staunch Zionist; someone with whom I disagree with on almost everything related to Israel, posted this this morning:

 

The Texas Congressman and the Israeli Fascist

 

Kinda funny that he points out the same thing I pointed out earlier. There is a merging of rabid right wing Zionists in Israel with religious right wing Christians. The latter of whom are antisemitic, yet are welcomed in the Knesset with open arms.

I'm trying (though it appears in vain) to explain to you that the views on the politics of a government of a country does not necessarily mean said views are reflected upon people who may not even be of that nationality. Tip of the day. The world is not black and white. There is a whole lot of grey in various nuances.

 

I do wish the world was black and white, and you are most certainly correct, it's not. You're absolutely correct that the views of the government does not often reflect upon the people of that nationality. If I ever gave the nudge that I was disagreeing with that, then I'm sorry.

 

@ Gabe

 

That would be ridiculous. Norway was occupied by the Nazi's under Quisling, so of course there is some anti-semitism in it's history; the same could be said for the rest Europe, from the Romans to the Middle Ages to beyond.

 

Except a lot of the laws were passed before the Nazis were in control of anything or even formed. Your second statement about Europe is correct.

 

 

This is just as morally acceptable as you can get. If you say something is more morally acceptable than this, then you are clearly anti-semitic and there's something wrong with you, you sick [bleep].

 

I don't even know what to say to you anymore. You find one statement or picture you like that discriminates Israel, and you post it to try and generalize that all of them do it. Have you ever thought that using human shields is illegal? The cases with human shields are documented and the soldiers are tried. It's called a justice system. Not every person is a good apple.

 

Let me guess, you're angry because Norway are copying Israel's style?

 

Seriously Gabe, I don't think many straight thinking people can sympathise with a country based on religious extremist values, that uses terrorism and lying as a state policy, and gains most of its support by paying lobbyists to strangle the USA.

 

I cannot truly take you seriously when you say that a country uses terrorism and lying as a state policy without a good amount of evidence to back that ridicules claim. As for t he lobbyist, yes. I am quite aware that there are many lobbyists that are pro-Israel and try to convince the Senators to support them, but it's still the Senator's choice one way or another. This is how America was built; on freedom of press, religion, and speech. This includes ideologies that you believe in.

 

I find it even more distasteful that the Israeli populace approve of Netanyahu (foreign policy-wise), whose settlement building and total refusal to co-operate with the Palestinians whatsoever is astounding.

 

No evidence again.

 

I think anyone who truly believes in Israel's existence should watch what this leading (though deceased) academic has to say, before they listen to some radical racist like Melanie Phillips (a British ultra-Zionist who claims that a) opponents of Israel are all anti-Semitic, and b) London is being taken over by Muslims).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anOMM5S6NMw&feature=related

 

I think anyone who truly believes in Israel's existance should also watch this:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ_ozDPtAgc.

 

Don't worry, the English subtitles are on the top left corner.

 

Are you trying to deny that Norway has not been and is not an Anti-Semitic country?

Appeal to ridicule. And not even a good one at that; you make it sound like everyone knows Norway is an antisemitic country. Your posts are poorly thought out and argued; you are trying to convince us with the most vague of statements. There's a "greedy Jew" trend in the newspaper and you expect us to believe that based on a quote?

 

I did not have time to write long posts yesterday, and I apologize. However, I did post a link to read about Norway's history a bit more in depth. It's not my fault if you chose not to read it.

 

And did you find nothing better to say to that picture of a Palestinian child facing a soldier than to call the poster names?

That's because that poster is pure propaganda.

His evidence for a personal opinion about Netanyahu is self-evident. Try proving he's wrong.

 

He's guilty of generalising based on anecdotal evidence? How many times have you done that exact same thing for Hamas and the rest of Palestine?

 

Or does that only work when it's Israel being criticised for illegalities of war?

His evidence for a personal opinion about Netanyahu is self-evident. Try proving he's wrong.

 

He's guilty of generalising based on anecdotal evidence? How many times have you done that exact same thing for Hamas and the rest of Palestine?

 

Or does that only work when it's Israel being criticised for illegalities of war?

 

Pardon? I've put sources and examples down citing incidents. And when I was asked for one for a specific remark, I have been providing them. So no, it doesn't work.

 

EDIT:

I don't even know what to say to you anymore. You find one statement or picture you like that discriminates Israel, and you post it to try and generalize that all of them do it. Have you ever thought that using human shields is illegal? The cases with human shields are documented and the soldiers are tried. It's called a justice system. Not every person is a good apple.

I see that I missed a link. Here it is.

 

http://www.aljazeerah.info/News/2010/November/23%20n/Israeli%20Army%20Still%20Using%20Palestinian%20Children%20as%20Human%20Shields%20In%202010,%20a%20DCI%20Human%20Rights%20Report.htm