Dungeoneering As A Range Tank?

[Xems]

Well I'm currently 92 dungeoneering and would love to make a push for 99+ dungeoneering. Taking 1 hr+ long dungeons in w117 is no longer cutting it and is getting quite frustrating. But once logging into w148, I just felt intimidated and out of my league with all the high level 130s. This is because I am a level 120 range tank, with just 74 attack and strength. Because melee is the dominant form for dungeoneerers, my DPS is already inferior. Ranging has gotten me to level 92 dungeoneering in w117 but I feel like it won't be accepted in w148 since ot's the worst combat method in dungeoneering.

 

 

So as a range tank, what is the best method to dungeoneer. My current binds are an SSH, Sagg short bow, 120 Sagg arrows. My total level is 2375, so I know I can be helpful skill wise.

 

My current method is not to key. I start out ranging until I gather enough coins to buy 1k rune ess, I then make fire surge runes. I switch between range and fire surge when necessary.

 

 

 

Main questions:

 

 

---- Non keyer -----

- Should I just melee with Katagon weapons, Range with Sagg bow and arrows, or Mage with fire Surge.

- What should my binds be (as non keyer)?

- What type of Ring should I use?

 

----Keyer----

- If my better option was to be a keyer, what should my combat attack be?

- As a keyer, what should my binds be?

- What type of Ring would I use?

 

 

 

Current stats:

 

[Quyneax]

As a range tank you should focus on magic. Bind a celestial catalytic staff and csb charged with 225 surges. Have a hood as second bind.

[Xems]

As a range tank you should focus on magic. Bind a celestial catalytic staff and csb charged with 225 surges. Have a hood as second bind.

 

In result, have nothing against most of the rangers and mages right?

[MrGreens]

As a range tank you should focus on magic. Bind a celestial catalytic staff and csb charged with 225 surges. Have a hood as second bind.

 

In result, have nothing against most of the rangers and mages right?

tell the melee'ers to get off mage weak monsters

[Quyneax]

You can mage mages with sufficient magic attack bonus, or fletch a bow. At your melees, with a katagon 2h on defensive, you might as well have nothing against mages and rangers anyway. Though you should rarely have to fight mages, just like your primal-wielding teammates shouldn't have to fight brutes or primal warriors with you in the room.

[Xems]

You can mage mages with sufficient magic attack bonus, or fletch a bow. At your melees, with a katagon 2h on defensive, you might as well have nothing against mages and rangers anyway. Though you should rarely have to fight mages, just like your primal-wielding teammates shouldn't have to fight brutes or primal warriors with you in the room.

 

Hmm, that makes sense. I'm still somewhat worried about my team raging at me because of my items lol. But then again, it's better than what I currently use.

 

If I learned to key well, you still suggest the same binds for keying right? I'm pretty sure I'd need the same binds for it.

 

Happen to have any info for the 2 type of rings I should use?

[LitterBug]

You can mage mages with sufficient magic attack bonus, or fletch a bow. At your melees, with a katagon 2h on defensive, you might as well have nothing against mages and rangers anyway. Though you should rarely have to fight mages, just like your primal-wielding teammates shouldn't have to fight brutes or primal warriors with you in the room.

 

Hmm, that makes sense. I'm still somewhat worried about my team raging at me because of my items lol. But then again, it's better than what I currently use.

 

If I learned to key well, you still suggest the same binds for keying right? I'm pretty sure I'd need the same binds for it.

 

Happen to have any info for the 2 type of rings I should use?

 

Blazer as your primary, and if you're going to be on defensive - it's not worth going melee for

Hope for a hex? That's the only way that range is going to be really viable on a team.

However, even so - I've never heard of hex/mage combos D:

[Obtaurian]

With a sagittarian bow, you are useless to your team. You have decent DPS against forgotten mages, and that's about it. Get a celestial catalytic staff, do that quest for the extra ammo bind, and start picking up elemental runes between attacks. If you're keying, an empowered fire staff would probably be better (assuming you're keying ~25 minute floors or faster and you're never not keying). My third bind guide details CCS use, but the Tip.it version of it is a little outdated. Get t10 blazer ASAP.

 

Basically, ranged is useless without a hex. With fire surge and a CCS, you'll be pretty effective against most monsters, though still not as effective as you could be if you used melee.

 

148 teams are only slightly faster than 117 teams in general.

[Xems]

With a sagittarian bow, you are useless to your team. You have decent DPS against forgotten mages, and that's about it. Get a celestial catalytic staff, do that quest for the extra ammo bind, and start picking up elemental runes between attacks. If you're keying, an empowered fire staff would probably be better (assuming you're keying ~25 minute floors or faster and you're never not keying). My third bind guide details CCS use, but the Tip.it version of it is a little outdated. Get t10 blazer ASAP.

 

Basically, ranged is useless without a hex. With fire surge and a CCS, you'll be pretty effective against most monsters, though still not as effective as you could be if you used melee.

 

148 teams are only slightly faster than 117 teams in general.

 

Thanks so much, all my questions are answered.

[All_Is_Great]

With a sagittarian bow, you are useless to your team. You have decent DPS against forgotten mages, and that's about it. Get a celestial catalytic staff, do that quest for the extra ammo bind, and start picking up elemental runes between attacks. If you're keying, an empowered fire staff would probably be better (assuming you're keying ~25 minute floors or faster and you're never not keying). My third bind guide details CCS use, but the Tip.it version of it is a little outdated. Get t10 blazer ASAP.

 

Basically, ranged is useless without a hex. With fire surge and a CCS, you'll be pretty effective against most monsters, though still not as effective as you could be if you used melee.

 

148 teams are only slightly faster than 117 teams in general.

 

Tbh I find 148 teams a lot faster than 117. I'd assume on 117 your larges would average 1hr, but on 148 I can constantly key 25-30 mins with a team of 4 randoms.

 

Although I do require 100+ dg on my team, but I don't know how much that factors into floor times.

 

Just saying they're not THAT slow to the point of unbearable (117)

[Sly_Wizard]

*ahem*

 

FIRE. SURGING. WITH. A. CCS. IS. A. WASTE.

 

You're going to spend-- at the very least-- five minutes making fire runes.

[All_Is_Great]

You're not supposed to only use fire surge.

 

There's usually water/earth runes on the start table. Then you loot whichever elemental rune you can find + rune ess. You can make fire runes if you have absolutely nothing else to do, or come along a runecrafting altar.

[Quyneax]

*ahem*

 

FIRE. SURGING. WITH. A. CCS. IS. A. WASTE.

 

You're going to spend-- at the very least-- five minutes making fire runes.

5 minutes of making fire runes is like 5000 essence crafted - you don't have enough csb charge to use them all up.

 

As All is Great said, drops should provide most of your runes. As a keyer, you aren't around gds as much so emp fire might be worth it, but even water surge +30% damage maxes above fire surge +10% damage (312 vs 308).

[LitterBug]

*ahem*

 

FIRE. SURGING. WITH. A. CCS. IS. A. WASTE.

 

You're going to spend-- at the very least-- five minutes making fire runes.

 

How many fire runes are you making?

 

It never takes more then 10-15 seconds or so to make all your astral/cosmic/laws

It shouldn't take that much more to make you fires.

Also, with a decent team - people will make you fires when you're idle (or if you dg with the same group of people - ask them to in the beginning)

[Sly_Wizard]

*ahem*

 

FIRE. SURGING. WITH. A. CCS. IS. A. WASTE.

 

You're going to spend-- at the very least-- five minutes making fire runes.

5 minutes of making fire runes is like 5000 essence crafted - you don't have enough csb charge to use them all up.

 

As All is Great said, drops should provide most of your runes. As a keyer, you aren't around gds as much so emp fire might be worth it, but even water surge +30% damage maxes above fire surge +10% damage (312 vs 308).

 

This is where I point and laugh.

 

First of all, I have closer to the OP's stats than anyone else here and probably do more maging in-dungeon (though I haven't done dung in a while) than anyone else here. Second of all, anyone who says you can get through a dungeon mostly maging by picking up runes along the way simply doesn't know what they're talking about. All of the surge spells, sans air surge, require 10 elemental runes of some kind (either water, earth or fire). That means a mere five casts of any non-wind surge surge spell is going to cost you fifty elemental runes. Even assuming you kill everything in a mere five casts-- an absurd assumption-- and your party members give you every elemental rune drop-- a waste of time for them to do-- you're not going to find enough runes to cover the amount of runes you lose casting. Period. You WILL run out of elemental runes, and then you will either have to make more or you will be relegated to using wind surge, which brings me to my next point. 225 fire surges is 2,250 fire runes. Assuming you get three fire runes per essence (thirty fires per 10 essence), that's 750 essence you have to buy. At 50 coins each, that's 37.5K. Depending on the map, you can find that either within seconds of starting the dungeon via a gratuitous drop or a locked chest, or it can take you five minutes of searching or more. Now, assuming it takes you three minutes to find 37.5K, it'lll take you another one to two minutes to craft those essence into runes. That's time lost making runes that you could have spent being some kind of help to your team.

[Quyneax]

Let's say you have elemental runes for 40% air surge and 20% of each other elemental surge. Your average max is now 317,2. That's better than the 308 from emp fire + fire surge.

 

You need around a third fire surge casts and the rest air surge casts for ccs to be better than emp fire.

[ghjkl]

*ahem*

 

FIRE. SURGING. WITH. A. CCS. IS. A. WASTE.

 

You're going to spend-- at the very least-- five minutes making fire runes.

5 minutes of making fire runes is like 5000 essence crafted - you don't have enough csb charge to use them all up.

 

As All is Great said, drops should provide most of your runes. As a keyer, you aren't around gds as much so emp fire might be worth it, but even water surge +30% damage maxes above fire surge +10% damage (312 vs 308).

 

This is where I point and laugh.

 

First of all, I have closer to the OP's stats than anyone else here and probably do more maging in-dungeon (though I haven't done dung in a while) than anyone else here. Second of all, anyone who says you can get through a dungeon mostly maging by picking up runes along the way simply doesn't know what they're talking about. All of the surge spells, sans air surge, require 10 elemental runes of some kind (either water, earth or fire). That means a mere five casts of any non-wind surge surge spell is going to cost you fifty elemental runes. Even assuming you kill everything in a mere five casts-- an absurd assumption-- and your party members give you every elemental rune drop-- a waste of time for them to do-- you're not going to find enough runes to cover the amount of runes you lose casting. Period. You WILL run out of elemental runes, and then you will either have to make more or you will be relegated to using wind surge, which brings me to my next point. 225 fire surges is 2,250 fire runes. Assuming you get three fire runes per essence (thirty fires per 10 essence), that's 750 essence you have to buy. At 50 coins each, that's 37.5K. Depending on the map, you can find that either within seconds of starting the dungeon via a gratuitous drop or a locked chest, or it can take you five minutes of searching or more. Now, assuming it takes you three minutes to find 37.5K, it'lll take you another one to two minutes to craft those essence into runes. That's time lost making runes that you could have spent being some kind of help to your team.

You craft 10 essence per game tick.

To use craft 750 essence into fire runes would take 75 game ticks or 45 seconds.

Please stop making [cabbage] up.

You are going to spend -at the very most- 45 seconds making fire runes.

[Mini_Spawn]

*ahem*

 

FIRE. SURGING. WITH. A. CCS. IS. A. WASTE.

 

You're going to spend-- at the very least-- five minutes making fire runes.

5 minutes of making fire runes is like 5000 essence crafted - you don't have enough csb charge to use them all up.

 

As All is Great said, drops should provide most of your runes. As a keyer, you aren't around gds as much so emp fire might be worth it, but even water surge +30% damage maxes above fire surge +10% damage (312 vs 308).

 

This is where I point and laugh.

 

First of all, I have closer to the OP's stats than anyone else here and probably do more maging in-dungeon (though I haven't done dung in a while) than anyone else here. Second of all, anyone who says you can get through a dungeon mostly maging by picking up runes along the way simply doesn't know what they're talking about. All of the surge spells, sans air surge, require 10 elemental runes of some kind (either water, earth or fire). That means a mere five casts of any non-wind surge surge spell is going to cost you fifty elemental runes. Even assuming you kill everything in a mere five casts-- an absurd assumption-- and your party members give you every elemental rune drop-- a waste of time for them to do-- you're not going to find enough runes to cover the amount of runes you lose casting. Period. You WILL run out of elemental runes, and then you will either have to make more or you will be relegated to using wind surge, which brings me to my next point. 225 fire surges is 2,250 fire runes. Assuming you get three fire runes per essence (thirty fires per 10 essence), that's 750 essence you have to buy. At 50 coins each, that's 37.5K. Depending on the map, you can find that either within seconds of starting the dungeon via a gratuitous drop or a locked chest, or it can take you five minutes of searching or more. Now, assuming it takes you three minutes to find 37.5K, it'lll take you another one to two minutes to craft those essence into runes. That's time lost making runes that you could have spent being some kind of help to your team.

You craft 10 essence per game tick.

To use craft 750 essence into fire runes would take 75 game ticks or 45 seconds.

Please stop making [cabbage] up.

You are going to spend -at the very most- 45 seconds making fire runes.

 

 

ahh logic how i love thee