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Tip.It Times - 4th December 2011


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#1
tripsis
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Time for a new release of the: >>>Tip.It Times!<<<

NOW ACCEPTING ARTWORK/COMICS:
The Tip.It Times is now accepting submissions of artwork and comics. If you would like to make a submission, please PM it to tripsis.

I'd like to remind people of the rules pertaining to Times threads:

Read these rules before posting in this thread


When replying please make sure to clarify the article you are replying to! Thanks!

If you spot any typos or mistakes in the article then please PM them to me :)

Enjoy the articles!
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#2
Ginger_Warrior
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Fascinating article by ALG, and completely agreed.

The real problem with Magic has always been affordability. Unless you're tackling monsters which drop vast amounts of cash, it's impossible to offset the cost of runes. This problem was offset in Dungeoneering by the CSB, perhaps something akin to that is needed outside of Daemonheim. The problem is, if Jagex focused on mid-game content in order to incentivise lower players and balance a skill's potential across all levels, people here would [bleep] to no end about it, and they'd start complaining that they're not receiving their slice of the pie again.

#3
Erewhon2
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In response to the 'Master of None' article, I'm not sure I grasp all of it as I have never played the other games the author compares RS to. I do agree that game styles change with how individual players and groups of players use their skills as they advance. I disagree about the references to leveling up in some skills being a 'money sink' that point is player choice and is a direct indication of power leveling, again this is a player choice. All skills can be leveled at a low cost or even free if you are not in a hurry.

As for the 'Lets Play a Game' article, I was quite interested at first and then disappointingly it deteriorated into another 'give more to F2P' speech. Oh yes it was couched in diplomatic terms and tried to make some argument about improving the game for F2P as a good business strategy. But basically it's starting to look like Tip.it Times is following a theme, yes I hear it....I've heard it to death on the forum threads. What little sympathy I have felt for F2P is being slowly strangled by the rants and general overkill on the subject. I disagree with the article and the arguments, the author has obviously not been on the F2P worlds at the same times I have, when they have been busy, friendly and very active (since the bot busting). The P2P log in numbers equate well with what I used to see prior to the bot invasion. Also there have been appropriate updates for F2P, graphical, general game content and quests.
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#4
Zaaps1
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Anyone else not understand the DYK fact?

#5
Sir_Squab
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Find it ironic that mage and herblore are in my top 3 highest skills.

As for F2P... something needs to be done about it, but I'm not sure what that something is.

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#6
pal2002
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Article on f2p - wonderfully written and desperately needed to remind jagex and all the 'f2p players deserve nothing' camp of some basic truths. The game is dying and has been dying for a long time. The only way to keep this decline away longer is to attract new players - something jagex will never do directly to p2p. With f2p's current state, soo many better choices exist out there.

The more jagex and (a part of) the community hate on f2p, the faster the game is going to die.
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#7
Guest_jrhairychest_
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As for the 'Lets Play a Game' article, I was quite interested at first and then disappointingly it deteriorated into another 'give more to F2P' speech. Oh yes it was couched in diplomatic terms and tried to make some argument about improving the game for F2P as a good business strategy. But basically it's starting to look like Tip.it Times is following a theme, yes I hear it....I've heard it to death on the forum threads. What little sympathy I have felt for F2P is being slowly strangled by the rants and general overkill on the subject. I disagree with the article and the arguments, the author has obviously not been on the F2P worlds at the same times I have, when they have been busy, friendly and very active (since the bot busting). The P2P log in numbers equate well with what I used to see prior to the bot invasion. Also there have been appropriate updates for F2P, graphical, general game content and quests.


Completely agree. What I don't get is that all of a sudden - F2P is crap. In the last few months, the same posters are complaining that F2P is this, that and the other. Yet, they all started there and it seemed to be good enough for them then. And what's all this decision making for those who haven't played before or are just playing? I say let new players be the judges of whether they like it or not, not some small cohort of the Tipit community who either don't play any more or have rather large Jagex chips on their shoulders.

#8
theoxman2
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The irony about the first article is.. when I first started playing this game back in 2007-2008 there were so many people complaining that there wasnt enough content for high level players... and it seems Jagex answered that by adding more content for high levels plus master and grandmaster quests..

Now people are saying there isnt enough mid/low level content.

But for herblore.. it sounds like the author is saying the only way to make things matter would be to make em non tradeable. If the high level potions were tradeable wouldnt that make the skill just as useless at high level as it is midlevel?

So to make skills more relevant should more things become untradable?

#9
Alg
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The irony about the first article is.. when I first started playing this game back in 2007-2008 there were so many people complaining that there wasnt enough content for high level players... and it seems Jagex answered that by adding more content for high levels plus master and grandmaster quests..

Now people are saying there isnt enough mid/low level content.

That isn't lost on me :ugeek:
There's plenty of low level content too. It's just that they added so much desirable high level content that the lack of mid-level content is noticeable. They did too well when it came to adding high level content :razz:

#10
cultjunky
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I liked both the editorials this week, I'd never thought about magic and herblore like that, but I have to agree.

As for the second article, I don't think it's just that the F2P game needs a revamp, nor is the 'investor issue' necessarily a bad thing, there's other aspects that need to be addressed too.

I've thought for a long time that were I to find RS today as I did 7/8 years ago, completely by chance, I might still stump up for membership, but one month in the P2P world and I would cancel. There's such a gap between new players levels and the majority of players that it would seem a mountainous task to compete. I've wondered about having levelled worlds where you can only access certain playing worlds if you are of a certain level or can't access other worlds if you are above a certain level. One downside might be wildy, but if you're a level 30 in the wild, I'd have a pop at you when I'm chasing penguins naked! One plus side could be for the player mods. If they could access all worlds, they could populate the lower levelled worlds to do what they were supposed to do, help!

At the end of the day, if you enjoy the F2P game, complete all the quests, you're going to enjoy the P2P game - up to a point. That point being that the high level players are in much greater numbers than those just in the middling 60-100. Think about the last time you saw a player of level 50 or less. I honestly can't remember when I did. No wonder there is a huge marketing attack to try to retain P2P players, much more than there is on gaining new players. I'd be interested to see some data on how many people try the f2p game, complete the quests, and then switch to p2p, and keep membership for just one month. Or some data on how large a percentage of members have the veterans cape. I still believe that RS is a good game, for a gazillion reasons, but most of those reasons relate to how long I've played and the levels I've attained. If I were to recommend RS to a new player, I'd feel I had to add the caveat that they need to stick at it for a while.
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#11
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Mark Rosewater wrote an article today that covered a very similar topic (relevant to both of this week's articles): http://www.wizards.c...tg/daily/mm/172

Magic: The Gathering struggled for a few years with a decreasing playerbase because the cards they were designing for established players were gradually raising the game's complexity level and increasing the barrier to entry for new players.

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R&D responded by changing their design philosophy to be more conscious of the new player's experience, and since then, sales and tournament attendance have both risen to an all-time high.

In RuneScape, the problem's not complexity, but the root cause (catering to established players but neglecting the newbies) is the same, and I strongly believe that it's going to take a comparable paradigm shift for Jagex to turn things around.

#12
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Wow, that "did you know" was the most useless I have ever seen.

#13
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Anyone else not understand the DYK fact?


You don't turn back into human form to complete the teleport animation. Instead, you turn back into human form when you arrive at your destination. Usually, you complete teleport animations in human form. And I agree, it's a useless fact. :P

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#14
Azura_Skyy
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Alg and Jonanananas' articles aren't so different. If we look into them we can see clearly what they are pointing at; the same problems in RuneScape.

It would be hard to argue that range and mage aren't underpowered in F2P and potentially overpowered in P2P.
Jagex has made combat increasingly more interesting in their P2P version and offered a vast variety of gears and spells to help the rusher in the wilderness. Between the multi-cast Storm of Armadyl spell (I mean the glitch (I know its patched), but the spell is very powerful too) and the Dark bow special attack 2-hit, Jagex has managed to make powerful (if not overpowered) range and mage attack methods. There is no doubt that melee receives a great deal of attention in P2P as well and needs little to no updating in F2P.

That being said, I can't help but notice as a long time F2P pure, that the combat "triangle" in f2p is more like a V, with melee being the dominant at the point of the "V."
Mage needs heavy updating in F2P and has only been slightly helped with the addition of dungeoneering rewards. I would argue that Ranged hasn't been helped since the day it was released (especially considering the lack of rune arrows in F2P).

Before I continue, I would like to inform the potential readers of this that I am trying to be objective (which I think I am considering I don't raise range or mage on my F2P pure).

F2P remains heavily outdated, especially in the area of the game that most players focus on, which is; *drumroll* COMBAT!

It has become clear in the past three weeks that players who write for the tip.it times are concerned for the longevity of RuneScape's F2P game as well as the game as a whole (P2P). Jagex's inconsistency in treatment (after claims) to F2P leaves many to wonder where their hearts lay. Updating Magic both in F2P and P2P could offer a fresh feel to the combat aspect of the game that people focus on, and hell, since the Quests in F2P are so strayed from lore, why not make it a hard/grandmaster quest with medium requirements (high by the average f2p player or new to RS player). This would offer a beginning to a much needed solution.

Sincerely,
Azura-Skyy~

#15
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Anyone else not understand the DYK fact?


You don't turn back into human form to complete the teleport animation. Instead, you turn back into human form when you arrive at your destination. Usually, you complete teleport animations in human form. And I agree, it's a useless fact. :P


At least it's a fun little fact? :P Better than the one I suggested ages ago before it was fixed, I think... "Did you know Leo continues to have glasses on in the chatbox interface, while the character physically doesn't have them anymore?" :P

I have to admit, I feel in some ways F2P is just slowly being neglected when it should be one of the most attractive parts of the game as whole that would entice someone to join members to begin with. :-?

o_o Hope my fictional isn't boring anyone.

#16
Azura_Skyy
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I have to admit, I feel in some ways F2P is just slowly being neglected when it should be one of the most attractive parts of the game as whole that would entice someone to join members to begin with. :-?

o_o Hope my fictional isn't boring anyone.


I'm glad you feel that way about the F2P game. I hope I didn't sound like I was asking for things, as people often make it seem, I only wish for the games longevity. If Jagex can find a way to keep the advertisements "unobtrusive" and find a way to keep F2P fresh and inviting to new players without adding any content, I'm fine with that as long as I have my favorite MMO. As a player since Oct 04 (spending 7 of my 18 years playing this game), I would be heart broken not to get to say at some point that I've played RuneScape for 50% of my life.

TL;DR: I want longevity, not necessarily new content.

In addition ForsakenMage- I plan to read your fictional piece at some point. As an aspiring fictional writer (though not RuneScape), I feel it only proper to offer feedback and compliments to someone who according to the comments I've read, has talent.

It may take me a week or more to get to- but by the time the final piece of your story is unveiled, I hope to offer my compliments.

Sincerely,
Azura Skyy~

#17
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I have to admit, I feel in some ways F2P is just slowly being neglected when it should be one of the most attractive parts of the game as whole that would entice someone to join members to begin with. :-?

o_o Hope my fictional isn't boring anyone.


I'm glad you feel that way about the F2P game. I hope I didn't sound like I was asking for things, as people often make it seem, I only wish for the games longevity. If Jagex can find a way to keep the advertisements "unobtrusive" and find a way to keep F2P fresh and inviting to new players without adding any content, I'm fine with that as long as I have my favorite MMO. As a player since Oct 04 (spending 7 of my 18 years playing this game), I would be heart broken not to get to say at some point that I've played RuneScape for 50% of my life.

TL;DR: I want longevity, not necessarily new content.

In addition ForsakenMage- I plan to read your fictional piece at some point. As an aspiring fictional writer (though not RuneScape), I feel it only proper to offer feedback and compliments to someone who according to the comments I've read, has talent.

It may take me a week or more to get to- but by the time the final piece of your story is unveiled, I hope to offer my compliments.

Sincerely,
Azura Skyy~


Oh no, I didn't take what you said that way at all! I was free-to-play for quite a while myself before finally switching over (good lord, and I'm entering my eleventh year of playing the game soon yikes). What attracted me was the simplicity of the game itself, and eventually wanting more content after over nine years, I went P2P. I still appreciate F2P for the many hours of entertainment it provided me back then, but now I feel a bit disgusted with how it's been treated recently too (it's like it's being slowly stamped out of existence and being stifled with in-game advertisements like "Congratulations on reaching level 10 mining! Why don't you go sign up for members and get your free Dwarven Army Axe!").

Thank you for the kind words! And welcome to the forums hehe. ^_^

#18
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I have to admit, I feel in some ways F2P is just slowly being neglected when it should be one of the most attractive parts of the game as whole that would entice someone to join members to begin with. :-?

o_o Hope my fictional isn't boring anyone.


I'm glad you feel that way about the F2P game. I hope I didn't sound like I was asking for things, as people often make it seem, I only wish for the games longevity. If Jagex can find a way to keep the advertisements "unobtrusive" and find a way to keep F2P fresh and inviting to new players without adding any content, I'm fine with that as long as I have my favorite MMO. As a player since Oct 04 (spending 7 of my 18 years playing this game), I would be heart broken not to get to say at some point that I've played RuneScape for 50% of my life.

TL;DR: I want longevity, not necessarily new content.

In addition ForsakenMage- I plan to read your fictional piece at some point. As an aspiring fictional writer (though not RuneScape), I feel it only proper to offer feedback and compliments to someone who according to the comments I've read, has talent.

It may take me a week or more to get to- but by the time the final piece of your story is unveiled, I hope to offer my compliments.

Sincerely,
Azura Skyy~


Oh no, I didn't take what you said that way at all! I was free-to-play for quite a while myself before finally switching over (good lord, and I'm entering my eleventh year of playing the game soon yikes). What attracted me was the simplicity of the game itself, and eventually wanting more content after over nine years, I went P2P. I still appreciate F2P for the many hours of entertainment it provided me back then, but now I feel a bit disgusted with how it's been treated recently too (it's like it's being slowly stamped out of existence and being stifled with in-game advertisements like "Congratulations on reaching level 10 mining! Why don't you go sign up for members and get your free Dwarven Army Axe!").

Thank you for the kind words! And welcome to the forums hehe. ^_^


Yeah. As I've said on another thread, I don't think Jagex cares about the impression it's giving as long as revenue is high. They like to say that isn't the case, but they say one thing and do another. One advertisement pop-up (out of how many in the whole F2P game?) isn't really intrusive to F2P game experience. Removal of hi-scores is much more intrusive, though. It'll take a considerable loss of revenue connected to an update for them to change their minds. <_< And that's not possible since F2P don't pay D:

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#19
Azura_Skyy
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Yeah. As I've said on another thread, I don't think Jagex cares about the impression it's giving as long as revenue is high. They like to say that isn't the case, but they say one thing and do another. One advertisement pop-up (out of how many in the whole F2P game?) isn't really intrusive to F2P game experience. Removal of hi-scores is much more intrusive, though. It'll take a considerable loss of revenue connected to an update for them to change their minds. <_< And that's not possible since F2P don't pay D:


However, F2P generated a reasonable $2.25 million in 2010 based on the Jagex revenue charts in an older tip.it times post. It may not be fair to attribute all of that to F2P players, but, keep in mind, most long-term players have multiple accounts. I had a members account up until the announcement of the hiscores going P2P. At that point, I unsubbed my P2P account (I had paid for four months on it and maybe logged in for ten hours (mostly on classic- the reason I bought p2p on that account)).

I know other people with similar situations or other people who straight up quit (both p2p and f2p). Jagex needs to understand that we aren't "units sold" as is the case with CoD, FF, RE, and other major titles and AAA games. We can't be "units sold" because they need us to be a recurring unit, and because of that, they have to respect us.

I will resubscribe on my members account if they change their attitude (and I won't even play on it- LOL. Your welcome Jagex).

I didn't say their ads are intrusive at the moment. They haven't been, and that has been a great thing. The Dwarven Army Axe ads (all three? or are there more?) are irritating only because Mod MMG's initial promises and claims that "F2P is not a demo," and "anyone should be able to enjoy it as its own game (possibly misquoted, but it was along these lines)" and stating that he would remove P2P advertisements in F2P worlds (for example: agility shortcuts, pick-pocket options). <-Dungeoneering went against this, as has the Dwarven army Axe.

F2P players want consistency in management. That isn't the issue though I guess. I rant and go off topic... In any event, F2P players aren't a burden on Jagex. If they lost money on us, do you really think that the often player proclaimed "demo" would be infinite?

Sincerely,
Azura Skyy~

P.S. ForsakenMage, this is a new account of mine on tip.it, though not the first. In any case, thanks for the welcome and acknowledgment.

#20
chenw
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I can see the point about People saying most of the content before were all geared at low levels, while nowadays most content are high levels. I am not disagreeing, but I feel Jagex aren't exactly guilty trying to keep up to the trend of the current RS population.

Back when I was most active (2005 - 2007), Maxed out players were few and far in between (the Z Vs N days) and majority of the player base had somewhat lower skill than some us have.

But now, that trend is changing. Maxed out players number in the thousand. I consider my character to be somewhat medium high. Back in those days, my highest rank was in the 3000's, now it's 30,000's. This shows that the distribution of player base is shifting towards higher levels, and they eventually became a majority, thus Jagex would have to start catering for them, or else the complaints would get louder.

Yes, Jagex may be over doing it in the recent times, but they also need to stop making some of the low level content useless. Workshop series? Come on! It's the most labor intensive method of production in the game we have at the moment, and yet it's not worth the effort even if you went straight from ore to bar to finished product... at least make it a somewhat useful armor or chance to save runes of its type.

Also, Smithing is probably the epitome of Useful early and incredibly useless later on. You get a huge range of armor and weapons you can smith, from Bronze to Rune. But you can never hope to keep up smithing with your combat. For example, it takes level 30 defence to wear Adamant Platebody, yet it takes level 88 Smithing to make one. By the time you reach 88 defence, you would have been able to wear anything you want in the game. Where is Smithing at? Not even making Rune Scimitars. The skill needs a seriously major revamp, and probably have to be completely redesigned

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