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Tip.It Times - 3rd June 2012


tripsis

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Yeaaaaah... I'm not a fan of the first article. Sorry TS, but I was a little leery of it coming in because of how you had rant-advertised it beforehand in chat, and it was just as ranty and uninformative as I thought it might be. I don't especially like the SoF, but I'm definitely not convinced that it's a sign that Jagex is maliciously attempting to get us addicted to gambling to give them more money. I would much rather read a logical but calm argument about how the SoF is bad for Runescape than read a rant that uses just enough logic to appear to be valid when making drastic claims.

Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape.
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Alright my turn! I personally very much dislike the SoF and I never really put much thought on how much an add it really is and got is it ever!

 

First of all I remember how annoying it was at first and I couldn't help to wonder why it would pop up in my face all the time.... Anyways we all know this but here's how sad the SoF is : People say if you don't like it just ignore it or don't let it COMPROMISE your runescape experience. Surprise, surprise! WE DON'T HAVE THE JOY OF HAVING A COMPRISE. The antidote to the poison TS? Well like you said there aren't any so unfortunately because of one rather obscene update I have to sacrifice the upper left of my screen where I put the darn SoF so it doesn't pop up in my face evertime I log in... I FAIL TO SEE THE COMPRISE IN THIS....

 

So basically the SoF update for me just took a part of my screen... Think about that before you tell us "SoF hatters" to simply IGNORE it.

 

But here is the biggest irony of all in this weeks Tip.it times . The 3rd article was great, I felt like that for a very long time, like I had an unbearable amount of daily chores and THIS IS WHY I DON'T LIKE THE SoF it's just another chore in the book. Everyday when you log in, boom waste 3 minutes doing the SoF...

 

And for me that crossed the line, when my runescape time is precious the last thing I need is another update to bring up a chore for me..... And seriously as a member why the hell should I be paying for this ridiculous add!?

 

Love,

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My bad, then... But your response went from criticising my article to criticising a type of people... Not hard to see why I made the mistake there that it was directed at me :)

 

As for the hatred towards the SoF, you're not exactly right... Yes I hate it, but only because I know what it represents... My fear is that too few people know this with me...

 

No Worries :razz:

 

That's the trouble with the written word, you don't get to see the cheeky grin or the waving arms that might accompany a post, and give it a different tone.

 

No emoticon is a substitue, sadly.

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I already quite runescape about a month ago, not so much for the SoF updates though. That made me want to though. Jagex failed and did something stupid with a billing issue with me... it's a long story, but they locked me account and won't unlock it till i buy about $100 worth of jcoins.

 

it was just about $50, then it became more... that was the final straw. the fact they put no value of a jcoin nor tell you how much you owe... that bothers me

 

I have switched to playing world of tanks... it's a lot more fun. who hasn't ever wanted to drive a tank and blow other players up.... teams of 15 vs 15. tiers of 1 to 10, tier 1 tanks are weak as ever but only fight tier 1 and sometimes 2, get up to tier 10 and your fighting as low as tier 6 and up to 10.. so it varies. they also have clans too! all rs quitters come with me to WoT!!! :)

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The "Sequel of Fortune" really resounded with me, as I've written similar things myself.

 

Something I posted on the Runescape forums, about Jagex's micro transactions for the lotto system that is the "Squeal of Fortune".

 

"Naturally the team and I are saddened that some players are upset about free spins and some also dont like the ability to also purchase additional spins, however, the reality is 90% of our members are enjoying the Squeal of Fortune on a daily basis and over 70% of our free players utilise the Squeal of Fortune daily too - making it some of the most widely appreciated content release to date. The majority of our players also continue to take advantage of the many free ways to earn extra spins, so its certainly here to stay." - Mark Gerhard, http://services.runescape.com/m=news/sof-feedback-response

 

Really, Jagex? You add a lotto system into the game and just because almost everyone USES it you think they endorse it?

Imagine if you gave every single player a free 10k XP in a skill of their choice every single day - all they had to do was click a box that pops up when they log in.

Almost every single player would use it - but don't kid yourself into thinking that anyone approves of the idea. And oh wait, you already DID do that.

 

And you think that just because people are doing Evil Trees and Penguins that they like getting SoF tickets? That content was popular long before the SoF ever existed!

 

I am absolutely disgusted with you, Jagex, for so blindly misconstruing supposed data in favour of your own delusions of grandeur through micro transactions.

 

More than the all-too-common ability to purchase ingame lotto tickets with real world money, players appreciate developer integrity and respect for the community.

 

You, Jagex, have failed in both regards.

 

Additionally, if someone were to do the SoF a great number of times and record the total net worth and total XP gain, they could calculate the average amount of wealth and XP gained from each spin. That much is basic probability.

Now, however large those numbers are - whether it's 100XP or 2k XP, or 100GP or 2k GP - it's still an amount that can be bought for real money.

 

And THAT is the exploitation - buying ingame money and XP for real world money.

 

It's an exploitation because of the statements Jagex have been making for years - and that have mysteriously disappeared from everywhere - that a player's success in real life should have no bearing on their success in the game.

 

THAT is what made Runescape special to many players. Face it, Jagex, your MMO can't compare to most other MMOs - it has good questlines, but nearly everything else has been done better in other games. Especially since the monthly subsciption cost for RS is nearly that of most mainstream MMOs.

 

What made (and if you have any sense left, will continue to make) Runescape special is the integrity that Jagex have always shown when it comes to micro-transactions.

 

If you value your remaining player base, Jagex, I suggest you stay true to that past integrity and drop this foolish cloak-and-daggers scheme to give Runescape its debut to real-world trading.

 

-------------

 

And another point by Blazer19 that I strongly agree with:

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again--one of my biggest problems with the SoF update is that it is outright lazy and a slap in the face of all players, especially veterans.

 

Out of nowhere, this update was thrust into our faces with no real explanation or back story. This goblin with tons of stuff wants us to spin a wheel and give us things each and every day without any effort on our part. That's it. We didn't have to find him, never learned anything about where he came from, nothing. He's just available--somewhere in the ether--at all times.

 

One of my favorite things about Runescape has always been the quests and storylines. They span huge territories, time spans, and a multitude of races and provide me and many others great enjoyment. We know that JaGex has the ability to fit pieces of the game together seamlessly, but in this instance it seems like the storyline writers were kept in the dark while others put this update together.

 

As devoted players, we can all see the SoF update for what it is--a new method to gain money for JaGex, thinly veiled as a fun "minigame".

 

With his post, Mod Mark tried to defend the money-driven, lazy scheme known as the SoF, but I for one took it as yet another slap in the face to the dedicated players.

 

My first point of dissent is when he proclaims that JaGex has "succeeded" in making content that enhances the playing experience without undermining it. While it is nice to get free trinkets and XP, the SoF has no effect on my playing experience. I use it because I would be at a disadvantage not to, but if it were gone tomorrow I wouldn't bat an eye. And when it comes to what makes the game truly special--NO ONE can put a definition on that. We all play for different reasons, and while the SoF may not undermine one person's experience, it could undermine another's.

 

-----------

 

Admittedly, I come across as something of an idealist, but hey, that's just who I am.

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Save the Earth! It's the only planet with chocolate.

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Snip

 

If almost everyone uses it, how can you say they actually don't approve of it? SoF does not have to be spun in order to actually play Runescape, so if players are still spinning the wheel, they choose to do so voluntarily. Jagex only gives players the option to spin. You speak as if they're forcing it upon players.

 

Your experience lamp example is also a gross over-exaggeration. The only players that would complain about a free 10,000 exp lamp are those who bought and or trained for their levels. The chance of receiving an experience lamp, which is not always a potential prize, helps players out once a day just like random events do. The only exception is that they give more experience, but not by much. The large and huge lamps are rare and super rare for a reason.

 

On to your purchasing gold and experience point. You claim that the SoF allows players to inject their accounts with large amounts of experience and gold. This isn't the case. 1,000 - 5,000 are common prizes, but amounts higher than that are uncommon to super rare. Most players have to purchase 75 spins in order to see a super rare, but even then, uncommon to super rare prizes are constantly changing. The chance of potentially receiving gold or experience is just as likely as receiving a lucky item or cosmetic SoF exclusive.

 

Another reoccurring argument I see a lot is the "veteran" complaint. Who cares if gaining experience is much easier nowadays than in the past? Do you think new players want to grind like we did back in the day? Runecrafting was incredibly tedious before summoning and Runespan, but I am by no means angry at Jagex for making it marginally easier for new players to level up their skills.

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I think the complaint is centred around the fact that SoF is in your face upon login, unlike d&d's/tears of guth etc. that you have to physically travel to to take part in, most people spin the wheel to remove the annoying pop up every single time you log in, and if your lagging/busy irl you can't always remain logged in for long periods, I regularly have to hide the spin reminder 10-15+ a day, it does get very frustrating

If Tears appeared as a pop up and didn't require 100k xp/1Quest to use weekly, everyone would do that too I bet, there's helping players and giving lazy players an obvious advantage of xp/items/gp for doing nothing than logging into the game. As well as paying irl cash for more spins

Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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As well as paying irl cash for more spins

Which is the main problem that people have with the update. The ability to buy spins is a pretty big change, considering that for ~11 years this was the kind of game where your status in real life had no impact on how successful you would be... Though people conveniently leave out the fact that it's always been heavily biased toward people with lots of free time. Apparently that's fairer.

 

I don't actually like buying spins, but I also don't really care. I just dislike the aggressive marketing and the fact that they haven't been putting out much new content instead (Though the latter could probably be explained by the combat overhaul).

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The Squeal of Fortune is an incredibly minor portion of the game. Spinning it and receiving prizes takes less than a minute to do. Hiding it will also take a comparably insignificant amount of time. Face it guys, this thing is a really small update. Figuratively, it's a huge update that signifies a shift in Jagex's policies. Literally, though, it's 30 seconds per day.

 

I think that's my main complaint with it. If it's such a small part of the game, why must it be changed or have new items added to it on a near-daily basis? New rewards, spin tickets from quests, new limited time outfits, increased rewards, Mad May with 3 spins per day, Monkey cosmetic items, the Squeal of Neptune... If Jagex seriously has the time to do all of this, why can't they do some more simple updates, such as tiny fixes and improvements? If they have time to update the wheel every day, why can't they add some random rock to a part of the world which disturbs botters? While Guthix Sleeps was an amazing quest in my opinion. I would much rather have them focus on content like that rather than this wheel which constitutes less than 0.1% of my playtime.

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Snip
Snip

Looks like you are one of the very few who can intellectually argue FOR the SoF... Kudos to you, as you'll meet a lot of opposition... And I'm one of those...

 

The buyability of spins (and therefore XP/cash, however small amounts) is one issue, but it is one of many:

 

-It doesn't fit in the game, RS-universe wise

-It's an advertisement you can't escape, even on P2P, due to it re-appearing every time you log in/hop worlds

-It plays on people's sensitivities to gambling, especially with younger players

-It's RWT, even though you get a bad deal

-It's in every single aspect of RuneScape, save for Trading

-It's rigged

-It's misrepresenting the odds

-It's being lied and bullcrapped about by J-mods

-It's feedback is ignored or interpreted completely the wrong way

-It's obvious far more of this crap is to come

-The Rules of RS were changed, just for the SoF

 

Now, on to your points:

People spin to get rid of the ad. I X ads away, does that mean that, cuz I visit the site a lot that gives me the ad that I like the ad? I do'nt think so... jagex engineered this to be as in-your-face as possible, without stepping over the line... "Unfortunately, it is those that figure out how little cheese people will accept on their pizza that get rich" <--- remember that quote...

 

"The only players that would complain about a free 10,000 exp lamp are those who bought and or trained for their levels". You forget the large amount of players who play RS to actually, you know, play RS... it is not those who trained it, but also those who WANT to train it...

 

75 spins will fill most of your inventory with small and medium lamps (this was from before the upping of the rewards)... You can buy 900 spins a day now... I agree, it's a very bad deal, as a little chinese kid will make your account have much more GP and XP for much less dollars, but this way Jagex cannot ban you...

 

Veterans complain because they worked for it, and rightly so... EVEN an AFK-able skill as Runecrafting has become with the runespan, still means going to the runespan, getting a bunch of runes so you can travel to the correct island, and spending time there clicking the right nodes... AKA work... With the SoF all you need to do is spamclick that red button...

 

 

You may disagree with these counterpoints, but the vast majority of RS appears to agree with me... Although I doubt this will be a majority much longer, as many are quitting...

Former Leader of The Tal Shiar Alliance - An Original Tip.it Clan
Member of the Wilderness Guardians and Founder of the Silent Guardians
Founder of The Conclave - A Tip.it Clan institution
Tip.it Times author (click for all my articles) - When I use the wrong reasons to make the right statement, argue the reason, not the statement.
MSSW4 General - Did we kick your ass too?




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I think Jagex summed it up best all those years ago when they made there rules

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape."

Seems a far cry from what's happening now, maybe they should take a leaf from there own book and remove buyable spins if nothing else, but preferably the entire damned SoF update

Quest Cape Achieved 10/08/2012

TFU: Ruinous Edge

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A piece of glass in the sand under your feet, it cuts you deep and it makes you hate the beauty that you see.

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