Restructure of Smithing

[Reivaxlorp]

Hello Runetips!

 

Not long ago, I posted a discussion on the Runescape Official Forums about my thoughts on the Smithing Tables. I thought this topic could use brainstorming so I've decided to bring it here for anyone who is interested to discuss. I will also link my ROF here, but I ask and sincerely urge that we keep the discussion here; as I find this to be a more active and lively forum.

 

[qfc]74-75-596-63770028[/qfc]

 

Original Post by me:

"Hello Runescape Community!

 

I believe the smithing skill is in need of an overhaul. This suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with changing the Experience Gain or Items created from the smithing skill but rather to re-organize the skill itself to make more sense.

 

Now what my topic will center around is the lvl 99 requirement of a Rune Platebody. For reasons that I hope are a little too obvious to have to explain, I think the Rune Platebody sharing the lvl 99 requirement spot with 3 other rune items is insanely ridiculous. Smithing can be revered for being the only F2P skill that continues to provide all the way to max level, but what it provides is in no way appealing.

 

There's no logical reason that I can wield Rune Weapons and wear Rune Armour at 40 Attack/Defense respectively; but require a max skill to create them. Am I suggesting this because I desperately want Rune armour? No. I'm suggesting this because it's a little strange that I can Repair a Dragon Sq. Shield at lvl 60, Smith a Godsword at lvl 80, create one of the legendary Spirit Shields at lvl 85, and finally smith myself a Dragon Platebody at 92, but still be short of Rune.

 

It's completely understandable, Jagex started with a fantastic smithing skill and little by little updated to include new and better items but clearly had to stuff them in between the old Smithing Tables. I simply believe the old smithing tables have to be re-organized to their respective levels, maxing rune out at around 40. Besides what you can smith, quests like devious minds also have exceedingly large requirements for players who can already wield better gear.

 

Dragon does not have to become an Ore nor do any other items have to be re-considered. I simply think the smithing tables have to be adjusted to current date. I think this suggestion also needs feedback because this could realistically destroy the Smithing and Mining skills.

 

I appreciate any and all feedback, thank you.

~Reivax"

Edited June 5, 2012 by Lord Paul
Added QFC link

[Trey]

I've been barking up this tree for years.

 

E: As much as I would like to see this happen, I don't think it will. The xp rates for everything need to be re balanced if the tables are altered. Making full addy at 40 smithing and getting 250k/hr is too fast.

 

I guess they could give you access to full addy at 40 smithing and just introduce a "success rate". You get faster at making things as levels get higher.

 

Crude tables:

 

Bronze/Iron: 1-10

Steel: 11-20

Mithril: 21-30

Adamant: 31-40

Rune 41-50

[Reivaxlorp]

What are your thoughts on it Trey? I was also asked what I would do if the Rune Requirements were dropped to the 40-ish range and how I would adjust the skill to compensate for the huge number of craft-able items pre-40 and then the large drop off afterwards. What would you suggest for these issues?

[Blaze The Movie Fan]

Do you have any idea how easy money making would be if rune items require low level?

 

Rune bars aren't so hard to get they are uncommon drops from steel dragons. And if you are at high combat level like me, you wouldn't have a problem beating them.

[Reivaxlorp]

Well I thought it was generally assumed that once an item because easily accessibly, it's price generally takes an enormous plummet as demand drops and supply increases. With that thought and how the GE functions, I'd have to say that Rune would not be a very likely method of making much money at all, unless you have a reason to believe that rune-based items would fair any better than mithril do now. The biggest impact this change would have would be on the F2P community and even then, I had my rune platebody years ago on F2P after Dragon Slayer.

[Trey]

Do you have any idea how easy money making would be if rune items require low level?

 

Rune bars aren't so hard to get they are uncommon drops from steel dragons. And if you are at high combat level like me, you wouldn't have a problem beating them.

That makes no sense.

 

The rune market is over saturated, people who are high enough level would be making rune items if it was that profitable, being able to make full rune at a lower level wouldn't increase the demand for rune items.

[Blaze The Movie Fan]

No, it's not the grand exchange price I'm talking about. I'm talking about the rune items you can make. 4800 which is the high alch value of rune daggers is pretty much.

[Reivaxlorp]

By that input I would suggest dropping the High Alch Value of rune items as well as they would be much more common to find and should be worth less because of it. The biggest concern I have with the balance issues I previously stated is the major hit the Mining skill will take. Mining Rune at lvl 85 used to be a legendary achievement in Classic but we've come a long way and I think the Mining Skill needs a step up to balance it.

[muggiwhplar]

They should just do what they did for dungeoneering smithing. Nerf the stats on bronze through rune slightly, introduce new armor up till lvl 90/99 which only offers defensive stats (no att/str boosts). or make rune lvl 90 def but boost its stats

 

Just make the ores hard to get like rune currently is for higher level ones. and make the defense stats for 90 similar to barrows, since barrows is degradable but only lvl 70 def req.

 

as long as it doesn't have prayer/offensive stats, it should keep void, proselyte, and bandos useful

 

wouldn't even necessarily have to introduce ores... just adjust level reqs.

instead of bronze 1 mith 20 addy 30 rune 40,

mith 50 addy 70 rune 90 or something.

[Trey]

By that input I would suggest dropping the High Alch Value of rune items as well as they would be much more common to find and should be worth less because of it. The biggest concern I have with the balance issues I previously stated is the major hit the Mining skill will take. Mining Rune at lvl 85 used to be a legendary achievement in Classic but we've come a long way and I think the Mining Skill needs a step up to balance it.

Mining doesn't need a re-balance. Let it stand as a way for people to make some money. There are plenty of ways for people to get rune bars and ore.

 

Oh and I don't think there is an issue with alching. The prices will only fall far enough for high alchemy to be a little bit profitable.

[Reivaxlorp]

@Trey: But if we make something like Rune Smithing available so low, you would suggest leaving the Mining high for profit? I'm not sure how it would affect the price of rune bars to be honest, I'm no good at calculating economies. It would make the skills go less hand-in-hand though. Don't you think Mining would need something up there that can be comparable to high-level smithing techniques if Rune gets dropped?

[Blaze The Movie Fan]

Wait a minute, those items you mentioned in the first post. Don't those items require a big amount of money and/or completions of quests?

 

I mean it's not like you can just use bars on an anvil and make them and then it's done.

[Reivaxlorp]

Well of course, but gold isn't dependent on my skill level as strictly as my ability to craft rune is. My suggestion wasn't because I yearn to get Rune items, it's because realistically it makes no sense. There is no reason why my Runescape character should, logically speaking, understand the fundamentals of Smithing together a Dragon Plate Body 7 levels before he figures it out for a weaker material. I don't genuinely believe this update should be a major game-changer, i just think it should make more sense.

[Platinum_Myr]

There are a lot of issues involved here. I wouldn't mind seeing the tables rebalanced, but it would mean rebalancing the xp rates as well.

 

However, a good analogy for keeping it the way it is:

 

Knowing how to use something != knowing how to make something.

 

Smithing can be considered a highly specialized skill, where making something is difficult even though using it is much easier relatively.

[Troacctid]

By that input I would suggest dropping the High Alch Value of rune items as well as they would be much more common to find and should be worth less because of it. The biggest concern I have with the balance issues I previously stated is the major hit the Mining skill will take. Mining Rune at lvl 85 used to be a legendary achievement in Classic but we've come a long way and I think the Mining Skill needs a step up to balance it.

Mining doesn't need a re-balance. Let it stand as a way for people to make some money. There are plenty of ways for people to get rune bars and ore.

 

Oh and I don't think there is an issue with alching. The prices will only fall far enough for high alchemy to be a little bit profitable.

Mining totally needs a rebalance, what are you talking about? It's borderline useless.

[Reivaxlorp]

I think I'd agree with Troacctid; Mining really isn't anything 8 general spots to gather materials that are all roughly the same. I'd say fishing has more methods to gather, cooking has more end-results, runecrafting has longer lasting uses. The only skill I can think that is probably as boring to execute as mining is woodcutting and even they have more random events and distractions. Also, I think logs are more profitable. But these are simply my opinions, back to Mining, I'd say it needs a re-balance.

[Deletion]

No, it's not the grand exchange price I'm talking about. I'm talking about the rune items you can make. 4800 which is the high alch value of rune daggers is pretty much.

 

I don't want to discuss what would happen to the price of Rune items if this update took place. But your example of smithing a Rune Dagger from a Rune Bar you got as a drop is, for lack of a better word, silly. Instead of smithing it you could sell the Rune Bar for ~3x the price of the Dagger.

 

To the original post: I'm in two minds about this potential update. It would make smithing more in-line with the level at which you can wield said item, but it would also make smithing saturated at the low-levels and then offer no benefit at all getting above 50. If I was going to make this update, I would potentially add non-tradeable benefits to having high smithing, eg at 99 Smithing you can smith a 'flawless' Rune Plate which could offer added defensive and attack (less hindrance on movement) bonuses or a new ability (depending on the mechanics of the combat update).

[Reivaxlorp]

@Deletion I got the same response from someone on the Runescape Official Forum in which the advancements to higher levels would be met with untradable aspects of smithing, but as amazing as that may be, I think it would drop smithing from being a major trade skill, which it someone maintains to be today.

[Deletion]

Smithing's days of being a major trade skill stopped many many years ago. It's now pretty much completely pointless as the raw materials it requires are much more expensive than the overall products, if anything an update like this would further increase this price difference as the market would be saturated with these products produced by these low-level smithers and the demand for the raw materials would increase.

[Reivaxlorp]

Well my suggestion primarily paves the way for new higher level content, because rune does not fit up there. Although this would undoubtedly kill the profit market that exists from rune today, it could open up many new avenues to gather and earn.

[stonewall337]

Do you have any idea how easy money making would be if rune items require low level?

 

Rune bars aren't so hard to get they are uncommon drops from steel dragons. And if you are at high combat level like me, you wouldn't have a problem beating them.

 

You aren't high combat

 

It wouldn't matter anyway, inflation has far greater causes.

 

It would be de minimis.

[Deletion]

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that smithing needs an overhaul. But I don't think adding additional higher-tiered equipment, using the current smithing system (ore->bar->equipment), is the right way to go about it. This would require a major re-balance of equipment stats (surely if Rune requires 40 smithing then the equipment that is smithed at 99 must have seriously amazing stats hence render current end-game gear useless) but still render smithing, in the long-run, unprofitable (so many people are high-level smithing that there wouldn't be demand for long for these items, and if they were rare it would be on the mining, and not the smithing, end that was profitable).

 

What a smithing rehaul needs to do is give smithing a use, not make it profitable. Also, I don't know where you've been, but Rune smithing hasn't made profit in a long time.

[Reivaxlorp]

Lol I left runescape once before the Grand Exchange and came back for about a single month when dungeoneering was announced xD Yeah I've been gone for quite a while...

[Reivaxlorp]

hbelajghvegvlh.... I just saw the "Runescape Suggestions" forum... Anyone wanna move this? xD

[Lord Paul]

Based on your topic description and OP, I think this topic is better suited for Runescape Suggestions. If you have questions, please pm me. I've also fixed the QFC codes in your main post.

 

 

I agree fully that smithing is in drastic need of an overhaul.. should've happened when they released Artisan's workshop.