Another Nail in the Coffin

[The_Mather1]

In DnDs you need to be a ranger to set a trap, in Dungeoneering you can just enchant a homemade crystal with magical energy and plant it as a landmine or set up a boulder to drop when triggered by a tripwire.

Rangers don't even get a bonus to traps. Basic traps can be constructed for free by any class using a craft check, there are a load of options for magical traps (symbol, rune, contingency, alarm, animated objects, etc). You can pay money for advanced traps by creating them yourself by using the table.

Still, it is limited to that which can be explained through the mechanics, meaning something such as causing the walls to close in on eachother wouldn't be possible.

 

In DnDs you need a certain amount of levels to cast certain spells to do certain things, in Dungeoneering you can even nuke the shit out of a forest with a combination of effort, thinking and understanding on how things interact with different forms of magical energy.

Good.

 

Although different things do react differently to different types of energy, correct but pathfinder is intended to be balanced. It may be fun to hear 'the forest blows up' but the intention is that people find fun in working towards a common goal rather than simply doing elaborate shows of power.

No, that is not balance, it is oversimplification. If you learn through experimenting that filling a crystal with too much energy causes it to violently explode in a shower of energy, then if you can get a hold of a crystal larger than your head and harness enough energy to overload it, then turning a grove into a crater is not imbalanced.

 

In DnDs you've only got certain weapons and armor that can only be used certain ways, in Dungeoneering you can craft armor out of quartz to become Iron Man, create a gun that uses magic to fire rocks or make electrical grenades.

Crystalline armour

Synthesist

Golem Armour

 

Launching Crossbow

Alchemist

Specific items that cost money to create. I created the things mentioned through manipulating minerals in the earth. The armor was created by forming it out of quartz, a simple process since quartz makes up 80% of the Earth's crust. The gun was created by designing a trigger mechanism which I hired a smith to create out of metal I extracted from the ground, then making a small quartz crystal which I imbued with force energy and put in the hammer. The grenades were made by forming crystals of quartz, imbuing them with electrical energy, forming a layer of glass around them and extracting the quartz.

 

 

 

And no, my problem with Pathfinder is actually primarily the fundamentals of magic. You can't control it as a basic energy, you can use it to shoot lightning out of your fingertips, you cant use it to manipulate the earth around you or pump it into a crystal to store it. You are bound to certain spells with a certain number of casts, which is just plain boring.

[Resistance]

Walls closing in = cave in rules

 

That sounds even more oversimplified = big rocks hold more magic seems like a silly idea to me. I don't even know why not letting mid-levels get crystals that blow up forests easily is wrong, somehow.

 

You're not going to get price reductions on your armour since although you can presumably make some crude armour in a few minutes using magic spells it needs refining and carving and such. This is more for balance.

 

The bombs you're on about can be made easily, you just can't make them by imbuing magical power unless you're an alchemist. This is mid-level so you can't just create powerful bombs AND dedicate your life to fighting.

 

 

-

 

I don't want to argue about what is possible in pathfinder, as a general rule everything is possible the only question is when. A lot of the examples that you give from dungeoneering are just ridiculously overpowered things that you don't get until level 20 in pathfinder. You can't say that a system is restrictive because it's intended to be for fairly fun and challenging gameplay rather than hurr durr I'm a god with my crystals of blowing up forests bullshit.

The main benefit of pathfinder is that it means that DM's don't say things like: "a peasant picks your pocket, no save" instead, it goes like this "a peasant attempts to pick your pocket, rolls a 15 and fails and against your perception you notice the peasant" or "all your attacks miss" or "a person stabs you and you die, no chance to dodge/block because I decided" instead it goes "roll perception, success you notice somebody attack you. Surprise round and the to hit (18) beats your AC meaning you take 2d6 damage (6) and it is now your turn in combat" - the dungeoneering ones aren't fun, yet they happen all the time.

[The_Mather1]

Natural 20 to gather the quartz, natural 20 to overload it with geomancy, which I already had lvl 21 (mid-high level) in. Also had I gotten any lower than a natural 20, I would have been blown to pieces, but because of it, the bomb only destroyed my armor and left me near death while the others were saved because I told them to hit the ground and took the brunt of the blast for them. The trees, enemies and everything else in the area were turned to ash and it lit up the forest with a blinding, brown light.

[Resistance]

Basically your arguments are:

 

I can be more powerful in dungeoneering therefore it is better. I can't use magic to blow up forests and make armour from sand whilst still being a powerful brawler therefore pathfinder is rubbish.

 

Let's not add this game to the long list of failed dungeoneering games and just continue as single-DM pathfinder rather than flitting between dungeoneering/freeform and pathfinder.

[Earth]

I have to entirely agree with Nef here. I really just prefered Dungeoneering because it was bloody simpler and didn't try to make my head implode from confusion at times.

[Retech]

Perhaps it's more of a question of playstyles. Dungeoneering, there's always a greater range of abilities. On the one hand, you can be much stronger than your level suggests with one roll and fail the simplest things on the next. And that sort of thing doesn't really need a driving plot, because the rolls do drive the game in a sense. Pathfinder is much more suited to a moving plot because you know what your abilities are and how you can progress on that plot.

 

Both are fun, but it is nice to play a game of Pathfinder once in a while instead of succumbing to the natural chaos of the tavern and playing Dungeoneering.

[Alg]

Both are fun, but it is nice to play a game of Pathfinder once in a while instead of succumbing to the natural chaos of the tavern and playing Dungeoneering.

Which is something in favor of single-GM. We spent more time politicking and/or arguing about rules than we did playing the game.

[Resistance]

I am going to run the session tonight, mainly because of the arguments above and long-term rotating GM's have already led to multiple arguments which, if they continue, are probably going to be the death of the game.

This also gives a lot more freedom to do things that would never get done because of rotating GM's

 

Leadership allowed as before, no cohorts.

 

 

 

 

Most of my time is spent looking through character sheets, so here are some mini-character sheets. No rush to fill them in for this session, but next session would be helpful.

 

Just copy down skills that you have put ranks in, there should be more than enough space.

Base attack is base DC for spellcasters (10+Relevent ability score) and then spell level and any enhancements will be added afterwards. Otherwise, it's just the amount of damage you do with your main weapon, something like 1d8+2.

Retech was concerned with this because the DC's can change for spells and occasionally with weapons. Just tell me if there's anything different with the spell and I will adjust, also tell me if you're using a different weapon.

 

A charter for a stronghold as large as the one planned will not be given away so easily. they are usually given after bribing an official or if they are simply an extension of the kingdom. Alternatively, you can be given the charter as a reward for doing a task for one of the nobles.

There are also other factions which you will need to deal with, they will need to be paid off in the same ways as I described above.

[Resistance]

/join #regents

 

irc.tip.it

[Resistance]

Quick session summary:

1. Wander around city
   
2. Enter a weaponsmith, he has lost his rare battleaxe (12k gp)
   
3. Look for clues, nothing.
   
4. See two dwarves following an elf.
   
5. Dwarves run into alleyway.
   
6. Fight dwarf wizard + dwarf rogue
   
7. Archi shouts for police.
   
8. Dwarf rogue killed.
   
9. Dwarf Wizard injured.
   
10. Police turn up, arrest everybody.
    
11. Dwarf wizard arrested as well, taken away separately from the party.
    
12. Dwarf wizard dies in guards arms, the guard teleports away.
    
13. Rest of party taken away in wagon (except Seren and Jen)
    
14. Seren admits that she's a vigilante and is then arrested.
    
15. Everybody breaks out of prison.
    
16. Epic fight scene.
    
17. Wizard teleports Kaede into drain.
    
18. Jen scrys wizard, everyone teleports in and knocks him unconcious
    
19. Mather puts him on his shoulder, everybody runs away.
    
20. Jen flys off.
    
21. Archi walks out of the city gates, he completely ignores my poorly adjusted archers who's arrows just fall off of him due to DR.
    
22. Kaede walks off in disguise.
    
23. Wizard becomes conscious and curses Mather with blindness.
    
24. Mather removes the balls, tongue and fingers of the wizard.
    

Everyone got a load of XP and items, I will write them up tomorrow.

[The_Mather1]

Perhaps it's time to pool our loot and see what wondrous items we can afford to make?

I've still got the expensive painting if we can manage to sell that.

 

So if we can get a list of yesterday's loot and everyone can post what they have, we can work out the total value and see what we can afford to make or upgrade. With upgrade I mean such as sell Kaede's Belt of Giant Strength and pool that money together with some from the loot to make her a better version.

[Resistance]

4 x mwk longsword (315 gp each)

800 gp

8 * potion of cure moderate wounds (300 gp each)

2 x mwk studded leather (175 gp each)

Ring of aquatic transformation (gain aquatic subtype; gain a swim speed of 50ft and a land speed of 5ft; gain two claw attacks 1d4+STR mod)

Short-wave police communicator (1800 gp base; may sell for more/less)

Dwarven Wizard's hat (5000 gp; delving enchantment; constant light)

6,000 GP misc salvage

 

XP: 12800

 

Tome of Battle seems balanced enough, although there will need to be a few modifications to some of the manoeuvre mechanics as they are widely accepted to be overpowered. This is mainly a problem with the duskblade though, the crusader should be fine. I will confirm by tomorrow.

 

Would everybody copy down your character sheets onto the easy-read format.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Jm0eZGn.png

http://i.imgur.com/vZdGzPf.png

 

(If somebody see's Archi before I do, please link him to these)

[The_Mather1]

That's not really gonna work for me seeing as my character works by buffing herself.

 

Just use open the file I've linked to those countless times in Excel. It does work, it just takes about 10-15 minutes because of the filesize.

[Alg]

Just use open the file I've linked to those countless times in Excel. It does work, it just takes about 10-15 minutes because of the filesize.

I gave up on it after half an hour.

[Resistance]

That's not really gonna work for me seeing as my character works by buffing herself.

 

The excel thing isn't going to work, it's a problem enough already to keep track of so many character sheets on my fairly small screen but having a massive excel document in which most of the information is on separate pages which each take about 10 seconds to load up fully and lags if you want to move down.

Pretty much all classes buff themselves, just fill out the sheet and I can adjust during the game quickly and efficiently. Last time my initiative trackers crashed mid-combat which resulted in an annoying delay.

 

 

Also, could you put the modifier next to the ability score in parenthesis like 17 (+3)

[Resistance]

Instead of forcing you to make it in a silly format can everybody just remake it in a text-only format:

 

http://forum.tip.it/topic/316599-rotating-gm-pathfinder/page__st__60#entry5351212

 

So that I can CTRL+F it and so that I can put a list of character sheets on the OP. This is because looking through different character sheet formats. Also, can there be a clear statement of wealth alongside all items.

[The_Mather1]

You don't understand why I use YAPCG, do you? I'm not using it just because it's easier, I'm using it because it's the only way I'm able to keep track of a character.

[Resistance]

Make two character sheets, one for running and another for keeping track.

 

I need to both check and keep track of character sheets during the session.

[Alg]

 

Kaede

Changeling Magus (Bladebound/Kensai) 7

 

Hit Points

HP 41

Current HP

 

 

Strength

12 (+1)

Dexterity

18 (+4)

Constitution

10 (+0)

Intelligence

20 (+5)

Wisdom

10 (+0)

Charisma

12 (+1)

 

Initiative +9 = 4 [Dex] + 5 [int]

 

 

Action Points (Lifetime) 11

 

 

Skills

Bluff +8 = CHA 1+7+0

Diplomacy +11 = CHA 1+7+3

K (Arcana)† +25 = INT 5+7+3+10

K (Dungeoneering)† +9 = INT 5+1+3

K (Engineering)† +6 = INT 5+1+0

K (Geography)† +6 = INT 5+1+0

K (History)† +6 = INT 5+1+0

K (Local)† +6 = INT 5+1+0

K (Nobility)† +6 = INT 5+1+0

K (Planes)† +9 = INT 5+1+3

Perception +7 = WIS 0+7+0

Sense Motive +7 = WIS 0+7+0

Spellcraft† +15 = INT 5+7+3

* Armor Check Penalty 0

† Trained Only

 

 

Equipment

23500 starting

 

Weapon

Black Blade Aldori Dueling Sword (1d8 + 6, 19-20/x2) [Enhancement 2, hulking 1, specialization 2, str 1]

 

Worn

Belt on Incredible Dexterity 2 (4000)

Traveler's Outfit 2 (4001)

Ring of Protection 1 (2000)

Headband of Vast Intelligence 2 (4000)

Bracers of Armor 1 (1000)

Cloak of Resistance 1 (1000)

 

Belt pouch (1) contains:

Traveling Spellbook (10)

 

Backpack (2) contains:

2 oz. Ink (16)

Inkpen (1 sp)

5969 G (1500 to Jen, aqua ring as collateral)

8 s

 

 

 

AC [24] = 10 + 2 [+2 clothing] +4 [Dex] + 1 [Natural Armor] + 4 [Canny Defense] + 1 [Dodge feat] + 1 [Ring of Protection] + 1 [bracers of Armor]

28 with shield spell

 

Touch AC [19] Flat-Footed [17]

 

Spell Resistance 13

 

Base Attack Bonus +5

Basic Melee Attack +5 [11 with dueling sword]

Basic Ranged Attack +9

 

Fortitude Save +6 = 5 [base] +0 [Con] +1 [Cloak of Resistance]

Reflex Save +7 = 2 [base] +4 [Dex] +1 [Cloak of Resistance]

Will Save +6 = 5 [base] +0 [Wis] +1 [Cloak of Resistance]

 

CMB +5 = 5 [bAB] +0 [str] +0

CMD +19 = 5 [bAB] +0 [str] +4 [Dex] +0 + 10

 

 

Feats

Dodge

Weapon Finesse

Weapon Specialization

Mother's Gift: Uncanny Resistance [spell Resistance: 6 + character Level]

 

Traits

Extremely Fashionable

Theoretical Magician

 

 

Arcana:

Black Blade

Pool Strike

 

 

Light Load: 38lbs.

Medium Load: 76lbs.

Heavy Load: 115lbs.

Lift Over Head: 115lbs.

Lift Off Ground: 230lbs.

Push or Drag: 575lbs.

 

 

Languages

Common

Aklo

Elven

Draconic

Giant

Some cat symbols

 

 

 

Magus Spells Per Day

Level 0 4 + 2 [int]

Level 1 3 + 2 [int]

Level 2 2 + 1 [int]

Level 3 0 + 1 [int]

 

Spells known:

 

All cantrips

 

 

1 (5)

Burning Hands

Magic Missile

Shield

Shocking Grasp

Grease

 

2 (6)

Blood Transcription

Glitterdust

Frigid Touch

Bull's Strength

Invisibility

Blur

 

 

3 (2)

Haste

Vampiric Touch

 

 

Special Abilities

Changeling:

Natural Armor

Claws

Darkvision 60ft

Hulking Changeling

 

 

Restless Expel-ee [+10 Knowledge (Arcana), -7 skill points overall]

 

Magus

Canny Defense

Diminished Spellcasting

Weapon Focus/Proficiency

Fighter Training

Iaijutsu

Perfect Strike

Spellstrike

Arcane Pool (8.5 points per day) 6

Cantrips

Spell Combat

 

Bonus feats:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dueling Sword)

Weapon Focus (Dueling Sword)

 

[Retech]

The belt/headband should be 4000 gp and the ring of protection should be 2000 gp, so you get an extra 7000 gp to spend. Since we already start, might as well use that with the downtime to craft something nice for you instead of making it.

[Alg]

And now I can see that I've made more mistakes with the inventory than just those, meaning I have 8,000 GP to spend (The ring actually is 1,000). It's a shame we got chased out of the city, could have stopped by the magic shop :razz:

[Retech]

If you're buying with WBL then you'd look at the price, not the cost.

[Alg]

Then it's 7,000.

 

That's what I get for switching my character concept at the last minute without double checking everything :razz:

[Resistance]

Loot:

 

Bone Full-Plate x2

Bone Buckler x2

Dagger (p) Blue Whinnis x2

Robe

Scroll of Dimension Door

Scroll of Summon Monster IV

Broken Rod of Ray of Enfeeblement (12 charges)

Bag of holding +1

Four flawed rubies (250 gp each)

 

Retech:

Ring of Maniacal Devices

Inane Brass Necklace

Ring of Hairline Fractures 3/day

Necklace of Fireballs I

Amulet of proof against detection and location

 

 

XP: 3335

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dungeon is not as linear as it looks, there are unpictured features. I'm not railroading :P

[Resistance]

Session at 8:00 PM

 

As with Archi, ring me if I'm not there by 7:45 since I may oversleep.