Jagex gets rich from MACROERS?

[dwarfie76]

Well, those of us with an IQ over 25 can actually read a page of text in relatively short order.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post. And while I don't agree that Jagex would ever seek to encourage autoers, there is definately an element of balance that they need to achieve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you point out, Jagex's priority is their bottom line. The only moral responsiblity that any corporation has is to return the maximum profit to it's shareholders. If hunting down and banning every last macroer was going to cost more than the number of people leaving the game because of the autoers then they would be doing a disservice to their shareholders. And I mean really, who would actually consider leaving the game because of the autoers? Autoers only affect you if you view the point of the game as an exercise in raising pixel-cash. If you play the game just to cut yew logs and sell them then autoers ruin your fun by lowering the price. But, IMHO, playing the game just to increase your runescape bank balance doesn't strike me as a great deal of fun anyway. If, on the other hand, your aim in the game is to raise your skills, beat the quests etc then autoers are simply not something that will affect you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turnips

[E_K]

well since the average auto'r has multiple members characters to make money even faster i wouldnt be suprised if they only banned the "extreme" auto'rs that ran like 10+ accounts at once and didnt ban the smaller ones with like 3 or less accounts on at once

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

obviously the smaller of these groups would be the extreme auto'rs which could explain why there are still so many auto'rs around

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nobody except jagex really knows what is going on and i doubt that they would ever tell any of us the whole truth so all we can do is watch and hope

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i personally think that they have lists made for certain levels of affenders (low, moderate, high, extreme) and once an account gets to a certain point they get banned but that is based on nothing at all! so dont believe me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-corn-

[Myweponsg00d]

Wow...longest post I have ever read, and I dont really know anything more than I started with. Yeah...macro'ers pay for the game, too. Definitely a significant part of the 610k subscribers.

[Guest timthebrave]

EDIT

[silver24-7]

I would like to leave you with the darkest thought that I have had since I have been writing this... If macroers have such an enormous potential for making them cash, who is to say that they did not or DO not create or assist in the creation OF those bots? Starting from Jagex's side of the house it would be relatively easy to make a reliable bot and get it in general circulation. I would bet $100 US that this is probably too dark but I would not be totally shocked if I found myself $100 poorer

 

 

 

Let me start off with that one ^^ Thats definetly too dark k ? If jagex would enjoy those bots why make so many randoms ? to make us think theyre taking action ? nah dont think so....

 

 

 

Anyways about ur idea in general yes i have thought the same thing many times, but since I cannot look into it any further way then u did and u still have no evidence then what are we ever supposed to find out ?

 

 

 

And btw i like all veggies ;)

[Veryhyper]

I cant believe you took the time to write all of that and expect us to read it...

 

 

 

^I have a feeling you have never read a book that wasn't a picture book in your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very thoughtful thread, I feel that this is a very possible situation. Though I'm not sure if the JaGex is unmoral enough to do this. Do they seem that money hungry? As for the JaGex being in cohutes with cheaters, don't you think that the cheaters might tell the legit community that this is happening? After cheaters hate JaGex for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kah Bah Gee! well... string beans are better.

[Jimmy_Kak]

very long and hard to read whilst trying not to get logged out of rune while string bows on my quest for 99 fletching...uhh..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you put some good arguments foward i guess, though the whole idea of jagex actually doing some of these things its kinda like speculating on the moon landing. You say that jagex could have lied about the number banned, but i have noticed a definite decline in the number of autoers. you say its about 8% of the total players that can play at once, though i have noticed a 80 - 90% decrease in autoers that i see, so to me i think that jagex are actually doing maybe not their best, but at least a valient effort in trying to deminish the amount of autoers. Although this could just be me hopeing that they are... who is to know anyway, all i know is my favourite veggie is a capsicum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol im guessing ur runecraft level is less than 30, or ur sig thing isnt linked properly to the jagex highscores

[Naive]

wow, i never thought of it that way, but it does make sense, i mean, what company doesn't want money? :lol: and it's all legal st00f as well. it's a conspiracy for money!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love potatoes! especially baked and mashed! and Bush is a cyborg that malfunctioned and thinks wmd's are in iraq... :twisted:

[retread]

The people who work for Jagex are a bunch of geeky computer game freaks. They probably hired an accountant too. Everybody there loves stats and they probably know pretty accurately how much they make from cheaters and they factor it into the profit margin. Such is capitalism.

[Zerocool11]

I see your point and can follow the logic of your argument, but I still have a hard time believing that this is some big JAGeX conspiracy to make money. At best, I think it is a nice side effect from macroers that JAGeX did not forsee and since it is beneficial, have done little to stop it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, the macroers, especially the old school ones, caused JAGeX a lot of problems because they discovered and then exploited bugs. Remember the party hat dupe? That was because of the macroers messing around with [ForbiddenSite] and discovering how to create items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also agree that JAGeX had done very little to stop macroers and have backed out of the RuneScape community and have become more of a company rather than a community leader of sorts. However, this is just the natural evolution of a company. As its game becomes more popular and bigger, the nature of the company changes. Get used to it, it's only going to get worse. :wink:

[oddfaery2]

 

I cant believe you took the time to write all of that and expect us to read it...

 

 

 

^I have a feeling you have never read a book that wasn't a picture book in your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very thoughtful thread, I feel that this is a very possible situation. Though I'm not sure if the JaGex is unmoral enough to do this. Do they seem that money hungry? As for the JaGex being in cohutes with cheaters, don't you think that the cheaters might tell the legit community that this is happening? After cheaters hate JaGex for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kah Bah Gee! well... string beans are better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's wrong with people who don't read books? I haven't read a book that wasn't for class in 10 years, and rarely read books that are assigned (skim through them at most, usually).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted he shouldn't have flamed... but some of us don't care much for reading ;)

[joris_n]

That was a very long post, nice thougt there.

 

 

 

I do think is the can detect macroers so EASY they whould have get rid of them already, yet if you go to free worlds varrock rune shop what do you see?

 

 

 

5-10 bald guys auto mining ess. (Btw try to close the door they dont know what to do :P )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And for your little fun my favorite vegetable is: potatoe

[Evrae]

 

 

 

What's wrong with people who don't read books? I haven't read a book that wasn't for class in 10 years, and rarely read books that are assigned (skim through them at most, usually).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted he shouldn't have flamed... but some of us don't care much for reading ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm resisting the urge to flame here. OK, some people don't like reading, but saaying there's nothing wrong with people who don't read books? I'm at a loss for words. Reading is incredibly important. Books make you think, give you knowledge, and give us the ability to reason and argue sensibly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, back on topic. The original post was a very interesting read. Its points were made logically, and tie in with what i believe we must always remember - Jagex is a company. Companies only do things to make a profit. They might say they care for their customers, or the environment, but really thats just to give us, the consumers, a good impression of them.

 

 

 

However, i prefer the idea one poster came up with (sorry, cant remember who!) that Jagex doesn't completely sort out the macroers because it would cost too much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RAHK's thoughts are all logical, and cant really be faulted on the whole, but i think that the laziness idea is more likely. After all, Jagex as a whole is a company, but a company is made up of people. And unless all the staff are completely immoral, someone would have spilt the beans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of which, raw carrots

[RAHK]

WARNING!!! To those of you who despise reading this reply is VERY long. Do not cause yourself undue stress!!! Simply scroll down to where I quoted you and read that reply!!! I hope you catch my sarcasm!!!! It is very obvious!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am going to reply to as many people as I can before I nod off. Here goes nothing:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Jagex can't just ban all the autoers no matter how good system they have, only way was if they stood behind the suspected autoer IRL since EVERYTHING a real player in runescape does CAN be simulated by programs, EVERYTHING.

 

 

 

2. Not every low level person not talking to YOU is an autoer.

 

 

 

3. Autoers cost them money, autoers usually play more than the average user so they use more bandwidth than usual, jagex does NOT get free bandwidth + as said before, autoers don't even click on ads :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Thank you for numbering because it makes replies easier on me and the reader.) :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. When it comes to computers there is NOTHING that will ALWAYS be impossible. Given enough time and resources all forms of anti-cheat technology can eventually be thwarted. On this point I agree. I think that the main point of the way that I would go about banning is this: the goal is to make it "cost" them as much time and resources possible. If you ban the trash account you make them "pay" a small amount of time and resources. If you catch the main (in the manner that I have previously described) then they must "pay" a LOT more to continue their cheating ways.

 

 

 

Also I seriously doubt that any of the widely used bot programs could outwit an actual human being. All they have to do is not respond to an unblockable Mod pm and their goose is cooked (see above).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. I said absolutely NOTHING in reference to low lvls not talking to ME... I suggest that you re-read the posts until you actually understand...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Not only did I mention that autoers do NOT click ads I have already addressed the fact that their bandwidth usage is hardly more than they pay for. If Jagex were ACTUALLY losing money from macroing scum they would be OBLIGATED to crush them. Yes, they use more bandwidth a month than the honest player but I HIGHLY doubt that outweighs the profit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I took out my quote to save space. =]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The messaging thing would not work because some programs even have an autotalking thing with it, and telling them exactly what to type would be pretty unfeasable (wouldn't want somebody banned for a typo or something stupid eh?).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for manual searches, they've been doing that in common places like the mining and fishing guilds, which we've already seen big results from.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In response to the first paragraph I would like to make a screeny of the ROUGH idea (the stars are just so those of us who AFK and cruise forums while watching only a third of the screen would get some form of warning and wouldn't get a nasty surprise):

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basically a Mod hops in to a well-known macroer spot, sees "me" macroing, sends me something along the lines of "talk to me or die!", this message would be sent in some really random way (different fonts, sizes, colors, areas of the screen, etc.) either determined by the Mod or in some other fashion, the message would count down if the person does not give "semi-intelligent" answers (basically asks a question or two that a 4 y/o could answer such as: what color are my boots? or what do you use to dig?), and if they did not reply in a satisfactory manner they would either be banned outright or "tagged" so that they could eventually track down the main. I hope that run-on sentence cleared that up. :?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I personally haven't noticed any difference but I HIGHLY doubt that you are lying/exaggerating. I think that the hands-on approach as opposed to the automated one would work much better (as you say that it has). I do think that a random that requires the smallest amount of intelligence would also help to a lesser degree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS- I am getting very sleepy so I am not quite sure that I am making sense. :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I cant believe you took the time to write all of that and expect us to read it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly I can't think of a reply that would not go over your head... How about this: believe it and I only expect those who can count above 10 to read it so don't worry your little head. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a perfect example of how to make yourself appear to be what you loathe... :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, those of us with an IQ over 25 can actually read a page of text in relatively short order.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post. And while I don't agree that Jagex would ever seek to encourage autoers, there is definately an element of balance that they need to achieve.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you point out, Jagex's priority is their bottom line. The only moral responsiblity that any corporation has is to return the maximum profit to it's shareholders. If hunting down and banning every last macroer was going to cost more than the number of people leaving the game because of the autoers then they would be doing a disservice to their shareholders. And I mean really, who would actually consider leaving the game because of the autoers? Autoers only affect you if you view the point of the game as an exercise in raising pixel-cash. If you play the game just to cut yew logs and sell them then autoers ruin your fun by lowering the price. But, IMHO, playing the game just to increase your runescape bank balance doesn't strike me as a great deal of fun anyway. If, on the other hand, your aim in the game is to raise your skills, beat the quests etc then autoers are simply not something that will affect you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turnips

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good reply :) but I would rather eat bellybutton lint than turnips.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anywho, I think that when it comes to issues of morality you are either "part of the solution, or part of the problem". I doubt that Jagex honestly gives a hoot about macroers after they do the math that you referred to above and come out on top therefore their lackadaisical stance on macroers does more harm than "neutrality".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I only disagree in a small way in regards to macroers effect on the honest gamers' gaming: it is frustrating when you think about all of the work that you put in to buy yourself that long-needed whip and you see a lvl 15 flax-picking-bot pulling in more in two weeks than you have in the last year. I also think that a large portion of players play the game SOLELY for the gp because they find merchanting and the like fun. If they put a lot of work in to buy a phat and see a lvl 15 selling 600k flax at 85 each they also might feel a little "twinge" in the back of their neck. Eh, to each their own so long as it is legal. :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well since the average auto'r has multiple members characters to make money even faster i wouldnt be suprised if they only banned the "extreme" auto'rs that ran like 10+ accounts at once and didnt ban the smaller ones with like 3 or less accounts on at once

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

obviously the smaller of these groups would be the extreme auto'rs which could explain why there are still so many auto'rs around

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nobody except jagex really knows what is going on and i doubt that they would ever tell any of us the whole truth so all we can do is watch and hope

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i personally think that they have lists made for certain levels of affenders (low, moderate, high, extreme) and once an account gets to a certain point they get banned but that is based on nothing at all! so dont believe me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-corn-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mmmm... corn on the cob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would just like to say that I also have no technical "proof" so your suppositions are just as technically valid as mine. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would think that they would go the opposite way though when it comes to accounts/person ratio. If they know that player Y has 17 member accounts of which at least 6 are active at all times and player P has 2 accounts and only macros on one I think that they would rather keep the big-spender around so that they can make more cash off of him AND so that (if they are forced by the RS2 community to take severe action against macroers) they can say that they banned 17 accounts (and not mention how many owners were involved). One player Y ban (17 characters banned total) would look a lot better to the honest gamer than 5 player P bans (5 REAL people banned but only the mention of 10 characters banned)... but, as I initially said, there is no proof so either of us could be right/wrong/confused.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow...longest post I have ever read, and I dont really know anything more than I started with. Yeah...macro'ers pay for the game, too. Definitely a significant part of the 610k subscribers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You should really read some blogs or ANYTHING from Leesters because they are well worth the time involved (90% of them anyway).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't really attempting to "teach" you anything. This is simply a topic made for the sake of discussion. Most everything that I typed COULD easily be true but I doubt the majority of people have actually taken the time to think it through (you are obviously in the minority as am I).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well since the type 2 autoers are making real life cash and benfiting Jagex I dont know why a company looking for cash would turn them away. I just dont want to believe that Jagex has some evil Conspiracy like how you stated. I Heard that Jagex sued kanietics (however you spell it) but maybe they partnered with the Scripters and made the rumour to make people believe Jagex is Against them. Who woulda thunk Jagex is so evil :? :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

O yea I like Corn :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just reiterating what I said before: this isn't what I consider the truth. It is what I consider a POSSIBLE truth. I would honestly be pretty dissapointed to the point of quitting RS2 forever if Jagex actually did the "dark" and "evil" things that I/we mentioned. i just couldn't give my money to a company that is so intentionally and unnecessarily evil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to leave you with the darkest thought that I have had since I have been writing this... If macroers have such an enormous potential for making them cash, who is to say that they did not or DO not create or assist in the creation OF those bots? Starting from Jagex's side of the house it would be relatively easy to make a reliable bot and get it in general circulation. I would bet $100 US that this is probably too dark but I would not be totally shocked if I found myself $100 poorer

 

 

 

Let me start off with that one ^^ Thats definetly too dark k ? If jagex would enjoy those bots why make so many randoms ? to make us think theyre taking action ? nah dont think so....

 

 

 

Anyways about ur idea in general yes i have thought the same thing many times, but since I cannot look into it any further way then u did and u still have no evidence then what are we ever supposed to find out ?

 

 

 

And btw i like all veggies ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mentioned above somewhere that "dark" idea was mostly for comic relief. While technically it is POSSIBLE I don't think that it is that likely. I personally believe, though, that the MAIN goal of the continuous flow of Randoms is to remind the honest gamer that they are "trying". If what they claim is true ("EASILY detect" cheaters and their mains) then they have the power but do not use it. If they are lying it is just more "propaganda" to slake our thirst for macroers' blood. :twisted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I prefer to think that the smallest effort or voice can eventually bring about the largest of changes. I would much rather voice my opinion on the miniscule chance that it eventually leads somewhere than to hold with a defeatist's attitude... but you are probably right lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I cant believe you took the time to write all of that and expect us to read it...

 

 

 

^I have a feeling you have never read a book that wasn't a picture book in your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very thoughtful thread, I feel that this is a very possible situation. Though I'm not sure if the JaGex is unmoral enough to do this. Do they seem that money hungry? As for the JaGex being in cohutes with cheaters, don't you think that the cheaters might tell the legit community that this is happening? After cheaters hate JaGex for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kah Bah Gee! well... string beans are better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Snow peas > string beans in my opinion. :mrgreen: and lol at "picture book".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was implying that the creators of the bots were actually Jagex staff in disguise as opposed to being in "cahoots" with each other lol. That way they could put out the programs but still remain fairly anonymous. (Remember the "dark" part was me making fun of myself and my "theories".)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for a good reply but I could not think of a good way to return the favor without simply inserting my responses as they came up. All things in bold are MY words not Jimmy_Kak's.

 

 

 

very long and hard to read whilst trying not to get logged out of rune while string bows on my quest for 99 fletching...uhh..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you put some good arguments foward i guess, though the whole idea of jagex actually doing some of these things its kinda like speculating on the moon landing. Read one of my previous replies to see what I said about the moon. You say that jagex could have lied about the number banned, but i have noticed a definite decline in the number of autoers. Personally, I haven't but a lot of others have. I did notice a temporary reprieve but they look like they are back in the swing of things. you say its about 8% of the total players that can play at once, 8% was my guess of what 15k was compared to the whole community not the percentage of cheaters that I thought were banned. though i have noticed a 80 - 90% decrease in autoers that i see, so to me i think that jagex are actually doing maybe not their best, but at least a valient effort in trying to deminish the amount of autoers. Maybe it IS an honest effort to wipe them out (my hope) or maybe it is an honest effort to make us feel better or possibly just a way to do a little of both because the macroing was getting out of hand? As you say "who knows?"--> Although this could just be me hopeing that they are... who is to know anyway, all i know is my favourite veggie is a capsicum. ... is that some kind of a pepper or caper or something? :oops:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol im guessing ur runecraft level is less than 30, or ur sig thing isnt linked properly to the jagex highscores I noticed that a couple others with sigs from the same site are missing their runecrafting levels as well (my RC level is 60 so it should show up =\

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wow, i never thought of it that way, but it does make sense, i mean, what company doesn't want money? :lol: and it's all legal st00f as well. it's a conspiracy for money!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love potatoes! especially baked and mashed! and Bush is a cyborg that malfunctioned and thinks wmd's are in iraq... :twisted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The part in red is EXACTLY the whole point of this... no more, no less. Thank you for understanding. I am just trying to get people to think on this not believe in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't like baked potatoes but I love mashed (yes I understand they are IDENTICAL in almost every way lol) and long live the bush-is-a-robot-insanity! :idea:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The people who work for Jagex are a bunch of geeky computer game freaks. They probably hired an accountant too. Everybody there loves stats and they probably know pretty accurately how much they make from cheaters and they factor it into the profit margin. Such is capitalism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The first two sentences seem rather odd but I agree with the last two Mr. Carnivore :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see your point and can follow the logic of your argument, but I still have a hard time believing that this is some big JAGeX conspiracy to make money. At best, I think it is a nice side effect from macroers that JAGeX did not forsee and since it is beneficial, have done little to stop it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, the macroers, especially the old school ones, caused JAGeX a lot of problems because they discovered and then exploited bugs. Remember the party hat dupe? That was because of the macroers messing around with [ForbiddenSite] and discovering how to create items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also agree that JAGeX had done very little to stop macroers and have backed out of the RuneScape community and have become more of a company rather than a community leader of sorts. However, this is just the natural evolution of a company. As its game becomes more popular and bigger, the nature of the company changes. Get used to it, it's only going to get worse. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Paragraph 1 and 3 - I agree. I was playing the Devil's Advocate and stating the most malicious versions that could be deemed semi-plausible. I like the way that you put it, "a nice side effect". It seems to make the most sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Paragraph 2 - I honestly don't remember because I wasn't around. My understanding was that somebody messed up a trade in the party hall and accidently discovered duping. Apparently I am way, way off lol. :oops:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I cant believe you took the time to write all of that and expect us to read it...

 

 

 

^I have a feeling you have never read a book that wasn't a picture book in your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very thoughtful thread, I feel that this is a very possible situation. Though I'm not sure if the JaGex is unmoral enough to do this. Do they seem that money hungry? As for the JaGex being in cohutes with cheaters, don't you think that the cheaters might tell the legit community that this is happening? After cheaters hate JaGex for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kah Bah Gee! well... string beans are better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's wrong with people who don't read books? I haven't read a book that wasn't for class in 10 years, and rarely read books that are assigned (skim through them at most, usually).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted he shouldn't have flamed... but some of us don't care much for reading ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have to say that hanging out in Forums of any type would imply that a lot of reading would be done. Reading people's thoughts and ideas just might be more palitable than say Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World" (one of my personal favorites) to you and him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was a very long post, nice thougt there.

 

 

 

I do think is the can detect macroers so EASY they whould have get rid of them already, yet if you go to free worlds varrock rune shop what do you see?

 

 

 

5-10 bald guys auto mining ess. (Btw try to close the door they dont know what to do :P )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And for your little fun my favorite vegetable is: potatoe

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I make it a point to stay away from macroers whenever convenient because they irritate me... but you say I can mess with them by closing doors? Sounds like fun to me :twisted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's wrong with people who don't read books? I haven't read a book that wasn't for class in 10 years, and rarely read books that are assigned (skim through them at most, usually).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted he shouldn't have flamed... but some of us don't care much for reading ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm resisting the urge to flame here. OK, some people don't like reading, but saaying there's nothing wrong with people who don't read books? I'm at a loss for words. Reading is incredibly important. Books make you think, give you knowledge, and give us the ability to reason and argue sensibly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, back on topic. The original post was a very interesting read. Its points were made logically, and tie in with what i believe we must always remember - Jagex is a company. Companies only do things to make a profit. They might say they care for their customers, or the environment, but really thats just to give us, the consumers, a good impression of them.

 

 

 

However, i prefer the idea one poster came up with (sorry, cant remember who!) that Jagex doesn't completely sort out the macroers because it would cost too much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RAHK's thoughts are all logical, and cant really be faulted on the whole, but i think that the laziness idea is more likely. After all, Jagex as a whole is a company, but a company is made up of people. And unless all the staff are completely immoral, someone would have spilt the beans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Speaking of which, raw carrots

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yay for carrots! My 2 y/o and I eat about a half pound of baby carrots a day when I read to her or listen to music. They are like Nature's candy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am going to have to vote this my favorite post for several reasons:

 

 

 

1. It is well thought-out, precise, and a joy for my "organized" brain to read.

 

 

 

2. It compliments me (I am trying to be honest, who doesn't like that every once in awhile :oops: )

 

 

 

3. It makes me happy that I get to end this huge reply on a high-note. :o

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My fuzzy brain thanks you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok time for bed again. Sorry for the huge reply but I was trying not to have a hundred replies in a row. I am too tired to proof read this so I hope it all makes sense. Good night and I will see if this is here tomorrow. :?:

[gspbeetle]

reading the replies, i can clearly see that many people did not bother to read the whole thing. they just think,"hmmm... support autoers?...duh bad thing!"

 

 

 

it didnt take more than 5 mins to read it anyway...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

basically, marcoers is always a dilemma of jagex, they give $ to jagex but they also depress 'honest' player (like most of the tipiters). to maximise their profit, they want an equilibrium of both marcoers and honest players.

 

 

 

jagex want both money from both sides, that is definitely true, nothing to argue about that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but i quite disaggree that they can "easily detected" autoers. take scar for an example, they do random clicks and just act like a mouse command input. unless jagex install an active x scanner (which did not exist), there is no way to detect it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

most of the time, marcoers are banned as player report them. the last mass bans are due to some 'traitors' in the cheating community. the 'traitors' could be jagex staff, as cheating community always welcome leet programmers, but this is just my guess. however, jagex shows regressive attitude on banning, they wait till the rages of us goes up.

[bedman]

Thanks for the nice read :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mmh, Rice

[Veryhyper]

 

 

I cant believe you took the time to write all of that and expect us to read it...

 

 

 

^I have a feeling you have never read a book that wasn't a picture book in your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very thoughtful thread, I feel that this is a very possible situation. Though I'm not sure if the JaGex is unmoral enough to do this. Do they seem that money hungry? As for the JaGex being in cohutes with cheaters, don't you think that the cheaters might tell the legit community that this is happening? After cheaters hate JaGex for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kah Bah Gee! well... string beans are better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's wrong with people who don't read books? I haven't read a book that wasn't for class in 10 years, and rarely read books that are assigned (skim through them at most, usually).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Granted he shouldn't have flamed... but some of us don't care much for reading ;)

 

 

 

Many of the world's known intellectual leaders, spirtual leaders, and people who are extremely rich usually are vivacious readers. So if you have big goals, pick up a book or two.

 

 

 

But what would would be the point in his post if he just said that he didn't take the time to read it? It sure isn't productive for this disscussion. If he didn't read it at all then he shouldn't post IMO.

[SBD_Izzy]

I cant believe you took the time to write all of that and expect us to read it...

 

 

 

If he didn't read it at all then he shouldn't post IMO.

 

 

 

Good point. But zeke did not say he/she did not ready it.

 

 

 

We all love to flame though, don't we. Me included...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can usualy gauge how passionate someone is on a topic by the legnth of their discussion. When I come across rhetoric that is at the far end of the 'length scale', as compaired to all other discussions on any topics, I am very suspicious of it. It brings out the cynic in me.

 

 

 

I mull it over and first try to figure out if the information is factual. Followed by a check for consistency. Inconsistent statements are a good sign someone is just showing off their ability to use a keyboard if nothing else. Then I target the points which are made to sway opinion. After which, I ponder the relative subject in frame with what is commonly accepted by the mass public, the politics of the subject and politics of even bringing up the subject. Finaly I add all that togather as if it were a formula. Ninety percent of the time I find passionate rhetoric to be worthy of suspicion even at times when I completely agree with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bring up this cynical viewpoint of examination not solely about this thread. But its interesting that a large number of long passionate threads like this one have been populating the tip.it forums since Jagex took strong public action against cheaters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

End post.

[nobody7785]

wow you have a lot of time on your hands. (in other words i didnt read it but still posted in an attempt to raise my post count).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: i guess the mods didnt like my terry shiavo sig :?

[RAHK]

To the people that I don't reply to I would like to say that I think that your posts are simply self-sufficient so they don't really necessitate a reply. Don't take this as any form of slight whatsoever. I only mean that your post states everything that needed to be said about it. :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I cant believe you took the time to write all of that and expect us to read it...

 

 

 

If he didn't read it at all then he shouldn't post IMO.

 

 

 

Good point. But zeke did not say he/she did not ready it.

 

 

 

We all love to flame though, don't we. Me included...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can usualy gauge how passionate someone is on a topic by the legnth of their discussion. When I come across rhetoric that is at the far end of the 'length scale', as compaired to all other discussions on any topics, I am very suspicious of it. It brings out the cynic in me.

 

 

 

I mull it over and first try to figure out if the information is factual. Followed by a check for consistency. Inconsistent statements are a good sign someone is just showing off their ability to use a keyboard if nothing else. Then I target the points which are made to sway opinion. After which, I ponder the relative subject in frame with what is commonly accepted by the mass public, the politics of the subject and politics of even bringing up the subject. Finaly I add all that togather as if it were a formula. Ninety percent of the time I find passionate rhetoric to be worthy of suspicion even at times when I completely agree with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bring up this cynical viewpoint of examination not solely about this thread. But its interesting that a large number of long passionate threads like this one have been populating the tip.it forums since Jagex took strong public action against cheaters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

End post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have to say that this is a well thought out response and I think that this form of "cynicism" should be applied to everything that one encounters. If you take every single thing that you read/see at face value you can look forward to a life of constant disappointment. People lie and twist "facts" to better their own position in life regardless of the consequences, at times. This, of course, does not mean that all things are lies and all people are first decietful and second truthful. It merely means that all information acquired should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was midly concerned that this topic would only recieve replies stating that "big words suck" or "reading is hard" because of the age group that runescape is targetted at. I know of only a few confirmed adults (Leesters and... well he and I are the only ones that I know of :oops: but I would assume that there are others.) that frequent these forums so I am glad to know that there is a larger percentage of higher-thinking individuals (be they adults, students, or children) on Tip.it than on RS2. It warms my heart to read intelligent replies regardless of whether or not they agree or disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, in regards to the nature of your post, I am going to have to say that I disagree. Longer posts would tend to indicate a more thoroughly thought out idea than shorter posts in my opinion. Take, for example, your reply. You did not simply state "I view you post in a cynical light." You backed it up with your thoughts behind that statement. I would have to say, though, that your long"ish" reply is paradoxical in it's claim. You say that the longer the statement the more likely it is misleading by stating so in a long-winded manner. :wink:

 

 

 

I personally think that if it is not worth the poster's time to clearly state what their topic is and their thoughts backing it up, then it is probably not worth my time to read it. Conversely, if the topic requires only a few words (such as "What do you think of the new dragon weapon?") then brevity is always nice. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have to agree with you one another very important aspect. If you read something that exclusively points to the poster's ideas as being the ONLY possible reality without mentioning the possiblity, even in passing, of any other point of view then you can safely say that the author's biased view was well recorded. :wink: I would have to say that I sufficiently played the Devil's Advocate against my own "theory" by stating that I could easily be incorrect and, in fact, truly HOPE that I am. I would like to believe that they are honestly doing everything in their abilities (including propaganda. Because IF they can lie and keep a couple of people from cheating then more power to them) to crush the macroing community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As to the portion of your post that I highlighted in bold I would like to say that previous to this being brought up publically by Jagex there was little interest in the general community in regards to macroers. I can assure you that there were many that believed as I did (and do) that macroers were having a significantly large negative impact on the game. The reason for the flood of topics in relation to the trickle before is this: the community is now "ripe" for picking. People who weren't concerned before are now, thanks to the abundance of macroers they personally see and to Jagex taking a more public stance against them. Those who have always been concerned now have an audience that is more accepting to those ideas. I think that it is hardly "interesting" that the band wagon has shown up and people are hopping on. It is human nature and it is an applicable topic in "today's gaming community". All, excluding the cheaters themselves, are at least SLIGHTLY concerned about this and are voicing their opinions in force.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to thank nobody7785 for providing perfect juxtaposition to your intelligent post with this:

 

 

 

wow you have a lot of time on your hands. (in other words i didnt read it but still posted in an attempt to raise my post count).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: i guess the mods didnt like my terry shiavo sig :?

 

 

 

:roll:

[SBD_Izzy]

I think flames such as the one I wrote are far more enjoyable than the one liners calling people old boot wearing, rusty sword wielding, Experiment look-alike newbies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words.... BUMP... acknowledgment.

[RAHK]

I think flames such as the one I wrote are far more enjoyable than the one liners calling people old boot wearing, rusty sword wielding, Experiment look-alike newbies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words.... BUMP... acknowledgment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol: True. I always enjoy a well thought out ANYTHING (flame or otherwise) as compared to a short insult. While this doesn't change my opinion of the flawed logic used in the original flame I can't argue with the flawless logic of this comment. :D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Sorry for the delay; I have been rather busy lately.)

[Birdboy60]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your arguments make about as much points as saying : No one walked on the Moon, aliens are currently spying on us, and Bush is a robot.

 

 

 

:shock:

 

 

 

I knew it! I knew he was a robot! lol, jk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I can tell you honestly, when I saw the 15k accounts banned, I did NOT smile. I am and always have, and most likely always will be a honest player. But i didn't smile. In fact, I got worried. 2 of my rl friends macro, im not going to name names, and i was afraid they got banned. they didn't, but one got a serious black mark to be reckoned with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, you brought up the scripts themselves. Some people write their own, sell them for RS cash, and use them. But I heard a rumor that Jagex is actually buying some, and then reverse engineering them, figuring out their weaknesses, and exploiting them. Now as for the banning the macroers, this will either make the person a legite player, or the person will start over, and pay for members again. And as for non-mem (F2P) scripters, just having the ads shown gets money for Jagex. Its like on TV. You watch the news or something, they go to commercial, you sit through, and continue watching the program. The company is paid to just show the piece of film, and then thaat company gets new customers sometimes. But macroers aren't really Jagex's "cash crop" so to speak. They make their money off of legite F2P players who get bored and want to step up, showing ads on the site, and who knows what else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that is my opinion.

[RAHK]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your arguments make about as much points as saying : No one walked on the Moon, aliens are currently spying on us, and Bush is a robot.

 

 

 

:shock:

 

 

 

I knew it! I knew he was a robot! lol, jk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, I can tell you honestly, when I saw the 15k accounts banned, I did NOT smile. I am and always have, and most likely always will be a honest player. But i didn't smile. In fact, I got worried. 2 of my rl friends macro, im not going to name names, and i was afraid they got banned. they didn't, but one got a serious black mark to be reckoned with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, you brought up the scripts themselves. Some people write their own, sell them for RS cash, and use them. But I heard a rumor that Jagex is actually buying some, and then reverse engineering them, figuring out their weaknesses, and exploiting them. Now as for the banning the macroers, this will either make the person a legite player, or the person will start over, and pay for members again. And as for non-mem (F2P) scripters, just having the ads shown gets money for Jagex. Its like on TV. You watch the news or something, they go to commercial, you sit through, and continue watching the program. The company is paid to just show the piece of film, and then thaat company gets new customers sometimes. But macroers aren't really Jagex's "cash crop" so to speak. They make their money off of legite F2P players who get bored and want to step up, showing ads on the site, and who knows what else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that is my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My belief is those who do not report cheaters are, in essence, cheating themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other than that my understanding about the ads was that they get paid per click not per hour shown. I honestly do not know how to prove it either way though.

[Dead_Dude4]

My belief is those who do not report cheaters are, in essence, cheating themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other than that my understanding about the ads was that they get paid per click not per hour shown. I honestly do not know how to prove it either way though.

 

 

 

You can never be 100% sure if a player is macroing though... I never bother reporting ppl that "look" suspicious since there could always be a simple reason for not getting a reply from the person (like public chat off).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do agree though... Knowing that someone scams / cheats / macros for a living and not bother reporting those kind of ppl is sort of like you yourself are cheating (since you are helping the cheater get a away).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Guess I'll vote for something as simple as apples (since I wouldn't know the english words for any other vegetables anyways) :D