ETA declares permanent ceasefire

[Hannibal]

After decades of bomb attacks, murders on politicians and other people who prominently opposed a separate Basque state, ETA has officially declared a permanent ceasefire. I personally don't live in Spain, but I'd imagine this is teriffic news for anyone there. :)

 

 

 

For more information, see the BBC News article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4832672.stm

[Necromagus]

Wow, looks like one of the last European violent conflicts has finally ended. Reminds me of the IRA disbanding last year. I can only imagine how good this must be for the local population...

[Phil]

Very interesting news this.

 

 

 

I'm not sure but there will probably be splinter groups off ETA which could be still going. Kind of like the Real IRA. Hopefully this will be the end though.

[apinagez]

Surely great news, first IRA and now ETA have decided to declare casefire.

 

But the idea the Basque State still belongs to Spain and France doesn't seem right, they should of have gotten independence...But I hope now they do get it peacefully, wich would be so much better. However, if the Basque State isn't independent, we never know if they may come back to terrorist actions.

 

Something like it happened in 1998, but one year later ETA returned to their terrorist actions :S

[Invidious]

Permanent Cease-Fire is not as good as it sounds... Believe it or not my country (South Korea) is still technichally at war with North Korea. Every Korean male is required to do a term of military service... I myself was asigned to the DMZ (De-Militarized Zone) for a short term of time. We were all told that we were to shoot to kill if we saw anything suspicious... I was shocked to find out that there have been countless incidents involving numerous casualties on both sides. Of course... Because of diplomatic reasons all these incidents are quickly hushed up.

 

 

 

There have also been several submarine incidents in which the North were reportedly sending spies down into Seoul via sea by submarine. National security is tense...

 

 

 

All of that is nothing when compared to the worst part of still being at war: The American occupation. Because of my lingual skills I was assigned rank as a Foreign Relations Liason. Many of my fellow soldiers hated me for what I was as I had to keep in close contact with the "Yanks" and keep my fellow countrymen from beating on them(Sometimes with force). I was confused at first at their hatred directed towards the USAF. When I finally asked a friend what it was all about he told me about how the "Yanks" are having such a bad influence on Korean culture(If one ventures up to Yongsan one will find countless hostels, hookers and dirty clubs)... He then told me about how many Korean girls/women were raped on a weekly basis. At first I did not believe him, but then I saw one incident with my very own eyes (after my service was over...). I was passing by a street near the East Gate market... There was a crowd near an ally and I watched two USAF soldiers leaving two highschool girls crying. The police were there too but they couldn't do anything(According to the SOFA agreement USAF are not subject to any form of Foreign jurisdiction) but take the drunk soldiers back to base and the girls home...

 

 

 

I dearly hope for the sake of the State of Basque that the war will end descisivley rather than a cease-fire which only pro-long the activity of occupying forces...

 

 

 

Foreign Occupational Forces + Local Alchohal and Women = General Unrest

[Phil]

Invidious: Yeah I know what you are saying however I think a ceasfire is much better than them being active. It means that others can work harder on peace without any fear. Ceasefire does sound better than an active terrorist organisation.

 

 

 

Also in Spain, there was no all out war against ETA and there were no foreign occupying forces. I don't know the details specifically about the Basque region but I think it could probably be compared to Northern Ireland and IRA situation.

 

 

 

I certainly wouldn't compare the spanish problem with that going on in Korea. Two completely different situations.

[____]

I don't know the details specifically about the Basque region but I think it could probably be compared to Northern Ireland and IRA situation.

 

That's how I see it.

 

 

 

But I don't believe in ETA's ceasefire all that much. Guess we'll see what happens.

 

Personally I think it only needs one idiot to piss them off and they'll go back to blowing stuff up :-?

[Barihawk]

Sure, the IRA declared a cease-fire, but that did not stop former dissidents from setting a bomb that blew up in front of a Catholic school. Nor does that bring one of my good friends (who was Protestant) back from the dead. (She was walking a Catholic neighbor's daughter to school).

 

 

 

The violence will still be there, it just won't have political organization.

[indy500fan]

the IRA disbanded? man, i didnt even know that. did it ever make it onto the news? im sad to say i have not heard of the ETA before, but its good that there is at least a ceasefire.

[apinagez]

the IRA disbanded? man, i didnt even know that. did it ever make it onto the news? im sad to say i have not heard of the ETA before, but its good that there is at least a ceasefire.

 

 

 

As far as I know, they haven't disbanded, it was just a permanent cease fire, now they will act like a political party to defend their cause.

[Scruffy5389]

Sure, the IRA declared a cease-fire, but that did not stop former dissidents from setting a bomb that blew up in front of a Catholic school. Nor does that bring one of my good friends (who was Protestant) back from the dead. (She was walking a Catholic neighbor's daughter to school).

 

 

 

The violence will still be there, it just won't have political organization.

 

 

 

At least it's a step in the right direction :wink:

[Invidious]

Two completely different situations.

 

 

 

Perhaps you're right... The Korean War was a proxy war... Meaning that foreign powers have something in on it for them. However the situation with the ETA is completely different... They don't have any oil or other natrual resources(If the US was so interested in "fighting oppression" then why the hell do they only "defend" the countries with strategic/monetary value?). They also don't have any political value...

[rocketman089]

Two completely different situations.

 

 

 

Perhaps you're right... The Korean War was a proxy war... Meaning that foreign powers have something in on it for them. However the situation with the ETA is completely different... They don't have any oil or other natrual resources(If the US was so interested in "fighting oppression" then why the hell do they only "defend" the countries with strategic/monetary value?). They also don't have any political value...

 

 

 

I think most people would do the same in that kind of situation. That's why people work instead of volunteer most of the time, they still contribute to community by working, but they get paid for it.

 

 

 

What's the point of doing something in place B for someone elses benefit when you can go to place A and you'll be helping yourself and C,D,E etc. It's harsh logic, and it might be tough to grasp, but these countries are being run by humans, and you know how people can be.

[Invidious]

Two completely different situations.

 

 

 

Perhaps you're right... The Korean War was a proxy war... Meaning that foreign powers have something in on it for them. However the situation with the ETA is completely different... They don't have any oil or other natrual resources(If the US was so interested in "fighting oppression" then why the hell do they only "defend" the countries with strategic/monetary value?). They also don't have any political value...

 

 

 

I think most people would do the same in that kind of situation. That's why people work instead of volunteer most of the time, they still contribute to community by working, but they get paid for it.

 

 

 

What's the point of doing something in place B for someone elses benefit when you can go to place A and you'll be helping yourself and C,D,E etc. It's harsh logic, and it might be tough for you to grasp, but these countries are being run by humans, and you know how people can be.

 

 

 

Ahhh... But the problem arises when when you aren't really helping B, C, D or E and simply going to A to help yourself while feeding the media a few shots of "happy" "liberated" "civilians".

 

 

 

Perhaps you need to be a little more cynical of the media... But then again, it may be hard for you to grasp the fact that not everything they show on TV is true...

[rocketman089]

Ahhh... But the problem arises when when you aren't really helping B, C, D or E and simply going to A to help yourself while feeding the media a few shots of "happy" "liberated" "civilians".

 

 

 

Perhaps you need to be a little more cynical of the media... But then again, it may be hard for you to grasp the fact that not everything they show on TV is true...

 

 

 

No. I'm not regurgitating things I saw on "the media", I'm being logical.

 

 

 

Besides, i'm not seeing this whole big money for the US yet. Gas/Petrol prices are almost double what the were a few years ago and the nation is still in a multitrillion dollar defecit. Show me the where all this money from invading Iraq is coming from.

[Invidious]

Ahhh... But the problem arises when when you aren't really helping B, C, D or E and simply going to A to help yourself while feeding the media a few shots of "happy" "liberated" "civilians".

 

 

 

Perhaps you need to be a little more cynical of the media... But then again, it may be hard for you to grasp the fact that not everything they show on TV is true...

 

 

 

No. I'm not regurgitating things I saw on "the media", I'm being logical.

 

 

 

Besides, i'm not seeing this whole big money for the US yet. Gas/Petrol prices are almost double what the were a few years ago and the nation is still in a multitrillion dollar defecit. Show me the where all this money from invading Iraq is coming from.

 

 

 

Show you? Try asking a tax collector for his/her real records...

 

 

 

Oil prices? Texas is almost dry now... The only reason oil prices are not triple of what they were "several years ago" is because of the oil they took from Iraq saying specofically: "I think we can be trusted to use this oil in the general good of Iraq".

 

 

 

Try Googling "Iraq Oil" or searching for it on CNN...

 

 

 

Another point of interest is that if you are not relying on the media for your information then what are you baseing your "logic" on?

[Invidious]

Since you seem to be too lazy to look I shall post a few links...

 

 

 

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20021230/hiro20021216

 

 

 

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3042111/

 

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... -2002Sep14

 

 

 

http://www.threemonkeysonline.com/three ... 20iraq.htm

 

 

 

Happy?

 

 

 

Next time try doing a little research on the subject you are talking about before accusing others with false information.

[rocketman089]

Show you? Try asking a tax collector for his/her real records...

 

 

 

Oil prices? Texas is almost dry now... The only reason oil prices are not triple of what they were "several years ago" is because of the oil they took from Iraq saying specofically: "I think we can be trusted to use this oil in the general good of Iraq".

 

 

 

Try Googling "Iraq Oil" or searching for it on CNN...

 

 

 

Another point of interest is that if you are not relying on the media for your information then what are you baseing your "logic" on?

 

 

 

I think you know better. When I said I was just being logical, I'm just saying i'm not some avatar of CNN who can't think for himself, and whether I watch the news or not has nothing to do with my logic (a method of thought, not knowledge of what's going on).

 

 

 

I mean, you're telling me not to trust the media and all, and then you tell me to search for Oil on CNN? Come on, kid :?

 

 

 

PS: Giving me links to Leftist news organizations just as or more biased than any other one isn't going to sway me any. It just shows you're a hypocrite. You smite me for "not being cynical of the media", and then throw me link after link of baised news sites.

[Invidious]

Show you? Try asking a tax collector for his/her real records...

 

 

 

Oil prices? Texas is almost dry now... The only reason oil prices are not triple of what they were "several years ago" is because of the oil they took from Iraq saying specofically: "I think we can be trusted to use this oil in the general good of Iraq".

 

 

 

Try Googling "Iraq Oil" or searching for it on CNN...

 

 

 

Another point of interest is that if you are not relying on the media for your information then what are you baseing your "logic" on?

 

 

 

I think you know better. When I said I was just being logical, I'm just saying i'm not some avatar of CNN who can't think for himself, and whether I watch the news or not has nothing to do with my logic (a method of thought, not knowledge of what's going on).

 

 

 

I mean, you're telling me not to trust the media and all, and then you tell me to search for Oil on CNN? Come on, kid :?

 

 

 

PS: Giving me links to Leftist news organizations just as or more biased than any other one isn't going to sway me any. It just shows you're a hypocrite. You smite me for "not being cynical of the media", and then throw me link after link of baised news sites.

 

 

 

Facts, maybe slightly biased facts but facts nontheless.

 

 

 

http://www.thedebate.org/thedebate/iraq.asp

 

 

 

This link should convince you... It has refferal links to CNN, BBC and other major world news companies... It also has a few quotes from leaders in the American government itself.

 

 

 

As for logic?

 

How are you able to say anything upon the Iraq-Oil issue if you do not have any knowledge of it? Is it not logical to presume that certain media outlets have been corrupted? Logic can based upon false information. When it is, the "logical" assumption is almost always wrong aswell.

 

 

 

One last thing... Don't "kid" me. You're probably some generic teenager in a shaded room living his completely secure life in America without the slightest idea of what the real world is like. As Confucious once said... "How can you know/judge others when you cannot know/judge yourself? To judge and rule over others one must first be able to judge and rule over oneself."

[Hannibal]

Umm, can we:

 

• 
   
  [*:1juwgnea]Stop threadjacking. The topic was about ETA, an organization that used terrorist activity to attempt to fight for separation of a Basque country in the region currently controlled by Spain and France, not about whether or not Bush has been abducted by aliens, er, I mean, is only in Iraq for oil.
   
  [*:1juwgnea]Keep the conspiracy theories out of an otherwise serious topic. The link you posted, Invidious, is a very biased source in itself. Considering that by following one link (to the writers of this story), I ended up on some site filled to the rim with conspiracy theories about 9/11 (the 'new pearl harbour'? wtf?!), alleged that "Osama bin Laden's niece to become pop star on American TV show", and that since the year 2000, the world has been under a New World Order. This is a fact, according to them, because the British educational system added the requirement that its students would be familiarized with the notations BCE and CE as the secular equivalents of BC and AD, since these new notations were starting to be used more commonly in new research papers in Archaelogy and History.
   
  In other words, this site tries to spread rumours and theories as facts, based on misrepresented evidence. Please don't spoil a topic about facts with pointless conspiracy theories, especially since there is already another topic about this.

 

 

 

Back on topic, it seems the Spanish and French governments are 'carefully optimistic', as they so diplomatically say, and are looking into preparing a democratic decision process. Which is good.

 

 

 

barihawk, I am sorry for your loss :(. But as a Christian, shouldn't you be happy that new steps are being made in solving this conflict peacefully? Without organizational support it is a lot harder to execute major bomb attacks (or so I should think... I don't have any experience with it of course...).

[Barihawk]

Guys, keep the Iraq oil discussions to Kryptic's thread. This thread is about the Basque situation. Acceptable off topics include the IRA and other organizations that dealt with the ETA topic.

[Invidious]

Umm, can we:

 

• 
   
  [*:8egt5287]Stop threadjacking. The topic was about ETA, an organization that used terrorist activity to attempt to fight for separation of a Basque country in the region currently controlled by Spain and France, not about whether or not Bush has been abducted by aliens, er, I mean, is only in Iraq for oil.
   
  [*:8egt5287]Keep the conspiracy theories out of an otherwise serious topic. The link you posted, Invidious, is a very biased source in itself. Considering that by following one link (to the writers of this story), I ended up on some site filled to the rim with conspiracy theories about 9/11 (the 'new pearl harbour'? *?!), alleged that "Osama bin Laden's niece to become pop star on American TV show", and that since the year 2000, the world has been under a New World Order. This is a fact, according to them, because the British educational system added the requirement that its students would be familiarized with the notations BCE and CE as the secular equivalents of BC and AD, since these new notations were starting to be used more commonly in new research papers in Archaelogy and History.
   
  In other words, this site tries to spread rumours and theories as facts, based on misrepresented evidence. Please don't spoil a topic about facts with pointless conspiracy theories, especially since there is already another topic about this.

.

 

 

 

You got me there :)

 

 

 

Back on topic, it seems the Spanish and French governments are 'carefully optimistic', as they so diplomatically say, and are looking into preparing a democratic decision process. Which is good.

 

 

 

barihawk, I am sorry for your loss :(. But as a Christian, shouldn't you be happy that new steps are being made in solving this conflict peacefully? Without organizational support it is a lot harder to execute major bomb attacks (or so I should think... I don't have any experience with it of course...)

 

 

 

Perhaps major bomb attacks would be harder to coordinate but the violence would be worse than ever. Without central directives the individual cells would have to act on their own initiative. The cells would also be cut off from contact to other cells meaning that if you capture one or several cells and interrogate them the outcome would be nothing. Without some sort of organization directing them intel would also be a hard thing to come by as spies sent in by the government would have virtually no effect on gaining the right intel whatsoever.

 

In some ways chaos among the enemy can be more dangerous than order...