Do you believe in God?

[magekillr]

 

Do I believe in God? Yes I do. I'm a Christian who is 13 years old. I have been healed by the power of God not long ago. AND THIS IS NO JOKES I KNOW that God exists.

 

 

 

You can't KNOW thats god exists. All you have is faith.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yep...totally true

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it cannot be proven for a fact God exists....but i know that he exists through faith

[Fighter_101]

I do and always will no matter what. 8)

[Th-Lmbr-Jck]

God is what ever you want him/her/it to be. God could be 'the dial on your dishwaser' ir the metal bit that holds the rubber to the end of your pencil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do i believe in the god (the religous one) nope.

[insane]

Ack I go away and this gets reborn...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true).

 

 

 

3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution.

 

 

 

5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If evolution were true and the universe has always existed... then wouldn't everything be perfect by now? I mean, eternity is certainly enough time for evolution to perfect everything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, don't bother starting arguments with me as I won't be able to check these boards nearly as much as I used to.... maybe once every two weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I believe God exists. :)

[Usara]

Ack I go away and this gets reborn...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true).

 

 

 

3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution.

 

 

 

5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If evolution were true and the universe has always existed... then wouldn't everything be perfect by now? I mean, eternity is certainly enough time for evolution to perfect everything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, don't bother starting arguments with me as I won't be able to check these boards nearly as much as I used to.... maybe once every two weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I believe God exists. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is the cause of Gods exsistance? What caused God? The 2nd law of thermodynamics proves that God couldnt have always exsisted, so if he exsists he needs a creator and his creator needs a creator ad infinitum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you put the entire universe on a 24 hour time frame, the exsistance of humans makes up the last two seconds of that 24 hour time frame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Evolution is pretty slow.

[____]

That's actually on a 356 day scale :P

 

 

 

Humans don't enter the "calander" untill the last minute or so of the year :o

[Usara]

 

You know what i find particularly sad about christians expecially is their all talk no action stance on life....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some Christians don't do as much practical work as perhaps they should, I agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a homless guy near me who sits on the bridge. Ive seen people go up to him and say things like "god bless you" or "i will pray you find a home soon". What good does that do? Hes still there everyday, still homeless.

 

 

 

The otherday i bought him a hot pie to eat. Now tell me whats better, me giving him some food. Or some guy praying for him?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very similar in idea to thses Bible verses:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What i did for him wasnt christian, it didnt do it out of love for jesus or any rubbish like that, i didnt do it because i want to be good and get into heaven. I did it because i am a nice person and he was hungry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You didn't do it for any Christian beliefs, but what you did was Christian. Your analysis of some Christians who don't do as they preach is a good one, as you see in those verses I quoted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So god can smite me all he wants, im still a better person than you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's debatable ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How was God created?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If God created time, then we can say that He exists outside of its influence. You only have a "beginning" or "end" within time, so God just was. It's tough to think about, but pretty reasonable too.

 

 

 

I do believe thats the biggest cop out of an answer ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How come?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The atheist who helps others with no thought to reward, desiring nothing in retribution, is far, far greater than the christian who helps because they desire eternal reward.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Helping others is not christian, its a nice thing to do, some people don't need eternal reward as a motivation for helping others, because they are better than that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And also, time is a concept, you can't ceate time except in concept. You can turn back every single clock in the world back 1 hour, but you don't get an extra hour added to your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merc is right, cop outs are the only defense christians have, yoou have a mouldy old book which may or may not be nearly complete fiction (Jesus coulda been a conman) we have no solid evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your stupid, you know why? cause God just told me :roll: . Disprove that.

[Death_By_Pod]

Ack I go away and this gets reborn...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true).

 

 

 

3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution.

 

 

 

5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If evolution were true and the universe has always existed... then wouldn't everything be perfect by now? I mean, eternity is certainly enough time for evolution to perfect everything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, don't bother starting arguments with me as I won't be able to check these boards nearly as much as I used to.... maybe once every two weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I believe God exists. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Quantum Fluctuations appear out of nowhere and annihilate with their anti partner almost instantly. One of the few natural reasons for its use is to help black holes "radiate" energy (the anti partner falls in the black hole, making it smaller while allowing the particle to be released into space).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. Our current universe has a beginning that doesnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t mean that all the energy that makes up the universe began at the same time as the universe did (it could have clumped in another dimension, been the implosion of a previous universe etc. there are many possibilities).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Therefore this line does not hold true (even if you were right, your logic is stretching what reality really means and how it relates to origins of the universe)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. This law exists in a classical sense. It is true that if you put the universe in a box everything in that box will move towards higher entropy, however we are talking a lot about what happens outside of the box and for all you know thermodynamics may not exist at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because the universe is not a "steady state" model there is a beginning and a possible end. Even if you disregard this fact stars themselves have a beginning and an end. This cycle represents life for a species as without an energy source there is no way life could exist. A pro evolution experiment would be:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The famous experiment done by Stanley Miller when he was a graduate student at the University of Chicago in the early 1950s. Miller essentially put methane, or natural gas, ammonia, hydrogen gas and water vapour into a beaker. That wasn't a random mixture; at the time he did the experiment that was at least one view of what the primordial atmosphere would have looked like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then he did a brilliant thing. He simply put an electric charge through that mixture to simulate lightning going through an early atmosphere. After sitting around for a couple of days, all of a sudden there was this brown goo all over the reaction vessel. When he analysed what was in the vessel, rather than only having methane and ammonia, he actually had amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins. In fact, he had them in just about the same proportions you would find if you looked at organic matter in a meteorite. So the chemistry that Miller was discovering in this wonderful experiment was not some improbable chemistry, but a chemistry that is widely distributed throughout our solar system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This means that when a planet with suitable elements for life as well a star to power planet interactions, life will most likely form.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5. Therefore this line makes even less sense then the last claim.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I said before evolution takes a really long to make "perfect" animals for their environment. As they move away from their old environment they make develop weaknesses as they enter a new environment sparking the need for even further evolution.

 

 

 

As the universe as well as our planet (which has been in existence for a lot less) and the habitable environment has had a finite lifecycle, humans have had extremely little time to develop to what we have become today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you need to post completely ignorant posts asking for people not to refute them, what is the point of a discussion? Maybe someone else would like to have a go against this solid rebuttal.

[HugATree]

Do I believe in God? Yes I do. I'm a Christian who is 13 years old. I have been healed by the power of God not long ago. AND THIS IS NO JOKES I KNOW that God exists. these reasons:

 

 

 

1. Why would someone make up such a story? why are there so many churches?

 

 

 

2. Miricles happen!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Knowing doesn't make your argument anymore verifible, knowing is a mental process.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, just go to church! Have a go at it! Do you want to go to Heaven or Hell??? Your choice.

 

 

 

Church is just a sampler for the real torture in heaven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't be embarressed by believing in God, you should be proud :!: :!: :!: :!: :D

 

 

 

I wasn't embarressed when I believed in God, nor am I embarressed I woke up out of the fantasy world.

[jackalope14]

Church is just a sampler for the real torture in heaven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well you absolutely know nothing. If you knew anything about how the bible explains heaven you would know it isnt like church. Church isnt a MUST for christians its just a place where you can go to learn more about your faith and have fellowship with others that share your beliefs.

[chambochae]

Ack I go away and this gets reborn...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true).

 

 

 

3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution.

 

 

 

5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen you get this wrong so many times now. The laws of physics, including the laws of thermodynamics, only apply to things inside our universe, not NECESSARILY the universe itself. In order to prove your reasoning, you would have to prove the laws of physics apply to the universe as a unit, in other words you would have to prove that the laws of thermodynamics apply outside this universe, and for all you know the concept might not even make sense. In the same way that for all we know pi could be a number other than 3.14... , or that 'numbers' have no recognisable definition, or that the concept of 'definition' doesn't make any sense at all! You are reasoning with things that you just don't know hold any relevance whatsoever to the situation.

[HugATree]

 

Church is just a sampler for the real torture in heaven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well you absolutely know nothing. If you knew anything about how the bible explains heaven you would know it isnt like church. Church isnt a MUST for christians its just a place where you can go to learn more about your faith and have fellowship with others that share your beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know I'd be surrounded with people like you. That is torture.

[JohnnySmum]

The atheist who helps others with no thought to reward, desiring nothing in retribution, is far, far greater than the christian who helps because they desire eternal reward.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Helping others is not christian, its a nice thing to do, some people don't need eternal reward as a motivation for helping others, because they are better than that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians don't (or at least shouldn't) do good things in order to gain eternal life, because their salvation isn't based on that. Rather, becoming a Christian genuinly changes the person's values, so that they want to be more Christ-like, which can only be a good thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians could just sit back and live as they did before - after all, what does it matter how they behave - they're guaranteed heaven. But they don't. They actively take it upon themselves to live a life pleasing to God, despite their assurance of salvation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christians don't have to be good to people, and the fact that they are should illustrate the positive effect Christianity has both to the individual and the community.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And also, time is a concept, you can't ceate time except in concept. You can turn back every single clock in the world back 1 hour, but you don't get an extra hour added to your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr Einstein and his special theory of relativity would beg to differ ;). Time is a very real, if not tangible, thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merc is right, cop outs are the only defense christians have, yoou have a mouldy old book which may or may not be nearly complete fiction (Jesus coulda been a conman) we have no solid evidence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He (speaking reverently) wasn't a very good conman, if that's all He was! Not my idea of success; being hated by everyone and killed by crucifixion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your stupid, you know why? cause God just told me . Disprove that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may be onto something with that one ;)

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And also, time is a concept, you can't ceate time except in concept. You can turn back every single clock in the world back 1 hour, but you don't get an extra hour added to your life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr Einstein and his special theory of relativity would beg to differ ;). Time is a very real, if not tangible, thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only thing in special relativity that describes time is time dialation.

 

 

 

However I agree with teh idea that time is an intangeble concept. The only reason why time exists is because conciosuness exists (sure stars will keep going through their cycles and the universe will expand but there is nothing to measure the rate of change therefore we dont know what time it is in the universe).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time is thought of as a never ending line of images (divided by a interval of time). It is a screen shot of everything that happens at that specific moment. Einstien talked about these images bending depending on your frame of refernce (time dialation, length contraction). Also time has a flow (for eg. it moves in the direction of increasing entrophy) and also there is time travel (moving forward by travelling near the speed of light) and backwards (through rotating around extremely warped space-time).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you were a backwards time traveler (which has no real evidence to even suggest its existence) you would always go through some kind of space (therefore you move through time). If you went from October 2004 to October 1990 it would still seem mentally like October 2004 (its just the next day in your life), however everything around you would be living in 1990.

[gonpost]

Ack I go away and this gets reborn...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true).

 

 

 

3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution.

 

 

 

5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If evolution were true and the universe has always existed... then wouldn't everything be perfect by now? I mean, eternity is certainly enough time for evolution to perfect everything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, don't bother starting arguments with me as I won't be able to check these boards nearly as much as I used to.... maybe once every two weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I believe God exists. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I AGREE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

anyway isn't purpose what drives us all mad? isn't it what hope is used to combat? Isn't it why we live every day, to find one?

[Zealot]

 

Ack I go away and this gets reborn...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true).

 

 

 

3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution.

 

 

 

5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen you get this wrong so many times now. The laws of physics, including the laws of thermodynamics, only apply to things inside our universe, not NECESSARILY the universe itself. In order to prove your reasoning, you would have to prove the laws of physics apply to the universe as a unit, in other words you would have to prove that the laws of thermodynamics apply outside this universe, and for all you know the concept might not even make sense. In the same way that for all we know pi could be a number other than 3.14... , or that 'numbers' have no recognisable definition, or that the concept of 'definition' doesn't make any sense at all! You are reasoning with things that you just don't know hold any relevance whatsoever to the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a bit confused, because it seems to me that the law of thermodinamics applies to the total amount of useable energy in the universe, and states that as time progresses, this number drops... Eg. at the big bang, there was so much available energy in so small a space that it was impossible for even hydrogen atoms to exist... but as time progressed, and the universe inflated, the overall level of useable energy dropped, leading to the first atoms being born... As time progressed, more and more energy became unavailable, allowing stars and heavier elements to form. Eventually, we come to the universe in the condition that it is in now... but as time progresses, the amount of useable energy continues to decrease (radioactive decay, and solar fusion being two examples) Please correct me where I'm wrong, but it really seems to me that because the law of thermodynamics applies to all things in the universe, it just makes sence that it is applying to the entire universe (because, after all, the universe is the sum of its components...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I would argue that numers have an inherent value appart from humans assigning it to them: eg, before pi was known, the circumfrence of a circle was equal to its diameter times pi... that was something that humans simply found out, not something we invented. Pi can not be any number other then what it is, because by deffinition, pi is the number you get when you divide a circle's circumferance by its diameter... which happens to be approximately 3.14... and would be regardless of what it was called, or what circle you use to determine it. In the same way, two is exactly this many periods ".." it isn't this many, "..." or this many, "." because two is the convention that we use for this many periods ".." (and every other concievable object in that quantity) the meaning behind the word was there long before the word was coined, and the meaning will remain long after the word "two" ceaces to be used. So where does this meaning come from? Where, other then intelligence, has meaning ever come from? What rock assigns meaning to the term, "limestone?" What star defined "white dwarf?" What atom created the meaning of "iron?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In truth, it is humans who gave meaning to these terms, before meaning was assigned, the term "white dwarf" could have refered anything, or nothing at all. Intelligence is the only force that has been observed to give things meaning. And I would argue is the only force capable of doing so... so the fact that there are things that have meaning apart from human deffinition (abstract concepts like numbers being counted among these "things" but in fact, everything has an inherent meaning if you really think about it; limestone was what it is before it was assigned that name [humans gave the name, not the object, meaning] and will continue to be what it is even if it ever ceaces to be called limestone) points to some sort of overmind that created and gave meaning to them... and to a Christian, that is part of who God is... He's much more then that, though. In fact, no matter what box, I try to put God in, He just won't fit. To attempt to define Him is to do Him a great injustice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good points Jonnysmum, especially about Jesus being a horrible failure as far as con artists are concerned :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your stupid, you know why? cause God just told me . Disprove that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Funny, isn't it, that throughout the Bible, prophets (people who speak on God's behalf) have backed up their words from Him with clear evidences (miracles) Show me a miracle, and I'll believe you... until then, I'll happily go on being stupid in your eyes, (as I suspect will most Christians :wink: ) because we're interested in doing what makes Daddy happy, even if that doesn't neccicarily lead to the good will of our fellow man :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The famous experiment done by Stanley Miller when he was a graduate student at the University of Chicago in the early 1950s. Miller essentially put methane, or natural gas, ammonia, hydrogen gas and water vapour into a beaker. That wasn't a random mixture; at the time he did the experiment that was at least one view of what the primordial atmosphere would have looked like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

His idea of what the primordial atmosphere would have looked like was later proven to be skewed. If in fact a proper mix was used, I will grant that "organic" molecules would have formed, but nothing that is at all useful for creating life. He would have come up with embalming fluid... (which for those of you who don't know, is toxic to absolutely all forms of life, because of damage that it reeks on the cellular level) :roll: Though interesting historically, Miller's experiment proved nothing... To be honest, I wish that people would stop pretending that it "proves" evolution... Even my Historical Geology teacher from two years ago agreed with me on this point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would also point out that life is more then simply ameno acids... They have to combine in a precise order to create a protine that is capable of self replication. The only force that has ever been observed to create order out of chaos is intelligence. Because of the complexity of the ordering neccicary, and the fact that most cellular systems can not be simplified without losing functionality entirely, it really does not make sence to say that life originated from any force other then intelligence.

[Awskid]

Edit: Wasn't appropriate and wasn't something a Christian should say.

[Zealot]

 

Ack I go away and this gets reborn...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true).

 

 

 

3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution.

 

 

 

5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If evolution were true and the universe has always existed... then wouldn't everything be perfect by now? I mean, eternity is certainly enough time for evolution to perfect everything...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, don't bother starting arguments with me as I won't be able to check these boards nearly as much as I used to.... maybe once every two weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I believe God exists. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I AGREE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

anyway isn't purpose what drives us all mad? isn't it what hope is used to combat? Isn't it why we live every day, to find one?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd argue that seeking after false purposes is the problem... Once you know what it is that you were created to do, and are doing it, it's good to be alive... Regardless of what exactly that purpose is :)

[Death_By_Pod]

 

 

Ack I go away and this gets reborn...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Everything that has a beginning has a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

2. The universe had a beginning (Big Bang is widely accepted as true).

 

 

 

3. Therefore the universe had a cause for its existence.

 

 

 

4. The universe cannot have always existed... 2nd law of thermodynamics takes this out of consideration.... as well as evolution.

 

 

 

5. Therefore I believe God caused the Big Bang and the universe to come into existence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen you get this wrong so many times now. The laws of physics, including the laws of thermodynamics, only apply to things inside our universe, not NECESSARILY the universe itself. In order to prove your reasoning, you would have to prove the laws of physics apply to the universe as a unit, in other words you would have to prove that the laws of thermodynamics apply outside this universe, and for all you know the concept might not even make sense. In the same way that for all we know pi could be a number other than 3.14... , or that 'numbers' have no recognisable definition, or that the concept of 'definition' doesn't make any sense at all! You are reasoning with things that you just don't know hold any relevance whatsoever to the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a bit confused, because it seems to me that the law of thermodinamics applies to the total amount of useable energy in the universe, and states that as time progresses, this number drops... Eg. at the big bang, there was so much available energy in so small a space that it was impossible for even hydrogen atoms to exist... but as time progressed, and the universe inflated, the overall level of useable energy dropped, leading to the first atoms being born... As time progressed, more and more energy became unavailable, allowing stars and heavier elements to form. Eventually, we come to the universe in the condition that it is in now... but as time progresses, the amount of useable energy continues to decrease (radioactive decay, and solar fusion being two examples) Please correct me where I'm wrong, but it really seems to me that because the law of thermodynamics applies to all things in the universe, it just makes sence that it is applying to the entire universe (because, after all, the universe is the sum of its components...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I would argue that numers have an inherent value appart from humans assigning it to them: eg, before pi was known, the circumfrence of a circle was equal to its diameter times pi... that was something that humans simply found out, not something we invented. Pi can not be any number other then what it is, because by deffinition, pi is the number you get when you divide a circle's circumferance by its diameter... which happens to be approximately 3.14... and would be regardless of what it was called, or what circle you use to determine it. In the same way, two is exactly this many periods ".." it isn't this many, "..." or this many, "." because two is the convention that we use for this many periods ".." (and every other concievable object in that quantity) the meaning behind the word was there long before the word was coined, and the meaning will remain long after the word "two" ceaces to be used. So where does this meaning come from? Where, other then intelligence, has meaning ever come from? What rock assigns meaning to the term, "limestone?" What star defined "white dwarf?" What atom created the meaning of "iron?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In truth, it is humans who gave meaning to these terms, before meaning was assigned, the term "white dwarf" could have refered anything, or nothing at all. Intelligence is the only force that has been observed to give things meaning. And I would argue is the only force capable of doing so... so the fact that there are things that have meaning apart from human deffinition (abstract concepts like numbers being counted among these "things" but in fact, everything has an inherent meaning if you really think about it; limestone was what it is before it was assigned that name [humans gave the name, not the object, meaning] and will continue to be what it is even if it ever ceaces to be called limestone) points to some sort of overmind that created and gave meaning to them... and to a Christian, that is part of who God is... He's much more then that, though. In fact, no matter what box, I try to put God in, He just won't fit. To attempt to define Him is to do Him a great injustice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good points Jonnysmum, especially about Jesus being a horrible failure as far as con artists are concerned :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your stupid, you know why? cause God just told me . Disprove that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Funny, isn't it, that throughout the Bible, prophets (people who speak on God's behalf) have backed up their words from Him with clear evidences (miracles) Show me a miracle, and I'll believe you... until then, I'll happily go on being stupid in your eyes, (as I suspect will most Christians :wink: ) because we're interested in doing what makes Daddy happy, even if that doesn't neccicarily lead to the good will of our fellow man :wink:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The famous experiment done by Stanley Miller when he was a graduate student at the University of Chicago in the early 1950s. Miller essentially put methane, or natural gas, ammonia, hydrogen gas and water vapour into a beaker. That wasn't a random mixture; at the time he did the experiment that was at least one view of what the primordial atmosphere would have looked like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

His idea of what the primordial atmosphere would have looked like was later proven to be skewed. If in fact a proper mix was used, I will grant that "organic" molecules would have formed, but nothing that is at all useful for creating life. He would have come up with embalming fluid... (which for those of you who don't know, is toxic to absolutely all forms of life, because of damage that it reeks on the cellular level) :roll: Though interesting historically, Miller's experiment proved nothing... To be honest, I wish that people would stop pretending that it "proves" evolution... Even my Historical Geology teacher from two years ago agreed with me on this point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would also point out that life is more then simply ameno acids... They have to combine in a precise order to create a protine that is capable of self replication. The only force that has ever been observed to create order out of chaos is intelligence. Because of the complexity of the ordering neccicary, and the fact that most cellular systems can not be simplified without losing functionality entirely, it really does not make sence to say that life originated from any force other then intelligence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I will try and give a response to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly the problem of physics is that we can not go to every location in the universe and test the laws of physics. We know that the law's of our physics work on planet earth and to a less of an extent the solar system and the galaxy and most likely the rest visible universe. However it is impossible to really know if other galaxies conform to ours. Maybe they consist entirely of anti-particles or maybe it exists in a slightly cooler part of the universe which has undergone another phase transition providing another force for it to play with. It is just really difficult to tell; and this is just INSIDE our visible part of the universe. There could be even more mysterious things lurking about (not to mention stuff inside our visible universe). There could be whole new universes inside our universe. The law may work now (because it is obviously what we observe) but it may fail in the future if the universe collapses. It's like saying the sun is this temperature so therefore it must alway be this temperature; further observation shows this is false and may happen for the second law of thermodynamics as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t see to get is that our laws of physics probably donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t exist OUTSIDE the universe. Therefore you can not use the second law of thermodynamics as proof for the universe having a beginning unless you prove that the law exists outside of the universe. It allows the possibility that universes may be created of destroyed at any time. It also means the big bang is plausible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About objects and ideas having meaning and definition:

 

 

 

Why try to add Complexity (God) to the universe when the laws of physics are capable of creating everything you see here without the need for a higher power. If we didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t exist then there is no need for things to have a meaning, the universe will carry on "as is".

 

 

 

Unless I'm reading you wrong here...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Funny, isn't it, that throughout the Bible, prophets (people who speak on God's behalf) have backed up their words from Him with clear evidences (miracles)?ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[BlueLancer]

By the way, some people that have died in the 21st century have arranged their bodies to be preserved cryogenically in the hope that they can be brought back to life when the techonogy enables it. If it becomes possible, these people can inform the world if there actually was a heaven or hell after death, and how they came back to the physical body if they claim there was heaven or hell. It would ultimately lead in churches collapsing.

[zed]

I don't care if you people believe in god or santa claus or michael jackson.

 

 

 

All this god-hype is just so hilarious :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Blipo]

ya i do and really, i want someone to thouroly explain aethieism(or however u spell it) to me

 

 

 

see, big bang-pinpoint of material-explades and eventually forms th universe but where did that matter come from?

 

 

 

of course God, being a god, can do anything (according to every mythology ever written) so he can make himself live for ever

[Blipo]

By the way, some people that have died in the 21st century have arranged their bodies to be preserved cryogenically in the hope that they can be brought back to life when the techonogy enables it. If it becomes possible, these people can inform the world if there actually was a heaven or hell after death, and how they came back to the physical body if they claim there was heaven or hell. It would ultimately lead in churches collapsing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

let me say something---cryogenics is for people who have uncurable deseases, not people who are already dead!

[Sab128]

Yeah I do but its complimacated...

[Predator]

Yes, I do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Off-topic: Why does it say Merciful is the author if Kryptix or whatever it is made it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yay, 400th post.