Flag holding in cw, Cheating or not?

[unkn0wnwarrior]

its not cheating at and its always fun if your the one holding the flag keeping it from the other team. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

can you read what i posted just above you? I said that it is not fun for the OTHER team. Why spoil one team's fun for the pure fun of yourself?

Because you aren't there to make their job fun, you're there to have fun yourself?

[darkforaster]

its not cheating at and its always fun if your the one holding the flag keeping it from the other team. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

can you read what i posted just above you? I said that it is not fun for the OTHER team. Why spoil one team's fun for the pure fun of yourself?

Because you aren't there to make their job fun, you're there to have fun yourself?

 

 

 

yes but shouldn't ALL have fun? or are you so selfish you want all the fun to go to you and your team, no one else?

[unkn0wnwarrior]

its not cheating at and its always fun if your the one holding the flag keeping it from the other team. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

can you read what i posted just above you? I said that it is not fun for the OTHER team. Why spoil one team's fun for the pure fun of yourself?

Because you aren't there to make their job fun, you're there to have fun yourself?

 

 

 

yes but shouldn't ALL have fun? or are you so selfish you want all the fun to go to you and your team, no one else?

Of course, all should have fun. But, they have the same ability to hold their flag.

[snowager286]

oh ya I suppose we could always just kill the lvl 100+ with full torags and high mage resistance and take the flag from him :roll:

 

 

 

Flag holding is cheating, it should've never even been allowed. Why? because it ruins the game for the other team.

 

 

 

Personally I try and get the flag holder to give me the flag so i can give it back.....but i always get called "spy" "loser" "jerk" "-insert bypassed censor word in here-". So what if it ruins our game, I'd rather not ruin theirs.

[Rebdragon]

Interesting that it's only cheating to the people too weak to steal the flag or flaghold themselves.

 

 

 

Flag holding is cheating, it should've never even been allowed. Why? because it ruins the game for the other team.

 

Each team plays to win. By definition, each team is out to ruin the game for the other team. So, cheating for you is defined as seeking to achieve the goal of the game?

 

 

 

Have you ever done anything competitive in your life? Sports? Xbox Live? Extreme Chess? Anything?

[trunksrs]

Interesting that it's only cheating to the people too weak to steal the flag or flaghold themselves.

 

 

 

Flag holding is cheating, it should've never even been allowed. Why? because it ruins the game for the other team.

 

Each team plays to win. By definition, each team is out to ruin the game for the other team. So, cheating for you is defined as seeking to achieve the goal of the game?

 

 

 

Have you ever done anything competitive in your life? Sports? Xbox Live? Extreme Chess? Anything?

 

 

 

I've played quite a few sports. I believe there is a saying that goes something like "It's not whether you when or loose, it's how you play the game." Just because you loose doesn't mean the game was ruined. What does ruin the game is going up against an opponent that you just can't beat.

[vilageidiotx]

Its not cheating, or it wouldn't be allowed. I feel it does take an element of the game experience away, so yes it is questionable, but as of now its just part if the game we have to deal with. Still, i wouldn't at all be upset if jagex did put a stop to it.

[Rebdragon]

Interesting that it's only cheating to the people too weak to steal the flag or flaghold themselves.

 

 

 

Flag holding is cheating, it should've never even been allowed. Why? because it ruins the game for the other team.

 

Each team plays to win. By definition, each team is out to ruin the game for the other team. So, cheating for you is defined as seeking to achieve the goal of the game?

 

 

 

Have you ever done anything competitive in your life? Sports? Xbox Live? Extreme Chess? Anything?

 

 

 

I've played quite a few sports. I believe there is a saying that goes something like "It's not whether you when or loose, it's how you play the game." Just because you loose doesn't mean the game was ruined. What does ruin the game is going up against an opponent that you just can't beat.

 

Trunks ol' bud, the problem with that point is that both teams have that ability. It'd be cheating if only one team could do it, but since both teams are on a level playing field it can't really be considered cheating.

 

 

 

If the other team is strong enough to flaghold and your team isn't, they're probably already stronger and more strategic than your team anyways, so "going up an opponent you just can't beat" most likely has little to do with flagholding.

[trunksrs]

Interesting that it's only cheating to the people too weak to steal the flag or flaghold themselves.

 

 

 

Flag holding is cheating, it should've never even been allowed. Why? because it ruins the game for the other team.

 

Each team plays to win. By definition, each team is out to ruin the game for the other team. So, cheating for you is defined as seeking to achieve the goal of the game?

 

 

 

Have you ever done anything competitive in your life? Sports? Xbox Live? Extreme Chess? Anything?

 

 

 

I've played quite a few sports. I believe there is a saying that goes something like "It's not whether you when or loose, it's how you play the game." Just because you loose doesn't mean the game was ruined. What does ruin the game is going up against an opponent that you just can't beat.

 

Trunks ol' bud, the problem with that point is that both teams have that ability. It'd be cheating if only one team could do it, but since both teams are on a level playing field it can't really be considered cheating.

 

 

 

If the other team is strong enough to flaghold and your team isn't, they're probably already stronger and more strategic than your team anyways, so "going up an opponent you just can't beat" most likely has little to do with flagholding.

 

 

 

I didn't say it was cheating, just that it isn't fun. I've been on teams before where we did eventually manage to kill the flag holder, usually on the rocks so it goes back to their castle. The problem is, once someone gets their own flag, it takes the pressure off their castle, and requires more force from the other team on the flag holder. This not only gives the flag holding team better defence, but also allows them to get the other teams flag more easily. So by the time we do finally get the flag back, we're too far down to make a comeback. Not only that, but once people realize the other time has it's flag, alot of people leave and try to get on the other team, even further decreasing the chances of a successful comeback.

 

 

 

I've been on teams before when we got our own teams flag too. Once that happens, there's really nothing left for me to do on that side either. So I personally don't find flag holding matches fun from either side, even if I'm winning.

 

 

 

Edit: Ok, looking back now, I suppose I was referring to an argument that was calling it cheating. However, it was still not my intention to say flag holding is cheating.

[darkforaster]

its not cheating at and its always fun if your the one holding the flag keeping it from the other team. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

can you read what i posted just above you? I said that it is not fun for the OTHER team. Why spoil one team's fun for the pure fun of yourself?

Because you aren't there to make their job fun, you're there to have fun yourself?

 

 

 

yes but shouldn't ALL have fun? or are you so selfish you want all the fun to go to you and your team, no one else?

Of course, all should have fun.

 

 

 

But, they have the same ability to hold their flag.

 

 

 

yes but if both teams hold thier flag then it comes to a stalemate, then BOTH teams will get bored. completely ruining the game.

[darkforaster]

stuff

stuff

stuff

 

Trunks ol' bud, the problem with that point is that both teams have that ability. It'd be cheating if only one team could do it, but since both teams are on a level playing field it can't really be considered cheating.

 

 

 

If the other team is strong enough to flaghold and your team isn't, they're probably already stronger and more strategic than your team anyways, so "going up an opponent you just can't beat" most likely has little to do with flagholding.

 

 

 

if both hold the flag, then it comes to a stalemate and everyone gets bored. so basically the game is wrecked all because of a little flag holding.

 

 

 

That's really fair :shame: :roll: -.- :boohoo: :shock:

[Rebdragon]

if both hold the flag, then it comes to a stalemate and everyone gets bored. so basically the game is wrecked all because of a little flag holding.

 

 

 

That's really fair :shame: :roll: -.- :boohoo: :shock:

 

1) Find out the definition of fair. Please. Please.

 

 

 

2) Good use of random emotes! Kudos to you especially for the roll emote.

 

 

 

I'll agree wih trunks and others that it can make games less fun for some (though not me, since I'm always the flagholder :-w :wink: ), but it's nowhere close to cheating or being "unfair", so don't argue it as if it is.

 

 

 

Nonetheless, saying that it makes some games "less fun" for some people is no ground for asking for it to be removed. Ancienting makes in less fun for some people. Barricades make it less fun for some people. Locked doors make it less fun for some. Rock cave-in-kills make it less fun for some. Bandages make it less fun for some. The undergound itself may make it less fun for some. Heck, the catapults make it less for for plenty of people as well. That's still no grounds to request that they be removed.

[ben331]

i am not against flag holding, but i do think that an auto safe where the flag is put back in the castle should happen after 5 miniutes of holding the flag

[timmyboy1234]

I think that being able to hold your own teams flag should be allowed. Most people who disagree the ones that can't get their own/any flag. You screw up, lose the flag, the other team should be rewarded.

 

Its very easy to lose the flag anyways. I screw up, and your dead. Even a persistent lvl 60 with a gmaul could kill you(if he finds you that is :P ).

[mrmyk]

its not cheating at and its always fun if your the one holding the flag keeping it from the other team. :thumbsup:

 

 

 

can you read what i posted just above you? I said that it is not fun for the OTHER team. Why spoil one team's fun for the pure fun of yourself?

Because you aren't there to make their job fun, you're there to have fun yourself?

 

 

 

yes but shouldn't ALL have fun? or are you so selfish you want all the fun to go to you and your team, no one else?

Of course, all should have fun.

 

 

 

But, they have the same ability to hold their flag.

 

yes but if both teams hold thier flag then it comes to a stalemate, then BOTH teams will get bored. completely ruining the game.

 

 

 

 

 

no...if both teams are holding it can be relatively simple

 

 

 

1. find members of your own team and tell them to go kill the flag holder

 

2. lure the flag holder into their own base to safe it or kill them by collapsing the rocks

 

 

 

It is not boring but actually makes the game more exciting because if 1 flag holder messes up then it could be gameover

[Kenshinjapan]

It is legitimate. If the enemy gets hold of their own flag it's because you screwed up somehow. You made a mistake and pay the consequences

 

 

 

The only problem is when you have an idiot on your team (usually a level 20 that has never played before) and they just run for the flag and instantly lose it. Thats not really fair IMO and is certainly not your fault. So I personally think that the entire team should pay the consequences of 1 player's stupidity. Now the way I would fix it is to automatically drain some of the flag holders stats, possibly make them much slower, or have it to where their teammates can't use bandages on him. Probably not the best idea but it's something :thumbsup: .

[darkforaster]

yes but if both teams hold thier flag then it comes to a stalemate, then BOTH teams will get bored. completely ruining the game.

 

 

 

 

 

no...if both teams are holding it can be relatively simple

 

 

 

1. find members of your own team and tell them to go kill the flag holder

 

2. lure the flag holder into their own base to safe it or kill them by collapsing the rocks

 

 

 

It is not boring but actually makes the game more exciting because if 1 flag holder messes up then it could be gameover

 

 

 

1) NO ONE EVER DOES THIS! you can ask them. But they'll never do it. Besides usually some of the opposing team is protecting the flag. Making an assault possible.

 

 

 

2) by luring you mean chasing right? it doesn't work. They just run in circles in and out of the tunnels. Near the island part. It's kindf of sad watching them.

 

 

 

3) uh huh, I've never seen 1 flag holder mess up before. besides. There are many other people protecting the flag with he holder him/herself. They'll just pick up the flag.

[darkforaster]

if both hold the flag, then it comes to a stalemate and everyone gets bored. so basically the game is wrecked all because of a little flag holding.

 

 

 

That's really fair :shame: :roll: -.- :boohoo: :shock:

 

1) Find out the definition of fair. Please. Please.

 

 

 

2) Good use of random emotes! Kudos to you especially for the roll emote.

 

 

 

I'll agree wih trunks and others that it can make games less fun for some (though not me, since I'm always the flagholder :-w :wink: ), but it's nowhere close to cheating or being "unfair", so don't argue it as if it is.

 

 

 

Nonetheless, saying that it makes some games "less fun" for some people is no ground for asking for it to be removed. Ancienting makes in less fun for some people. Barricades make it less fun for some people. Locked doors make it less fun for some. Rock cave-in-kills make it less fun for some. Bandages make it less fun for some. The undergound itself may make it less fun for some. Heck, the catapults make it less for for plenty of people as well. That's still no grounds to request that they be removed.

 

 

 

1) "unbiased and reasonable" english distionary yes that's what i thought it was anyway. (I was being sarcastic.)

 

 

 

2) they are not random. I chose them especially for that line. I'm not stupid you know.

 

 

 

3) some people eh? so that's why my team was angry at the end of my last castlewars game. that game did have flagholders everywhere.

 

 

 

if both teams had held there flags. It would get a bit repetitive chasing them down. Don't you think? or is clicking constantly fun and never gets repetitive. :-k

 

 

 

p.s. 3) was sarcasm by the way. Just so you know this time. :wink:

[mrmyk]

yes but if both teams hold thier flag then it comes to a stalemate, then BOTH teams will get bored. completely ruining the game.

 

 

 

 

 

no...if both teams are holding it can be relatively simple

 

 

 

1. find members of your own team and tell them to go kill the flag holder

 

2. lure the flag holder into their own base to safe it or kill them by collapsing the rocks

 

 

 

It is not boring but actually makes the game more exciting because if 1 flag holder messes up then it could be gameover

 

 

 

1) NO ONE EVER DOES THIS! you can ask them. But they'll never do it. Besides usually some of the opposing team is protecting the flag. Making an assault possible.

 

 

 

2) by luring you mean chasing right? it doesn't work. They just run in circles in and out of the tunnels. Near the island part. It's kindf of sad watching them.

 

 

 

3) uh huh, I've never seen 1 flag holder mess up before. besides. There are many other people protecting the flag with he holder him/herself. They'll just pick up the flag.

 

 

 

you obviously underestimate the average cw player. I've got over 1900 tickets so know what to do to get flag back ;)

 

 

 

1. People do do this as long as you talk to them with respect.

 

2. You make them attack you with flag as they think they wont die then run into tunnels and use a pot to collapse on them. If they are running in and out of the tunnels then your work is much much easier.

 

3. I've seen countless flag holders mess up. It is rare that a flag holder has a huge extremely powerful protection squad as in busy games where this is possible flag holders do tend to run around a lot and can lose the protection easily.

 

 

 

All your points aren't true

[Rebdragon]

1) "unbiased and reasonable" english distionary yes that's what i thought it was anyway. (I was being sarcastic.)

 

Both teams have an equal opportunity to grab the flag; the map is symmetric. The only remaining factor is team capability, and thus it is solely the players' fault if they lose, not anything else.

 

 

 

Again, both teams have an equal opportunity to flaghold. Only when you add the factor of which team is stronger and more organized (the elements of the winning team, mind you), do you see which team is able to flaghold longer and better.

 

 

 

2) they are not random. I chose them especially for that line. I'm not stupid you know.

 

I never called you stupid. They just seemed excessive and obnoxious is all.

 

 

 

3) some people eh? so that's why my team was angry at the end of my last castlewars game. that game did have flagholders everywhere.

 

They were annoyed because they lost, not because flagholding exists. If your team had been flagholding, and you kicked the other teams [wagon] 10-1 because of it, everyone would be rejoicing. Flagholding isn't the problem there- your team's weakness is.

 

 

 

if both teams had held there flags. It would get a bit repetitive chasing them down. Don't you think? or is clicking constantly fun and never gets repetitive. :-k

 

Even the toughest flagholders go down if their opponents are anywhere near half-decent. If you guys can't work together properlly to take down an organized team, you wouldn't win anyways.

 

 

 

Oh, and don't even start about repetitive clicking. This is Runescape we're talking about.

 

 

 

p.s. 3) was sarcasm by the way. Just so you know this time. :wink:

 

Er, okay, thank you for informing me, I guess.

[timmyboy1234]

yes but if both teams hold thier flag then it comes to a stalemate, then BOTH teams will get bored. completely ruining the game.

 

 

 

 

 

no...if both teams are holding it can be relatively simple

 

 

 

1. find members of your own team and tell them to go kill the flag holder

 

2. lure the flag holder into their own base to safe it or kill them by collapsing the rocks

 

 

 

It is not boring but actually makes the game more exciting because if 1 flag holder messes up then it could be gameover

 

 

 

1) NO ONE EVER DOES THIS! you can ask them. But they'll never do it. Besides usually some of the opposing team is protecting the flag. Making an assault possible.

 

 

 

2) by luring you mean chasing right? it doesn't work. They just run in circles in and out of the tunnels. Near the island part. It's kindf of sad watching them.

 

 

 

3) uh huh, I've never seen 1 flag holder mess up before. besides. There are many other people protecting the flag with he holder him/herself. They'll just pick up the flag.

 

1) People usually do it. Maybe people just don't do it when you ask, because you probably ask them like this: "omgz, othr teem has falg. og get it u noob"

 

 

 

2)Chasing down flag holders and killing them isn't hard. Easiest way is to use magic to freeze them. If you don't use magic, then just keep on running after them, meeleing/ranging them. Also, if your smart, you can set cades in front of ladders so they can't go down, or in other places. Many ways to kill a flag holder.

 

 

 

3) You have never seen a flag holder mess up before...hmm. How many times have you played cw? 4? :shock: If there are other people protecting the flag holder, put on your armor, and use prayer. "They'll just pick up the flag". 2 words. Click faster.

 

 

 

Now, I may seem harsh may not have that many cw tickets, but I do know what i'm talking about.

[imaerehw14]

To Cheat: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

 

 

 

Fair: conforming with the established rules

 

 

 

(coming from marriam websters unabridged dictionary)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First, i must prove the resolution (topic) wrong, by using the word fair, which is found in the resolution it self. the definiton of "cheat" is to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud. now, we can go ahead and say the something valuable here is the ability to have fun while playing the game, or rather, being able to win. those two things are the most valuable things in this instance.

 

 

 

earlier, someone brought up the word "fair". what is fair? its conforming with the established rules. when playing castle wars, what are the rules? well obviously the only rules are no helms and no capes. anything after that and there really arent any rules. you can play with full ahrim's while barraging, or play with a bronze dagger (p). it doesnt matter, as long as you keep to the no helms and cape rules.

 

 

 

so when asking yourself, "is it cheating to retrieve your own flag, only after killing a person who tried to steal it from you?" obviously the answer is simple. this game is based on whatever happens, happens, so you better be prepared. if you arent prepared to get a flag (stock up on bandages, baricades, explosive potions, and teamates to help) then it isnt the fault of anyone else but yourself. likewise, it isnt the fault of the other team that you died in the caves below the castle and dropped the flag, and now they have the flag with 3 barrages around the flag holder.

 

 

 

if you arent prepared, and someone else is, at least play with some class and dont blame your own misfortune on the other team.

[Cloud9157]

To me, there is no such thing as cheating in cws. Holding your flag may seem unfair for the other team, but who was the fool who dropped it? Someone from the other team. People with the flag just have to becareful when running it back.

[trunksrs]

To Cheat: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

 

 

 

Fair: conforming with the established rules

 

 

 

 

These are only part of the Merriam-Webster definitions. I feel you got the wrong definition for cheat in this case

 

 

1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud

 

2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice

 

3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting

 

 

 

intransitive verb

 

1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly

 

2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on

 

3 : to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area

 

 

 

You listed a transitive definition, which would be used for a phrase like "cheating death". Since the original question was basically "Is it cheating to hold your team's flag?", cheating has no direct object, instead it has the prepositional phrase "to hold your team's flag".**

 

 

 

As for the intransitive definitions, the one that applies to this example is definition 1 (cheat at cards).

 

 

 

Now, my stance on this used to be that, it's not against the rules, so it's not cheating, only a matter of if it's fair. By definition 1b, this is the case. However, according to 1a, something that is unfair can be considered cheating. For example, I don't think it is against the actual rules in card games to look at another player's cards, or to rig the deck. However, these are still considered cheating, because you would be using fraud and trickery. So, if flag holding could be considered trickery, then yes, it is cheating.

 

 

 

I do still believe that it is not really cheating, but by definition, some could consider it to be.

 

 

 

As for if it is fair, the dictionary also says:

 

Fair:

 

....

 

6 a (1) : marked by impartiality and honesty (2): free from self-interest, prejudice, or favoritism b (1) : conforming with the established rules : ALLOWED (2) : consonant with merit or importance : DUE c : open to legitimate pursuit, attack, or ridicule .....

 

free from favor toward either or any side...

 

 

 

Therefore, if people do not consider flag holding to be impartial and honest, or free from favor toward either side, then it is not fair.

 

 

 

Again, since the game is impartial and equal, I would have to say it is fair, but is still debatable.

 

 

 

I just feel it is not in the spirit of the game. It seems somewhat unsportsman-like.

 

 

 

**I THINK this is right. I am in no way an expert in the rules of English Grammar. However, I did do a bit a research and am pretty sure I am correct in the meanings of transitive and intransitive verbs.

[timmyboy1234]

Why are you guys getting into these definitions of words and stuff lol? I think that most people know what "fair" and cheating" is. Everyone has their opinion of what is fair, and what cheating is in castle wars, but what I love about Jagex is that they arn't going to change flag holding. So complain all you want, but if Jagex thinks that this is fair and not cheating, then I'd say that it is fair and not cheating because castle wars was made by them, so they get to decide what is wrong and what isn't.

 

Hmm, now I think I explained that right... :anxious: