Flag holding in cw, Cheating or not?

[armadillo48]

IMO this isn't poor designing. It's an addition to the CTF style of games, in the game Geist, for example, if you capture a portal you can effectively claim the portal by standing on it and gunning anything that comes towards you. BUT this can be put aside by 2 player attacking the player from either side, easily killing him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same is with CW, admittedly it is hard to obtain the flag on your own but even with one other person it's possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CW is different to normal CTF games by making you work harder to obtain your flag if dropped. Considering how small a playing field the CW arena is, this IMO is a godsend (zamorak most likely). Getting to the flag is do-able in 30 seconds, and scoring will keep you busy for a limited amount of time. Flag holding adds variety and makes games closer and more interesting. If you are ahead 5 - 1 and the pther team gets your flag there is a chance for the gap to closen making the game much more tense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I enjoy knowing that not every game will be running back and forth to score and the chase of the flag is fun, be it underground or above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe it was a bug nor a design fault, i see it as tactic built into the game to further the CTF genre of games.

[swampjedi]

Can't say it's poor design. It's different, not poor. Say, a shooting game with a new "behind the shoulder" view ('Second' person, in Resident Evil 4). It's not the best way to see it IMO, but it's certainly new and different!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Holding your flag is part of the stratagy, and I honostly don't care if you should be allowed to hold your flag or not, if you don't like it, go get 94 magic. :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, that's your prerogative to think that way! Perhaps they designed it that way, but I do seriously doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for strategy, I don't see holding as a viable strategy. Viable, in this case, means that it has a weakness. Don't tell me that the fact that you can kill the holder is a real weakness. It's like mashing the god button if the right person gets the flag, and to me, that screams unbalanced.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could get 94 mage easily if I wanted, that's not the point.

[koddo1]

Here's two ways to compete against flag holding. I have won a lot of games without us holding the flag and without them holding the flag and the scores have been 10 - 9 11 - 9 whatever. People are acting as if flag holding is all there is to this game, and that's just ignorance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Don't let them hold the flag! This one is very simple. Go score, then go right back and when someone else tries to get the flag, follow them. If they die, pick up the damn flag and go score again. If you cannot do this, the other team is BETTER than you and that's just too bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Bring pots/mage and kill the flag holder. If they managed to get the flag, it is not really that hard to kill the person. Try to bring along some people along with you to help, especially someone with ancients. If you die, go right back and try again. If you cannot kill the person, the other team is BETTER than you and that's just too bad. With my bad melee stats, I have killed lots of 100+ level flag holders by myself because I am persistent in attacking and knowledgeable in how to keep attacking the flag holder even when they run around and stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but if they can keep the flag the other team is just plain better than you and if flag holding was not part of the game, they would win anyways. It makes me sad that this topic is even debated.

[Solidus_77]

Wow, you actually believe that. Your argument in general holds about as much weight as wet tissue paper. Jagex has more than once fixed major "bugs" months and months after they were originally released with no prior comment from them that it was even a bug. I don't doubt they could decide one day within the next year, "Oh by the way, the flag holding has been a bug since its release and we've fixed it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Putting critisizme aside, you are saying that the timeframe isn't important. That's true in many cases but usually they don't overlook a problem for this long, the only exception would be when people havn't noticed the problem much but that isn't the case for flag holding. There are plenty of rants from people and so I think we can assume that Jagexs knows that this is a much debated issue. For the moment, they have chosen to do nothing about it. If they do or do not change it in the futur is a different story, but only speculations can be done about that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This still doesn't change the fact that flagholding is, in no way, unfair. Different people might like or dislike this strategy but that's all a matter of opinion. As swampjedi said, this is different from other games, and for him this negates all other forms of strategy and people resort to just brute strengh. That's a valid opinion and it makes sence, the game is very different when someone holds the flag but personally I like this method better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For me flagholding encourages teamwork, because the flagholder is as good as dead if he is not surrounded by a good team and also shows the flaws of a disunited team where everyone just races for the flag. Also, the normal CW games can easily turn into a game where a few people are going for the flag, a few other stop them and everyone just fights random people. This is rather boring and yeilds unpretictable results as people just race for the flag over and over again. Flagholding has the person killing the person with the flag at the right time and then hopeing to get a friends to surround him as he becomes the primary target, also I much appreciate having the guarentee of getting tickets. This just shows that people have very different opinions about flagholding, there are obviously people who support it because it's a common strategy and there are also obviously people who are against it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People having different opinions makes sence, and those who dislike flagholding would logically wish it was removed but that does not justify it being a bug, or any form of cheating and gives no "unfair advantage" (it gives an advantage, but not unfairly). It is different from the classic CTF seen in many online games but if it is good or a bad thing is totally arbitrary

[armadillo48]

Don't let them hold the flag! This one is very simple. Go score, then go right back and when someone else tries to get the flag, follow them. If they die, pick up the damn flag and go score again. If you cannot do this, the other team is BETTER than you and that's just too bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is what i rely on in most games to prevent it, amd makes the most sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Koddos post makes the most sense out of everyones really, if they are able to hold it as a team then why can't you get it back as a team? If they can keep it and not allow you to get it then they are the better team.

[mr_nub_nub]

Amen Swamp Jedi!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, when you say, oh, in Tribes, or Giest, or other games, you say a strategy could take the holder down? Well think of this. Most of the people playing runescape would have truble opening the box to one of those games, let alone play it. And don't forget, that the chat is much easier to use, the control are better, ect. The thing is, unless jagex is gonna give you an algerbra quiz before you play cwars to let you in, this is gonna continue, and Jagex honestly should get rid of it.

[Puddlewater]

It is part of the game that jagex designed so no it isnt cheating but is sometimes unfair if the other time cant kill the flag holder i.e he is lvl 115 and the highest on the other team is 80 without anyone with ancients. Then again sometimes a lvl 50 and below on your team will get the flag and get owned. Then the other team gets the flag and that is fair because they should let the people that are higher lvl get the flag.

[Azzazeal]

Yes, it can be annoying I admit. But it adds extra challenge to castle wars its exiting to defent the flag bearer from the enemy. Also the enemy holding their own flag mak,es a certain level of tactics required and a need for teamwork in order to wrestle the flag from the enemy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plus, and im not flaming or questioning your motives. But im not sure if your team had your flag you start telling them to drop it or trying to make a high level player take it back to the castle even if they are more capable of defending than the castle and gaurds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In conclusion whilst it may be at times a questionable tactic is not illegal and should be kept that way.

[dargonhuman]

 

Wow, you actually believe that. Your argument in general holds about as much weight as wet tissue paper. Jagex has more than once fixed major "bugs" months and months after they were originally released with no prior comment from them that it was even a bug. I don't doubt they could decide one day within the next year, "Oh by the way, the flag holding has been a bug since its release and we've fixed it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Putting critisizme aside, you are saying that the timeframe isn't important. That's true in many cases but usually they don't overlook a problem for this long, the only exception would be when people havn't noticed the problem much but that isn't the case for flag holding. There are plenty of rants from people and so I think we can assume that Jagexs knows that this is a much debated issue. For the moment, they have chosen to do nothing about it. If they do or do not change it in the futur is a different story, but only speculations can be done about that.

 

 

 

In other news...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pets may no longer be taken into Pest Control or Castle Wars.

 

 

 

That just blew a hole the size of Ardgoune into that argument, you realize this. If it took Jagex this long to change that, then it means they could change anything, up to and including flag holding in cwars, it's just they haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

 

 

Like you said, though, we'll just have to wait and see what the future holds.

[koddo1]

It is part of the game that jagex designed so no it isnt cheating but is sometimes unfair if the other time cant kill the flag holder i.e he is lvl 115 and the highest on the other team is 80 without anyone with ancients. Then again sometimes a lvl 50 and below on your team will get the flag and get owned. Then the other team gets the flag and that is fair because they should let the people that are higher lvl get the flag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but this is such a terrible argument. Oh noes I'm level 80 I'm not allowed to beat a level 115 :( If he is level 115 and can get flag from you he is BETTER than you and deserves to win, and without flag holding he would win anyways. God forbid there be a game that favors higher levels.

[armadillo48]

 

It is part of the game that jagex designed so no it isnt cheating but is sometimes unfair if the other time cant kill the flag holder i.e he is lvl 115 and the highest on the other team is 80 without anyone with ancients. Then again sometimes a lvl 50 and below on your team will get the flag and get owned. Then the other team gets the flag and that is fair because they should let the people that are higher lvl get the flag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but this is such a terrible argument. Oh noes I'm level 80 I'm not allowed to beat a level 115 :( If he is level 115 and can get flag from you he is BETTER than you and deserves to win, and without flag holding he would win anyways. God forbid there be a game that favors higher levels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like koddo said, we "worked" our way too higher combats, we can reap the benefits.

[WolfhunterXZ]

In my opinion, it is a strategy. Simple enough. But, it's not a very fair strategy to employ. So, in a way, it's a cheap, low, hit below the belt type of strategy to easily win. CW was not designed to be played like that. A real strategy employs different things, but not holding ones own flag and guard it with like 10 level 100+'s so no one at all can get it, at that point, it's just out of greed for CW tickets and experience, which is not in the heart and honor of the game, which is to have fun and take a break from everyday training or wandering about Runescape.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So as I said, it's not cheating, but it is a very unfair strategy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Wolfy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. 700th post.

[Macmaster92]

Well its not really cheating. But it is one of those kinda things where its not cheating but just really annoying. The only way you can really stop the other team is if you go in there wih like 10 ancients ice barraging.

[cocacolabottle]

Cheating in my opinion, takes all the fun out of it.

[Nightgunner5]

 

 

 

Holding your own flag in cw is cheating because you've eliminated any chance for the opposing team to score. Just because one or two morons on their team screwed up, it doesn't mean the entire team has to suffer for that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Why do you think it is called a team?

 

 

 

In hockey, if the Goalie lets every shot by, who suffers? him or the whole team?

 

 

 

In Basketball, if someone loses the ball, and the other team scores teh winning point, who suffers?

 

 

 

What about if a bad Pitcher in Baseball?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well it is teh same in castlewars.

 

 

 

One goes down, they all go down.

 

 

 

It is completly fair

[mrmyk]

why is this still going on? the real answer has been posted so many times

[swampjedi]

Sure, a good team can kill a holder and his/her guards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But really people, do good teams exist? Even the lousiest basketball teams practice together all the time. A CW team is a bunch of pre-mature children thrown into a madhouse. If you can get them to work together, I've got a thousand year war in the Middle East for you to solve. I don't mean a hand-picked team, either. I mean random, "real world" CW teams.

[Soulfire21]

I would say it's poor sportsmanship and there's not much honor in it, but I wouldn't call it cheating. It tends to ruin the game for others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the thing about it is most players on the team who is not holding complain and groan about the other team holding, but if their team is the one holding, they are prefectly fine with it.

[koddo1]

Sure, a good team can kill a holder and his/her guards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But really people, do good teams exist? Even the lousiest basketball teams practice together all the time. A CW team is a bunch of pre-mature children thrown into a madhouse. If you can get them to work together, I've got a thousand year war in the Middle East for you to solve. I don't mean a hand-picked team, either. I mean random, "real world" CW teams.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dunno if you have like people issues or something, but it is usually rather easy for me, if they have their flag, to find 1 or 2 other 90+ on my team, tell them where the flag is, and we go and try to get it. And it is not that hard to get it, I promise you. It is a rare game where I cannot, by myself, kill the flag holder at least once. With bad melee stats. I think people are exaggerating how hard it is to kill the flag holder. "You cant do it unless you have like 10 barragers". It is just one person with limited amount of healing. Bandages do not heal that much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your argument seems to be based on a very limited amount of Castle Wars that you have played and you have obviously seen the worse side of the game. Certainly some games you can be stuck on a team where there is literally no one else who tries. However, I think if you played more, you would find that most teams have at least a few players who know what they're doing.

[mojo477]

 

That's a very selfish way of thinking "Hey it's not my fault, he was the one who was killed". You act as a team and when you don't protect the people going for the flag you are excercising bad teamwork, this will result in the whole team suffering.

 

 

 

ya exactly tell that to the people who do stupid things in castlewars the ones who dont do the team work so that means there can be other people who dont care about team work so it ruines the fun for the whole team :x

[Aresgodowar]

i feel that the game would be amazing if after you got the flag from the enemy's hands you had to return it to the castle in 2 mins. but when entering the castle you wouldnt loose the flag. then your team would have to defend you inside the castle to keep hold of the flag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and it doesnt take a team of 10 ice barrageers to get the flag. all it takes is 1 ancient with ice burst and blood burst. ice to freeze and blood to keep alive. when the flag starts running again ice it again and continue to own with blood burst.

[Zarfay]

its perfectly legitimate you shouldn't have got let them get the flag and if they get it just try your best to get it back my team has never been the team with the flag and its only now i realize some people might get annoyed with it i never was so why should any one else

[3_on_99]

XD you ppl have no idea how often i c this arguament :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

heres my ideas on it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you play castle wars enough you realise it is pretty hard to kill some1 running with the flag unless you have ancients of they have no bandages. ne1 low lvl would be killed before they can get the flag, thus eliminating the reason for some1 to say

 

 

 

"some stupid lvl 20 probobly" or something to that effect. a lvl 20 would never get near the flag (just an examples) i believe that getting the flag and holding it is perfectly fair, i find it very hard to kill a persong running with the flag. if you can kill them, y not take the flag

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

think of it this way

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

your in a war. the otehr team steals a nuke from you base (nuke is the flag) and you kill the person with the "nuke" you pick it up. you gonna protect it, right? not put it back out in the open were ne1 can get, wouldnt u. same thing applies

[Aresgodowar]

XD you ppl have no idea how often i c this arguament :wall:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

heres my ideas on it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you play castle wars enough you realise it is pretty hard to kill some1 running with the flag unless you have ancients of they have no bandages. ne1 low lvl would be killed before they can get the flag, thus eliminating the reason for some1 to say

 

 

 

"some stupid lvl 20 probobly" or something to that effect. a lvl 20 would never get near the flag (just an examples) i believe that getting the flag and holding it is perfectly fair, i find it very hard to kill a persong running with the flag. if you can kill them, y not take the flag

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

think of it this way

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

your in a war. the otehr team steals a nuke from you base (nuke is the flag) and you kill the person with the "nuke" you pick it up. you gonna protect it, right? not put it back out in the open were ne1 can get, wouldnt u. same thing applies

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

of course when we se a lev 20 trying to get the flag we let him get it and then kill him easily outside the castle. that is probly what happens 95% of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

how i know?? well thats how i get the flag most the time.

[Huta]

I personally don't rely on flagholding to win my games. A strong defence does that. I just use it when the opportunity arises. I have won MANY games with our flag sitting nicely in our base.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the games of CW I have played took place before I could barrage. I merely used entangle with melee, and it worked like a charm. I don't care your level, I don't care your stats, you're dead when a team gets to beat on you for 5+ entangles, even if I don't get you until we reach you at the top of your own castle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's fun. I like defending. Actually, I don't remember the last time I tried to score, although it probably would be idiotic with my defence. But the real action comes when the enemy team has the flag and you need to retrieve it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anybody can take down someone with the flag if they use their head. I've killed many well-defended flagholders with entangle and specs. Solo. It's all about tricking your opponants and using strategy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now that I can barrage (with mage pots until I can get myself to do 9k or so more alchs :x ) the action just gets even better. One game, a 120 in Karil got his flag and was holding with about 20 "minions" defending him. He was hiding on the stepping stones, so I barraged him there. His team turned on me, so I protected melee, and blooded his team. :XD: Only used a few of my bandages and owned almost his entire team. (with the help of a couple teamates that saw the action and came over.) So he crossed over to the other side of the river. I barraged him, crossed over, and got him down to about 30% health with no aids when time ran out. #-o Oh well. Best fight I've ever had in cw, and they were holding the flag. Boring? Not even close.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see, whatever advantages you have from flagholding the opposing team also has. It's not a win-all, it's not an unfair advantage, it's GAME. And if the other team happens to have 10 barragers protecting a flagholder, I doubt you would have scored even if the flag wa s sitting idly at their keep. It was a better team.