Flag holding in cw, Cheating or not?

[dargonhuman]

Okay, I'll allow that the second example isn't cheating, per se, as you are actively giving the other team a chance to get the flag (even if I think holding your own flag is still a form of bug abuse...) but only if you don't have an overwhelming number of people defending you; six or seven mid-levels, at most three high-levels and maybe one Ice Barrager would be a challenge to get through, but not impossible. Five Barragers, a dozen lvl 100+'s and twenty mid-levels is completely unfair, no matter how you look at it, especially when the holder camps right next to their own castle so their reinforcements can come back five seconds after dying while the other team has to run all the way back across the arena to try again.

[Huta]

It doesn't matter if its unfair. It's game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've been playing a LOT of cw lately, saving up for gold...the next game I play will be the 19th game of a win streak. No, I'm not going to tell my strategy (and it doesn't involve ancients), but I can say that my wins revolve around weak teamwork on the opposing team. Flags have been retrived that were guarded by as many as 4 barragers. It's entirely possible. If you can't, it's your team's fault, just like it was that you lost your flag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A loss is not because they held the flag, it's because we didn't play well. That's not cheating.

[mrmyk]

as you know from my guide i support flag holding. All the big cw clans do so of course its fine. If you don't like flag holders then dont let the opponents get the flag (unavoidable sometimes but you can try).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't whine :wink:

[anantipure]

I flag hold in castle wars all the time, with friends, and have alot of fun...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, so as to not totally crush the other team, every 5-10 minutes I return the flag to its base, to give the other team a chance to get it. However, if I manage to get the flag again, it's mine to hold for the rest of the game. First chance always, Second chance usually.... Who ever heard of a third chance?

[Mayjest]

Maybe it's because I was raised by Unreal Tournament instead of my parents, but as far as I'm concerned your flag should either be safe in your base or in your opponents hands. If someone from your team grabs your dropped flag, it goes back to your base.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But maybe I'm just used to playing a game that depends on your skill rather than how long you've trained you stats... that would possibly explain why I have a mere 8 castle wars tickets.

[mr_nub_nub]

It is a strategy, but most of the time, if you have a team that you dont know/stupid people, it ends up, they get flag, you leave. You won't beleive how many times I've quit because after like 10 minutes of asking around to do a huge charge and rush in, all I hear, "noob thats not how the game works1!1! r0fl blah blah blah", ect., and then the games over and pointless for me. The main reason people here are saying it is and isnt, the people saying it isnt play with a smart team of freinds, that not everybody has... and the people saying it is ( which in my eyes it is ), are saying that its unfair, which is true... think about it, in a war, who do you think is gonna win, the planners, or the people who rush in and splode everything? Think... For the most part, the people playing rs are the splode people, thinking their stats are gonna win for them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I hate when people intentionaly cheat, like the people hopping in one portal to make room in another, or the poeple who'll get your flag or theirs, and just die intentionally to give it to them. All the cwars games I've ever played have been just like this. either the hopping or the dying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, abot the strategy, maybe they should test you a bit before doing any minigame? Like in cwars, it says thats there 1 way to get to the flag available, what do you do? A. baracade B. nothing.... specally for every minigame Like in Barbarian assault, know how many stupid people keep making everyone lose? And I'm not talking wave 1, on the queen I mean, you know those people who never call, and they uassaly end up being 100+s cuz they didnt listen to the tutorial. you won't beileve how good this level 45 col was, level 4, always called, got me through it all (cept queen, but that was cuz i went in the arrow room by accident).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, enough about B assualt, and anyway, I think this is cheating.

[Danqazmlp]

For a lvl 59 i love youre points about cw. We Rarely hear the point of view of somebody who doesent really get a big chance to make an effect on thier own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, planning can win alot more than rushing. A well planned out defence can beat any rushers, and also well planned assault team can easily take back the flag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But it is VERY hard to find anybody who will help 'plan' to attack the flag in cw, as you stated, alot of the players don't really know what thier doing. I think as like barbarian assault there should be a tutorial that actually shows an enemy with thier flag and that you should kill it. Also i think the tutorial should be compulsary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How goo would it be to play on a team were EVERYBODY knows how to play as well as the next person.

[darkheie]

Honestly, no.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It IS giving an advantage, but it shouldn't be considered unfair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Both team have the ability to do so, but have different views on the act.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It does seem annoying, but what isn't these days?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would have to agree with some, there should at least be a time limit.

[armadillo48]

I'd be so bored in cw if it wasn't for flag holding. The monotony of running back and forth for scoring and killing flag takers is nicely broken up by chasing the flag or protecting your own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CW would be too tedious without it

[jjrox32]

It's low, it's dirty, it makes the game boringer. But as low as you may think it is, it's legal, and it helps you win. There are strategies that you need to use to effectively hold the flag. A level 99 mage with ahrims wouldn't last more than 5 minutes just running all over the map with the flag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't give a crap about how low and stupid people think it is. It's a strategy, it helps you win, it's legal, and it adds another layer of strategy to cw.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: If you want an unstoppable castle wars force, here's a squad for ya:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3-5 70+ rangers with Karils

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 ancient mages with ice barrage in Ahrims

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4-5 Warriors with various melee barrow armours

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That'd be SO hard to get together, but imagine the slaughter they'd cause? It'd be an easy 6 tickets an hour, if they used great strategy

[Huta]

It's low, it's dirty, it makes the game boringer. But as low as you may think it is, it's legal, and it helps you win. There are strategies that you need to use to effectively hold the flag. A level 99 mage with ahrims wouldn't last more than 5 minutes just running all over the map with the flag.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't give a crap about how low and stupid people think it is. It's a strategy, it helps you win, it's legal, and it adds another layer of strategy to cw.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: If you want an unstoppable castle wars force, here's a squad for ya:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3-5 70+ rangers with Karils

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 ancient mages with ice barrage in Ahrims

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4-5 Warriors with various melee barrow armours

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That'd be SO hard to get together, but imagine the slaughter they'd cause? It'd be an easy 6 tickets an hour, if they used great strategy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nitpick: You can't get 6 tickets an hour. 5 minutes between games. \

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The rangers in your plan could be bypassed. All you need is meleers in Ah/dhides. Have the barragers pin down any enemy mages, and trust me, the meleers will have fun. :thumbsup: And 2 barragers would hold down most attacks easily. If anything, you should have more meleers.

[mr_nub_nub]

I'm not just some 59, I've been playoing for about a year now, with having my original acc locked. I know more then most people will ever know about runescae, mostly because I'm so smart in real life :thumbsup: But i do think it is cheating, as it basicly ruined this whole minigame. I started out wanting to play cwars all my entire rs free playing time, then I turn member, BOOM, there goes a minigame due to unfair gameplay. At this rate, maybe they should just take out cwars or something.

[armadillo48]

I'm not just some 59, I've been playoing for about a year now, with having my original acc locked. I know more then most people will ever know about runescae, mostly because I'm so smart in real life :thumbsup: But i do think it is cheating, as it basicly ruined this whole minigame. I started out wanting to play cwars all my entire rs free playing time, then I turn member, BOOM, there goes a minigame due to unfair gameplay. At this rate, maybe they should just take out cwars or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Flag holding is the only thing preventin cw from becoming monotonous and prevents it just being a case of running back and forth attacking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If one team gets their flag it's not the end of the game. It's not as hard as everyone makes out to get it back, even on busy worlds.

[Riku3220]

 

I'm not just some 59, I've been playoing for about a year now, with having my original acc locked. I know more then most people will ever know about runescae, mostly because I'm so smart in real life :thumbsup: But i do think it is cheating, as it basicly ruined this whole minigame. I started out wanting to play cwars all my entire rs free playing time, then I turn member, BOOM, there goes a minigame due to unfair gameplay. At this rate, maybe they should just take out cwars or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Flag holding is the only thing preventin cw from becoming monotonous and prevents it just being a case of running back and forth attacking.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If one team gets their flag it's not the end of the game. It's not as hard as everyone makes out to get it back, even on busy worlds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

its monotonis(sp?) if you do the same thing over an over. i capture the flag a few times, then when i', bored i'll go over to sara's side and kill their door and have people rush in then i kill people that deserve to be killed O:)

[Riku3220]

IMO, it's not cheating, because both teams can and are allowed to do it. And they do do it. Do do do, do do do. Ignore the do's, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

kinda hard for both teams to do it if one team has a team of 80+(acienters) and the other consists mainly of 50-70(mainly people in addy who dont know how to play the game)

[dargonhuman]

Flag holding is the only thing preventin cw from becoming monotonous and prevents it just being a case of running back and forth attacking.

 

 

 

Wait, what? Since when is charging through the enemy lines, grabbing the flag, then running for your life and just barely getting back to your base with 2% HP left monotonous? Sounds pretty damn exciting to me.

 

 

 

You want to know what's monotonous? Standing around for fifteen minutes waiting for the match to end because you can't get past the ten Barragers guarding the other team's flag holder. Bor-ing.

[Shazarabbit]

You've got two options regarding this situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Option 1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As soon as the opposite team gets a hold of their flag it immediately goes back to the stand and than you have to go all the way back to the stand to retrieve it agian.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Option 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your opponent can hold it, and die and you can pick it straight up without having to go back to the stand to retrieve it again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the opposing team can hold it long enough to win the game than its pretty obvious that your team needs to go over their strategy.

[armadillo48]

 

Flag holding is the only thing preventin cw from becoming monotonous and prevents it just being a case of running back and forth attacking.

 

 

 

Wait, what? Since when is charging through the enemy lines, grabbing the flag, then running for your life and just barely getting back to your base with 2% HP left monotonous? Sounds pretty damn exciting to me.

 

 

 

You want to know what's monotonous? Standing around for fifteen minutes waiting for the match to end because you can't get past the ten Barragers guarding the other team's flag holder. Bor-ing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scoring is not that hard :-k Occasionaly i may have to cade but the general, run, grab flag, run, score, repeat is there. What makes it a challenge is the fact that you know if you die your gonna have to work hard to get it back, instead of just running to there base again and repeating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not surprised you can't get past 10 barragers but the odds of those kinds of teams happening are minimal and even then it's possible with 1 or 2 teammates; Karils, Steel Skin, Melee Protect and range/melee (if you can get to them) the flag holder. It's never impossible.

[Meister_Luck]

Flag holding is not cheating, but under the circumstances of Castle Wars, it is hard to counter, almost to the point of unfairness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once you've entered a portal, you're with unfamiliar people who have no strategies to execute. They rampage through the battlefield, with no particular goal except to capture or defend the flag. You don't just sit down with your teammates and have a discussion on what to do. Most of them will run out of the castle and kill whatever they see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The lack of organization just makes it difficult to formulate a plan to defeat the flag holder. You could lead your teammates to where the flag holder is, but without a proper army, you'll just get slaughtered one by one. This lack of communication is further reinforced by the time limit. Once a game is over, you're with new teammates with different personalities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Flag holders aren't exactly organized either. I'd imagine that once a person got their own team's flag, they'll run back to their castle for shelter. They'll pass the flag to the highest combat level person they can find, then they'll barricade the person near the castle. It's the obvious thing to do in Castle Wars. You don't need a team of highly organized experts to do this. You just need a few competent people around to help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Organization is rare in Castle Wars, unless you're in a clan. You can't really blame on the lack of organization of the losing side, because communication in Castle Wars is poor in the first place and the fact that you have to team up with strangers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Flag holding also works the other way. Just inform the other team that you'll be holding their flag, and they'll be invincible. You'll be safe on the other side and your teammates can't take the flag from you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Flag holding is essentially a double-edged sword. It is unfair for those who futilely tries to gather people to attack the flag holder. It is also unfair to those who fight with the fact that the enemy flag is being held by your own teammate. Flag holding only creates disproportionate advantages or stalemates. Sure, it's legal strategy, but is it fair to others?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see why flag holding should remain in the game.

[swampjedi]

Cleaned up a lot of "me too" and repetitive posts.

[Fatalhit_X]

In Castle Wars, the object is to take the enemy flag. If a newbie somehow slips into the enemy castle and picks up the flag, he usually get killed soon after. Its not the teams fault for his actions. Flag guarding is one of the cheapest tricks in CW, and it is exploiting a minor bug. And if you say, its not being abused, go play 5 CW games. In three of those games, there will be flag guarding. It's a fact, it's cheating, and it should be outlawed.

[Solidus_77]

In Castle Wars, the object is to take the enemy flag. If a newbie somehow slips into the enemy castle and picks up the flag, he usually get killed soon after. Its not the teams fault for his actions. Flag guarding is one of the cheapest tricks in CW, and it is exploiting a minor bug. And if you say, its not being abused, go play 5 CW games. In three of those games, there will be flag guarding. It's a fact, it's cheating, and it should be outlawed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not a bug, it's a strategy. If it was a bug it would have long since been removed. If you so strongly believe it is a bug, then report them for bug abuse and notice that nothing will happen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not everything is fair, if two players face off, the one with the highest combat is likely to win both players are not given an equal 50:50 chance at winning. In cw this is no exception, the team with the least noobs which run for the flag will win. It's unfair to the weaker team but that's just logic. If two teams each have idiots on them who race for the flags and both teams have ancient mages then both teams will hold their flag and the battle will end in a draw. Where is the unfair advantage in this case?

[the_tallest1]

It's not a bug, it's a strategy. If it was a bug it would have long since been removed. If you so strongly believe it is a bug, then report them for bug abuse and notice that nothing will happen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, you actually believe that. Your argument in general holds about as much weight as wet tissue paper. Jagex has more than once fixed major "bugs" months and months after they were originally released with no prior comment from them that it was even a bug. I don't doubt they could decide one day within the next year, "Oh by the way, the flag holding has been a bug since its release and we've fixed it."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Flag holding is the number one reason why I will not play Cws. It made me hate the game. No, I'm not some whiny kid who thinks he should win all the time nor am I unable to plan a strategy. The simple fact is a capture the flag game does NOT involve holding your flag indefinitely. Some of you said that flag holding is the only thing keeping Cws alive. Have any of you actually considered it crippled it to start? I know so many people who refuse to play it for this very reason. I've left more games when my team was winning due to flag holding than when we were losing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a part of the Knowledge Database Cws guide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Castle Wars is a combat-based team game. The standards are flags - one on the top of each castle. Once the standard has been captured the winning team receives a point and the standards are replaced. The teams continue to steal each other's standard until the time runs out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are two teams: the Zamorakians and the Saradominists. Both teams try to infiltrate each others' castles, capture each other's standards, and take them back through enemy lines to their own base to claim a victory point for their chosen deity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jagex obviously meant this to be a CTF style game and not the current abomination it is. How obtuse do you have to be not to see that just because it hasn't been changed that it won't be changed and called a bug? They do have the history of this as I mentioned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bottom line, it's not cheating in the sense that Jagex should take action against you but it certainly is cheating in the true sense of what CTF really is. At this point I couldn't care less if Jagex napalmed Cws off the map so long as they leave the bank chest intact. That is the only saving grace left of that complete waste of world map space.

[swampjedi]

I have played a lot of CTF games, and I've never seen one that allows you to hold your own flag. This tells me Jagex is guilty of poor design, and that those who take advantage of this poor design are not cheating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I think that holding destroys all other chances at strategy. If your only option it to immediately go with the nuclear option, that's no fun in my book. I've played bad fighting games like this, where you could settle into a series of moves/blocks that would stalemate the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thing is, you almost have to hold your own flag, since if the other team holds theirs you're going to be slaughtered. It only works if neither team holds, which isn't going to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the end, it comes down to poor design by Jagex. I just expect that it's on their list of things to fix. Abuse it while you can!

[hellbellz]

I have played a lot of CTF games, and I've never seen one that allows you to hold your own flag. This tells me Jagex is guilty of poor design, and that those who take advantage of this poor design are not cheating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, I think that holding destroys all other chances at strategy. If your only option it to immediately go with the nuclear option, that's no fun in my book. I've played bad fighting games like this, where you could settle into a series of moves/blocks that would stalemate the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thing is, you almost have to hold your own flag, since if the other team holds theirs you're going to be slaughtered. It only works if neither team holds, which isn't going to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the end, it comes down to poor design by Jagex. I just expect that it's on their list of things to fix. Abuse it while you can!

Can't say it's poor design. It's different, not poor. Say, a shooting game with a new "behind the shoulder" view ('Second' person, in Resident Evil 4). It's not the best way to see it IMO, but it's certainly new and different!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Holding your flag is part of the stratagy, and I honostly don't care if you should be allowed to hold your flag or not, if you don't like it, go get 94 magic. :