Flag holding in cw, Cheating or not?

[Father_Time89]

It's just like cheating realy...........

 

 

 

I meen if we can't score might as well quit now because we can't score.

 

 

 

If you guys get ahold of the flag it's pretty much over and if you got anceints it's 99% over

 

 

 

It also ruins the game for the lower lvls they go to be proud and strong and die and lose flag and whole team kills them.

 

 

 

1) Pessimistic attitude.

 

 

 

 

And that makes him wrong how?

 

 

 

 

2) It isn't over, the flag can change hands constantly. Ancients are overrated loads in CW, they don't win a game mostly as quite a lot of ancients i've seen are terrible.

 

 

 

 

So you assume therefore that EVERY ancient is terrible? What a dumb thing to assume. Also I don't know what you're playing because the ancient mages I encounter are great.

 

 

 

 

3) From what i have it is rare that a low level gets the flag unless the opposition is organised and makes sure they don't get killed and well..if your against a team that organised then you would lose anyway :P. Never, ever seen a whole team kill one person.

 

 

 

When he said the whole team he was exaggerating, also it's not rare for a low level to grab the flag run out of the castle then be killed. That's how most flag holding starts.

[Rebdragon]

Flag-holding takes strategy out of the game.

It doesn't take strategy out of the game. In fact, it gives the game the only doses of strategy it ever seems to get.

 

 

 

Want to know what games would be like without the repurcussions of losing the flag? Every moron, their brother, and their mom would be mindlessly rushing at the flag and rushing out of the castle without even thinking about how to get back or worrying about dying. Then everyone else would spend the whole game either standing at their castle defending, chasing after some flagrunner, or standing next to the other teams flagpole waiting for the flag to appear after the last moron died and the flag was instantly transported there. That's not strategy. That's mindless clicking.

 

Because of this, about the only deciding factor on who's going to win a game is how many high levels happen to be on each team.

 

Wow, it's a combat based game, and the team with the higher levels wins! It's the apocolypse!!!!! :o :uhh:

 

 

 

Seriously, what makes you think the higher level team wouldn't always win if there was no flagholding? They'd have the stronger defenses. They'd have the stronger attackers. It's a combat-based game, so stop whining and go cry in a corner.

 

 

 

It's not much more than luck it seems.

 

Ah yes, systematically organizing a team to take down a flagrunner has nothing to do with skill or organization whatsoever.

 

 

 

It's not a one-man job. Never has been, never will be.

 

 

 

You can't really do much to help your team unless you're a fairly high level player.

 

Though there are things you can do, there's no point in arguing against the fact that this is a combat-based mini-game, and thus the higher-level players are the more valuable, more useful players.

[Father_Time89]

Flag-holding takes strategy out of the game.

It doesn't take strategy out of the game. In fact, it gives the game the only doses of strategy it ever seems to get.

 

 

 

Want to know what games would be like without the repurcussions of losing the flag? Every moron, their brother, and their mom would be mindlessly rushing at the flag and rushing out of the castle without even thinking about how to get back or worrying about dying.

 

 

 

They do that even with flag-holding, which is why they get the flags 85% of the time.

 

 

 

 

Then everyone else would spend the whole game either standing at their castle defending, chasing after some flagrunner, or standing next to the other teams flagpole waiting for the flag to appear after the last moron died and the flag was instantly transported there. That's not strategy. That's mindless clicking.

 

 

 

Riiiiight because we all know flag-holding is the single only thing seperating castle wars from complete chaos. I've played lots of games where no one flag holds and it is not what you describe at all. To say that flag-holding is the only strategy in the game is dumb.

 

 

 

Because of this, about the only deciding factor on who's going to win a game is how many high levels happen to be on each team.

 

Wow, it's a combat based game, and the team with the higher levels wins! It's the apocolypse!!!!! :o :uhh:

 

 

 

Seriously, what makes you think the higher level team wouldn't always win if there was no flagholding? They'd have the stronger defenses. They'd have the stronger attackers. It's a combat-based game, so stop whining and go cry in a corner.

 

 

 

Make up your mind is it strategy or is it combat, because if it's nothing but combat we might as well turn it into the fight caves (or maybe it was pits). Oh and if they have higher combat levels but a very bad strategy they would lose if there was no flag-holding.

 

 

 

It's not much more than luck it seems.

 

Ah yes, systematically organizing a team to take down a flagrunner has nothing to do with skill or organization whatsoever.

 

 

 

It's not a one-man job. Never has been, never will be.

 

 

 

 

How mis-informed can you possibly get? It's very easy to take down the flag-runner if it happens to be a low level who stupidly thought he could just grab the flag and run. One man with ancients can easily take down a low level flag-runner. It doesn't require organisation or strategy, you're just lucky that the moron who tried to take the flag single-handedly happened to be on their team. If he/she was on your team they would've done THE EXACT SAME THING. and the other team would be flag-holding right now (or maybe they'd have a shred of respect and return it to the base)

[Rebdragon]

First, before you respond, I'd just like to know what you are arguing so we can have a proper debate. I'm pretty sure we've established that flag holding in fact is not cheating, so what position are you arguing? That it takes the fun out of the game? What? Just wondering.

 

They do that even with flag-holding, which is why they get the flags 85% of the time.

 

Yes, and with mistakes come consequences. A part of the team made the mistake. The team is a unit. They must live with the mistake and recover from it, instead of piggybacking off a "No flagholding rule" handicap.

 

 

 

Riiiiight because we all know flag-holding is the single only thing seperating castle wars from complete chaos. I've played lots of games where no one flag holds and it is not what you describe at all. To say that flag-holding is the only strategy in the game is dumb.

 

Yes there are many great single player strategies (or there wouldn't be a difference between an expert flagrunner and a moron), but flagholding is probably the only major team strategy in Castle Wars, apart from "everyone in the castle and kill everything that moves".

 

 

 

Make up your mind is it strategy or is it combat, because if it's nothing but combat we might as well turn it into the fight caves (or maybe it was pits). Oh and if they have higher combat levels but a very bad strategy they would lose if there was no flag-holding.

 

It is both. Combat makes up for lack of strategy, strategy makes up for lack of combat. But once you get to a certain low point in either element, the other element (whether it be combat or strategy) cannot balance it out to make the player useful. Generally though, high levels are well seasoned, older, capable, and more intelligient than lower levels, so their high combat level merely serves to further enhance their ability to use their strategic tactics.

 

 

 

There's a very small minority of high levels who are too stupid not to understand Castle Wars enough to make themselves hold little value for their team.

 

 

 

Grab flag. Kill other color people. Click. Kill people more. Runescape is just a fairly mindless game overall, oh well.

 

How mis-informed can you possibly get? It's very easy to take down the flag-runner if it happens to be a low level who stupidly thought he could just grab the flag and run. One man with ancients can easily take down a low level flag-runner. It doesn't require organisation or strategy, you're just lucky that the moron who tried to take the flag single-handedly happened to be on their team. If he/she was on your team they would've done THE EXACT SAME THING. and the other team would be flag-holding right now (or maybe they'd have a shred of respect and return it to the base)

 

Point? A part of your unit messed up. Because of that, your team had to deal with the problem of a flag holder, which isn't too hard to overcome with a little strategy and some tough players, or just a sword and a mouse if the other team/flag holder isn't smart. Honestly, what are you arguing? That it's unfair that even though you killed 100 people that game, your team lost? What? It's not cheating, so what do you think the problem is?

[walka92]

i dont think its cheating

 

 

 

 

 

tbh i do it every chance i get

 

 

 

 

 

in the full worlds theres so many people you run out of bandages so fast, you gotta let other ppl heal you. also you can take damage so fast you died before you can heal

 

 

 

 

 

i think its fair. everyone does it

[mrmyk]

It's just like cheating realy...........

 

 

 

I meen if we can't score might as well quit now because we can't score.

 

 

 

If you guys get ahold of the flag it's pretty much over and if you got anceints it's 99% over

 

 

 

It also ruins the game for the lower lvls they go to be proud and strong and die and lose flag and whole team kills them.

 

 

 

1) Pessimistic attitude.

 

 

 

 

And that makes him wrong how?

 

 

 

 

2) It isn't over, the flag can change hands constantly. Ancients are overrated loads in CW, they don't win a game mostly as quite a lot of ancients i've seen are terrible.

 

 

 

 

So you assume therefore that EVERY ancient is terrible? What a dumb thing to assume. Also I don't know what you're playing because the ancient mages I encounter are great.

 

 

 

 

3) From what i have it is rare that a low level gets the flag unless the opposition is organised and makes sure they don't get killed and well..if your against a team that organised then you would lose anyway :P. Never, ever seen a whole team kill one person.

 

 

 

When he said the whole team he was exaggerating, also it's not rare for a low level to grab the flag run out of the castle then be killed. That's how most flag holding starts.

 

 

 

1) People with attitudes only look at the negatives, not the positives. People don't remember they have an equal chance to flag hold at the beginning of every game.

 

2) I never once said every ancient is terrible so your point was complete rubbish. Sure there is a few very good ancients but to be honest, the majority are total rubbish in crucial times for the game.

 

3) Well it seems most people are exaggerating in this debate, sure a lot of time a low level grabs the flag and runs out of the castle to his death but really, why didn't you get to the flag before him to prevent it? In some cases even very high levels die and the flag becomes lost, would you blame them for losing it? It isn't just low levels that lose it.

[Danqazmlp]

Alot of people are saying once one team gets thier flag, the games over, well, im a walking example that thats wrong.

 

 

 

Many flagholders, (not me ofcourse :-w )may even be looking at the tif and get killed while holding the flag.

[mrmyk]

Alot of people are saying once one team gets thier flag, the games over, well, im a walking example that thats wrong.

 

 

 

Many flagholders, (not me ofcourse :-w )may even be looking at the tif and get killed while holding the flag.

 

 

 

oh wait..that did happen to you today! :wink:

[kdb148]

It's definitely not cheating. Cheating means doing something outside the rules - Jagex has known about this strategy and continued to permit it. It is fully within the rules of the game. Remember, it's Jagex's game, and they set the rules. The only possible way to cheat in Runescape is to abuse a bug, but flag-holding is clearly not a bug as it has been allowed for years. So I think it's completely wrong to call it cheating.

 

 

 

However, I also think it takes a lot of the fun out of castle wars, and arguments that "Well, you just have to use teamwork to get it back!" ring hollow, because I have no way to communicate with the rest of my team. Sure, I can add them and chat privately, or run through my castle yelling, but nobody is going to pay any attention to that, and it only reaches a small fraction of my teammates. The game currently has no function that allows communication among an entire team, meaning that there is no way to properly organize a mass assault to take back a flag that a team is holding.

 

 

 

So, I would love it if Jagex put in a 2 minute time limit on a team holding their own flag, or institute either a way to communicate with your whole team. Another good way to handle it would be to set a timer on holding the flag, but instead of putting it back in its castle, a message pops up on the screen of every person on the other team, telling them that the other team is holding their own flag, AND where that person is located. I mean, how cool would it be to have both teams clash in a huge war out in the open to take back a flag that is being held? That would really add an extra element of fun to castle wars.

[Danqazmlp]

 

 

 

So, I would love it if Jagex put in a 2 minute time limit on a team holding their own flag, or institute either a way to communicate with your whole team. Another good way to handle it would be to set a timer on holding the flag, but instead of putting it back in its castle, a message pops up on the screen of every person on the other team, telling them that the other team is holding their own flag, AND where that person is located. I mean, how cool would it be to have both teams clash in a huge war out in the open to take back a flag that is being held? That would really add an extra element of fun to castle wars.

 

 

 

 

 

That second point would indeed be a great help.

 

The thing that makes getting the flag back is usually large ammounts of enemy on you at once, but if the whole team, especially alot of the lower levels appeared, it could cause chaos, take the heat off the people doing the main damage to the flag, and be a great help.

[Ickle]

Well I agree that a massage should come up saying that that the flag is being held, and where it is located. I don't really agree with having to "earn" flag holding though.

[highlanders]

I'm surprised so many people consider it cheating.

 

 

 

For me it's just part of the game. Just running at the other castle picking up the flag then bringing it back etc, it's just boring and monotonous. When you can pick up your own flag then go sneakily hide it adds a twist :) And well, if it makes the other team lose, so what? The cwars rewards are so ugly, I doubt a lot of people are saving up tickets for them, so we just play for fun, so why even care about this kind of thing?

[Runey1676]

I think it's fair, but maybe having a high level hold it while being guarded by other higher levels is kind of cheating it's still strategy

[mrmyk]

I think it's fair, but maybe having a high level hold it while being guarded by other higher levels is kind of cheating it's still strategy

 

 

 

well yeah it does blow when that happens :wall: BUT..

 

If you have high levels yourself, try to organise them and well..if they aren't organised and don't try then ya deserve to lose:P

 

If you have low levels and the other team is clearly better than yours well...unlucky

[Ginger_Warrior]

One of the key problems with CW is the randomness of the levels. I can't really think of how Jagex could control the levels of the players entering the game without disturbing the number of players in each team, but to deny that problem would be foolish.

 

 

 

Flag holding only makes this problem worse. I don't consider flag holding to be cheating - after all it's not against any rules - but it does make a rather big mountain out of a molehole. Simply because, if the truth be told, too many CW teams use this tactic:

 

 

 

• ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãââ Kill any high (80+) player that comes
   
  ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãââ Allow the first 'noob' through
   
  ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãââ Ancient him outside
   
  ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãââ Take the flag, defend with five ancients
   
  ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãââ Game over

 

 

 

It's clear this problem wouldn't exist if there were equal amounts of experienced (note I didn't use the words 'high level' there) players on both sides, or at least if it did, the probability of it happening would be the same for both sides.

 

 

 

In my opinion, while flag holding isn't cheating, it does take advantage of an unbalanced system, and action needs to be taken to make it even for both sides. Maybe you could reduce the powers of ancients using the new CW bracelet, for example, you can't be frozen while holding the enemies' flag? That way, at least if you gain the flag, you'd have done so through strategy and hard work as opposed to the rather simplistic and boring method mentioned before.

[mrmyk]

^^

 

 

 

Sure it would be nice but really...this game is about fun and if you couldn't play with your friends it can't be that fun :(

 

 

 

BUT..the scenario you listed is also false and is an extremist version of what can happen. Killing someone over 120 combat is possible in CW and they can lose it too, many people think that only low levels can lose it which is completely stupid.

[Ginger_Warrior]

^^

 

 

 

Sure it would be nice but really...this game is about fun and if you couldn't play with your friends it can't be that fun :(

 

 

 

BUT..the scenario you listed is also false and is an extremist version of what can happen. Killing someone over 120 combat is possible in CW and they can lose it too, many people think that only low levels can lose it which is completely stupid.

 

 

 

You've taken that argument too far to the other extreme. You've implied that a Level 120 has an equal chance of losing the flag as a low level, which is just a stupid thing to say really for obvious reasons. Also, bare in mind a low level (in general) will have a lower understanding and experience of the game than a high level, so is easily more prone to making mistakes such as taking the flag in a difficult situation and getting killed outside. Flag holding is a factor which expands the gap between high levels and low levels in CW, when really we oughta close that gap down.

 

 

 

Also, you play with your friends on either side... sometimes it's fun to face against your players. They know your strategies and your style of play - it makes for an interesting game. My personal strategy is to cade, but when my friend is on the other side, he always keeps me on my feet by bringing explosives. I can't understand how I've said you can't play with your friends. Besides, the current system doesn't guarentee you'd play on the same side anyway. In addition, I have loads of fun playing CW without my friends... it's a contest at the end of the day, and that's why people like it. If I wanted to face my friends in a duel, I'd go to the Duel Arena, or go to my house with my dungeon. In fact, when people say "1vs1, we're mates" in CW, I ignore them and attack my foe anyway. They're not there to have a personal duel, they're there to play a game of CW!

[i_trollz_u]

since both sides can do it, its technically not cheating.

[mrmyk]

^^

 

 

 

Sure it would be nice but really...this game is about fun and if you couldn't play with your friends it can't be that fun :(

 

 

 

BUT..the scenario you listed is also false and is an extremist version of what can happen. Killing someone over 120 combat is possible in CW and they can lose it too, many people think that only low levels can lose it which is completely stupid.

 

 

 

You've taken that argument too far to the other extreme. You've implied that a Level 120 has an equal chance of losing the flag as a low level, which is just a stupid thing to say really for obvious reasons. Also, bare in mind a low level (in general) will have a lower understanding and experience of the game than a high level, so is easily more prone to making mistakes such as taking the flag in a difficult situation and getting killed outside. Flag holding is a factor which expands the gap between high levels and low levels in CW, when really we oughta close that gap down.

 

 

 

Also, you play with your friends on either side... sometimes it's fun to face against your players. They know your strategies and your style of play - it makes for an interesting game. My personal strategy is to cade, but when my friend is on the other side, he always keeps me on my feet by bringing explosives. I can't understand how I've said you can't play with your friends. Besides, the current system doesn't guarentee you'd play on the same side anyway. In addition, I have loads of fun playing CW without my friends... it's a contest at the end of the day, and that's why people like it. If I wanted to face my friends in a duel, I'd go to the Duel Arena, or go to my house with my dungeon. In fact, when people say "1vs1, we're mates" in CW, I ignore them and attack my foe anyway. They're not there to have a personal duel, they're there to play a game of CW!

 

 

 

Although it is true a high level has a much greater chance of dying with the flag it is a chance nonetheless..they just fall after a bit longer :P

 

Sure your points on playing against friends are true mostly people go to CW to play with their friends not against them.

 

 

 

P:S Don't think much of your tactics which i just saw you use in a game..was trying to go underground so my friend could give me our flag to hold but you caded exactly where i wanted to go which kinda wasted time

[Ginger_Warrior]

Although it is true a high level has a much greater chance of dying with the flag it is a chance nonetheless..they just fall after a bit longer :P

 

Sure your points on playing against friends are true mostly people go to CW to play with their friends not against them.

 

 

 

P:S Don't think much of your tactics which i just saw you use in a game..was trying to go underground so my friend could give me our flag to hold but you caded exactly where i wanted to go which kinda wasted time

 

 

 

Well... that game was over as soon as we got the flag to be fair. Besides, the ancient that froze the flag holder was out of position when the flag-holder came down. My cades bought him enough time. That's not my usual tactics that you saw.

[Sam]

It just ruins the fun for people who want to play the minigame properly.

[mrmyk]

It just ruins the fun for people who want to play the minigame properly.

 

 

 

although it is actually used by people who want to play the game properly..contradicting yourself

[eias]

It isn't cheating since this is team's tactics and strategies and this way will make it harder for the other team to take the flag,you can do anything on cwars to win

[T. Skill]

Flag holding is a legit way to play Castle Wars. I don't understand how it could be cheating, due to the fact that it's completely within the barriers of Jagex' rules and it's not abusing any bugs(which would have been fixed by now). Flag holding is just another strategy that can be used in the game of Castle Wars.

 

 

 

It takes awhile to get good at flag holding so not just anyone can go out and do it more than half of the time. It, like any other thing, takes practice. If someone has done it a lot and gotten good at it why should you take it away from them by claiming that it's cheating when it isn't? Most of the people who are claiming rule breaking are the ones who have not yet discovered for themselves the art of flag holding in Castle Wars and would rather complain about it then try it themselves.

 

 

 

Some people claim that it's unfair. Tough, a lot of things in Runescape are unfair. But I, like many others have learned to play and adapt to it. Rather than complaining about flag holding, I learned as much as I could about it to prevent it in a game, while at the same time helping my own team to hold the flag. If flag holding really bothers you that much then simply just don't play the game. It's a strategy encompassed in a mini-game that a lot of people enjoy and for the most part they have accepted the strategy. The people who can't accept the strategy either don't play, complain or like myself, adapted to it. IMO those are really the only three choices available to you.

[Soulsniper64]

Unless jagex says otherwise, it's ok.

 

 

 

I just hate it when theres a guy in full mith that goes for the flag and dies before he even gets out of the castle -.- .