UEFA Champions League/Cup - Euro 2008 - Leagues & Cups

[biox]

I think Naka would step up massively in the EPL - just look at how much different of a player he was before he went to Scotland.

 

 

 

As much as it pains me to say it, as a Celtic fan, it would be great to see him take another step up into the Premier League.

[raz]

Naka, as skillfull as he is, is too slow and too weak for the EPL.

 

Too weak? In what way? The Scottish game is about as physical as you can get, unfortunetly.

 

 

 

People said the same about Larsson, that he wouldn't have been able to handle the EPL. He went on to prove that wrong when he was nearing the end of his career.

 

 

 

The doubters over Larsson were fools, that has to be said. But thereason why Naka flourishes in Scotland and Europe is, while teams are physically strong, they don't press anywhere near as much as the EPL - harrying, closing down. The pace is rapid, so the force of contact becomes greater. Standing toe to toe, Naka must be strong, as you pointed out playing in Scotland. But holding off at pace, dribbling etc. is a different matter.

 

 

 

Given the time and space, Naka would do great anywhere. His speed of thought is excellent, however, I highly doubt whether he'd be allowed that space in England.

 

 

 

surely that means that 26 mill torres lmfao haha, is going to be the same?

[Bubsa]

^ Exactly what arguement are you trying to make? Torress has pace, power, a great touch and a great footballing mind. He's a completely different level to Naka, as is La Liga.

 

 

 

Torres is a proven international talent and his price is an indicator of the going for young talent nowadays. Tottenham paid ~25mill for Gareth Bale and Darren Bent, 2 young but relatively unproven players (Bent I can see flourishing, Bale..not so much). Man Yoo paid ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã30mill in total for Nani and Anderson, both exciting talents in their league, but there's a big risk coming to England now and they might notlive up to their potential. Take into account 20millon a holding midfielder in Owen Hargreaves and Torres looks quite cheap at that money.

 

 

 

So, again, what exactly are you getting at?

[raz]

^ Exactly what arguement are you trying to make? Torress has pace, power, a great touch and a great footballing mind. He's a completely different level to Naka, as is La Liga.

 

 

 

Torres is a proven international talent and his price is an indicator of the going for young talent nowadays. Tottenham paid ~25mill for Gareth Bale and Darren Bent, 2 young but relatively unproven players (Bent I can see flourishing, Bale..not so much). Man Yoo paid ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã30mill in total for Nani and Anderson, both exciting talents in their league, but there's a big risk coming to England now and they might notlive up to their potential. Take into account 20millon a holding midfielder in Owen Hargreaves and Torres looks quite cheap at that money.

 

 

 

So, again, what exactly are you getting at?

 

 

 

lmao torres scores what about 12 goals this season? in a league where the defence isn't exactly top notch? pace power? 12 goals proves that lolol, your type of play doesnt even suit him lolol.

 

 

 

26.5 million on player who has never played in champs league? hargreaves for 20 million is an absoulutely great deal, had experience at the very top, 10 years in germany, numerous home titles, dam he's even won the champions league and also englands best player at the world cup, and your comparing hargreaves price to torres and saying torres price is a steal? are you drunk?

 

 

 

wow 26 million for a kid never played in champs league, scores about 12 league goals a season, and dont give me that crap about his team not being good enough. Just look at Morientes, i bet he had pace and power?

 

 

 

Lets see how he likes it on a wicket raining cold day on a wednesday night : )

 

 

 

Face it you've grossly overpaid for a player who is widely unproven.

 

 

 

also do you even watch la liga? i do i can tell you he aint worth 26.5 million

 

 

 

One more thing, please dont get me wrong, im not saying he is crap, im just stating he aint worth 26.5 million no way. Pressure for a young kid like him coming over here. Knowing the club has forked out so much, might be a bit too much for him :)

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway liverpool aint going to win the prem, man utd? :P

[angryjoe]

[hide]

^ Exactly what arguement are you trying to make? Torress has pace, power, a great touch and a great footballing mind. He's a completely different level to Naka, as is La Liga.

 

 

 

Torres is a proven international talent and his price is an indicator of the going for young talent nowadays. Tottenham paid ~25mill for Gareth Bale and Darren Bent, 2 young but relatively unproven players (Bent I can see flourishing, Bale..not so much). Man Yoo paid ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã30mill in total for Nani and Anderson, both exciting talents in their league, but there's a big risk coming to England now and they might notlive up to their potential. Take into account 20millon a holding midfielder in Owen Hargreaves and Torres looks quite cheap at that money.

 

 

 

So, again, what exactly are you getting at?

 

 

 

lmao torres scores what about 12 goals this season? in a league where the defence isn't exactly top notch? pace power? 12 goals proves that lolol, your type of play doesnt even suit him lolol.

 

 

 

26.5 million on player who has never played in champs league? hargreaves for 20 million is an absoulutely great deal, had experience at the very top, 10 years in germany, numerous home titles, dam he's even won the champions league and also englands best player at the world cup, and your comparing hargreaves price to torres and saying torres price is a steal? are you drunk?

 

 

 

wow 26 million for a kid never played in champs league, scores about 12 league goals a season, and dont give me that crap about his team not being good enough. Just look at Morientes, i bet he had pace and power?

 

 

 

Lets see how he likes it on a wicket raining cold day on a wednesday night : )

 

 

 

Face it you've grossly overpaid for a player who is widely unproven.

 

 

 

also do you even watch la liga? i do i can tell you he aint worth 26.5 million

 

 

 

One more thing, please dont get me wrong, im not saying he is crap, im just stating he aint worth 26.5 million no way. Pressure for a young kid like him coming over here. Knowing the club has forked out so much, might be a bit too much for him :)

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway liverpool aint going to win the prem, man utd? :P

[/hide]

 

Fair points about Hargreves and Torres, however you failed to mention the risks that Man Ure have take with Nani and Anderson, Nani doesn't have anywhere near as much pace as Ronaldo, and both of them are unproven on the International stage, where Torres is.

 

 

 

Most players are overpriced now anyway, or the prices are just increasing. Just look at Tottenham's two buys, and Reo-Coker, ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã8million? Get out of here.

 

 

 

As for the title, can't see past Chelski or ManUre so ill have to say Chelsea, hopefully they sell Lampard, Sidwell will do a job for them :)

 

 

 

On a bad not, Inland Revenue is onto Leeds :-w

[Bubsa]

lmao torres scores what about 12 goals this season? in a league where the defence isn't exactly top notch? pace power? 12 goals proves that lolol, your type of play doesnt even suit him lolol.

 

14 goals in a struggling team - not too bad. Not worth responding to the other comment, ignorance is bliss for you, isn't it?

 

 

 

hargreaves for 20 million is an absoulutely great deal, had experience at the very top, 10 years in germany, numerous home titles, dam he's even won the champions league and also englands best player at the world cup, and your comparing hargreaves price to torres and saying torres price is a steal? are you drunk?

 

Well done for completely missing the point there. Never did I doubt Hargreaves' quality. The only thing I'll say is that, until 2 years ago, the German league was about as competitive as Scotland or France. However, a Champs League medal can't be argued with. The correlation to the price is simple: Strikers have always cost more money - sometimes nearly 50% more, and it's obvious why. If the market is such that 20mill is spent on a holding midfielder, a damn good one, but nevertheless, the price of Torres is very reasonable.

 

 

 

Just look at Morientes, i bet he had pace and power?

 

Anyone who knew the slightest thing about Morientes' career was that he never had pace, just great aerial ability.

 

 

 

also do you even watch la liga? i do i can tell you he aint worth 26.5 million

 

I'm tempted to ask you that question if you think Morientes has pace and the defence in the league is shoddy. Your opinion, in that regard, can be easily discounted.

 

 

 

Face it you've grossly overpaid for a player who is widely unproven.

 

Again, with today's market, I fail to see how the price is overpaid.

 

 

 

Pressure for a young kid like him coming over here. Knowing the club has forked out so much, might be a bit too much for him :)

 

The man has captained his home town club since he was 20 and top scored for his country in the last world cup - I'd say he knows something about pressure.

[raz]

bubsa stfu, how many liverpool games have you actually been too? LoL,

 

 

 

The fact is plain and simple torres scored about 13 goals last season in a shoddy team in a shoddy league

 

 

 

Now lets compare him with andy johnson, in crap team but in a very hard and phyical league yes? he scores 19 goals in the season, dont give me this [cabbage] about his team not being good enough, another example darrent bent??

 

 

 

Agian degio forlan comes to manchester united and scores little under 17 in 95 appreances , goes to spain and because the bloody top scorer!!!!! and wins european golden boot

 

 

 

If this lad is meant to be your savior and get you 20 odd goals a season then HAHAHAH kid aint worth 26.5 million for [cabbage]

 

 

 

Another year for liverpool, another year without the premiership :D

[Bubsa]

I don't see I should bother arguing back, your ignorance is astounding and you've already lost the arguement. But in any case, in the vain hope you might learn something:

 

 

 

bubsa stfu, how many liverpool games have you actually been too? LoL,

 

Insult = You lose. Don't be mad that I'm more enlightened on the subject than you are. For the record, I own a season ticket to Liverpool, in the kop end, and have done for the last 3 years. I'd say I've been to a lot more games than the team you support.

 

 

 

The fact is plain and simple torres scored about 13 goals last season in a shoddy team in a shoddy league

 

Shoddy team, yes. Shoddy league? Don't make me laugh. Competitiveness, quality and organisation of La Liga far surpasses the EPL. Just compare the seasons just gone. I thought you watched La Liga after all?

 

 

 

Now lets compare him with andy johnson, in crap team but in a very hard and phyical league yes? he scores 19 goals in the season, dont give me this [cabbage] about his team not being good enough, another example darrent bent??

 

Pains me to say this as a Liverpool fan, but Everton aren't a crap team. 6th in the league is certainly not crap. Again, I'd re-[wagon] the area from which you're speaking from. As for Darren Bent - he didn't score 14 goals in a season, and his transfer value is inflated due to him being young, English and a striker. Simple, really.

 

 

 

Agian degio forlan comes to manchester united and scores little under 17 in 95 appreances , goes to spain and because the bloody top scorer!!!!! and wins european golden boot

 

This may come as a shock, but different players prefer different leagues. I know, crazy isn't it? Forlan didn't suit a Manc culture (who would, let's be honest? :P), couldn't adapt to the pace and physicality of the Prem and so went on his way. Many great players over the years have fallen in the same category. Think of Shevchenko, and further back in time Winston Bogarde, Sergei Rebrov (the more prolific and expensive side of the Kiev partnership with Sheva), Juan Seba Veron - all players who have flourished at a high international level, but couldn't do anything in the Prem.

 

 

 

If this lad is meant to be your savior and get you 20 odd goals a season then HAHAHAH kid aint worth 26.5 million for [cabbage]

 

Again, you're ill-informed. It's not as if LFC are struggling for goals, season before last Gerrard got 23 from midfield - not too bad, just an extra dimension Torres undoubtedly brings.

 

 

 

Now, either come back with a detailed, constructive arguement for a change, rather than your lols, insults and biased, deluded rants, or go away and leave this thread to people who actually want to discuss.

[Gamerr]

The swap of Liverpool with Torres and Luis Garcia + 26 million euros is a bit over the top. Luis Garcia has proven in the past he can be a very useful player for the team, and I doubt that Torres is worth him + 26 million euros.

 

 

 

The above posters have to realise that such deals are made after a long period of scouting. Torres has been transferred to Liverpool because they believe his qualities can be useful in the Premier League.

[angryjoe]

What about that Voronin fella?

 

 

 

Not alot has been said about him, is he any good?

 

 

 

 

 

Also they are now suggesting that Torres only cost ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã20million (I say only... :-k )

[azntemplar_00]

Morientes never had pace - he was always better when partnered with a quicker striker like Raul in his Madrid days.

[StrOwez]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 239286.stm

 

 

 

 

 

Liverpool have signed Fernando Torres from Atletico Madrid on a six-year deal for a fee that could rise to ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã26.5m.

[Bubsa]

What about that Voronin fella?

 

 

 

Not alot has been said about him, is he any good?

 

 

 

Meh, looks like another Kuyt, tbh. Great work rate, good in the air, very good link up man, iffy finishing. Good to have another man like that though, and he was free, so no complaints here.

 

 

 

I tell you what though, Chelski's free transfer of Pizzarro is a great, great buy. Quality player for nothing and I think he could do really well...if he gets game time.

[1_man_army]

I reckon Torres will be a decent signing for Liverpool. While his scoring record isn't great you have to remember he had no service at Athletico Madrid. He's got pace, he's strong, quick feet and a good touch so I don't see why he'd fail although stranger things have happened.

 

 

 

That being said I don't think Liverpool will win the Premiership this coming season. I think they need another wide player and a full back or two and they just don't seem to have the strength in depth that Chelsea and Man Utd seem to have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/6239286.stm

 

 

 

 

 

Liverpool have signed Fernando Torres from Atletico Madrid on a six-year deal for a fee that could rise to ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã26.5m.

 

 

 

According to Sky Sports News that figure is wrong, they got Torres for ÃÆââ¬Å¡Ãâã20 Million (30 million euros).

[Bubsa]

That being said I don't think Liverpool will win the Premiership this coming season. I think they need another wide player and a full back or two and they just don't seem to have the strength in depth that Chelsea and Man Utd seem to have.

 

You're right about the players we need, but I think if we can get them we can mount a challenge. A lot depends on the start of the season. The last 3 starts have not been good enough. Simple as. We need 15 from the first 18 - because come mid season, when Chelski and Man Yoo start motoring through their easy fixtures (again), we'll need to be with them.

 

 

 

Don't know how Arsenal are going to do, tbh. They need a proven finisher and fast. Someone who's done it, experienced and relatively cheap, taking into account their debt. But with all the speculation over the players, board and manager, it will either galvanise them and make them real challengers, are cripple them. Most of me thinks it will be the latter.

[azntemplar_00]

raz, stow the language. We can see the point you're trying to get across, but if you use any more petty insults, you might give off the impression that Johnson plays for a four-letter club that starts with a 'c' and ends with a 't'...

 

 

 

As for Arsenal, I don't think we can find a 'proven' finisher - that's not Wenger's style to recruit players we've heard of :-P. I think the boys will just have to develop that sense themselves - surely they give themselves enough practice already ;-).

[angryjoe]

As for Arsenal, I don't think we can find a 'proven' finisher - that's not Wenger's style to recruit players we've heard of :-P. I think the boys will just have to develop that sense themselves - surely they give themselves enough practice already ;-).

Ya, I was thinking the same. As long as Wenger stays, I think that they can be mighty again. Da Silva looks like ha can be a class act.

[Bubsa]

It's all about Wenger staying. That's what makes him and Ferguson a cut above Mourinho and the rest - taking a doldrum team into champions. Hopefully, Benitez will join them.

 

 

 

Dr. Silver looks good, but you have to be careful with players coming from leagues like that - remember Mario Lardel and Bolton?

 

 

 

Although, he has youth and pace on his side, and I hear he was impressive and score dagainst England for Croatia (yes, he's Croatian. No Joke)

[azntemplar_00]

Found an interesting article on Eduardo da Silva.

 

 

 

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/06/04/croatias_biggame_poacher_strik.html

 

 

 

[hide]

It was just over two years ago that I first began taking notice of Eduardo da Silva. I was drinking coffee in a restaurant in the mountains above Split, looking down over the Adriatic, interviewing Slaven Bilic. The former West Ham and Everton defender is somebody who, if you get him in the right mood, you don't really have to interview. Just set him going and the opinions and the anecdotes roll out.

 

 

 

He'd been on great form that morning, talking about Ciro Blazevic and the '98 World Cup, about the war, about his love of London, about his job as Croatia Under-21 coach. And then he leaned forward across the table with an air of seriousness. "There is a boy," he said, "who is very special. He came from Rio when he was 15, and you could put him now in the team at Manchester United and you wouldn't know he wasn't from there. Believe me, he will do things."

 

 

 

He was right. He has.

 

 

 

To say that Da Silva is the only reason that Croatia lead their Euro 2008 qualifying group would be unfair. Luka Modric, with his Jesper Olsen hair and his Arnold Muhren touch, is a sumptuous player, always finding angles; Robert Kovac remains implacably solid; and Vedran Corluka has emerged as one of the most promising right-backs in Europe. But Da Silva is the main reason.

 

 

 

We live, we are constantly told, is an age without goalscorers; there is a need for forwards to be able to do more than simply stick the ball in the net. A Gerd MÃÆÃâÃâüller, a Paolo Rossi or a Gary Lineker would, supposedly, have no place in the modern game. Zoran Filipovic, the former Red Star coach who is now manager of Montenegro, suggested that the levels of fitness and defensive organisation these days mean that the opportunities, the gaps and the mistakes, on which poachers used to rely, no longer exist.

 

 

 

To an extent, he is probably right. And yet, at 24, Da Silva has a goals-to-game record that stands comparison with the great goalscorers of any age. Admittedly he has yet to do it at the very highest level, but it is surely only a matter of time before he is given that opportunity. Even bearing in mind that the Croatian league is only part of Europe's middle rank, his record is extraordinary. Last season Da Silva banged in a record 34 goals in 32 games for Dinamo Zagreb, including the first ever hat-trick in a classico against their great rivals Hajduk Split. In 100 games for Dinamo, he has scored 71 times.

 

 

 

What he brings to the national side is obvious. England were outplayed in Zagreb, but Bilic has since admitted that he feared the game was drifting towards a draw as Paul Robinson made three or four excellent saves and a Niko Kranjcar shot deflected wide off Rio Ferdinand.

 

 

 

But then, just after the hour, Niko Kovac's looping cross from the left found its way to Da Silva eight yards out. He probably could have scored by taking the easy option and heading down to his right, but Robinson was moving that way and might have reached it. So he put the header in the one place he could be sure Robinson wouldn't get to it, shaping his finish back over the goalkeeper and into the top left corner. Robinson was left looking rather foolish, something that was inevitably highlighted as he subsequently missed Gary Neville's backpass to concede a second, but perhaps rather than blaming him we should have been praising the quality of the header.

 

 

 

Da Silva turned a draw into a win, and he was at it again in Tallinn on Saturday, scoring his sixth of the qualifying campaign. Estonia's industry and organisation limited Croatia's chances, but when Kranjcar miscontrolled Corluca's pass, Eduardo swivelled on to the loose ball and hooked a 20-yard finish into the bottom corner. "A misplaced pass, a half-chance, and again we lose," as Estonia's coach Jelle Goes reflected. And that really was how it was.

 

 

 

Perhaps poachers are a dying breed, and perhaps at the very highest level the modern club game has evolved beyond them, but their worth in international football should not be discounted. Perhaps there, where the limited time players have to train together means organisation is not so stifling (Hugo Meisl, the great Austrian coach, reflected on the disparity as early as 1932), those half-chances do still occur. How often, under Sven-Goran Eriksson, did Michael Owen suddenly turn a qualifier, just as Lineker used to save England in the eighties?

 

 

 

Bilic has been bold in promoting young players he knew from the Under-21s, and has finally ended the endless debate about the merits of the classic Balkan style 3-4-1-2 by simply binning it. His 4-1-3-2 has provided technicians like Kranjcar and Modric, even the ageing Milan Rapajic, to prosper, but the real secret of his success, as he knew it would be two years ago, is that he has a player who scores goals.

[/hide]

[Scars]

Hmm, good read there azn. Interesting times ahead with all the players coming in.

 

 

 

Ah, there's more than a month left for Epl. :(

[angryjoe]

At 12pm today we find out what exactly is going to happen with Leeds :) .

 

 

 

It wont be the end of it though, because if Simon Franks' offer is accepted, Bates will sue. And if Ken Bates' offer is acceoted, he will still be in charge. :(

 

 

 

Either way, Leeds fans wont be seeing the end of that old c u next thursday #-o (gotta be said)

[azntemplar_00]

Tevez to Manchester United?

 

 

 

Jeesh, and at the beginning of this summer, I thought Hargreaves was all they needed for next year :-P

[doomy]

I don't follow this sport really....I like watching it a bit and I play it as a winter sport though.

[azntemplar_00]

And Liverpool get Babel too? This is the year, eh? Thought he'd hold out for Arsenal :-P

[angryjoe]

Aparrently Freddy Adu might be going to the hoops.

 

 

 

Doubt it though.