Castle wars 2008

Castle wars 2008

Why Castle wars

Castle wars is the best minigame in runescape. Many cant agree, because they havent really ever understood the point of the game. Castle wars is fun and exciting, and gives a lot to those who master it. You wouldnt know before you tried it! The point isnt to get as many tickets as possible, but to enjoy the game and maybe gain a little experience in the process.

Note that this guide is for those who want to really play castle wars, not for those who wish to kill players in castle wars. The difference between the two is huge. Pking in castle wars is simple: take your best gear, sip a potion, pray and kill. Real castle wars requires more than just gear, stats, and luck.

If you already are a castle wars pro, dont expect to learn anything new. Please do give some feedback and see if there are any errors or things to add. Thanks.

The idea of this guide is to give a deeper look into castle wars, not explain how you should do it in detail, but showing the means which lead to the ultimate castle wars experience. These quotes should explain what I mean :D

Unfortunately, no one can be told what Castle wars is. You have to see it for yourself.

Morpheus, The Matrix

I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.

Morpheus, The Matrix

[hide=Learning the basics]Learn the basics

Good guides:

Runescape knowledge base castle wars guide

• 
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Tells the basics: controls, maps, rewards, storage room items

Tip.it castle wars guide

• 
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Lists a few common tricks, good for low leveled and new castle wars players

Trojann2s guide to castle wars (2006)

• [*:3l7ytft0]Old school castle wars- guide: Equipments and some tricks are outdated

Unbeatens guide to flag holding

• [*:3l7ytft0]Must-read, but old school

The above guides have many useful tips and tricks for the starting castle wars players, so I suggest you read them. Castle wars has changed a lot since 2006, so its time to have an up-to-date guide about it.

/* Someone link me to Danqazmlp's scoring guide so I'll edit it in.[/hide]

[hide=Equipment and stat suggestions]Equipment

Here is the equipment most cw players use. You want to get the best magic defence, and melee and ranged defence as secondary armor. Youll need to hybrid, melee and ranged is the most common set-up because its cheap, but melee and magic is the more efficient and more expensive combo.

Head- none

Cape- none

Body- Armadyl Karils Black dhide + ( a barrows plate) [Ahrim top]

Legs- Armadyl Karils Black dhide + Veracs skirt [Ahrim bottom]

Boots- Infinity Dragon boots or ranger boots

Gloves- Obviously the RFD gloves

Ring- Any DK ring you got, depending on which combat styles you are using, seers ring for magic defence

Amulet- 3rd age amulet fury glory

Melee weapons ZGS Whip Any GS

Magic defence weapons Master wand Ancient staff if you ancient

Shield Mages book or DFS, spiritual shields

Ranged weapons Rune xbow (broad bolts suggested) Crystal bow

Special weapons D spear/ Zamorak spear Seercull- (DDS, D mace, granite maul, dark bow)

Other items Castle wars bracelet - Rune pickaxe or Adze sara brews, defence, pray and restore potions if you think youll need them.

Required stats

You do not need to have high levels to play castle wars, but they do help. Check above for what equipment you should aim at and use the best alternatives that you have the stats for. Castle wars can be played even on a lvl 3 account.

Seriously, some people do that just to get an extra challenge.[/hide]

[hide=Castle wars dictionary]Castle wars dictionary

Ill use these terms in this guide, because its the only right way to talk about castle wars. These are widely used among cw players, not just something I made up.

• 
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]A stacked team A team has more good players than the other team. There are many kinds of stacks: ancient stack (much more ancients), click stack (all clickers in one team), sad stack (a team is so much stacked that its pathetic). A stacked team usually wins.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Antistack A group of players that play against a stacked team and are aware of the high chances of losing. They are the Good guys. These players will say nice stack when they lose, and lol nice stack when they win.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]A stacker A player that stacks or a player that always wins. Calling someone a stacker is as bad as calling someone a pc product.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Tix Castle wars tickets, example: How many tix you got?
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Flag The standard
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Flag holder a person that has one of the standards
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Theirs The other teams flag
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Ours Your teams flag
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]SS, NS, stones, rocks North/South stepping stones, example: Theirs ss = Their standard is at south steppingstones
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Reb, rebound When a standard is returned to its starting position. When a flag is safed.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]I safe The flag holder goes on stepping stones to get killed. A rebound happens.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]10 cades All the teams 10 cades are in use. Usually they want you to destroy a few cades.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Cade They ask you to cade the other teams base, because ours is heading there.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Und, under Underground
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Mid, middle The middle, above or underground, example: Theirs und mid = Their standard is in the middle of the underground area
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Bridge Nearly the same as middle, but above ground
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Clear They want you to remove cades from your base, because theirs is heading there. Usually also means that there are a dozen ancient mages and spearers ready to pk the coming flag holder.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Drop Someone wants you to drop the standard. Could be either from your team or the opponents.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Brace They remind you to use your castle wars bracelet
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]gg, gj, gf, hf, - good game, good job, good fight, have fun
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Def Defend ours
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Att Attack, go for theirs, example: Are you going to att or def?
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Cws castle wars
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Cw pker a player that solely kills others in castle wars
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Hugging a common term in team pking, and also in castle wars. You hug obstacles so your opponent gets stuck on the other side or hug ladders so you distract them. Its easy to do but hard to explain.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]a click skilled cw players have a good click: they can pick up the standard faster than others when its dropped. There are loads of rumors around about what things affect ones click. Can also mean a mans certain body part.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]a clicker a player with a good click
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]dg, drop game. A game where the standard is dropped and then picked up again, the point of the game is to test ones click.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]ip changer, iper - a player who believes changing your ip affects your click. Widely used of all players who have a good click. Changing to a good ip is said to take hours, but many argue that ip has no effect on a player's click. Go figure.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Spear, spearer Dragon or zamorakian spear special attack and the person who does this special. Some people find spearers annoying, example: Nice spear[/hide]
   
  [hide=Learn the map]
   
  Learn the map
   
  The maps have fundamentally stayed the same over the years, but the castles have had slight modifications and some obstacles have been removed.
   
  The obstacles dont show on your minimap, so its good to know where they are.
   
  On this map Ive painted the most used routes. The green shows the fastest, most used route from a base to another. The yellow and red are the slower ways and the blue shows where flagholders usually take their flag.
   
  Ignore the pink.[/hide]
   
   
   
  [hide=Choosing worlds and sides]Choosing a world
   
  Worlds 24 and 82 are the most popular official worlds for castle wars. Smaller worlds dont have many players so it might be easier to learn new tricks there. On the other hand, you wont find as many good cw players there. This guide assumes you are playing in worlds 24 and 82.
   
   
   
  Choosing sides
   
  Its often pretty easy to see which team is stacked. You have to decide if you want to get easy tickets and do easy scores, or if you want to test your skills against an overpowered enemy. Both options have their own good sides, but the easiest choice is to take the guthix portal.
   
  Although the bases arent totally symmetrical, the differences are only small and dont offer notable advantages.
   
  
   
  Good players hang around the portals so it is easier to change teams at the last minute. #-o[/hide]
   
   
   
  [hide=Scoring and defending]Vacancies
   
  
  • 
     
    [*:3l7ytft0]You can score
     
    [*:3l7ytft0]You can defend
     
    [*:3l7ytft0]You can pk (Not really an option)

Scoring

• 
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Do not try to score in your first games. This will result in a miserable failure.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]When in the enemy base, take as little damage as possible. Pray, hug ladders and wear the right armor.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Learn how to score by observing how others do it. Note where they place cades, which obstacles they hug and so on. A good way to learn scoring is to defend. Youll learn through trial and error.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]When you think you have learned enough, try doing it yourself. Do not take the flag out unless you know youre going to make it to the other base.
   
  

Dont be a noob

Even if you get their flag easily and could get out of their base easily, you shouldnt always take the shortest route. Pro cw players often hide somewhere and attack when you least expect it. Here is the most common example:

Passing

It is safe to pass the flag while you still are in their base, when outside you have to make sure there is absolutely no one from the other team near you and your friend. With good passes it is possible to do faster scores, when you are frozen you can just drop the flag to another scorer who continues the score. If there is an enemy even a few squares away, you should not drop the flag.

Defending

Defending can be put into three parts: 1) Defending your base, 2) stopping them from getting to their base, 3) Stopping them from scoring in their base. Flag holding adds a new dimension to defending, but is difficult to do in unstacked games. Here is a checklist for defending:

• 
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Place cades only if you know there are players coming from that direction (ground floor & underground). Unnecessary cades slow down your team mates and are very annoying.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Place a lot of cades. =D
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Pk whenever possible. Use freezing spells and smite if you want to
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Spear them in the correct spots. Dont be speared.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Learn how your team mates defend, find your own spot.
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Dont let them hug you. Think before acting. Dont lose them from your sight. Do anything to stop them.

Orange: Cades when enemy is incoming

Purple: Cades when enemy is leaving.

[/hide]

[hide=Items of interest]Bandages, aids

These are the only allowed healing method in castle wars. (+Saradomin godsword) Do not drop bandages. Bandages heal you, cure poison and restore run energy. You can right click them to use them on a friend.

Cades, tinderboxes and buckets of water

A team can only have ten cades placed at a time, so dont waste them. Place them only if you know theyll serve some use. Unnecessary cades slow down your team mates and are annoying. A well placed cade could make the difference between a win and a loss.

Tinderboxes are useful in removing cades. A cade that is burning can not be blown up: this can waste some of the attackers time. Putting out a burning cade with a bucket of water and reburning it is even more fun.

You do not get firemaking xp for burning cades. You do not get combat xp for attacking cades. Most efficient method of removing large amounts of cades is to use multitarget attacks on them.

Dragon and zamorakian spears

This tool is extremely useful. The special attack stuns your target so he cant heal, and moves them one square away from you. Its a good weapon for knockouts and for pushing people under rocks. Note: if a person is standing on a cade, is on stones or theres a blocking obstacle behind him, he will not move when speared.

The zamorakian spear's attack rate is faster and the stats of the weapon are better than dragon spear's, but it doesn't affect the special.

Zamorak godsword

Must have if you don't have ancients ( :^o ). Used to freeze annoying ancients or escaping flagholders.

Remember that the target isn't freezed if the spec hits a zero or if he is currently immunte to ice (few seconds after the last time he was frozen)

Gates and doors

Dont close the door unless you have a very good reason to. Closing it slows down and annoys your team mates. Repair the gate if needed. Dont waste your time destroying the enemy gate.

If you time your click right, you can close the door/gate when its opened so that no one can come through it.

Ladders and stairs

These are easy to hug. When you go down a ladder, the enemy following you never knows if you are going to reclimb it or stay where you went. If your enemy also comes down, you can go back up again. (This makes you a sad ladder hugger :( ) Ladders are also easy to cade, and people can be speared when they are trying to use the ladder or when they have just climbed the ladder.

Walls and ropes

In big wars it can be good to ancient from the walls, but usually its a waste of time. Roping a wall makes an easy entry to a base, so it might be worth doing in some games. The rope disappears from the wall after a few minutes.

/* Need an exact time

Catapult

Dont bother with it. Using it isnt even fun.

Underground rocks

Mining them takes long, an explosive potion drops them immediately. Using two explosives clears the tunnel again. If a flag holder is killed under rocks, it is possible to clear it before the flag is safed. A good idea is to freeze people under the rocks, spear them there or place cades behind them so its harder to pass. Try not to drop rocks when your team mates pass through. Scoring from underground is hard because of the rocks. By the time youve gone from their ladder to the underground middle, their ancients have gotten there from above.[/hide]

[hide=Prayer, Summoning and magic]Prayer

Using prayers is not sad. I personally use steel skin and protection prayers, and piety when killing a flag holder. Smite if needed, and use retribution when ever you can. Redemption is good when you are running with a flag, poisoned and dont have bandages :)

Summoning

Bunyip is easily killed, most combat familiars arent great. Titans and the unicorn are good for healing, wolpertinger is good for its magic defence boost. Beasts of burden cant hold any of the castle wars items (bandages, barricades), but extra sara brews are always nice.

The scroll specials that stun your target have not been proven to be useful in castle wars, but I haven't personally witnessed them to be pointless either.

Magic

Ancient freezing spells are the only useful spells in castle wars. Freezing spells are much more worth the cost when compared to binding spells, because they do damage, hold longer and are multitarget.

Lunar spell book is effectively useless, because you can't use it to heal others. Sharing potions, curing poison and vengeance are all useless in castle wars.

You can ask Lanthus when the next round starts with the NPC contact spell, unless you are in the castle wars lobby and he sees you.

You can enchant bolts and fill buckets with the lunar spell, but you can't cast alchemy spells in castle wars.[/hide]

[hide=Flag holding]Flag holding

Standard mechanics

A Yellow arrow points to theirs when it isnt safe. Standards are instantly safed when they are dropped on the stepping stones. You can not hold your own standard in your own base. If you try to pick up your own flag in your base when an enemy has dropped it, it will be safed.

The flags are not safed outside their base. Anyone can try to pick them up.

When a flagholder is killed under rocks, it is possible to get the flag if the rocks are cleared fast enough. Otherwise, the flag is safed.

When the standards are dropped on the same square, one of them is safed.

Getting your own standard

Simply kill their scorer outside your base; youll be able to pick up the flag. That is, if you havent been zgs specced, caded or speared, and if you have the best click. Beware: after you get your standard, you are the attackers main target!

Holding your flag

Holding your standard may be easy if you have many people defending you (pking the attackers), but if you dont enjoy that privilege, they will quickly kill you. Nowadays people nearly always go straight to the stepping stones when they get their own flag. This is an easy and effective strategy, because meleeers are easily hugged on the stones, and the flag is safed when they manage to kill you. Youll be an easy target to mages and rangers though. You can give the flag to another player when you run out of bandages, and then take turns standing on the rocks.

Other popular holding spots are the gate, the small door, the wall (climb a rope) and the underground ladder. The flag is easy to safe from these spots, but they are closer to your base than the stepping stones.[/hide]

[hide=moving in castle wars]Moving in castle wars

[/hide]

[hide=How long it takes to get tickets]How long it takes to get tickets?

A round of castle wars takes 20 minutes. There is a waiting time of 5 minutes between each game. If you win every game, it takes you 25 minutes to get two tickets.

Full red/blue decorative armor set = 29 tickets = 15 games = 6 hours 15 minutes

red/blue decorative armor stand = 18 tickets = 9 games = 3 hours 45 minutes

Full silver/blue decorative armor = 290 tickets = 145 games = 60 hours and 25 minutes

silver/blue armor stand = 180 tickets = 90 games = 37 hours and 30 minutes

Full gold/blue decorative armor = 2900 tickets = 1450 games = 604 hours and 10 minutes

gold/blue decorative stand = 1800 tickets = 900 games = 375 hours

But because you will lose every now and then (every second game or so), these times will vary a lot.

CWC has a cw ticket top 10 list.[/hide]

[hide=Castle wars clans, communities and youtube videos]After you've played castle wars for over six months and are nearing your first one thousand tickets, you might want to get to know the people you are playing with daily, and this is where castle wars clans and communities step in. There are about half a dozen active and highly respected castle wars clans and a dozen smaller ones, with hundreds of active members in total. The community is tightknit and loving. Because castle wars is a serious business and very exciting and addictive, flaming and badmouthing is normal. If you can't handle offensive language or pictures, you might want to reconsider joining a castle wars clan, but then again you wouldn't be in the Internet if you were so oversensitive.

Castle wars clans

Runehead's clan database, choose "Castle wars group": http://www.runehead.com/clans/minigames.php

Castle wars community, CWC

These forums are open to all people interested in castle wars. Enter at your own risk.

Castle wars videos in youtube

Youtube obviously holds many castle wars videos. Usual content includes getting the most kills, defending, basetobase-scores, good clicks, flag holding and so on. Noobs flood youtube with low quality videos, so finding good ones is tricky. At their best castle wars videos can be as useful as Jad killing videos were when preparing for your first fire cape.[/hide]

[hide=Castle wars image gallery]1480x1324[/hide]

Now the most important part: Castle wars glitches

• 
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Sometimes the underground rocks become un-droppable
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Sometimes a placed cade doesn't work: you can walk through it and can't place another one there (remove it and place another one)
   
  [*:3l7ytft0]Waiting room when game begins: you are asked if you'd like to join the game :|

I hope you enjoyed the guide :oops:

If you have any ideas, please share them.

Very good guide.

I learned a couple things from this, which can't be said for most guides. So... 10/10.

Wow, great guide! Far more USEFUL information then any other CW guide I've ever seen.

Hide tags are your friend.

But very nice guide, not too big of a Castle Wars player but useful nonetheless.

Keep adding more, great guide.

Thanks for not mentioning my guide at the begining :cry: your not my friend anymore!

Kidding, but yeah its a great basic guide, the section on defending is great.

Thanks for not mentioning my guide at the begining :cry: your not my friend anymore!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kidding, but yeah its a great basic guide, the section on defending is great.

ya its too late to explain now, i shouldve posted about this earlier, but: I simply couldn't find it. :wall: It wasn't here or here, and I didn't want to go through the 33 pages of guides. Maybe I could've done a better search on your posts and topics, but I didn't :thumbdown: im sry :(

But please link me and I'll add it.

Thanks for all your comments ppl, but don't be afraid to give negative feedback, it's always fun to test how I react to it. O:)

If you need my help with tactics, pictures, or advice, just PM me. I love castle wars.

Great guide, but, if you can link some vids which show examples of correct spearing and such, as it is hard to understand on its own.

Pretty good indepth guide. not much else I can say about it. I have a habit of cwing a ton and then not playing for a long time which this guide is good for to remind me of all the little things.

10/10 :thumbsup:

couldnt do it better myself

Added info about getting tickets, few lines about different spell books and most importantly the hide tags.

Looking into adding info about castle wars clans and good youtube castle wars videos to give an idea of what castle wars is like.

Thanks for all your feedback

Thanks, the moving and abbreviation part helped.

The guide is ready.

The runehead link doesen't work, but apart from that good guide.

The runehead link doesen't work, but apart from that good guide.

The problem is at runehead's end? :thumbdown:

I apreciate your 'aproval' :thumbup:

Write 'complete' in the title and they'l move it to the proper section if your finished with the guide btw.

Very nice guide. It helped me a bit, and I'm sure it will help countless other people.

The people I find the most pathetic are the ones with good ip but still suck. It's just so sad, they have good ip, but can't do anything else. They make me laugh. And yes, there are stackers everywhere. I just hate the ones that brag about it when they stack and beat you. I mean, weren't you supposed to beat me?

By the way, the whole ip thing is true for any disbelievers. As you know rs works in certain 0.6 second intervals. Everybody who clicks an item in that 0.6 seconds 'tries' to pick it up at the same time. There was a quote somewere saying that the person who gets priority is ip based, thus the whole ip thing.

Wow, I don't see a need to make my own guide. I'll just include more info to help.

* Summoning - It is a HUGE "Here I am, the Flag holder! Come and get me!" sign. Large familiars are sometimes not worth bringing, which is why the Wolpertinger is so great. It has great affects, but it is very small and appears to be a very weak familiar, thus not catching as much attention as, say, a Unicorn. (Flag holder = High combat = High summoning = Big familiar)

* You barely touched on Flag holding, when it is one of the most crutial ones! You obviously know the common ones, but heres a few original ones I created.

If you have a high level friend while you're underground, this setup is great. It works better if they can Range/Mage. First, wear Karils and stand to the side of the collapse-able rocks. Have your friend stand next to you, and set up a cade under you and your friend. The cades will be invisible to the opponent, and he will:

a) If he is stupid, he will run up to you and Melee. You will then collapse the rocks on him.

B) If he is smart, he will attempt to run behind you while you collapse the rocks. Obviously he can't as there is a barricade under you and your friend, so you will then collapse the rocks on him.

c) He will Range/Mage you, which can be prevented with Karils +Pray and your friends (the more the marrier) killing him.

Another technique which is quite obvious, is when you're running out of time but it is a very close game and you need to stall as long as possible. Basically, you are suiciding by deciding to follow this technique. Go to the middle (or whereever, the middle works best imo) and go up the stairs. Cade yourself in with 5+ cades, and set more as they destroy them. If they don't have explosives, this technique works. If you are on a small world, you should know whether your opponents are smart and they carry explosives or not. If they do, do not do this technique.

I know you stated this, but you havn't told the readers to exploit it. If you are running out of bandages, pray mage and wear Karils and run to the rocks, and run under the opponent. This will make sure they can't freeze you, and you will be able to camp with the flag as long as possible. This will only last until more opponents come, though.

* This is pretty insignificant, but you can emote to hide the flag for a couple seconds. This could be useful for some situations. Before, you used to be able to do various emotes and keep your flag hidden forever...

* A quick mindgame while you're about to die, and your team and opponents are waiting for you to die and pick up the flag, is to pm a friend and tell him you're going to drop it before you die. This will allow your friend to get it, plus it allows for you to survive and help defend your flag. (If they decide to kill you, run the opposite way from the flag holder)

* Mental state plays a huge role at Castle wars. If you're dressed up in 3rd age and have a Steel titan out, I can promise you noobs will stop what they're doing and they will pile you. However, if you're a level 30 with H.A.M, they will also go out of their way to kill you. Blend in. This also means to refrain from using Protect for Melee.

* I find smaller worlds much less luck based and more tactical then playing a hectic game with 100's of people. :XD:

* I don't see you mentioning purposely letting a noob get the flag.

I could go on and on, but I think this is good enough. 10/10. Finish it and get into AoW... PL0X.

I tried to keep the guide as short as possible so it's easy to find the most important parts that everyone should know. There are as many strategies and styles of playing castle wars as there are players, and no strategy is ultimately the best, so it'd be impossible to mention them all and as I'm a semi-perfectionist I didn't even want to get to it. And then there are Unbeaten's and Trojann's guides out already and I didn't want to repeat them.

I'm not going to write about ip changing because I don't know much about it. And ip can be "easily" beaten with a spear :mrgreen:

The three most important things in this guide imo are:

• 
   
  [*:3pqc365v]Cading: don't cade around the flag spawn, it's a huge waste.
   
  [*:3pqc365v]Gates and doors: don't stand around closing them
   
  [*:3pqc365v]Don't be a noob

Thanks for all your comments and please do discuss different strategies further :

and thanks to the mod that moved this

Guide is very nice. My setup is full of gear/runes when I cw. I only play when I'm ancienting. :lol:

A pretty good guide for ensuring you dont cause problems for your own team :)

A few things that I think I should point out though. Firstly, jester boots and wizard boots > d boots in cw. Also, and I think this is very important, is not to start playing cw in the major cw worlds until you have at least about 800 tickets. Play the smaller worlds and learn how the mechanics of the game work first. Perhaps try scoring in the major worlds every once in a while but in general people that arent experienced cwers tend to die and lose the flag. I personally used to go on the stacked side in w24 just to get used to scoring vs a large number of players which was very fun, but obviously once you can play well, antistacking is the way forward. :D

Wow, I don't see a need to make my own guide. I'll just include more info to help.

 

 

 

* Summoning - It is a HUGE "Here I am, the Flag holder! Come and get me!" sign. Large familiars are sometimes not worth bringing

When you have a friend with a steel titan let them hold the flag. Steel titan spec > All

I was planning on making a guide too, but this covers everything I would have said.

Great guide, I wish more people would read this so they can start becoming better cwers ^_^

Giving this amazing guide a bump. It's such a pity nobody plays anymore. My past 5 games have been 1 on 1.