Unfairness? We need equality for all posters. plz read

Ok here it goes.

Frankly, i feel bad for all those ppl who work hard and spend there time making guides , or anyother kind of post that in thier mind is for the commoin good. And after a few post it gets locked...

I know that personly i have not posted much but my posts are long, and in the past have taken over an hour on one post (never made a guide), so i cant imagine how long it takes to make a guide.

I have seen this happen way to many times, and in my mind i think mods might need to be a littel easier on ppl who make posts that the mods dont think will be helpfull. (lets face it most mods have higher levs).

ok... here is what finally made me decide to do something about this. In the Archive of Wisdom forum their is the subforum "Player-Made Guides: Skills, Mini Games & Quests", there it is plain as day a forum were we can post player made quest guides.

ok heres the link to the guide that i will us as an example.

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=686265

alright so heres this person posting what they think will be helpful, a player made guide on horror from the deep quest. and after 3 post what happens, thats right this well thought out guide with pics and all gets locked, and the reason, becaus tip.it alredy has an official guide on that quest.

well is it not also true that tip.it has a guide on barrows and fight caves, yet there are still many player made guides on those.

so it is clear that some guides get locked just because they are thought to be lees helpfull than others. well tip.it has an official guide on almost everything so if we got rid of all post because there was alredy a guide on that there the archive of wisdom would be pretty empty.

if your going to lock quest guide posts anyways, then plz remove it from the description of the supforum, so as to save posters the truble of posting and wrighting a guide doomed to be locked anyways.

i am not just talking about quest guides, but other lower lev guides.

plz mods dont get mad i am just trying to help ppl, I personly would hate my hard work of making a guide to got to waste.

Again, People could spend there time on them selves, gaining levs, but they dont they spend it on guides trying to help others, and then the guide gets locked

The point is as humans we dont lock another persons time. They devote their time to help others, time they could spend on them selves, and that time gets locked.

so, what do you think?

Here's one main reason why the quest guide that you used as an example got locked. There is more information already in the Tip.It guide. The Tip.It guide is more reliable and better written. Also, quests do not vary. For instance, there are many methods to do Barrows and other mini-games, but there isn't more than one method to do a quest. It's plain and simple, the same thing everytime. There is really no point in making a guide that is the same as the one on Tip.It's site.

The quest option is there because when quests are newly released, people can then post their guides. They may then be stickied and used by all users before the Tip.It guide comes out. Once the Tip.It guide comes out, there is no reason for those guides to be used when they are just a repeat of the Tip.It guides.

Like I said earlier, Barrows and other Mini-games have a variety of ways that the mini-game can be played. Tip.It's guide only displays one way, when there are many other methods that others may like more than Tip.It's method. Another example is for those whom wish to go for the Fire Cape. The Tip.It guide may confuse some users, so they may use another guide. It can also go Vice Versa. The method that the Tip.It guide uses may not be to you liking, so these other guides may give you another method that you enjoy more.

Hopefully I cleared that up for you a bit. :)

Agreed with both your points Devoted. Some guides are locked because there is already that information on the main site, whereas others are left open because it provides extra information to the user that the site doesn't have.

I don't think it can get much clearer than that. :wink:

The moderators have great experiance in what is and what is not helpfull, they have been there done that, got the rune stone.

It is the role of the moderator to keep the forums running smoothly, somtimes threads that are "not bad" are sadly just cloging up valuble space where other more helpfull threads are found.

When the guides are written for the site they are not just written and stuck up, they are tested.... added too... taken away from to provide the reader the best guide to the quest (although I feel they miss out too much lore). They are for that matter probaly more usefull than what new ones.

The important thing is the smooth running of the forums as already said, and I feel the Tip.it moderators are doing a good job at that.

i see all of your points, and personly think that there is no subsitute for tip.its official quest guides. That was just an example i have seen this happen before, one was a guide (forgot what it was about, not a quest), another example ive seen mods lock guides becaus they (mod) has a simmilar guide.

There are more examples, put im not going to look throung pages of post to find them.

As sed before "i personly think that there is no subsitute for tip.its official quest guides", but some people want alternitives, the guide i have linked above has a picture we all aree on that, and lets face it some people are visual learners (a picture tells a thousand words).

ounse agin that quest guide is just an example, im metioning it more becaus i have a link to it.

The point here is just to prevent people who are trying to make helpfull guides from getting there work locked.

If the giude is truley deemed unhelpful by the tip.it community, then it wont get many post and will move on down the page and soon on to the next pages. but atleast give them a chance dont lock there hard work after only 3 posts.

Now to those of you who post here, i dont want to know if you think the linked guide should have been locked or why it was (its is just an example guide). I want to know how you would feel if you spent your time making a guide that you feel would help opthers, only to find that after 2 or so posts a mod that didnt find it helpfull locked it?

plz tell me the truth which i dont think is going to be "id feel glad my hard work got locked"

Well, if after 2 or 3 posts and my topic got locked I'd assumed it was for a good reason, worth asking the moderator who locked it as to why.

Common sense ftw? :uhh:

some post do get locked for good resons, im not talking about that, im talking about guides being locked because the mod dosent find them as helpfull as other guides.

and plz dont lie to me, i fail to believe that after spending over 2hrs on a long guide with pics and all, you would not be the slitest bit upset to see that you time was wasted. it is only human to want your time to be well spent, noone wants to have there time wasted. and your 2hrs that you took to make the guide that got locked is in a scens wasted.

I bellieve all guides that have had a person devote their time to trying to help other tip.iters, should have a chance, not just get locked after 2 posts.(lets face they could spend there time on better things, hanging out with rl world friends, leveling or what ever it may be).

The entire point here is respect those people who devote their time makeing guides they feel will help the tip.it community (lets face it no one spends 2hrs on a guide if they dont honestly think it will help another).

People could spend there time on them selves, gaining levs, but they dont they spend it on guides trying to help others, and then the guide gets locked?

plz people im asking you to look deeper into this subject than a guide being locked. im asking you to look at how mean it is to lock a persons time, esentialy locking their time.

Again, People could spend there time on them selves, gaining levs, but they dont they spend it on guides trying to help others, and then the guide gets locked

The point is as humans we dont lock another persons time. They devote their time to help others, time they could spend on them selves, and that time gets locked.

i know some of the younger players dont understand the deepness of what i am trying to get across, and i am going in depth and trying to do the best job of explaingin i can.

To be honest, it is problay like it is on the offical forums.

A set of guidlines is layed down by mods/admin based on user feedback of how best to maintain the smooth running of the forum.

I assume that they dont just lock a thread that they dont find usless..... I belive that they will not be able to share their procedures with us, as to what classes as usefull, but it almost definatly exists on such a long running forum.

 

I assume that they dont just lock a thread that they dont find usless..... I belive that they will not be able to share their procedures with us, as to what classes as usefull, but it almost definatly exists on such a long running forum.

I dont have knowledge of the internal runnings of these forums and as far as i know you may be right.

The fact is that i am not talking about the usefullness of the guide, im talking about the fact that a human spends there valuble time (that could be spent else where) on making guide that gets locked.

im just saying i dont think it will hurt to leave those guides up, let them get bummed on to the next pages and forget about them. Atleast then the wrighter dosent feel there time was wasted, esentially it was wasted all the same, but they feel better, hence being happier, hence making the forums a more friendly place.

i really hate to post oposing posts, every time some one disagrees with me, but i so firmly believe in this i feel it necisary to explian to others the point i am trying to make.

Well on you side, I do recognise that it may upset the players involved.

I would personally prefer it if the Tip.it mods tryed to explain there position more in locking messages like this. It helps to not only educate the player and otehr readers but also helps to calm them down.

Off topic but on at the same time (Yes I am crazy), currently where a thread is locked for spam, the locking reason is often as simple as "Spam = locked" or "dont spam".... it does not explain to the user why spam is bad, or even what spam is!.... alot of players have no idea about this and a few more seconds of explanation would do the world of good.

Adding color and large text to your posts doesn't make them any more convincing. The moderators here have job to do, and that job is to keep the forum organized and clean. If there is a better written, more usefull guide, tough luck, out do the other poster next time. There is absolutely no reason to keep several different threads around that all say the exact same thing.

If you think having 2 hours of your time wasted is bad, try spending weeks or months working on a project only to have it rejected because someone else did it better for less money and in a shorter amount of time. That's life. Get use to it.

Adding color and large text to your posts doesn't make them any more convincing.

The only reason i did that, is because my post were long, and if a person dosent want to read it all they can read the, main points which i put in large colorful font.

And please back up your post with evidence, i have done so.

I am 100% positive that if you conducted a study it would prove that people are easier to convince with large colorfull fonts than average size dull fonts. ----- My evidense to back this up is really quite simple. How many TV advertisments do you see in small fonts in balck and white? Thats right because in the real word you have to back up what you say with evidens, and add campaign managers have done study to find that colorfull adds are more convincing. Oh and how many bilboards do you see on the side of the highway that are lik 2 foot by 3 foot ? None because larg adds are more easily read and more convincing.

If you think having 2 hours of your time wasted is bad, try spending weeks or months working on a project only to have it rejected because someone else did it better for less money and in a shorter amount of time. That's life. Get use to it.

Thats life these forums and runscape are not. And your talking about large companys working on projects, not the young (more young people play runescape) people trying to help out others. Plus theres a difference between spending time on a project to make money and spending time on a guide to help others free of charge. You example is more closely related to two woodcutting shops competting to finish and order first or cheeper. The fact is that even in the real werld when a person spends there time to help others free of charge they dont get "rejected" as you sed.

Please i really dont enjoy having my topic flamed, exspcially when almost nothing you sed aplied at all to my thread. Except a guy with an extensive imagination could relate your examples to what i am trying to say. Theres a big differnece bettween doing a project for money and getting rejected, and helping another human free of charge and being rejected.

Well I personally think that your title is a little dramatic. We do have a set of Rules and Guidelines for the Player-Made Guides forum, and if those rules/guidelines are not met, then we are perfectly within our rights to lock the thread.

When I lock topics in the PMG forum, I try to be as specific as possible as to why I chose to do so. I often link the users to the Rules and Guidelines announcement and/or the Guide Writing Tips sticky and then thank them for wanting to help the community in the first place. I leave them with enough information so that they will be able to read my criticism and if they want, prepare to rewrite their guide to include my suggestions (and meet the rules/guidelines).

In short, we like to make the Player-Made Guides forum easy to browse. Guides should take hours of research and contain little-known information. Why? Because we don't want (and don't need) 5-10 guides all on the same subject, all containing information that can just as easily be found on the main Tip.it help site or on the RuneScape Knowledge Base. And trust me, if we didn't lock some of these threads, that's how the forum would look and people don't want that.

If these users do not bother to read our announcements and stickies that make it very clear as to what we're looking for/expect in a guide, then it is in no way unfair for us to lock it.

And please back up your post with evidence, i have done so. I am 100% positive that if you conducted a study it would prove that people are easier to convince with large colorfull fonts than average size dull fonts. ----- My evidense to back this up is really quite simple. How many TV advertisments do you see in small fonts in balck and white? Thats right because in the real word you have to back up what you say with evidens, and add campaign managers have done study to find that colorfull adds are more convincing. Oh and how many bilboards do you see on the side of the highway that are lik 2 foot by 3 foot ? None because larg adds are more easily read and more convincing.

You tell me to provide evidence, then you go and say "I am 100% positive" without providing any proof yourself. A bit hypocritical there. Yes TV ads use large fonts and bright colors to get your attention. That's the tactic for trying to sell you a product, not provide factual information to sway someones opinion. If you were providing a report from some study to a group for review, you wouldn't go putting key statements in bright orange or underlined red just to try to make your point more believable. If anything, doing that makes you less believable because you have to rely on attention grabbers to make your point, just like advertisers have to do to get people to look at an ad. If people care about the subject, they'll read it on their own without the funky colors added to it.

Thats life these forums and runscape are not.

Last I checked these forums and RS still existed in the real world. The rules of life still apply. If you don't like seeing people get rejected because someone else did it better, you might want to just go lock yourself in a closet for the rest of your life. :?

And your talking about large companys working on projects, not the young (more young people play runescape) people trying to help out others.

Where did I mention company projects? Yeah I mentioned money, but that could be personal cash spent on a school project, a home repair or who knows what else.

It doesn't matter what you're doing. Just because you spent what you consider a lot of time working on something doesn't automatically mean you are going to get a good response or get the best possible grade on it.

Plus theres a difference between spending time on a project to make money and spending time on a guide to help others free of charge. You example is more closely related to two woodcutting shops competting to finish and order first or cheeper. The fact is that even in the real werld when a person spends there time to help others free of charge they dont get "rejected" as you sed.

People reject free help all the time. The homeless communities in many cities are an example. There are countless programs out there to get people off the streets and help them get their lives on track so they can get a job and live a better life, yet we still have homeless people that refuse to take advantage of that and keep living the way they are.

Keeping the clutter down is much more important than pleasing everyone that feels they need to provide the community with their version of a guide that's most likely already been posted.

Please i really dont enjoy having my topic flamed, exspcially when almost nothing you sed aplied at all to my thread. Except a guy with an extensive imagination could relate your examples to what i am trying to say. Theres a big differnece bettween doing a project for money and getting rejected, and helping another human free of charge and being rejected.

You may want to reread my post then. The only part of the post that has nothing to do with this thread (which you are taking overboard to counter the point) is the 'for less money' part. Take those 3 words out and everything I said in my reply is related to this thread.

If you think my reply was flaming, you seriously need to get off your high horse and look around a bit. If I was flaming you I would have called this thread stupid, pointless, a waste of bandwidth and told you that your spelling sucks, which I did not. Instead, I replied (thinking you'd get it) with why you don't need to use funky colors and big text and gave short example explaining why complaining about 2 hours of lost time isn't all that important compared to bigger projects that could get trashed. I guess I wasted my time too. Gonna give me my 10 minutes back?

I still don't understand what you want changed. There is a reason why some posts get locked and other don't. Would I feel bad if I made a guide that took me two hours and it got locked? Yes, I would if there wasn't a guide out there that was:

• 
   
  [*:3hikkgva]Better
   
  [*:3hikkgva]About the subject
   
  [*:3hikkgva]Different than mine

The point of the matter is, the guides that are locked are locked because there is a guide out there that goes over the same information, in a more indepth way. Their guide is better in a since, and there is no need to have two guides out there. One that is indepth and one that is not.

If the guide that is made is not any better and does not offer anymore information than the existing guide, there is NO point in keeping it around. It is basically just a copy of the old guide. It's just like any other topic. If there is already a topic concerning the same information, the new topic gets locked. There is no point in having seperate conversations split between two topics when the conversation can flow through one topic.

Like I said earlier, the Quest guides are locked because Tip.It's guides are more indepth and have everything you need to know. If quests varied in methods, I am sure the quest guides would be allowed. But, since there is only one way to do a quest, you should only have to read one guide. Tip.It's guides are always reliable and if any change in a quest were to occur, Tip.It would be able to change it. What if the user who made the first quest guide quit Runescape, so his/her guide isn't up to date? Then you could be recieving false information. There is no point in keeping around guides that don't offer any more information than Tip.It's guides.

I am sitting here looking through all the guides that have been locked. I don't see many. There are two that I have seen, that have been locked because of the Quest Guide on that quest has been released on the site. There is also another that violated the rules. The other ones I see have been either requested to be locked or are in the wrong forum. So, I have yet to see any topics you are talking about anyways. I have only gone to about page 4 in each section, but those guides date back to May 12, 2007. That is almost three months ago. I don't see your end of the debate. For the past three months, there are very few guides that have been locked. Those that have been locked are locked because there are better, more indepth guides.

I know I would rather read the better guide than the guide that isn't as indepth. I can get a better understanding by reading the more indepth guide, whereas with the other guide, I may be totally in left out on certain subjects. If I am going to spend my time reading the guides, I want to read the best guide, not the guide that isn't as good. Sure, people spent time on their guides, but why should I waste my time reading your guide if it isn't any good? Just because you spent time on a guide shouldn't mean I have to waste time reading it, thinking it is the best method to do whatever the subject is concerning. The guide may even not be up to date with the fastest methods, and I could spend time training my skills in the wrong method, thus wasting my time more than the guidemakers time to make the guide. Locking a guide will only effect one person whereas if the blog doesn't have the right material, it could hurt a lot of tifers time.

 

 

 

I want to know how you would feel if you spent your time making a guide that you feel would help opthers, only to find that after 2 or so posts a mod that didnt find it helpfull locked it?

It was I that locked that thread , but not once did I say it was not helpful I simply said that Tip It has a quest guide. I feel most guides are helpful no matter what level a certain player may be if they are skill/minigame guides.

But the Quest guides are locked because Tip.It's guides are more in depth and pretty much cover everything a person would need to know. Now if it would have been a mini game guide or say a skill guide well that is different but we are talking about a quest guide here.

 

 

 

 

 

Off topic but on at the same time (Yes I am crazy), currently where a thread is locked for spam, the locking reason is often as simple as "Spam = locked" or "dont spam".... it does not explain to the user why spam is bad, or even what spam is!.... alot of players have no idea about this and a few more seconds of explanation would do the world of good.

If they took the time to read Tip It rules they would know what is considered Spam and what is not. The rules cover that perfectly they just choose not to read them.

im just saying i dont think it will hurt to leave those guides up, let them get bummed on to the next pages and forget about them. Atleast then the wrighter dosent feel there time was wasted, esentially it was wasted all the same, but they feel better, hence being happier, hence making the forums a more friendly place.

Now this I can agree with you but seeing that it was a quest guide I decided to lock it. But I do agree with the time spent putting into a guide then having it locked I can understand the frustration. If it would have been any other kind of guide I would have done just that let it remain and fall to page whatever. You do have a valid point and I myself would be upset having my time consuming guide locked. But honestly I think you picked out a wrong example now if that was a skill guide or a mini game guide then yes it deserves to be ranted to why it was locked.

Hope this clears any misunderstanding up. :)

If they took the time to read Tip It rules they would know what is considered Spam and what is not. The rules cover that perfectly they just choose not to read them.

 

I kinda disagree with that, different people may interpret the wording in the forum guidelines differently, and mods may do the same, one mod may think something is a perfectly valid argument, another mod may come to the immidiat conclusion that it is SPAM.

Aswell as that, somepeople may forget (though it seems hard) what it says in the guidelines, and it would be unresonable to make them have to reread the guidelines every time they make a post, imagine rereading it all 10k times!

So personaly I think that it may be worth saying why it is SPAM rather than just locking it.

I kinda disagree with that, different people may interpret the wording in the forum guidelines differently, and mods may do the same, one mod may think something is a perfectly valid argument, another mod may come to the immidiat conclusion that it is SPAM.

Thats why somewhere in the rules it states that each topic is to the discretion of the mod on what actions to take. Also the rules are very easy to understand, I don't see how you could get different versions of it.

Aswell as that, somepeople may forget (though it seems hard) what it says in the guidelines, and it would be unresonable to make them have to reread the guidelines every time they make a post, imagine rereading it all 10k times!

I don't think they would forget the rules after reading them 10k times. :XD:

I completely agree, tip it guides are good, but there not all good. Some guides are not clear, and many times have i had to go to other sites. The same happens with barrows guides, posters saying; "we dont need another one", whereas in that guide, there will be something that other guides dont offer, i learn something new each time. People make guides, because current ones arent too clear, i think the mods really need to think about what there doing; "Can I lock a thread because I don't prefer it?" The answer is no.

I completely agree, tip it guides are good, but there not all good. Some guides are not clear, and many times have i had to go to other sites. The same happens with barrows guides, posters saying; "we dont need another one", whereas in that guide, there will be something that other guides dont offer, i learn something new each time. People make guides, because current ones arent too clear, i think the mods really need to think about what there doing; "Can I lock a thread because I don't prefer it?" The answer is no.

Your right, tip it guides don't have everything, but the guide that was locked didn't have anything above average, or above what Tip.It already had. The guides that clearly present something, hopefully more then one thing other guides don't have, probably won't get locked. But if its sloppy, or poorly presented in terms of pictures, text, and guide-to-reader clarity. Most barrow guides have the same things, except different methods, these different methods don't work as well as ones suggested in the Tip.Its guide, or the other guides posted.

Yes, guides will have something different but if that thing can't compete, it really doesn't matter, and if no other new information is put onto that guide it is no different from other guides.

The big picture that I see the Tip.It Staff saying is your guide better, and should be able to be compared higher by other guides, by having certain variables present in the guide. If not the guide is subject to the discretion of Tip.It Mods/Admins. Variables vary from Mod to Mod, I'd presume, and rightly so, since every user who would read a guide would think differently of the guide.

Just because your guide, or some guide has the different information, does not mean it won't get locked. Having different related information means nothing.