muggiwhplar Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Back in March while doing a bunch of quests in 07, I couldn’t help but wonder how much quicker these quests would be if I made a noob account in EOC where the two biggest woes of questing wouldn’t be an issue: run energy (basically infinite in EOC) and quest item requirements (Grand Exchange). So I decided to fork over the $7 or whatever to see what the EOC is like fresh off of Tutorial Isl—err, Burthorpe. I was expecting everything to be handed to me on a silver platter—leveling, questing, making money, etc. And to be fair, yes, thanks to the SoF, it’s very easy to make money and level up skills. All of my income came from SoF. I ended up with about a dozen of those Midas gloves from quest reward SoF spins. But I digress… Ultimately, I was actually surprised at how “difficult” the game is as a low level player in EOC. The game is not catered to low-leveled players. In the past, any noob could more or less train on any monster they saw and get decent XP rates. But in EOC, you’re forced to fight monsters weak to your combat style, with the best possible equipment for your level. Which to the experienced player may not seem like a big deal, but I really can’t imagine any genuinely new player being able to figure this out for him/herself. So I did some research and, surprisingly, there were no guides anywhere written with low level combat training in mind. All of it was obsolete from pre-EOC. So if you’re a new player, you’re on your own to figure out how to train. This, again, wouldn’t be such a big deal if training in EOC wasn’t so niched. If you’re fighting monsters below your tier, your XP rates will be abysmal. If you’re fighting monsters above your tier, you won’t make a dent in them and they’ll destroy you. Additionally, every training spot is multicombat, so if the monsters are aggressive, you’re screwed. Take ranged, for example. At level 20, you can use steel crossbows. The only problem is, nobody sells them in the GE. Even for 10x their exchange price. So you’ve gotta buy all the materials yourself and request assistance to get your own. I thought it was kind of disturbing how most low-leveled equipment wasn’t being traded. And then there’s dungeoneering. If you made the mistake of doing the Waterfall Quest before everything else, you’re kind of screwed when the dungeons are created with your 30 att/str in mind. It isn’t like the later levels where you can just use a level 99 shortbow and plow through dungeons, ignoring monster weaknesses and not having to worry about armor. For low level dungeoneering, your stats have to be balanced. So basically I had to quit dungeoneering until my range and mage caught up with melee. Additionally, with limited binds, it’s nearly impossible to rush dungeons. If you don't have body armor, you'll get destroyed. But if you have body armor bound, you can't hybrid and therefore are going to have a very difficult time clearing out guardian doors. Fortunately, though, solo XP is very good at low levels. Ultimately, the biggest concern in my experience was the fact that I felt alone. There were never any other players around my level at any of the training spots—the game felt like a ghost town. If there were any players remotely close to my level, they were bots. Thus, while I have no idea what the actual figures are, it really wouldn’t surprise me if this game has very few new players coming into the game now because of this. If I were to lose my main account and be forced to start anew, sure, I could adapt and level up pretty quickly. But if I was a new player with no clue how the game works, I’d probably end up giving up pretty quickly and moving on to a different game. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alg Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 It's worth noting that there are also a lot of things in the early game that are somewhat counterintuitive. Ingame shops are likely to be your go-to source of low-level items, but they're scattered all over the world and don't match up at all with modern prices (like steel platebodies that sell for the price of a mithril set). And that's not getting into the fact that the game's flavor encourages all three styles while the game itself is built around one. Have fun picking up low-level ranged and magic items. I painted some stuff and put it on tumblr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Het_Volk Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Nice find man, most people are pretty high levels now so they easily take things for granted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallstar Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Yeah EoC made low levelled combat and combat based activities much less accessible. Which is a problem, as I imagine new players who never got to grips with and enjoyed the old combat system would probably like the EoC style of combat more than the wider RS community. Low levelled gameplay in general could do with an overhaul. That burthorpe tutorial is both boring and useless for a start. Asmodean <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Interesting. I don't know the amount of new players that start the game. Dungeoneering in general is a higher level skill though. But yea it would be kinda complex to learn. The amount of new players not coming in compared to new bots was a problem before eoc. If you had just played 07 where everyone started off as a noob then yea you would feel alone starting in 13. Yea its annoying how much more gear based 2013 is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammako Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Yea its annoying how much more gear based 2013 is.You'll be happy to know that this won't be the case as of next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassynder Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Yea its annoying how much more gear based 2013 is.You'll be happy to know that this won't be the case as of next week.I certainly hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V O R K Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Yea its annoying how much more gear based 2013 is.You'll be happy to know that this won't be the case as of next week.I certainly hope so. Yeah i'm really curious how things will turn out to be. Sway all day, Butterfly flaps all the way! ✿ ♥‿♥) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golvellius Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 It's somewhat ironic that the only world in which you can find players in the starting area is actually the total level 2400 world. (cooking at the fire by the chest in burthrope) 1 Exclusive Legacy Mode Player He just successfully trolled you with "courtesy" and managed to get a reaction out of you. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Myr Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I find people at the challenge bank chest om every world all the time... 4 Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I think one thing Jagex really needs to pull their finger out and do is move the Combat Academy to Burthorpe, design wise it'd roughly fit in tht circle bank chesty area anyway and would make a good prelude to the whole troll attack story of the current tutorial. I also wonder whether world choice influenced things here, yes the buying of gear is still an issue but if you paid the $7 I'm assuming you were on a members world, whilst most noobs would be on a f2p world. 1 Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youmu Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I had also recently trained up my account from level 1 in all combat stats. It wasn't all that bad honestly - training on men in Edgeville or cows in any cow pen is actually really nice xp earlygame. And then there's also items like chargebows and mindspikes for people who don't like melee. Although, I do agree that the Burthorpe tutorial is sort of messed up. BlogTrimmed | Master Quester | Final BossBoss pets: Bombi | Shrimpy | Ellie | Tz-Rek Jad | Karil the Bobbled | Mega Ducklings120s: Dungeoneering | Invention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggiwhplar Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 I also wonder whether world choice influenced things here, yes the buying of gear is still an issue but if you paid the $7 I'm assuming you were on a members world, whilst most noobs would be on a f2p world. Yeah I went to a f2p world recently and the low-mid level community seems a lot better there, so perhaps they're spending most of their time in f2p and leveling up before transitioning in to p2p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quyneax Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Thanks for a well thought-out post :). I never realized it could be a pain to start playing. I think a large part of it is that lower levels mean nothing. 1-30 attack is the same amount of time as 60-61 and levels only get longer. Level balance in RS is generally pretty bad, so there's virtually no incentive not to level up. Even 'throwaway' pures got granite maul or dds (pre-eoc), which is way beyond the start of the game. By the way, I hardly think you qualify as noob muggi :P.(inb4 someone reports title) Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions 99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011) 99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012) 99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012) 99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013) 99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013) Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace 30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorator Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I also wonder whether world choice influenced things here, yes the buying of gear is still an issue but if you paid the $7 I'm assuming you were on a members world, whilst most noobs would be on a f2p world. Yeah I went to a f2p world recently and the low-mid level community seems a lot better there, so perhaps they're spending most of their time in f2p and leveling up before transitioning in to p2p. That actually makes a lot of sense to me, to do low levels in f2p before becoming a member. It lets you get a feel for the game and make sure the cash investment is worthwhile (especially if you go for one of the long-term membership packages instead of paying by month). But yeah, they should still definitely work on making life easier as a nub. Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Myr Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 I think all that really needs to be done is help locate some of the newer gear shops in burthorpe/taverly, so that it is easier to find things. Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Another factor that would help matters a lot is to squash mining and smithing (and some crafting and fletching) stuff down to be level appropriate for the gear they make. Eg: Rune should be around the 50s for mine, smith and fletching the cbow. Hopefully it's not too big an ask either as rumour from jmod land few months back suggested that si exactly what they intend to do for mine n smith, but god knows when. 1 Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Myr Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 That should really be done, though possibly maybe a bit higher (like 5-10 lvls above level requirement) But definitely make the gear not spread out over levels. Then add higher level interesting things, like minor enhancements. Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thus Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 I feel that the game was harsh toward low levels since way before EoC was implemented. Sure EoC didn't help, but as a player who started when there were forced 3 rounds of attack in RSC, long before Home Teleport and low level handouts, the game seems easier in some aspects while still hard in others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Myr Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 The game definitely changed. There is so much content that newer players can be overwhelmed. Also, there are a lot of issues with availability. Some things could be done, but definitely is a big issue to tackle. Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Another factor that would help matters a lot is to squash mining and smithing (and some crafting and fletching) stuff down to be level appropriate for the gear they make. Eg: Rune should be around the 50s for mine, smith and fletching the cbow. Hopefully it's not too big an ask either as rumour from jmod land few months back suggested that si exactly what they intend to do for mine n smith, but god knows when.I still think that all equipment should be able to be smithed at the level required to wear it. For example, adamant armor should be able to be made at 40 smithing. Adamant plates shouldn't require a higher level than adamant knives. Then there's the opportunity to fill in the empty levels with all kinds of cool things, such as attachments and enchantments. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Myr Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 I was only going for the "it takes more effort/skill to make something than to use it" idea. But I do agree, it would make more sense the other way in terms of gameplay. Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy_Accursed Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 I think it'd work best if for smithing it was divided over like 3-5 levels per metal.Eglvl 1 = 2h bronze weps + arrow heads etc.lvl 2 = lower bronze armour (eg sq and chain and med)lvl 3 = mh bronze wepslvl 4 = higher bronze armour (full, pl8 etc)lvl 5 = oh weps Or something like that, just so its not to densely packed up, but its not soooo stretched out either.There's even potential for say Steel onwards to have its third tier be on lvl so like rune would be unlocked at 48, 49, 50, 51, 52 Operation Gold Sparkles :: Chompy Kills :: Full Profound :: Champions :: Barbarian Notes :: Champions Tackle Box :: MA RewardsDragonkin Journals :: Ports Stories :: Elder Chronicles :: Boss Slayer :: Penance King :: Kal'gerion Titles :: Gold Statue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer205 Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 While I think it would be better if people could make their own armour at lower levels like this, I do wonder how you would then balance the experience rates? If you leave them as is, then a person with level 50 smithing would be able to get the same xp rates as someone with smithing in the 90's currently can. Leaving aside the ability of higher levels to acquire the resources in larger numbers. If you lower the experience received from making armour then until you add the things such as enhancements etc, you're making it very slow for higher levels to train smithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Myr Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Personally, I think this update would just be done when they have a few more things at the higher level.. Maxed since Sunday, January 9th, 2014Completionist since Wednesday, June 4th, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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