Owned_Nex

What is the respawn time on the Zammy wine? Because I know there are 2 whiteberries next to each other and respawn so conviently right after you telegrab the other one so it makes telegrabbing them relativly easy. Considering superheating requires more attention and clicks to possibly net similar exp to stunning and the fact that if not done correctly results in similar exp to high alching, Im gonna have to say both High Alching and Stunning are better alternatives. That along with Humidifying I think are surpassed by other methods. However if others come in telling me otherwise then I will put it in. And yes, Barraging is faster I know. Ill clarify that in the guide. The respawn time on Zammy Wine depends on the population. Generally, people who TG wines are bots, so you should have no problem going on a maxed world. Superheating iron or gold normally is about the same as High-Alch. If you hotkey to the magic tab before the animation ends, you can get much more exp/h than alching. Its not much harder considering you are using your left hand to press one button, if you do that the exp/h will most likely equal or surpass stunning at a fraction of the cost. Its not very difficult to do as even if you "mess up" and clip too early, you can easily hotkey to the magic tab and issue another superheat command. Either way it is at the very least comparable to alching. For humidify, it is not good by itself, instead it is used to clip the animation of other actions. You can, for example, do combat, fish(Leaping), or superheat. Essentially, its magic exp without using any time dedicated to it. If you are really good at the game, you can clip a superheat with another superheat and humidify before the second superheat ends. While some people cannot do this, its intense exp/h for those skilled enough to do so.

That's a beautiful looking red herring there. Never saw one with red and gold stripes before. I think I'll keep my hands clean, and say that I did approach this in an unbiased light. I don't see how you've demonstrated that I haven't. Bash Jagex then. See how long you stay ranked. Demonstrates the futility of it...while leaving all your money in tact. People knowingly break the rules when they macro. The only deterrent would be nothing less than a ban. And sure, repeat offenders of macroing would get banned. Okay, that's a pretty logical deduction. The only thing this changes is how long it takes to get rid of a throwaway account or how quickly you screw up your main (if you're that dumb.) How would one know that one's wealth is left intact if they were indeed reset? It is fairly well known that Jagex only resets skills, usually to 10. And they abandoned that practice for good reason. Maybe they revisited it and decided to give it another try. My point here was to state that Jagex did, in fact, used to reset for botting - so many people forget that. Why they abandoned it, or for what reasons they did, is immaterial to that point. Jagex sent people to the pit of no return or reset because they were desperate or could not ban. In the early days of Runescape, they could not simply delete accounts, nor start dropping players. You need money to start a business. Once they were successful enough, banhammers dropped. I'll pull an Off-Topic here and say...where's your proof? Especially since there's so much evidence to the contrary, the least of which the selfsame thread the OP quoted? Hmm...maybe I can't explicitly prove it. It would make canonical sense to disallow anyone found guilty of macroing from coming back to the game, though. I'll concede the point, then. Which is why people have all stopped botting...right? It has nothing to do with a 'hating jagex' bias. Believe it or not, you can disagree with a company's decision without being on the leftist bandwagon :rollseyes: There will be those that continue botting, there's no doubt in my mind about that. What I'm saying is that this will deter the players that don't want to risk their high leveled accounts. I'm a level 136, and personally I would choose reset over ban. Perm bans have just about been phased out, for first offence at least. And you know this...how? A permanent ban still can be used on first offense; resetting accounts can be done randomly/sporadically and at their choosing. I don't ever recall Jagex having a definitive structure for punishing people; the severity of the rule breaking usually meant the severity of the punishment. If they feel like a perm ban is warranted on a first offense, then so be it. Perm bans have been phased out. Botting fishing is just as bad as botting woodcutting. I would like to see if you have an example of someone who has been banned recently. Seeing as how most ppl can bot for many months without getting caught, and gettng something like 99 str takes <2 weeks... "Not getting caught" is subjective. For all you know, Jagex already has the player dead-to-rights (so to speak); they're just doing follow-up investigation on any other accounts the player has. Jagex bans accounts on an account by account basis. They do not investigate other accounts you may or may not have. Point is, you get away with it or you don't. You're ranked in a jmod's cc, yet are more clueless about the situation then the average player :thumbup: Guy above me covered most points so there's not much more I could add to this What's being ranked in a JMod's CC have to do with anything? You are defending them. You would not say these thinigs otherwise. While there is no hard proof either way, the fact of the matter is Jagex is desperate for money. ------ And I'm done. I've said my piece on the matter, I'll leave it at that.

I actually agree with what Jagex is doing. This is the only way to preserve the game. Botting is out of control. At this poitn in the game, botting is essential to Runescape. Imagine if 90% of all raw materials were gone. Imagine if SW was a game of 50 or so people. Imagine if half of the Runescape population vanished. There is no reason on their part to try and stop botting. They simply are trying to integrate it in a way which won't cause dramatic problems. At least this way they will keep making money and keep Runescape alive for a few more years. After all, we are at a crossroads. The game, as it was originally designed, has been maxed out. Everything Jagex has done has been beaten. There is nothing else to do. Banning bots in a time where other companies are thriving would be suicidal. Ofc, this cover-up was designed well too. Look at how many kids believe this. Bots can edit your account? Botters can't even dream of making a bot that does this.

And spelling. Ah, yes. Forgot that. And Pictures And a topic substantial enough to require a whole guide and not just a mere sentence. Actually, throw in enough pictures/spaces/paragraphs/commas, we suddenly have something that might be substantial enough to consider a guide. Oh, and completely failing to mention that the zamorak mages attack you, usually preventing you from grabbing it 'till they're all dead and you take damage every time you pick up wine? Actually, the whole point of TB is so the mages do not attack you and you don't take damage.

Pretty nice, a few things to add; Telegrabbing Zammy Wine is an alternative. Superheat is viable, it has higher exp/h than alch if you do it right(Superheat can clip its own animation). Although this requires a lot more attention and clicks, it is possible to get results similar to stunning. Ice Barrage is the fastest EXP. Fire Surge and High Alch doesn't come close. Another way to train magic while doing almost anything else is Humidify and fishbowl. Since you can clip combat with humidify, one of my friend did it to 99 while slaying. Its a painless way to eat magic exp. The fishbowl conveniently has a left clip empty option, so you can keep doing it.

W117. Honestly, besides Con you can get all your effigies done in under 30 min.

Use the above link. Roughly however(I did these calculations a month or two previously, also, they were based around what I could do) Do Baby Dragon Bones if you cannot make more than 1m/h. Do Dragon Bones if you make between 1-2.5m/h. (This would be pretty much Frost Dragon slaying with War Tort) Do Frost Dragon Bones if you are killing Frost Dragons with a Pak Yak, or doing TDs, Corp, GWD EFFICIENTLY.

Heh, nice editing. Love the names and dates thing. Looks tombstonish.

This section is called "Help & Advice." I cba going through all the pouches, putting them in the planner, and getting the cost. It would be a great help if someone had an idea or could do it.

Well, if I knew what pouches I would calculate it myself lol...I'm planning to do quests and burn through my initial gold charms to level 31. From there I will be using the highest exp crimson or gold pouch from there. Anyone wanna total up the costs? http://www.tip.it/runescape/summoning_table.php

Too lazy to do this. Estimated cost 1-66 summoning?

Trading in Squirk juice is 10m+ Exp/h Trading in SW zeal is 9000+m exp/h Prayer with a Pak Yak is ~1m exp/h

None talk about the ghosts on the island.

Its not a bug, its a confirmed Easter Egg.

Well, personally I like to shout "F30 Large 5:5 130+" so the grouping thing is kinda out for me. I would love to use it if there were more options though.

1.you don't read what he said. In those times, it was clearly bots who drove the price of sharks down. You babble about Rocktails when it's clearly not the time he had meant. Also, "there were shark bots since its inception" is no argument. There is a slight difference between 1 and 1000000 bots. the number of bots increased, prices of sharks decreased. Go back and read my response to his statement. You don't seem to understand what I meant. 2. I disagree with Lie 1 completely. The supply from bots is not insecure at all. I estimate 80% of raw materials come out of bots. While bots do have some downtime with major updates, they spring back within HOURS. Look at soulwars, red chinchopas, or Ivy. Bots are always there. Updates WILL NOT stop bots. If bots were removed, raw materials will skyrocket. The vast majority of raw materials come from bots, after all, who REALLY wants to mine, woodcut, or hunt for weeks on end? A small group of people use the amount of red chinchompas it takes from 63-99 hunter. I guarantee you if bots were all removed, red chinchopas will, at the very least, double in price. The bots are the ones keeping the economy stable. Without them prices will shoot up. So you agree that without bots prices would shoot up? Ok so the disagreement is not so complete? You say 80% of raw materials is bot-generated? Again not so far form what I have stated... Bots doing Ivy? What?! Oh the logic in your text is somewhat flawed, but i'll try to decypher your main point... The only thing we seem to disagree on is the fact that YOU think bots will always be around to do the dirty work for us, while I think that bots are nowhere near undetectable... The fact that Jagex backs my statement up, sort of negates your argument entirely? To clarify the Ivy reference, it is simply to show that bots will always be back in numbers. I could go on and on and list every single kind of bot I have met, but that is irrelevant. I do think bots will be around to do the dirty work for us. Do you REALLY have fun chopping 100k logs or catching30k chinchompas? Do you really want to do it? Is it fun? While bots are not undetectable, when one bot gets banned, two more are created. Look at Soul Wars as an example. Tons and tons of people were botting, tons and tons got banned. Look at it now. Do you see a difference in the amount of bots? Sure, you can ban bots, but no, my argument stands; there will never be a day where all the bots have gotten banned. 2.of course we will always have bots, but they are nowhere near secure. We have soon a lot of bots being banned already, sometimes in raw masses, and this clearly influenced the economy. Once again, there is a difference between 1 and 1000000 bots. There will be a secure number of bots. If you read further, I mentioned Soul Wars. If you are too lazy to read, essentially what happens is that when bots get banned, more are created. Sure, if there were 1000000 bots and only one was left there would be a massive spike in item prices, but understand that within a day that number will be back to 1000000, most likely more. 3.again, you do not read. Yes, manipulation clans drive the price up, but he never said they didn't. may I quote for you? "What merchant clans do is take advantage of both artificial and natural price fluctuations. If the price of, for example, Saradomin Brews shoot up for whatever reason, odds are that a merchant has already bought an ample supply of it." and those who participate with merch clans and get ripped off fall under the category of "stupid". may I quote for you? "The only people that would buy it at this peak price however, are the impatient, the rich and the stupid, none of which I have any sympathy for in this instance." not exactly the same thing, but he clearly states he has no sympathy for stupid people, and I don't have either for that matter. It's their own fault. Sorry, but I'm not explaining this again. Please try to understand what I read, you look absolutely [developmentally delayed]ed, as you've managed to completely misunderstand everything I've said. 4.of course correlation does not imply causation, but it is interesting that the common trade index behaves like this, and there are logical reasons why this is because of dungeoneering. Maybe you're just underestimating the effect. You can't take both sides of the argument. What do you mean the common trade index interesting? Its irregular to have a market is follow its trend and go up/down? You seem to think if the market goes up its due to Dung, and if it goes down its also due to Dung. No, its not logical(Ironically, you have not exactly provided some of your logic) to say that Dung has caused market shifts when the charts simply do not show a turning point or massive increase/decrease in price ; I'm not underestimating the effects, I am saying there are none. When the Halloween event came out, the index went down like the release of Dung. Its not reasonable to say that the Halloween event caused the market to go down. Likewise, you can't say Dung caused the market to go down. It looks like A->B, and its tempting to believe it, but look at Global Warming. Same issue.

Stupid argument to begin with... It shows you barely read the article at all, as I never said sharks TODAY dropped 70%... It was at a time before Barrows and Slayer were released... And in the end, prices stabilized. Same thing happened with dragon bones. I mean, if bots had begun to "rear their ugly head" by making price crash down for a while, are merch clans not guilty of the same thing? They force prices up then allow them to crash back down. So you agree that without bots prices would shoot up? Ok so the disagreement is not so complete? You say 80% of raw materials is bot-generated? Again not so far form what I have stated... Bots doing Ivy? What?! Oh the logic in your text is somewhat flawed, but i'll try to decypher your main point... The only thing we seem to disagree on is the fact that YOU think bots will always be around to do the dirty work for us, while I think that bots are nowhere near undetectable... The fact that Jagex backs my statement up, sort of negates your argument entirely? To clarify the Ivy reference, it is simply to show that bots will always be back in numbers. I could go on and on and list every single kind of bot I have met, but that is irrelevant. I do think bots will be around to do the dirty work for us. Do you REALLY have fun chopping 100k logs or catching30k chinchompas? Do you really want to do it? Is it fun? While bots are not undetectable, when one bot gets banned, two more are created. Look at Soul Wars as an example. Tons and tons of people were botting, tons and tons got banned. Look at it now. Do you see a difference in the amount of bots? Sure, you can ban bots, but no, my argument stands; there will never be a day where all the bots have gotten banned. Another clue to your reading abilities... I believed I tossed out the ethical and legal arguments even before starting to make my point... I believe I also said that I do not sympathise with stupid, uber-rich, or impatient people... This leaves us hardworking, anticipating, patient people none of which make the mistakes you described... You didn't read what I said. I don't care about ethical and legal arguments. Did I say what they were doing was wrong or illegal? What I said was merchers are not simply "buying low and selling high." Maybe someone does this by themselves, but this is not what a merch clan does. A merch clan does not follow guidelines or the natural market flow. Merch clans buyout relatively unused and hard to obtain items like flowers, wild pies, granite maces, etc etc. These items are bought out and the "clan" is told to buy them. Once bought out and the price has risen tremendously, a pyramid begins. The top sell to the ones at the bottom. At the end of the day the ones at the bottom are left with useless junk. The example of Sara Brews doesn't work. While you could buy low and sell high and call yourself a mercher, this is not a merch clan. A single clan can't buy at slightly above mid to increase prices, and then sell it all instantly to happy people at a higher price. The whole merch clan thing is intertwined with RWT. Its a pyramid, and you pay to move up. Also, like I said about the sharks, merch clans are guilty of causing problems just as much as bots can. Instead of crashing something they raise it. Is making something cost 70% less really all that worse than making something cost 70% more? On top of that you argue that merchants use items that are useless? Why would that bother anyone? Swing and a miss, mate... Because it is a giant pyramid scheme. A lot of people are sucked in and have lost all their cash. They also affect things that become junk, not junk to start with. Seeds for example. Most notably curry tree seeds, which are fairly useful but not used too much, were forced up then to today's price. Some people, a small minority, needed these to level farming. Wild Pies. They weren't extensively used, but were still good. People who wanted the (at the time) fairly cheap range/slayer bonus would use them. which merch clans do not drastically cause changes, they negatively affect people even if you have never been affected. Have you been on worlds 77? 138? 148? There's others too... On top of that, you mentioned that all points are valid, but then you say that "most people are doing combat" which goes directly against the point in my article... But ok... I thought the most plain argument was WAY too obvious that Dungeoneering does indeed have an impact on the economy, which is why I left it out... But using Chaotic weapons puts a 200k per hour dent in any money generated... Should also check out osme of the price graphs, particularly around the time that Dungeoneering came out... I have been on those worlds. Most of the time there are a small handful of people. None of them can compare to W117. The "most people are doing combat" was taken out of context. A sentence or two later I mentioned this was the only way to really affect the economy. After all, "Until recently, the arguably best weapons and armour in the game came from the Godwars Dungeon. The best money maker involves hanging out for a while on PVP worlds and maybe killing a few other people there, and automatons do the Woodcutting and Fishing for the rest of us. " Those players...at the very top are the ones ones that can affect the economy by not going to GWD or Pking. A rune item drop won't do much to the economy, neither will a player catching 500 chinchompas. The amount of high levels doing these things have not changed much. GWD is full as usual, and PvP words are not barren. People arn't flocking over to Dung in numbers that can affect the economy. Price dropping due to Dung also does not make sense. While there may be an increased amount of skillers, there are also tons of people who are out to "buy" a 99. For something like what you said to happen, there would need to be a massive amount of people getting their production skills up and dumping it into the GE compared to people "buying" skills. Furthermore, if you look at the graphs of what I believe to be the most important indexes (Food, Metal, and herb), they actually go up. Granted Logs and Runes went down...but I think people are going to want to be able to make melee armor rather than light a higher tier fire, or be able to catch and cook better fish rather than craft blood runes. But I digress. Correlation does not imply causation; not that there is any correlation anyways. So, nice try, but plz read again :) I'm sorry if I offended you by my "try". Maybe read what I say instead of telling me to reread or using thinly veiled personal attacks.

A few comments on the first article: 1. Bots did not drive the price of sharks down. There were sharks bots since its inception. Why did the prices suddenly crash? Demand. Instead of Sharks you have Rocktails. If you want to PK, you used Rocktails. If you wanted to PvM, you used rocktails. Sharks are no longer the best, their prices will drop to a near Hp/GP ratio like all the other foods. 2. I disagree with Lie 1 completely. The supply from bots is not insecure at all. I estimate 80% of raw materials come out of bots. While bots do have some downtime with major updates, they spring back within HOURS. Look at soulwars, red chinchopas, or Ivy. Bots are always there. Updates WILL NOT stop bots. If bots were removed, raw materials will skyrocket. The vast majority of raw materials come from bots, after all, who REALLY wants to mine, woodcut, or hunt for weeks on end? A small group of people use the amount of red chinchompas it takes from 63-99 hunter. I guarantee you if bots were all removed, red chinchopas will, at the very least, double in price. The bots are the ones keeping the economy stable. Without them prices will shoot up. 3. I also disagree with Lie 2. Unfortunately, Merchants do not simply amplify natural market fluctuations. They CREATE them. They buy massive stock before announcing the merch. Then those who paid money irl gets informed, and soon the random clan chat people. When the item is dumped, the random people get the now junked item. Although private merch clans may target a useful item, the vast majority do not. It isn't as much forcing you to buy at max price, it is removing the item from trade. You can't buy a merched item until they are dumped. This makes some items effectively junk, and others immensely expensive but useless. 4. Another disagree with Lie 4 XD. While the points outlined are valid, the end result is not true. While people *could* be doing other things, remember that most people are doing some sort of combat. Combat, except for the highest tiers of PvM, don't really affect the economy at all. Still, the number of these players pulled off of PvM is negligible. Consider the Dungoneering world. World 117 is almost always full, or nearly full. However, that is pretty much it. 95% of people doing Dungeoeering do it there. A small majority are those that do things that can really affect the economy. Looking at the bigger picture, you lose such a tiny tiny amount of people that it really does not matter. Also, while the graphs might show fluctuations, remember that correlation does not imply causation.

Thanks for the tip guys. I hadn't thought of the house trick, and I was expecting about 1k, so thanks for the confirmation.

Just wondering how much bones I can do an hour using a War tortoise at somebody else's house in Yanill. I'll be running back and forth from the bank(if there is a better method, do tell). I'll have an empty inventory, and will be running 100% of the time.

I seriously doubt what you say. First off, you can clip potions with combat or drink while running around. Potions should not add any time to your run speed. Second, there is absolutely NO way you can consistently MAKE 4m an hour. Even with SoL+B Robes, MORE than half of your profit is going to go just to rune cost. Without a item drop, your average chest loot is 80k at most. If you don't get KC, you will lose money 100% of the time. Even with an item, unless its a good item, you'll lose money. KC "unlocks" loot. You won't get much more than mind runes with 0 KC. In the end, Barrows is no longer as good as it used to be. The drop rates have been nerfed, and it is very easy to lose money. With your stats I would do something else like go for 85 Dung.

If you want charms right this minute, do Dust Devils. They are a very good crimson charm droppers. If, however, you plan on playing on your account for a while, I would suggest getting your stats up via Soul Wars, Pest Control, or AZombies. In the long run, Waterfiends and eventually Rock Lobsters are much better.

Yeah

SS is useless, you already have 99 Str, and, besides WF, Whip+ Defender is always better. Same deal with ZS. The only thing its better than WHip+ZS is WF and dragons. Honestly, for overall Slayer, just use a Whip.

Plant the highest possible stuff you can plant. Go do dung until they grow. Check, replant, and you are done.