Hedgehog
Monster Hunting Team Leader
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Everything posted by Hedgehog
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I'm going to post a bit of an essay here about why upgrading items is terrible for 2 reasons: 1) so I can quote it if the issue reappears in the future and 2) because Osborne asked me to be more specific when I [bleep]ed at him on twitter and there's no way I can do that in 140 characters. If you've established that items should only be used after a certain requirement has been reached, which has been fundamental to RuneScape since its creation, then it is imperative that that model is not completely turned on its head. That is, if an item is meant to be unlocked at level 60, then it should be used at level 60. If someone above level 60 is not using that item, then the system has failed. Therefore, if level requirements exist, then they should represent the lowest level that the item can be used. There are a number of examples of this system failing in RuneScape, but perhaps the most obvious is with Dungeoneering. Herbicides, for example, require only 21 Dungeoneering but can only be purchased with 34k tokens. Until the release of Sinkholes, it was impossible to buy herbicide until level 62. If the designers insist that 34k tokens is a fair price for herbicides, then the requirement to use them should be 62 Dungeoneering. Likewise, if 21 Dungeoneering seems like a fair requirement, then they should only cost 500 tokens. Both have their advantages and disadvantages, but there is not an advantage to such misaligned requirements and the misalignment thereof only serves to create an unintuitive and confusing gaming experience. Not all failures have been created explicitly, however. Before EoC it was common for players with 99 in all of their combat skills to use level 60 weapons during combat. Dragon claws, the most popular of these level 60 weapons, sold from between 20m and 60m, depending on how far from their release their price was examined. This price was more than fair for someone with 99 in all skills. To a maxed player, that was a few days of monster hunting at most. As balanced as this was for a maxed player, it caused serious problems for low levels. With the exception of pures who transferred money from their main, almost no one between 60 and 70 attack could afford to use dragon claws. Because maxed players could afford to pay 20m or more for dragon claws, dragon claws sold for 20m or more. The market for an item isn't determined by those that should be using it, but rather by the wealthiest who are using it. If maxed players use an item, then its price will reflect that. For items like dragon pickaxes, where members use them because they're the best item in the slot, this is fine in the short term. Over the long term, players will be far past the requirement to use an item before they can afford it, but this is the cost of not filling out every tier all at once and it's a cost that most players are willing to accept. However, it is a serious problem when the price of an item is inflated when it isn't the best in its slot. There is only one reason why this happens: item upgrades. Look at the price of super attacks. They do not cost that much because of demand from players who can't use overloads. They do not cost that much because of the scarcity of their ingredients. They cost that much because they're used to make overloads. The effectiveness of using super attack and strength potions is severely diminished by the fact that they're used to create the best potions in the game. It doesn't help that they're a requirement for absurdly fast herblore xp either. Look at the price of dragon crossbows. They are not that expensive because they're a rare drop from tormented demons. Dragon claws are just as rare and they cost a tiny fraction of what dragon crossbows cost. They are that expensive because maxed players are buying them to make ascension crossbows. Before the release of elder shortbows, the only feasible way of going from 60 to 70 ranged was to use chinchompas. In the time it would have taken a player to make the 20m it would have cost them to buy a dragon crossbow, they could have trained well into the 80s with chinchompas. When maxed players use an item beyond the requirement of the next item, for example using a dragon crossbow beyond level 70, they control its market and lower levels, who have lower incomes, are locked from using it. Even if it's decided that lower levels don't matter, upgrading items still causes serious issues in the form of power creep. For those unfamiliar with power creep, it's the phenomenon where the game becomes increasingly easier over time due to the release of new, stronger weapons. Let's say that Jagex releases level 90 two-handed weapons that require level 80 weapons, specifically a level 90 staff that requires a Virtus wand. Players with 99 magic, and incomes that reflect their level, have to kill Nex, by proxy or otherwise, to use the new tier of weapons. That is, that players with level 90 staves are killing Nex because Nex is still a viable source of income for them. If Nex is easy with level 80 weapons, she's a lot easier with level 90 weapons. That is power creep. Let's say that Jagex decides not to take this path. Instead, level 90 staves are simply dropped by a new boss. There is no market for Virtus wands. Killing Nex isn't any harder than it would have been if Jagex chose the upgrading path, but it's no longer worth it for maxed players to kill Nex. The demand for Nex items will cause their prices to fall to a point where it's only worth it for lower levels to kill Nex and Nex remains a challenging boss. This is the same reason why we don't have to worry about how new weapons will affect power creep related to cows. No one cares that a maxed player can completely clear a cow field in less than 5 seconds using Seismics. Maxed players don't kill cows. Cows are designed for players between, say, 1 and 10 in each of their combat levels. If maxed players don't kill a monster, then it avoids power creep altogether. If you want your game to be friendly to lower levels and be devoid of serious power creep, don't let your players upgrade their weapons. It's not worth the cost.
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Dragon pickaxes shouldn't be worth more than 100k.
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If it wasn't a joke, then you should have said something like "No, the 250k xp/hour mining method is buying spins" Which would have been wrong, but it wouldn't have been a joke. Or at least not an overt one.
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There isn't a difference
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I'm not sure if the statement I made is true anymore so I'm not really going to argue about it
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Of course EoC didn't ruin RuneScape.
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Do people actually do geysers? 64k farming xp/hour is vinesweeper What are forges? I'd like to know a little about them before I put them into the calculator.
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Fair warning about Roger Al, he's only going to be at 100m-ish farming xp when he maxes every other skill. Edit: here are the xp rates I use in my calculator. I'm sure a lot of them are outdated so please leave feedback. Also it looks like I hacked together a solution for curly roots. It seems pretty accurate but it made everything a little messy. I'll have to make a newer, cleaner version at some point. skill xp rate daily xp rate daily xp attack 440000 0 0 defense 600000 0 0 strength 440000 0 0 ranged 400000 0 0 prayer 1100000 0 0 magic 600000 0 0 cooking 804000 0 0 woodcutting 170000 240000 40000 fletching 700000 0 0 fishing 140000 0 0 firemaking 350000 2418461.5 1310000 crafting 700000 0 0 mining 110000 1400000 363862.5 smithing 246000 1400000 363863.5 herblore 740000 1400000 363864.5 agility 200000000 0 0 thieving 300000 0 0 slayer 130000 0 0 farming 64000 1400000 363864.5 runecrafting 130000 0 0 hunter 350000 0 0 construction 850000 1400000 363864.5 summoning 5000000 0 0 dungeoneering 600000 2400000 200000 divination 95000 0 0
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No one's done a study on it as far as I know
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Nah it looks more like soccer than football
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Don't fish sharks. They're like 10k xp/hour and you'll want to kill yourself. 1 fishing urn lets you fish 25 rocktails. 1 porter lets you fish 30 rocktails. You need at least 26 empty inventory slots. So just solve the system of equations 12 porters, 14 urns Apply the same logic for mining. Elders are pretty bad. Crystal trees also aren't that great, but at least there's a reason to do them. There is no reason to cut elder trees. Ceremonial swords are the fastest smithing xp in the game, but it's hard to get down. Try it for a day and see if you can get the technique down and then switch to burial armor if you have to. It'd only be worth milling your own planks if that was your highest income. It isn't.
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Trust usually doesn't degrade with time. It just gets harder to ignore your distrust.
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Yep, you are wrong
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But your case depended entirely on Gunnar having easily cracked answers.
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What if i want to go DIY to create my own urns, craft my own rings for divination, or farm my own marrentill for the altar burners? Then you'd be wasting your time But on the bright side you get some nice powerful tools to use so good for you
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High levels shouldn't be gathering low level resources
