Yoko Kurama

100M Defence.

There was a somewhat famous case in the last few weeks (I won't mention any names) of someone who is friends with various J-Mods, who was made a P-Mod, and he still openly boosts SC with his alt. So much for Jagex taking that rule seriously.

Just made my first Ascension Bow: Didn't really have high hopes, did it mostly for the 100 Ascension boss kills (for Final boss Title), got it in 123 total kills.

From the Soul Reaper FAQ on Recent Updates forum (from rsof) This is absolutely perfect and a much needed revision to fix a reward which would have otherwise been useless. Not only have they made the new jewelry worth using with this, they have made Onyxes more useful and added some value to them, and thus by proxy also making the Kiln more valuable and worthwhile (and also the 100 Kiln requirement).

Well, to re-add some of your usual cynicism, this is the one of the few times the problem doesn't originate from them :P It isn't their fault, no, but it is their responsibility to protect their customers, and to keep their services (which we pay for, going and available). They are doing more than they have ever done in the past on that front, at least, which is of course a positive and welcomed step.

Jagex has taken it one step further and added 15 minutes to all graves in RS3, as an additional safety measure. OSRS also has an intricate temporary grave-esque system added. Nice work. This is the first time I have actually seen Jagex assume responsibility for their players and actually do something in a state of crisis.

This. Skillers have just grown used to the idea that Comp is theirs, and so they expect to be able to keep it effortlessly forever. After having the Comp Cape be thoroughly beset with skilling requirements, they just can't fathom the idea that another important and large demographic could or should be represented in the Comp Cape.

No. When I said anyone with reasonable resources at their disposal can kill all bosses provided they put in the effort and time to learn, I mean it in the same sense that anyone can be a Maxed player provided they put in the time to level their skills. The same sense that anyone can get a quest done if they take the time and effort to do it. It applies to most things in life. I did not mean to say, as you seem to think I might have, that it was effortless - it isn't. Most new bosses are not unreasonably twitchy, there are plenty of options (at Rago, for example, the hardest role is Bomb Tanking, if you can't do that for whatever reason, you can be a DPS, which is far from a twitchy role). The difficulty is not unreasonable or unobtainable by the average high level player. The boss with the highest kill potential is Rots and if you put in the time to practice it and learn, your reflexes will adjust to it (assuming you're the average person). Again, if you're a below average PVM'er, it will take you a bit longer and more practice and perhaps more frustration but it is still realistically possible. Some people seem to think that just because you can't do bosses as easily as you can chop a crystal tree (a guaranteed action if you have the appropriate level), that it is impossible. It isn't. Elitism is also no longer a barrier. All Runescape bosses are do-able with Chaotics and Player Owned Ports which are far from elite gear (remember, you have to do just one kill, no one is asking you to be able to do PVM at maximum or optimal efficiency). Also there are dozens of friends chat for all bossing requirements that have opened up in the last week, where people not only take noobs and help them with requirements and teach them PVM, but they do so for free. The elitism excuse is no longer valid. Gold Cwars armour was a trim requirement though. Trim was always meant to be obtained only by a very tiny minority of people (literally less than 0.1%), and it's like that to this day basically. Not comparable to Comp which is supposed to be obtainable by a decent amount of high level players.

I don't give a shit about who's entitled or whiny or whatever other buzzwords we're required to have in our posts here, I'm just suggesting that Jagex isn't helping. If they want bossing to count toward completionism, that's their right, but don't tell us that it was our idea when the players it affects the most are up in arms about it. That is flatly untrue. Plenty of Compers are excellent PVM'ers and enjoy PVM'ing. It's typical shortsightedness to claim that all Compers or even most Compers are skillers who are opposed to this requirement and are opposed to PVM requirements. Plenty of Compers are not only okay with this requirement, but they support it, and have supported it ever since Jagex first announced it and asked players for feedback during their Dev Blogs (a 2 month process almost, I think). Only a subsection of Compers are purely skiller accounts who have grown entitled and complacent and think they have some sort of divine right to their Comp capes for all of eternity. Newsflash for them: just because they don't like PVM and won't do it doesn't mean everyone or most people, or most Compers are like them. Up till now, the Comp Cape was intended to be, in some sense (though not literally), meant to signify that you had 'completed' the game. As such it was supposed to represent the diverse nature of the game and feature a cross-section of all sorts of Runescape activities, but in reality it was heavily skewed towards skills while ignoring things like PVM'ing. It requires one to complete ALL skilling related requirements (you have to have the max level in all skills), meanwhile it featured little PVM requirements - nowhere even close to its skilling requirements. Now that's been rectified to correct that bias and actually represent more areas of the game into the cape including PVM. It's becoming more and more clear that some of the people complaining about this update seem to think that Comp Cape should only include requires that they like (i.e. skilling) and that they can do easily and effortlessly or predictably, rather than all or most activities, and that if they have to learn how to do some other aspects of the game or engage with bossing content, that this is somehow some grave travesty. It's like 1 defence pures who complain that they can't do certain quests or obtain certain rewards. While it obviously didn't include all compers, there was a strawpoll done on the HLF and over 60% of respondents wanted at least ROTS and Rago removed. So while its not fair to say all, the best estimation we have for the most affected group says most didn't want this req. As for "all" skiller content complete, they really didn't. Mastery Capers aren't required at all and it doesn't require you to catch every hunter animal, craft every piece of jewellery, smith every piece of armour, etc. It really just catches the levels part of it. Saying that all skilling content is required because someone gets 99 is like saying all bossing is covered if a person has 99 in all combat stats and tier 80 gear. Sure, they have the level reqs but they don't really have to complete the skilling content for the cape. The comp cape's name is really so far from the truth of whats required for the cape that its not really a good argument when debating whether to add a req or not. They should have just kept the original Uber Cape name.If it truly was a Completionist Cape then trim would never exist. Until they add everything to the Comp Cape and get rid of Trim, there's a decent argument for where the line should be drawn. Personally, I think bosses that may be beyond a player's possible skill level shouldn't be on regular comp and should go on Trim along with Group bosses where you need to work closely with others and if they fail then your whole team fails. Comp cape had some decent PvM reqs without having to get into the extremely twitchy gameplay bosses and team required bosses. It had caves and kiln, plus QBD. All of those were decent PvM content, Not really beyond anyone's skill level but a relative challenge, and even better they were unleechable so they actually had to be done by the player crossing them off their list. HLF strawpolls are hardly conclusive. I have a dozen or so friends with Comp who never ever visit HLF (myself included). We are more likely to get our info about the game from Reddit. A lot of people who can do not visit HLF. Mastery Capes, at the moment are nothing more than a prestige item (with the exception of the Dung Cape which is indeed a requirement for Comp). I would also of course reject any proposals for levels being extended to 120, or all mastery capes being added to the Comp Cape. Comp Cape was designed to actually be a a manageable feat by a decent part of the community (something like 5-10% of active players), and yet how many people currently have all 120 capes? Less than 10 or something. That would truly be a profound change in the cape where people who play a 'moderate' amount (by today's standards, something like 4 hours or so) but are still Comped would be forced into achieving the standard of the zealots who occupy the front page of the highscores. It's nothing like killing each boss once, for which there are plenty of options and it can be very realistically accomplished. Secondly the relevant part of skilling is having obtained all levels - not having created every single item in production skills, or gathered every resource in a gathering skill. You can after all be a master in a skill without having performed all the actions/tasks/abilities in that skill (I can be level 99 smitihng, for instance, without ever having made Addy stuff). So it's not comparable to killing every boss in the least. Unless you have some sort of debilitating medical condition, no boss is in any sense beyond your skill level. No you aren't going to be able to get it as easily as you would skill levels, nor will get you it as predictably as you can get, say, 80-90K WC exp afking Crystal Trees or whatever, but it is very possible. It's not like it even asks you do all roles at all bosses. Can't do some of the harder roles at Rago, for instance? No problem! You can still meet the requirement by being a DPS, which is very possible. There is little unrealistic twitching involved. It takes some practice, is not steady or guaranteed like skilling is, but eventually you will get the kill. It is in no sense unrealistic, but it does require genuine effort and patience (perhaps that's what skillers are really complaining about - for the first time they aren't just going to get X amount of XP at the end of the hour, they are actually going to have to actively engage and try to pay attention, study guides and improve their tactics). I have done practically every boss in the game and I am by no means some sort uber gamer or have great reflexes or even an elite PVM'er. I got here solely by practice. Mind you, I was [bleep]ing and whining like a brat when they released Rots and I was being frustrated by it (and my seeming inability to get the kill), but after about several hours of practice, I got my first kill (luckily), then another few hours later I got another successful kill, and then another, and few hours later I was getting kills at a decent success rate. After doing it for a month or so, I left that for Rago with a bunch of people (we started off with like 11 people and we would do 9 at a time) who had never killed it either (except for maybe one-two people in the team who had done it a few times), and we learned together and taught ourselves and pretty soon we were getting kills, and drops. By the end of it we were easily doing 5 man kills, though we still do 6 man kills as well. I also experimented with other teams and forum teams on the side in addition to my team of friends. Then I returned to Rots whenever I could find time and pretty soon I had mastered all the best strategies even more so, I was suddenly able to do speed kills and multiple-kill trips. I [bleep]ed and whine even harder when they released Araxxor (though some of it was justified and Jagex did try to address it: they improved somewhat the rewards, and took away the grave spiders). But even as I was [bleep]ing and whining about it, I still kept trying and eventually I got a kill, and then was getting kills reasonably well. I get it, it's something different for skillers and unlike anything they have previously done in-game, but it is far from unachievable. I get it, it's not enjoyable to be frustrated, but it is by no means undoable. The Trim Cape was supposed to cater to the extreme of the extreme in RS - killing everyone boss just once is hardly in that category (they could add the Final Boss title to Trim though, which is indeed an extreme requirement). It's something that every average maxed player can do with their overloads (96 herblore), Curses (95 prayer), Yak (96 Summoning), Port Armours, and Chaotics (easy to obtain all chaotics long before 120 Dungeoneering). If you don't have those requirements then you aren't maxed and you wouldn't be for eligible Comp anyways.

It's time to take it one step further and add some PVP requirements. Bossing and skilling is only a tiny part of the endgame. Well, PVP has certainly been historically a part of RS, until Jagex killed it - long before Comp was released, though. But if they wanted to add a PVP requirement, they certainly could and just about everyone would easily boost it. What kind of requirement could they realistically add? (Get X amount of kills?) I can't see too many PVP requirements that would require legitimate effort. Also, skilling and bossing are not a tiny part of the endgame. They are basically the most of the endgame. PVP was long ago banished as a serious component of RS. That said, if they really wanted to go there again (this would only be their 2423th failed attempt to revive PVP) I wouldn't be outright opposed to it.

While the boss slayer system should definitely assign more appropriate bosses to low level players, it's more or less an optional system with not very strong incentives to use it. I mean you get very pitiful experience for completing the tasks, so you don't even have to do the tasks. And, most of the rewards aren't really useful for lower level players anyways.

I don't give a shit about who's entitled or whiny or whatever other buzzwords we're required to have in our posts here, I'm just suggesting that Jagex isn't helping. If they want bossing to count toward completionism, that's their right, but don't tell us that it was our idea when the players it affects the most are up in arms about it. That is flatly untrue. Plenty of Compers are excellent PVM'ers and enjoy PVM'ing. It's typical shortsightedness to claim that all Compers or even most Compers are skillers who are opposed to this requirement and are opposed to PVM requirements. Plenty of Compers are not only okay with this requirement, but they support it, and have supported it ever since Jagex first announced it and asked players for feedback during their Dev Blogs (a 2 month process almost, I think). Only a subsection of Compers are purely skiller accounts who have grown entitled and complacent and think they have some sort of divine right to their Comp capes for all of eternity. Newsflash for them: just because they don't like PVM and won't do it doesn't mean everyone or most people, or most Compers are like them. Up till now, the Comp Cape was intended to be, in some sense (though not literally), meant to signify that you had 'completed' the game. As such it was supposed to represent the diverse nature of the game and feature a cross-section of all sorts of Runescape activities, but in reality it was heavily skewed towards skills while ignoring things like PVM'ing. It requires one to complete ALL skilling related requirements (you have to have the max level in all skills), meanwhile it featured little PVM requirements - nowhere even close to its skilling requirements. Now that's been rectified to correct that bias and actually represent more areas of the game into the cape including PVM. It's becoming more and more clear that some of the people complaining about this update seem to think that Comp Cape should only include requires that they like (i.e. skilling) and that they can do easily and effortlessly or predictably, rather than all or most activities, and that if they have to learn how to do some other aspects of the game or engage with bossing content, that this is somehow some grave travesty. It's like 1 defence pures who complain that they can't do certain quests or obtain certain rewards.

Bossing is part of the endgame, not the whole of it. The Comp Cape, needless to say, also has very high (the highest in fact) skilling requirements. A lot of the complaining about this update is from Comp Cape owners who were exclusively skillers and had grown complacent and felt entitled to have their Comp Capes for all eternity. For them, Comp Cape should only have skilling requirements, and quest requirements, and things that they can do effortlessly or in a predictable and safe grind-like manner. The moment the Comp Cape was changed to actually include requirements about a very important aspect of RS that had hitherto not been represented in the Comp Cape, these people just lost their collective shit. I mean you never saw PvMers who were Comp Capers complain about the fact that they had to do so much damn skilling to get the Comp Cape.

the comp cape's benefits have almost nothing to do with beating any bosses besides the one that grants items related to it you could own all of the individual components of it for months and still be unable to use any of them together, due to an artificial barrier that says "you're only worthy of being able to use things you already own, together, once you jump through these hoops" i like the concept of the comp cape, but the way it holds actual benefits hostage (instead of being just a prestige item) just encourages more of the same bullshit that makes rs so toxic Comp's benefits are not supposed to be related to the requirements needed for it. It's a prestige item with various benefits assuming you meet the requirements. It's not and was never supposed to reward you with abilities related to its requirements. It's also an all-or-nothing reward. You either meet the requirements to get it and get all the rewards, or you don't. It is not an Achievement Diary (where you can just do the sections you like get those rewards only). Some reward systems are all-or-nothing, others are such that you can choose to partially complete them and gain some of the rewards. Both are valid systems. I don't see any need to change that.

Having to rely on people, and having the team be dependent on the weakest link (the old adage "you're only as good as the weakest link") is an aspect of team play and nothing unique. So that's hardly some 'line'. Functioning as a cohesive unit is a part of teamplay. Yes, Runescape isn't exclusively a team game, but team events have long been an aspect of the game, and for the completionist cape to reflect that is not prima facie wrong or irrational. Also for both Rago and Rots, it is possible to finish the kill even if (multilple) people on your team die. Currently there are even masses operating for Rago who will take any and all noobs and actually get you a kill for free, and even teach you. There are FCs that will actually teach you how to Rots, with lots of people in them, for free. So the old excuse, "I can't find a team, and all the ones on the forums won't take me unless I have T90 gear and loads of experience" is no longer relevant. It is a matter of patience. It's in fact only a matter of patience. You can either go with a bunch of noob friends and you can all learn together and eventually after enough tries you will the kill, or you can go to masses. It's literally a matter of practice. You keep trying, watching guides, fixing your mistakes, you will get the kill. Yes, you are dependent on other people - if you end up with some shitty team or someone who keeps messing up, I suppose you won't get your cape, but you can always go with other people or improve. There is no reason why team activities which require patience and for everyone to be cohesive and on the same page and not screw up are somehow inherently unworthy of Comp requirements. "I just can't do it no matter how hard I try" is just not a realistic excuse. There are plenty of options.

Why? Why does it need to be only about what you can accomplish on your own? This is a M*M*ORPG after all, some aspects are multiplayer. True not everyone has the patience for group bosses, but that can be applied to anything or any comp req. Not everyone has the patience for DG for instance, or for Livid Farm (I nearly didn't).

I don't even know why Compers (including people in my clan), the sort that are mostly skillers and don't do any PVM or do very little even care about losing their comps all the time. I care somewhat but only because my Comp Cape has better stats than Max Cape, has the Spirit Cape, has the teleports, and can pick up my arrows/bolts - that's about it. If I was someone, like many of these people are, who sit at burthrope cooking/firemaking, or training whatever skill to 120, Comp would be the least of my worries - I don't think I'd need it for cooking or whatever.

They briefly experimented this until the Archer's ring fiasco, after which they shut it down (there was even an official post from Jagex on Reddit which confirmed they were suspending the refund plan). Afterwards, they went back to ignoring and not acknowledging these server disruptions issues, meanwhile giving famous players refunds when they needed them. So this is indeed a change and a reversal in their policy. Can you give any proof that they only reimbursed famous players for their losses during that brief time? Who were these famous players, and how do you know no one else got reimbursed in the case of server side malfunctions/hacks? Sure. If you'd like a famous case of Jagex refunding a prominent player's item, just consider the case of Dragonseance. It was discussed even on TIF (specifically in the 200M thread), and various other places and is very well known. Basically someone hacked his file, and because he didn't have the good sense to have a bank pin, they were easily able to take his multi-billion GP bank, and they changed his name too. Not only did Jagex reverse the name change, but they also refunded him most of his items (except for Silverhawk feathers I believe). I can tell you for a fact that if it had been anyone else, Jagex would have told them, "Sorry, it's your own fault for not having a bank pin." But because it was Dragonseance, someone who happens to be one of the top players in the game, they looked the other way. In fact, in previous years many people who got hacked were told to take better care of their account security. As for cases of people who didn't get refunds, they are very common ad I have written about them in the past on TIF. In late December 2013 and early January 2014, as well June 2014, there were server disruptions in which lots of worlds went down due to various reasons and quite a lot of people lost stuff. Naturally they went to post on RSOF, and a lot of the forums were litered with posts asking Jagex for item refunds or rollbacks. What did Jagex do? First, they refused to acknowledge that were server disruptions, they were quiet about the whole thing for several hours. They instructed forum moderators to lock all threads on the subject, hide posts in cases, and warn people that if they did this again they'd be punished. And that's exactly what happened all 3 times. One time one J Mod did get on an alt account though to make a post (which was stickied by forum moderators) that stated there would not be any rollbacks under any circumstances. Sometime later they sent Mod Tyran or whoever to make a post briefly acknowledging that there were server disruptions but nothing was ever done to address the dozens of complaints sent. Nothing. I also know people who have contacted Jagex on this matter and been ignored. So there's plenty of evidence. This is not true. Jagex's refund policy has nothing to do with their being a supposed lack of evidence in most player's cases. Saradomin Mage posted a screenshot earlier this year of a J Mod post on RSOF - I think OSRS it was, where someone was complaining about how he had lost a particular item and he didn't know where it went, he thought it might have been eaten by a glitch. The J Mod responded with a *very* detailed log that described his ingame actions almost every couple of seconds and he told the player that he had dropped the item at such and such time (probably accidentally), but in any case he wouldn't be getting a refund because that wasn't Jagex's fault. So they keep detailed logs on in-game stuff - very detailed logs, and they can certainly tell if someone has lost items or their technology is very close to that. They have the technology for this and have had it for quite some time. They simply refused to do anything about it until now.

They briefly experimented this until the Archer's ring fiasco, after which they shut it down (there was even an official post from Jagex on Reddit which confirmed they were suspending the refund plan). Afterwards, they went back to ignoring and not acknowledging these server disruptions issues, meanwhile giving famous players refunds when they needed them. So this is indeed a change and a reversal in their policy.

Apparently there were server disruptions earlier today (I don't know anything about them, I was soundly asleep then). There's a post on Reddit about Jagex finally changing their stance and are now actually providing a medium for people who lost items due to server issues to contact Jagex - if your report is verified by Jagex as being authentic (they do indeed have the technology to see what items were lost, they keep detailed logs), then items will be refunded. Of course, abuse won't be tolerated, as it shouldn't be. Up until now, Jagex's policy was complete silence on server disruptions, no acknowledgements, and refunds only being handed out to famous or prominent players. Better late than never. They finally seem to have gotten the right idea. Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/2dtyy3/lost_items_due_to_server_crashes_read_here/

Old School gets everything doesn't it? Not only are pets lootsharable (thus eliminating the need for people to do FFAS, unlike in EoC where plenty of people FFA+S at Rago because the Vitalis is non-lootsharable), and the lootshae system also tells you which monster specifically was responsible for the drop. So Jelly.

Lol this discussion makes me sick... People who play a lot of rs are no lifers because they are not directly effecting or increasing their means in 'real life'. Something with which I agree. People in the professional world are in the real world and therefore their 'no lifing' as you called it, directly affects their means of life. You cannot compare someone who is working 12 hours at a real life job and then going home and making dinner and then sleeping 4-6 hours to someone who sits in front of a computer for 12 hours+ gaining virtual exp/gp. Reading half the posts about this topic on this thread make me cringe inside because of the fact that people actually think RS is a way of life and that it is respectable because you are doing what you like. Everyone who no lifes RS is sacrificing IRL no matter what the situation. You tell me someone who gains 300m exp a month is respected or actually achieves something outside of RS? I'd probably not believe that. You cannot defend or deem runescape no lifing as either a way of life, or a respected decision regardless of what personal opinions are on the matter. But don't worry, I respect drumgun for playing rs for 16 hour/day 10 years and to jebroom on his 20 hour/day month! Agreed. Without a doubt, most people, particularly normal average people (to the extent that they exist), would be horrified and frown upon people playing games for 12-18 hours daily. That's not my subjective opinion, that's simply an accurate description of how people and society at large view these things. Society at large, whether that be parents, family members, teachers, employers, health-care professionals, etc. does not view non-productive 18-hours-a-day self-indulgence as acceptable in the least. Now people in here who think this behavior is noble and admirable can say society and societal expectations are wrong or that they disagree, but one can't deny that's reality. How many schools, teachers, employers, universities, etc. encourage people to play games for 18-hours-a-day or take the view that if you do that all day that it's okay? Not very many.

Basically, they permanently banned you because they thought that you deserved to be banned forever. All you can do is make a new account. Are you sure that's the hard and fast truth and not just the PR response...? It's the PR response, but the support team seems to stick to it. Also it's worth mentioning that the OP wouldn't have been banned if he only actually botted 100k-ish xp. It sucks to accuse someone of lying, but Jagex just doesn't ban people for running a bot for less than an hour. I have personally witnessed up-close Jagex handing out perm-bans (without appeal) to people who absolutely did not bot at all. So I wouldn't be so quick to accuse that person of lying. Mind you, the person I knew was fortunate enough to be in a famous clan (where J-Mods often visit their teamspeak) and on one occasion after trying to reach Jagex through all means and being ignored, Mod Jacmob happened to be on the clan's teamspeak, and he begged Jacmob to do something, and so Jacmob looked into the case and actually concurred with the supposed botter that there was a mistake and unbanned his account. Jagex's botting system is far from perfect, and their "Perm bans cannot be appealed" is one of the dumbest things they have ever done.

Well the whole point with high-level bosses is that Jagex wants to artificially keep the value of their drops as high as possible for as long as possible so that high levels will have an incentive to do them. Though I don't care much for spoilers. Those who like spoilers will get them one way or another, and those who don't will stay away.

Basically there was one giant miscommunication (between the players and Chris L - it happens, not that unusual), he should have came out and posted somewhere to address those grievances instead of hiding behind Mod Michelle.