Yoko Kurama

Bolded part is where your own reasoning can turn against you. Ignore Reaper and Famous titles and you still have had to engage with all sorts of content, including pvm, to certain extent (just a little bit atleast) to get the cape. There's the fight caves and kiln, there's sunfreet and the dom tower, there's all the quest bosses, there's the need to kill kbd and qbd for ooak, there's the variants of the gwd bosses in tww etc. Put Reaper and Famous back in sans the contentious mobs (raxi, rago and rots) and you still have had to engage with all sorts of content, including pvm, to a certain extent (just a little bit atleast). There's dks and kq and kk and gwd and nex and mole and corp and barrows etc. If comp cape only needs to be about engaging with all sorts of content at least a little bit why is it so vital that 3 contentious top-end boss encounters stay on there when even without them there is plenty of pvm content within the reqs? No. By 'little bit' I mean you have to survive every boss just once (which is a little bit). Unlike people who PVM regularly, you don't have to kill them dozens of times, you don't have to kill them at maximum efficiency, you don't have to constantly improve your DPS or results, you are just being asked to survive them once. That's reasonable enough, and just a 'little bit' as far as PVM is concerned. To give a comparison, I PVM a fair bit. When I first started learning Araxxor, I spent a whole day of fail kills, didn't get anything. On the second day and rotation change, I got one kill, then a few kills. Then I could only get a few kills or through my sign of death. Then I improved enough to not rely on the Sign. Then I could only do a certain amout of kills each day (8-9) before the enraged would be too much for me to handle. Then I could all rotations for up to 8-9 kills a day. My time also improved. Then I learned how to farm past 150% enraged. You aren't being asked to do any of that. You are being asked to survive each boss in the game just once. Which is a fairly minimal PVM requirement.

Well, it's relevant to the topic, as people have pointed out that it's somehow discriminatory to have a game where disabled people can't do everything (I of course disagree with this), but it's certainly relevant and a valid topic to discuss, even if it is controversial. As long as it is discussed respectfully, I see no harm. Then what? Shovelling away a group specifically because it has disabilities is in my eyes disrespectful. Especially when it might be a valid concern. Some disabilities does restrict certain content. For example, I found myself unable to do fight caves properly in pre-eoc due to that big importance of hearing the sound to determine the attack that Jad will do. As a near deaf person, I couldn't hear it and hence was almost always defeated without even seeing the healers. Back then, the animations happened after the sound, so for the best reaction, most players relied on the sound. So you would propose making "The Final Boss" a comp requirement? Surely killing it a hundred times must be? A) Having a complex and challenging set of requirements by definition requires that certain people won't be able to it. That's not discrimination against disable people, that's just a fact of life. We can't water down everything in order to allow everyone to be able to do it. B) Having PVM requirements as a part of Comp Cape does not logically imply that Final Boss should also be a part of Comp Cape. Comp Cape is supposed to signify that you engaged with all sorts of content (including PVM content) to a certain extent (just a little bit at least). Final Boss is an extreme requirement meant only for a small minority of hardcore PVMers, it has no place in Comp or even Trimmed (and I say this as someone who is working on Final Boss as we speak).

The condescension in this thread is thick enough to cut with a knife. Are you sure you know how to use the knife? What else is there to say? It's an entire thread of "If they can't do it they need to get good", ignoring the fact that you're basically telling people they should be more than happy to risk potentially hundreds of millions in gear and supplies on practice into a clunky and only barely functioning combat system, when they could potentially be fighting physical or mental problems that they may not be able to overcome, or just the kinds of connection issues that make even moderately twitchy content impossible for people without those issues. I'm not really seeing that as an issue of instant gratification. It just doesn't feel like those points are being addressed at all, here. The thread kind of reads like healthy twentysomethings saying that if they can do it, everyone else should be able to. I mean, yes, leeching is an answer, but then what's the point of having the requirement at all? Just being able to visit the boss is already covered by the soundtrack. A few thoughts: Personally, I can tell you from experience that despite being a Comped player who has done his fair share of PVM and has top-end gear, I don't risk "hundreds of millions of GP" at any boss that I do, and have basically engaged with all PVM content successfully in this game in some fashion or another. So that's simply not a valid concern. The grave/risk system is flawed and what not, but not for the reasons that you mention. Also, I agree, leeching should not be allowed, or there should be mechanics placed against it, if the requirements are to mean anything. One should not simply be able to buy their way through PVM requirements. And now for the most serious of your concerns, namely those people with disabilities, and their inability to partake in such activities or obtain Comp Capes, let me say unequivically, and I'm sure a lot of people will be horrified with this response, that I am completely fine with people with disabilities being excluded. The fact of the matter is, just like society at large, we can't have the game being designed in such a way as to include everyone; that's either impossible, or if it is possible, it'd would water down the game to such an extent that it would be unrecognizable to us and completely unappealing to us. The game should be designed so that the average player, or perhaps slightly above average (in the case of high-end stuff) should be able to do it comfortably, not just everyone. As others have mentioned, designing a game that lets everyone, literally everyone, do everything is bad, awful design. There are people who don't have the attention span to do the slower skills, should we make it so that they can instantly get 99s or in a much reduced time? There are people who are too busy with work and/or school, or perhaps family, to get the Comp Cape, should we drastically reduce the time from all requirements for them? Absolutely not, that'd be absurd. (That's not to say that there aren't requirements which are absurd or take too long, but in those cases, it should be reduced for other reasons, not so that a few people can't do them) The fact of the matter is that everything must be exclusionary in some way, and people with disabilities are a statistical minority who are negligible in the grand scheme of things. We should help them in real life to make life easier for them, but we cannot simply water everything down so that they partake in it easily so much so that it is to the detriment of everyone else. The same applies to Runescape. If you're disabled, then there are certain things you just can't do and you have to accept that, that's just how life works.

It's an interesting and topical discussion that has stemmed tangentially from Rush of Blood and Hall of Fame Challenge requirements from the Elf City update, and the recent trend to include PVM requirements into the Comp Cape. Could you, if possible, separate it into its own thread? If you're a skiller who, for whatever reason, can't do PVM, then there's already a cape (several in fact) that are specifically designed for you: the Skill Capes, the Expert Capes, the Master Capes, and finally the Maxed Cape. The Comp Cape was in theory supposed to be a cross-section of all or most relevant aspects of the game, and thus it was an oversight and misake to not include PVM requirements into it - that has recently been rectified. If you're a skiller and completely unable to do PVM, well, then you shouldn't have a Comp Cape, just as if you're a PVM'er who finds skilling too boring to get 99's, in which case you wouldn't and shouldn't have a Max Cape.

It was the idea of a *few* players to cut the prizes. Not all. Also, the prizes that they wanted cut were prizes which would harm or distort the economy and certain rare drops (like the 100M prize and Death Touched Darts) - I don't think a single person wanted to see Warpriest and Golden Godswords or Skilling outfits cut - which were all fun little prizes. Personally I would have killed for a Golden Warpriest Set or a Godsword, and I couldn't care much about the 100M prize. Secondly, with a dramatic increase in chance, at least it'd be better than the current situation where some people walk away with 9-12 darts, while others get none. Still, you're right, some people would still get nothing, but that number would be lower than what it is right now, though in general purely luck-based systems suck and are not fun for a lot of people. Super September from last year, as shit as it was, was a thousand times better than this, or that one year where every member got Darts, not just a few.

No one was guaranteed anything and there was no way to abuse/pay2win. That's a huge step forward for how they put out content and events. What more do you want from them? And that's why the Raffle is an idiotic idea. Any time you have a luck-based system, a few people are going to do very well, and some people are going to do very poorly, through no fault of their own. Just as those who did well have a right to be happy, those who didn't have a right to protest this/complain. There is nothing impartial or virtuous or great about luck-based systems (and they are very unfun if you happen to be unlucky). Yet for some reason Jagex has an infantile obsession with it (just about everything they can make luck-based, they do). What more do we want from them? How about systems that aren't based on luck? They could have done completely different systems, or put in fail safes so that if you didn't win anything, your chances went dramatically up. So no, [bleep] luck-based systems. Luck is a part of life, but there's nothing great about it, there's no reason to incorporate it into fantasy games (where we come to escape life, not relive all the shitty aspects of it) to the extent that Jagex or other games do. Cancer is also a part of life, but I wouldn't want to see it in RS.

I finally won something (3 darts - I put in 18 tickets), while other people have won loads and loads of other prizes. [bleep] this raffle.

On the whole, I like it so far (none of the game-breaking stuff was in batch 1, saved for batch 2), though I did think there were too many Comp requirements that should have been saved for Trim. Also the Cadarn requirement was a rather pointless grind - should have never been designed. The AFK methods are a godsend.

For shame!

I hate you so much right now.

Why is Jagex perpetually committed to causing market instability and crashing things? If those stupid darts weren't enough, now this bonus weekend is crashing everything because everyone is selling their gear to merch things for the weekend. [bleep]. Is Jagex's only strategy for increasing subscribers to host a bazillion bonus experience events a year? We just had the summer. Why did we need this again?

No reason why it shouldn't give experience (combat - though not slayer) - not like bosses are OP experience anyways. As for supplies, it should be 50-50 or something like that - otherwise more experienced players have no incentive to teach newb players (that's one of the reasons why learning top level bosses is difficult - no one who has already mastered it wants to pour costly supplies down the drain for failed kills all to teach someone else). If they give you supplies or its safe from normal death mechanics they absolutely should not give any xp for it. It'd be too easy to abuse for xp because there would be no real penalty for not paying attention to the point you die and no real incentive to keep yourself alive since death would mean free heal and prayer. Depends what bosses it is and if there are free supplies or not (I am not sure supplies should be free). I presume practice mode is for bosses that are actually difficult (Vorago/Rots/Araxxor and a few others) - not all bosses. The experience at those bosses is so pitiful, I doubt anyone could abuse them for lots of experience. If supplies were free, then it shouldn't give experience (though it probably still wouldn't be OP experience even then).

No reason why it shouldn't give experience (combat - though not slayer) - not like bosses are OP experience anyways. As for supplies, it should be 50-50 or something like that - otherwise more experienced players have no incentive to teach newb players (that's one of the reasons why learning top level bosses is difficult - no one who has already mastered it wants to pour costly supplies down the drain for failed kills all to teach someone else).

Got my Insignias, even if they are a bit useless.

It won a guaranteed content thing at Runefest so they developed it. Not to mention pretty much all of the hard-modes have been player requested. Players wanted a reason for higher levels to do mole - hard mode Players wanted the TWW Gwd bosses mechanics in real GWD - they made hard mode. Elite players wanted a more challenging vorago - they got hard mode People voted on the 'dragons den' at runefest and ba rework with hardmode won. I can't think of a single hard mode in-game we the players didn't ask for in some form or other. I don't doubt that players asked for Hard Mode, but Jagex has done them all terribly (except Barb Assault) and failed to achieve their goals. Giant Mole: Still worthless for higher levels or lower levels to do - and thus no one really does it. TWW God Wars: Has the same drop rate for rare God Wars items as their normal counterpart (a really stupid move), and much harder - so literally no one does them. Also, the Soul Stones are useless as well Vorago: Done only for the title - the increased effort really isn't worth it at all aside from the title - so most people who have the levels don't do hard mode. Barb Assault: Good Rework, good rewards, yet for some reason, according to latest polls, players don't seem to think so. The lobby freeze glitch in the last week since Barb Assault probably has turned off a lot of players.

And the lobby freezes are back for me. :(

The zoomed out camera glitch is linked to the screen freezes, perhaps. I always seemed to be getting them together.

After having horrible lobby freezes for quite a few days last week and yesterday (so much so that I couldn't even do Barb Assault properly), I haven't had any today. Weird. I did update some drivers but that was about it.

I have Windows 8 and 8 GB RAM. I wonder what I should do. :(

Any word on Jagex fixing the lobby freezes/client freezes that have been affecting thousands of players since Barb Assault update?

No thanks. Why is everyone so concerned about reviving the old Runecrafting? It was a boring and tedious skill that deserved to die. I very much prefer the current system in which we don't use as much Runes with abilities (except for specialized things like Abyss training/Legacy) - now we can spend our times doing more fun things instead of running to altars like drones all day long. That old system is obsolete and it shouldn't come back. There's a reason why people dreaded Runecrafting and many tried to train it by Tears of Guthix/Penguins alone. That was also one of the problems with the old system: how expensive mage was - this effectively made it impractical to use for normal training or most things, except for highly specialized niche purposes (bursting rock lobsters/Castle Wars/fun PVP/some bosses etc.). That's one of the best things that EoC ever did - it made it so mage was actually a viable combat style along melee and range. Making runes more valuable is a regressive step that would completely undo that.

Take me with you!!No noobs allowed, sorry. Then why are you allowed to go? You got me. ;)

Take me with you!! No noobs allowed, sorry.

I have been skipping Vorago tasks up till now because although I have a very good permanent Rago team of close friends, we are sort of on hiatus for now (and I don't like suffering forumers). But now that I am done almost all of the requirements on the Final Boss title except for Rago/Kiln/Rots, I decided I may as well start working on Rago (and daily Rago tasks) even if my team isn't back yet. I asked one of my active teammates to get me into one of his temporary/backup teams, and he did. Apparently that backup team is also running a completely free leech/PVM help thread/service, with an FC to help people leech and help them through solo bosses even, and stuff of that sort. I was only there for the task, but before I knew it, I was on the teamspeak and the host requested I help people on teamspeak, walk them through it (the leeches) - even though most of them had never even read a Vorago guide, and were relying on my instructions only to survive. And just like that, I was giving commands and helping people in-game (by watching them, giving food/healing specials) who had never done Vorago survive the one kill for their Reaper requirement. I helped 3 people with that requirement (and one also wanted to maul). I was even given a Bronze star in the FC for helping the people. I think we did 6 attempts today, and only 1 attempt failed. There was even a feedback section where the people were encouraged to post after they got their kills. And it was a very relaxed atmosphere. No raging, patience, no elitism, almost anyone will be accepted, and so on. So it really isn't impossible or anything like that. There are plenty of people willing to teach and help others out, for free. There really is no excuse.